quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Steve: I am a member of SCI but neither a basher nor a cheerleader. I have one animal in the "book" because my PH asked me to enter it. How do you suggest I truly get the facts and then if appropriate act upon them? I don't think cancelling my membership is an answer. I don't think sitting on the sidelines and complaining works. What form of action do you think should be taken?
As a US citizen I don't like the IRS issue, the NSA issue, the healthcare issue and many more. How as a citizen do I ever get the truth? I have written my representatives and get a biased "fog" depending on their party affiliation.
I watched Stu Taylor get wronged by uninformed posts and want to be informed on this issue. Tell me how!
Trying to topple SCI does not seem productive. It is vindictive but not productive.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Why don't 1,000 people sign the petition and get a FULL investigation and just clean up the crap? is it that difficult.

It is not like Democrats vesus republicans and all the hate.

I bet that the SCI top brass want a way out of this situation. I bet the IRS will now have its sights on all these guys for tax evasion on all the fat they skimmed off.

If you really want SCI to do well and get back to its roots, this is what I would do!

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Why don't 1,000 people sign the petition and get a FULL investigation and just clean up the crap? is it that difficult.

It is not like Democrats vesus republicans and all the hate.

I bet that the SCI top brass want a way out of this situation. I bet the IRS will now have its sights on all these guys for tax evasion on all the fat they skimmed off.

If you really want SCI to do well and get back to its roots, this is what I would do!

Sure, I would be more than happy to sign a petition if it would shine a light on this crap. Trouble is I think it would be like our Attorney General Eric Holder asking the Justice Dept which he oversees to investigate himself. Do you really think these weasels would be held accountable by the Executive Committee who are themselves?

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
the consensus among SCI supporters here is that things are fine at the local( chapter) level, so they will press on with business as usual as they have NO say in what goes on in AZ anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
The leadership (or lack thereof) and the members are the problem at SCI.

The core issue is this "club" is not a conservation organization. It is a club set up to award itself for "deeds done" by asking the members to pay for "participation trophies" that they give themselves for shooting something.

I find the entire basis for the club repugnant. The disservice done to hunters is -
1. Creating an environment where "biggest, longest and best" get to buy themselves a nice prize.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
The only looser in the end here is hunting.

The anti hunters have for a long time made it clear the only way to destroy the sport of hunting is from within , our walls are crumbling and our core is being tested.

Make no mistake not many on this forum or elsewhere can equal my challanging of SCI on some of their problem areas and children, some may recall on one of the threads I and other put it to one of the SCI messengers to go back and get some answers the poor bloke thought it was going to be straight forward , only never to be seen again, his vision was cleared when he went looking for answers.

However any damage we or anybody else does to SCI - is damage to hunting. You remove cancer without cutting of the head.

Not for one minute do I suggest letting this go , but for heavens sake people , do you not think that every anti hunting organization has not gotten their hands on this and is showing this as evidence against HUNTERS , not SCI alone , they paint us all with the same brush.

Every anti hunting organization will use this as evidence against HUNTERS , not only SCI , yes these people have tarnished our sport , yes its unacceptable , but hell man , be the adult , take this out of the public forum , out of the fence sitting public's eye.

Every one of us who fight the daily battle against the anti hunters have just been sent 1 million miles backwards.

yes the good side is for the anti hunters to see us take up arms against the corupt members, this is good but what do they realy take from this - our fight to clean out the bad apples or that the biggest representative of our sport is dirty.

As we head to Las Vegas , we can only hope that the damage done is not irepairable.
I say this as someone who is disilusioned with having donated over $150 000-00 to SCI, and to what they have become.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The following is from the website of IDA International (In Defense of Animals). Give this awards issue a lot more thought . It is a major problem IMHO.

------------------------------------------------

The Safari Club International (SCI) – the most ruthless trophy hunting organization
Clearly leading the list of voracious hunting clubs with an appalling callousness towards wild animals worldwide, is the Safari Club International (SCI), a hunting advocacy group that promotes competitive trophy hunting throughout the world, even of rare species, and not shying away from canned hunts, through an elaborate awards program. The SCI continues to create and feed a culture glamorizing death and violence globally, across political lines, international borders, and against wildlife and even people. Fortunes are made on the back of millions of animals, whose lives are taken by trophy hunters for the sake of killing in an endless spiral of competition. Money is no object in the face of bragging rights for killing the biggest and the best of all species. SCI profits from the beginning to the end: from outfitting hunts to charging outlandish prices to enter its many circles of competition.

