Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply |
one of us |
There have been reports on this forum of elephant cull hunts in Zim conducted in and around National Parks. These are characterized by low prices and plural harvests. There have also been warnings that these hunts are illegal, or non-existent, as well as posts verifying the practice. Due to "abuses by operators", these cull hunts in Zim have been suspended. It has come to the attention of CITES officials that a bull with tusks over 3m long, weighing 107 and 126lbs was shot in Hwange park under the guise of a cull hunt, by an operator from Bulawayo. There is now an investigation under way. Until this has been concluded, there will be no more hunts of this particular kind in Zim. The PAC hunts and Chirara management hunts offered by us are not affected. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | ||
|
One of Us |
OK, what idiot PH would do this? Without knowing the circumstances (and maybe I am jumping to conclusions) I wish someone would post his name so everyone knows not to book with him in the future. The worst part of it is that there is no way in hell the client is getting those tusks out of there without paying someone a HUGE chunk of change. tendrams | |||
|
One of Us |
Nothing taken on those hunts is exportable. | |||
|
one of us |
| |||
|
One of Us |
Those tusks have seen some serious "story growth". A 92lb ele was shot in december as a "ration" hunt and a 75lb/42lb one shot in Hwange as a "management non trophy ele" Both still totally unacceptable. Have the names of the two PH's but until I am sure enough of the facts to confront them in the supermarket, I'll hold on the "name and shame". | |||
|
One of Us |
Is there any reason to go to a supermarket in Harare these days? | |||
|
One of Us |
It would be a victory for all hunters if these scum were exposed and stripped of their rights to hunt Zimbabwe. If I find out who they are, I shall start a fistfight in the supermarket, win or lose. I hope, when the time comes, the relevant authorities initiate a serious investigation into the underhand dealings that have taken place in the hunting industry of late. Those responsible should be publicly exposed and punished accordingly. They are not hunters and have no right to call themselves hunters. There are still some guys trying to do things properly, and their standing and the standing of the Zim hunting industry takes a serious pounding from the actions of these criminals. Trophy hunting in Hwange National Park? Have some respect, for God's sake. Great men are spinning in their graves right now. David | |||
|
One of Us |
I saw quite a bit of food in the stores I went to not far from Harare. App $1 for a 1Lt Coke, not bad price, but some things where way over priced. I also heard about the 120lbs bull shot in Wankie. Also heard about a Bull found dead with one tusk over 100lbs in Mana Pools Nat Park. | |||
|
One of Us |
As someone who has been to hwange many many times i would not want to hunt there its to easy but as i have also seen a different part of human nature.You will be amazed at the amount of people in Zimbabwe that rape the sitaution to enrich themselves not only in the hunting industry i hope they can live with themselves in the future there is going to be some bad karma coming back around for some people. | |||
|
One of Us |
maybe they could put them in a really long, skinny suitcase and bring them home that way Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
|
One of Us |
The big ele in Hwange was Tim Shultz (Africa Dream Safaris). His Appie M. Sibanda had it in his log book on the proficiency as one of the hunts he had accompanied (along with photo's!!!) but it has taken some time to confirm this hunt did actually take place inside the park. | |||
|
One of Us |
I am not surprised it is Tim Schultz and African Nightmare Safaris. If you go to 24 hour Campfire(look for 24hour campfire hunt) you will see a thread where hunters went this year to hunt elephant and some hunted illegal elephants(according to the hunter after he shot his elephant), some did not have permits in those areas, and some were kicked out of bed in the middle on the night. I hunted with Tim's outfit 2 years ago, and would never hunt with them again. I did get offered 2 free days of hunting if I came back. I did not hunt elephant. | |||
|
One of Us |
Tim might not be visiting Busters for a while. | |||
|
One of Us |
Tim Shultz has been up to no good, there have been unconfirmed reports of him hunting illegally and trying to get a foot hold into Sengwe Hunting area South of Gonarezhou... Also a reputable cameraman from Zim who has done quite a lot of work with National Geographic this week on a lion hunt was punting hunting ele in Hwange to a Russian client... do not want to mention name here... THIS SHIT HAS TO BE PROPERLY CONTROLLED | |||
|
One of Us |
Yeah, and not only him. Hopefully the other names will also come out of the woodwork soon. Dave | |||
|
One of Us |
I had the misfortune of being on one of Schultz' elephant hunts that ended up in a national park. Hopefully another AR member that was on that hunt will join in with pictures of his bull, which nobody would describe as a non-trophy. In related news, whoever bought Schultz' SCI auction hunt for lion might want some pictures of Schultz' caged lions to go with their trophy.Now, I'm not saying they are the right lion, but since I also have it on good authority that he has no lion quota, they might be good enough. Did I mention I'm really pissed off? | |||