Most people would be shocked to learn about the length these wildlife killers go to legally (and illegally) murder the largest, most beautiful and “exotic’ animals – the rarer the animal, the better. And to this end, the SCI even supports canned hunts. In fact, SCI, among others, challenged regulations to allow hunting of endangered African antelope species at fenced “game” ranches in Texas and Florida. Exerting their influence on the USFWS, the SCI argued that captive breeding was necessary for the survival and rescue of the species in the wild, and that “Sport hunting of surplus, captive-bred animals generates revenue that supports these captive-breeding operations and may relieve hunting pressure on wild populations. In the case of black rhino, 83% of those countries represented at the 2004 CITES meeting approved sport hunting of the species in limited numbers.

With no remorse for brutally taking the lives of innocent wild animals already struggling to survive in human-dominated landscapes, members of SCI spend their wealth on killing-spree trips into remote areas and foreign countries to fulfill their lust to kill the largest animals, the most exotic animals and rack up SCI awards. Underlying these actions are futile efforts to transcend weak character, arrested emotional development, narcissism, sexual perversion, anger and finally, a misguided attempt to overcome their own disconnect to nature.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt

None of my comments or questions have been at all unreasonable in any way....... Sometimes scathing, always accurate & to the point but not at all unreasonable.

You refusal to answer the questions & your attempt to change the subject with such a childish response that is nothing less than an 'I'm not talking to you any more' absolutely proves you are exactly what I said when I called you a cheerleader!

What's your next response going to be....... are you going to threaten to bash me up in the playground?

I'd respect an honest reply to my questions but such childish hysterics just make you appear somewhat less than adult.

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt

None of my comments or questions have been at all unreasonable in any way....... Sometimes scathing, always accurate & to the point but not at all unreasonable.

You refusal to answer the questions & your attempt to change the subject with such a childish response that is nothing less than an 'I'm not talking to you any more' absolutely proves you are exactly what I said when I called you a cheerleader!

What's your next response going to be....... are you going to threaten to bash me up in the playground?

I'd respect an honest reply to my questions but such childish hysterics just make you appear somewhat less than adult.

Curious, are you a member of SCI?

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The following is from the website of IDA International (In Defense of Animals). Give this awards issue a lot more thought . It is a major problem IMHO.

------------------------------------------------

The Safari Club International (SCI) – the most ruthless trophy hunting organization
Clearly leading the list of voracious hunting clubs with an appalling callousness towards wild animals worldwide, is the Safari Club International (SCI), a hunting advocacy group that promotes competitive trophy hunting throughout the world, even of rare species, and not shying away from canned hunts, through an elaborate awards program. The SCI continues to create and feed a culture glamorizing death and violence globally, across political lines, international borders, and against wildlife and even people. Fortunes are made on the back of millions of animals, whose lives are taken by trophy hunters for the sake of killing in an endless spiral of competition. Money is no object in the face of bragging rights for killing the biggest and the best of all species. SCI profits from the beginning to the end: from outfitting hunts to charging outlandish prices to enter its many circles of competition.

Most people would be shocked to learn about the length these wildlife killers go to legally (and illegally) murder the largest, most beautiful and “exotic’ animals – the rarer the animal, the better. And to this end, the SCI even supports canned hunts. In fact, SCI, among others, challenged regulations to allow hunting of endangered African antelope species at fenced “game” ranches in Texas and Florida. Exerting their influence on the USFWS, the SCI argued that captive breeding was necessary for the survival and rescue of the species in the wild, and that “Sport hunting of surplus, captive-bred animals generates revenue that supports these captive-breeding operations and may relieve hunting pressure on wild populations. In the case of black rhino, 83% of those countries represented at the 2004 CITES meeting approved sport hunting of the species in limited numbers.

With no remorse for brutally taking the lives of innocent wild animals already struggling to survive in human-dominated landscapes, members of SCI spend their wealth on killing-spree trips into remote areas and foreign countries to fulfill their lust to kill the largest animals, the most exotic animals and rack up SCI awards. Underlying these actions are futile efforts to transcend weak character, arrested emotional development, narcissism, sexual perversion, anger and finally, a misguided attempt to overcome their own disconnect to nature.

"More thought".? are we now to hunt under the guidance of IDA and PETA? Are we to judge trophy hunting by their ideas? And to judge SCI by their anti hunting diatribe. I don't think so and don't believe their propaganda has any place in the issues presented here.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Watching the edited videos is bad enough. Reading the transcript is worse.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:


"More thought".? are we now to hunt under the guidance of IDA and PETA? Are we to judge trophy hunting by their ideas? And to judge SCI by their anti hunting diatribe. I don't think so and don't believe their propaganda has any place in the issues presented here.