|
new member |
As a matter of interest, I think an apology is due as the elephant that you are all referring to was shot with a National Parks allocated professional hunter, not Tim Schultz. Schultz's appie was on the hunt and accompanied this other professional hunter. Investigations are under way to correct these false allegations as well as legal action for damages caused. I believe that it would be wise in future for people to get all the correct facts before publishing incorrect information that could cause some very serious embarrassment when it has to be retracted. Once again, trial by internet!! | |||
|
One of Us |
Matswani, How about the group on 24HR that hunted with Tim this year with no legal license to hunt elephants or the member here who is looking into his hunt for elephant that may have been shot illegally. You need to check all of your facts. or talk to the many people who have had problems on thier hunts with him. | |||
|
new member |
I have been in contact with National Parks of Zimbabwe and have a reliable source who has confirmed that there were permits in place, an investigation has been done with the 24hour campfire hunt you refer to and there was nothing illegal about it. From what I understand as I have been investigating these unfortunate incidents that it is a small % of Schultz's clients who are unhappy. Maybe Schultz just took on too much. I'm not making excuses for the guy but accusing him of illegal undertakings without proof seems a bit unjust. | |||
|
One of Us |
Matswani If your local police chief gives your 12 year old son a drivers license - do that make it legal for him to drive on the roads if the legal minimum age is 16? The parks and wildlife act prohibits any foreign national from shooting any animal within a national park under any circumstances other than self defence. The act has not been amended. The two senior parks officers responsible for the permits - Tapera (Stix) Chimuti - Director Scientific services and Anne Mandaza - Director operations have both lost their jobs over this. Zimbabwe is a land where the "law" is very selectively applied. In terms of the act, it is a criminal offence to shoot game on private land without a permit from the "appropriate Authority" - ie the holder of the title deeds. National Parks has been issuing hunting quota's for all the occupied game ranches - particularly in the Gwaai area. These are actually counter signed by the minister of Environment and Tourism. These permits have no legal basis- and are not recognised as valid by either the USA or the EU. Records are being kept of these activities as far as is possible and one day- hopefully soon- some retribution can take place. | |||
|
One of Us |
The above is correct. Those operators hunting on occupied farms without the owners permission are simply poaching. nothing more- nothing less. And, not only are they stealing, they are helping perpetuate the regime. Sadly many involved in this practice are men I used to call friends. | |||
|
new member |
Don Heath and Ganyana You have named one person, what about the rest don't you think that everyone has a right to know who these other outfitters are? I know from a reliable source in Zimbabwe that a number of well known operators / outfitters and professional hunters have been issued these permits and in quantities of up to 10 and possibly more, foreign nationals are shooting these elephant not local Zimbabweans! I believe from what you are saying that you don't believe that your authorities in National Parks of Zimbabwe are issuing legal permits, I wonder what they think of that? | |||
|
One of Us |
I am perplexed. We have definite evidence that there is an impending or existing disaster because of lack of population control/culling of elephants in the Parks https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/185102769 But when someone in the government tries to get things done to help remedy the problem, they are attacked and fired from their jobs? Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
One of Us |
Matswani - 1) I have not named anybody...You are correct in stating that there have ben over a dozen firms identified so far taking part in the "management hunts" in the national parks and many more on the occupied farms. 2) It is a matter of public record that I chalenged the Parks Director General - Morris Mutsambiwa, that the hunts were illegal in terms of the act. Morris and I are actually fairly good friends. He was Snr Ecologist Aquatic, whilst I had the office opposite him as Snr Ecologist Utilisation - you cannot work along side a man for 4 years without getting to know him quite well 3) Morris side stepped the issue refering the matter to the minister. He knows what the Law says, but political decisions over rule the law locally. He is in the very awkard possition of having to try and do what is best for both parks and wild life whilst not compromising himself. 4) Those members of AR who have been on such hunts must satisfy themselves that they are happy with their efforts in the funding of ZANU -PF - the organisation that has been, after all, the primary benefficiary of all money paid for these hunts. 5) For international Hunters, what is "acceptable" practice in Zimbabwe, may not be in compliance with their own countries laws. A quick Phone call to the US embassy in Harare (if you are a US citizen) will confirm that these hunts are regarded as illegal by the US government. | |||
|