They aren't the only one using this against us. I know of certain booking agents and PH's that had a conversation with the SCI president this past week about the problems they think the awards cause.

quote:

Originally posted by joester:
LJS-Yes I am an SCI as well as local chapter member. I have often wondered if local chapters are monitored for transparency & honest operations, and, if so, by whom?

quote:

Originally posted by joester:
I am hoping that Local Chapters also will be investigated re: cronyism, favoritism and overall shady dealings. IMHO most locals are likely solid & run with integrity, but what about the local chapters that may be mirroring some of the alleged issues taking place on the National level?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I reckon Fujo has it right but will add that there MIGHT (note the big MIGHT) be another part to this that so far hasn't been addressed which is IF (again, note the big IF) the guys at the top have been copping back hander hunts or other benefits, who has been giving them, why and what etc?

Then again, perhaps they were nothing more than voluntary donations given by the donator out of the goodness of his heart!

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Not shocked at all.

Rather pathetic really.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I reckon Fujo has it right but will add that there MIGHT (note the big MIGHT) be another part to this that so far hasn't been addressed which is IF (again, note the big IF) the guys at the top have been copping back hander hunts or other benefits, who has been giving them, why and what etc?

Then again, perhaps they were nothing more than voluntary donations given by the donator out of the goodness of his heart!

That brings to mind the PH of The Year recipients!

How many of them turned out to be bloody crooks?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Frankly boys, you really want to hand out an award to the "best Hunter" of the year - give it to the guides/outfitters who are the ones truly responsible for these clowns achieving success in the hunting field. Cause frankly, over the past 22 yrs - I have personally guided some pretty high-profile "clients", and there ability to do much more than play - "follow the leader", is non-existent. I lost count of how many of them shocked me, with their complete lack of hunting skill/ability/knowledge. Left to their own accord, I'm certain many of them would have killed nothing - and honestly, just getting back to the truck would have been a real accomplishment.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Early Sunday morning here in Denver, and I had nothing better to do as I wait for my beloved Denver Broncos to win their 3rd Super Bowl ring later today!! So, like many of you - I decided to watch the first two videos posted. Roughly 25 minutes of my life, that unfortunately I will never get back!!!!! Watching, and reading this thread - brings the following points to mind.

1. This whole SCI/WEATHERBY/HUNTING AWARDS/INNER CIRCLE/3RD LEVEL DIAMOND crap, just cause you got one more Zing Zang, from Bing Bang than did the other guy - BS as a whole, is quite frankly the most pathetic thing I have ever seen. A bunch of grown men, having a "weiner" measuring contest - over who's shot what, who's is bigger, who's is better, what law do I have to break to get it done, for some damn award they so desperately want/need. GOOD HEAVENS, REALLY??

When really what you have here, is nothing more than a desperate need for acceptance and recognition - by a bunch of guys and gals, that (other than financial success) have never accomplished anything in life, period! They are the guys that could never make the varsity football team, the guys that could never hit a baseball, the guys that constantly got picked last for the dodge ball game, and unfortunately never left with hot girl!! So now, they find themselves on some desperate search to make up for lost time - and to gain a sense of accomplishment, that has evaded them their whole lives. Why, mid-life crisis I guess???

Frankly boys, you really want to hand out an award to the "best Hunter" of the year - give it to the guides/outfitters who are the ones truly responsible for these clowns achieving success in the hunting field. Cause frankly, over the past 22 yrs - I have personally guided some pretty high-profile "clients", and there ability to do much more than play - "follow the leader", is non-existent. I lost count of how many of them shocked me, with their complete lack of hunting skill/ability/knowledge. Left to their own accord, I'm certain many of them would have killed nothing - and honestly, just getting back to the truck would have been a real accomplishment.

2. Lane Easter in an earlier post made a great point, IMO. Like it or not like it, agree with it or not agree with it - the LCTF pushed hard for DSC and SCI to adopt its "Huntable Lion Definition". The night before DSC / January 2013, I personally got on the phone/text with DSC's hierarchy, convinced them a meeting was greatly needed in the face of the potential Lion up-listing, and by the very next morning 15 of us were gathered around a table discussing the issue. Within 2 weeks, DSC had adopted the definition - with very little push-back. A real step in the right direction for Lion Conservation. Evident by all the outfitters/PH's and additional entities that have since adopted the definition as well.