one of us |
Matswani, Welcome to the forum. As a fairly new visitor, you may not be aware that Ganyana and Don know more about, and are more involved in the Zimbabwe hunting industry than pretty much anyone. - Both are also as straight as die and I'm sure that I won't be the only member here to tell you that if they tell you something, you can take it to bank. If they're not naming certain names at this point, you can bet your life, wife and house on the fact that they have a very good reason. My advice would be to give 'em time, and I'm sure that when they have their ducks in a row, they'll do the appropriate thing. | |||
|
One of Us |
Matswari Ditto what Steve said.... you cant fart against thunder... This one should be good, there are a good number of outfits that are going to get their fat fingers burned when this one goes up in flames. | |||
|
new member |
Don Heath I have hunted in Zimbabwe for a number of years and have hunted with a number of different outfits and hunters, what I am aware of is that the Government (Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe) takes from 25-45% (I know this varies)of all monies received from hunts conducted in Zimbabwe, does this not make every operator and client supporters of ZANU-PF as you put it? At one stage earlier this year 45% of all revenue received from a single hunt went to Government so everyone conducting hunts in Zimbabwe and declaring their funds (which is anyone who wanted to export our trophies) is supporting ZANU-PF. So shouldn't all operators / outfitters be deemed illegal? Shouldn't all hunts be stopped? I understand that National Parks of Zimbabwe are receiving fuel and equipment to keep operational from the elephant hunts that have been taking place under this "management program" from Operators / outfitters as they cannot keep afloat in the ever changing climate in Zimbabwe (I give them a lot of credit for even attempting to keep things going in what I understand to be a very harsh and unforgiving economy). Is not the elephant population in Zimbabwe causing a lot of environmental damage? | |||
|
One of Us |
Mr Matswani, There is a vast difference between paying fees you are obliged to pay by law and openly dancing with the devil. I hope that justice is done some day. Those who have dodgy political partners, overshoot quotas, shoot in parks and occupied land etc need to be brought to book and stripped of their right to hunt this country. David | |||
|
one of us |
I'd also like to add that (IMO) those hunters who compound the crime by knowingly hunting areas (esp occupied lands) such as David has just mentioned, deserve to be strung up for Leopard bait. | |||
|
One of Us |
I am not sure what you mean by a small percentage. All I can tell you, that of the 7 people that I hunted with or who called me about Tim Schultz African Nightmare Safaris. All had problems. Ages range for late 60's to mid 30's. From multi-millionaires to blue collar workers. From Detroit to Colorado to Ontario. I find it hard to believe with this wide range of demographics and hunting experiences that the only thing everyone has in common, is very bad experiences with Tim Schultz. 7 for 7 is not a low percentage. I hope when you hunted with him you had better luck. | |||
|
One of Us |
Here's a Hwange cull elephant taken through Schultz.The Warden was present. | |||
|
One of Us |
SGraves et al There is a dire need for elephant population management - no question about that but... 1) It must be done legally! 2) It must be done according to approved scientific practice -ie you should be shooting cows and calves, not bulls- never bulls, unless they are with the herd being exterminated 3) you must wipe out the entire herd. The problem with these hunts is the way in which they have been conducted- Parks denied to the association- in writing, that any of these hunts were taking place- after London Hunter had been on one with Numzaan safaris and it posted on AR- The minister in charge and parks got quite a fright when confronted with this. Only after South African operators had already been hunting in the park, did a veriety of local operators get in on the act- and then parks had the cheek to try calling the hunts "experimental". Why hide it- why lie to the association? Who was bribed? (who lost their jobs?). There are no easy answers to culling. Parks have one officer left - Ray Makwehe who is competant and qualified to lead a cull - in the old days you had tto have shot over 500 ele before you were alowed to conduct a mini cull or be one of the three "cullers" (as oposed to flankers) on a big cull. Ray was the first black officer to conduct his own cull. Ray could co-ordinate it and run it , but would need experienced back up. The assocaition has 600 aprentice hunters and guides who are all needing elephant experience...if you are going to accept botched jobs, the appioes can do it- and gladly pay for the privaledge. Regionally, both Namibia and South Africa have approached us re training of hunters on dangerous game. It would be streatching the letter but not the spirit of the act to bring them on board. Lastly- take the matter to parliment and ammend the act if you wish to allow foreign nationals to hunt or participate in culls within a national park (it would never get through parliment, and never pass CITES secretariat approval either... but that is by the by. PS- proper elephant culling is dangerous, dirty work. Shooting calves that are snuggling up to their mothers and then rushing over to you for a cuddle is more than I could take. I was glad to be able to leave that to harder men than I (culling buff was a different story, and the calves never affected me the way ele calves did)- Ele are just too special. | |||