Now, in the meantime - we tried to get SCI to do the same. Frankly, we could hardly get them to listen - and why you ask? Cause who the hell is Aaron Neilson, Dr. Lane Easter, Mr. George Hartley, etc?? We're not big-wigs, we're not Weatherby winners, Conklin winners, blah, blah, blah. We were nobody's, and they didn't even give us the time of day. In fact, an SCI rep did speak with me via telephone from D.C., and promised me to set a phone conference call with us, after the meeting between SCI/Dr. Craig Packer. Surprisingly enough, I never heard from her again????

Now, here we are a full year later - can anyone tell me what position/statement or definition the world's leading "CONSERVATION ORGANIZATION", SCI that is - has taken or put forth in regards to the African Lion??? To my knowledge, they did then - and still, have taken NO POSITION on the matter. Nothing, zero, notta!!!!! Really, nothing??? Not a definition of their own, not even a simple statement that says - "we support sustainable, conservation minded, conservative lion hunting".

In addition, does everyone remember SCI's call to arms at last year's annual convention - in which they say they raised $1,000,000.00 for lion conservation??? I don't doubt they raised the money, but I have gathered from some pretty reliable sources - that the vast majority of that money has yet to be put to use, in the name of Lion Conservation? Are you kidding me, a year later - and SCI has still not put every dime of that money to use in the name of conserving the Lion?? And since then, have you really even heard much about the whole issue from them? Cause as I recall, it was awfully pressing at last year's convention - but the urgency sure seemed to die a quick/quiet death immediately following the convention, and the raising of the money of course!!!!!!!

Folks, everyone knows my issue is the Lion - but that's not really my point here. My point is, are those in charge of SCI - really the conservators of Wildlife that they claim? Or is it really just the "Good Ole Boys Club", where admission to the top is based on your financial statement - that then allows you to be handheld around the world in search of the next great "Blue Speckled, long haired, Asian gazelle", that none one else has even heard of??? Cause honestly, if the Conservation/Hunting Issue that has been facing the African Lion over the past 12 months is not pressing enough for SCI to take a position, and put forth some guidelines to its membership - then what is??

I don't see SCI as the leading conservation group in the hunting world, not even close! That title belongs solely and squarely to the "Dallas Safari Club". I see SCI as I see these videos/transcripts. A bunch of grown men - acting like children, who are more concerned with their egos, awards and self-proclaimed - greatness, than doing what's right for the hunter, the wildlife, and our beloved heritage.

They should ALL be ashamed of themselves, and every single one of them should be replaced immediately!!!!!!

quote:

In addition, does everyone remember SCI's call to arms at last year's annual convention - in which they say they raised $1,000,000.00 for lion conservation??? I don't doubt they raised the money, but I have gathered from some pretty reliable sources - that the vast majority of that money has yet to be put to use, in the name of Lion Conservation? Are you kidding me, a year later - and SCI has still not put every dime of that money to use in the name of conserving the Lion?? And since then, have you really even heard much about the whole issue from them? Cause as I recall, it was awfully pressing at last year's convention - but the urgency sure seemed to die a quick/quiet death immediately following the convention, and the raising of the money of course!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

In addition, does everyone remember SCI's call to arms at last year's annual convention - in which they say they raised $1,000,000.00 for lion conservation??? I don't doubt they raised the money, but I have gathered from some pretty reliable sources - that the vast majority of that money has yet to be put to use, in the name of Lion Conservation? Are you kidding me, a year later - and SCI has still not put every dime of that money to use in the name of conserving the Lion?? And since then, have you really even heard much about the whole issue from them? Cause as I recall, it was awfully pressing at last year's convention - but the urgency sure seemed to die a quick/quiet death immediately following the convention, and the raising of the money of course!!!!!!!

Aaron:

Why this money was never utilized towards the Lion Conservation Project does indeed raise questions:

1. Does SCI know something about the up-listing of the Lion that others don't - hence their reason for miming the 3 monkeys?

2. Is it possible that they might have access to inside and secretively guarded knowledge on this issue and as a result have purposely reneged on the disbursement of the funds to their intended purpose?

It just doesn't make sense that in one instance they lobbied valiantly in the raising of funds for a very valid project, only to submerge themselves without the trace of a bubble once a substantial amount had been secured; $1M is no small change for any project!

One also wonders how the selfless donors must be feeling, on how or where their contribution ended up - if it didn't go to the Lion cause then where and if it hasn't gone anywhere other than languish in the SCI account, it would have been better off in the pockets of those who donated to be used in other fields.

Seeing this money was not utilized should it not have been refunded or at least announce SCI's intentions of refunding its rightful owners - just for the sake of transparency of course?