|
One of Us |
case could be made for defamation and slander. If you were to check parks registry on hunters (I have), you would find that Schultz has conducted some 160 hunts in the past three years. So you are actually a very small percentage of his registry. I would think Schultz having taken on these hunts on short notice from your agent without dates and deposits being posted well in advance, speaks more to his professionalism than to your complaint. And that seems to come down to having moved camp on short notice. After a careful review of your comments, as the trophies in question were taken (apparently, at least from early entries), this sounds like a problem with your agent and perhaps false promises. Grown-ups discuss these things with the parties in question in person. Grown-ups don't sit in the diaspora in their underwear pounding away under anonymous names to uninterested parties. Grown-ups, well.... they act like grown-ups. Matswani's comments in regards to yours seem far more relevant to me. Perhaps you should personally get with Zim parks and sort your 'facts' before spouting off ad infinitum. Yours- Regards- alan kelly kelly's africa Pvt Ltd www.kellysafrica.com Alan, I have hunted with Tim's company and my problems had nothing to do with my booking agent. He was the best part of the trip. My father and I were both offered 2 days free hunt and animals if we came back. Due to all the problems with our hunt. Defamation and slander, I laugh. I have the free hunt offer in writing. I am not hiding behind anything. My hunt was booked months in advance, no PH's for a few days, wrong camps per TIM, etc, etc. I put this in the open so we could discuss like grown ups. I would be willing to discuss with you in person, I make a couple trips a year to Summit County for skiing. I am hiding nothing. When I was called by hunters who were thinking of booking with Tim, I gave honest answers. The ones that still booked, called me when they got back and said I was right on. Have a nice day. | |||
|
One of Us |
160 hunts in the last three years....? But Tim only got his PH license 2 years ago... My Proficiency note book tells me up until then he was working for Rebeca Steyn and Wayne Jardine...and apprenticed under Wayne...and that Don Heath and Isaac Nyamatora were his examiners. | |||
|
One of Us |
Alan Kelly wants to speak of Schlutzs professionalism? Tim got my elephant permit on the 10th day of a 10 day hunt. There is plenty of reason to believe that even then the permit wasn't legal.That practically reeks professionalism.. I'm guessing alan kelly is the "main" booking agent that Tim and company alluded to, but wouldn't name when I asked.Why would a company not want their clients to know the name of their own booking agent? Scared of what they might hear? Schultz is doing a good job of defaming himself | |||
|
One of Us |
If you were to check parks registry on hunters (I have), you would find that Schultz has conducted some 160 hunts in the past three years. So you are actually a very small percentage of his registry. Alan, So you are saying Tim has done 53 hunts per year for the last 3 years? Average hunt 10 days, so he hunts 533 days per year. Wow, you are definitely booking hunts for the right guy. Especially, since he only got his PH license 2 years ago. | |||
|
one of us |
If we all go quiet at the same time and listen very carefully, I wonder if we'll hear an axe being ground somewhere. Sorry guys, my English sense of humour just couldn't resist taking the piss a little. | |||
|
One of Us |
If we all go quiet at the same time and listen very carefully, I wonder if we'll hear an axe being ground somewhere. Shakari, I don't know if this was meant for me or not. But I have no axe to grind. Here is my post of my hunt with Tim Schultz. Posted 07 August 2007 03:01 Hide Post Just got back a few weeks ago from ZIM. Hunted with African Dream Safaris. Only met Tim once for about 5 mins. I shot a sable, eland, bushbuck, cape buffalo, and some misc. animals. PM if you need details on Tim or the hunt. No axe here, I did get several PM's and responded accordingly. When Alan sends me a message about me sitting around in my underwear, and I am afraid to show. Then I will let the truth be told. I sure would not want to book a hunt with Alan if that is the way he behaves. But, to each his own. Seems like a great booking agent booking for a wonderful PH. | |||
|
one of us |
Motorcity, No bwana, it wasn't aimed at you in any way.......... It was however meant to inject an element of humour or indeed, humor. More seriously, as I said earlier, "Ganyana and Don know more about, and are more involved in the Zimbabwe hunting industry than pretty much anyone. - Both are also as straight as die and I'm sure that I won't be the only member here to tell you that if they tell you something, you can take it to bank. If they're not naming certain names at this point, you can bet your life, wife and house on the fact that they have a very good reason. My advice would be to give 'em time, and I'm sure that when they have their ducks in a row, they'll do the appropriate thing". | |||
|
One of Us |
That pretty much says it all... Brian "If you can't go all out, don't go..." | |||
|
Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia