The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Reform SCI Petition - From Dr. Larry Rudolph.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Apparently no one mentioned this to the NSA  The ONLY way to kill this before it gets out of hand is to get rid of ALL the present SCI bigwigs, and start a new process - where the members wishes ARE taken into consideration, and actions ARE taken IMMEDIATELY to rectify anything that might come into question. Of course, that is NOT going to happen. We might have an "independent" inquiry, just like the government does, and get only the answer THEY decide we should get. SCI should have never, ever, got themselves so deep into this bloody shit, and behaved like almighty god whenever anyone questioned their actions. | |||
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This is definitely one of your top ten stupid posts. Maybe you could tell everyone again about your experience in Africa, or with SCI, or with Obama? Surely you have some and are not just another internet genius.... ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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well, i just spent over an hour reading the transcript of the hidden camera meeting. the dirty back room dealing was so bad, i MUST go take a shower. if you haven't read the transcript yet, put on a raincoat- then get an insider's view of what SCI is really all about....expense accounts for the president of $200K?? really???alleged prostitution rings? free hotel rooms for Romanian girlfriends in Reno? free hunts? being allowed to stay in the club after admitting to killing game from a chopper, as long as you delete your entries from the record book? this whole sordid mess beggars belief... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Alleged prostitution rings? I guess if you repeat nonsense someone might believe you. Chinese whispers can become truth right here on AR. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Larry: With all the eavesdropping and wire-tapping going on, all of which is sanctioned by the Administration, this episode is tantamount to child's play. It is however as you surmise and inadmissible under normal circumstances in a court of law, depending on who is prosecuting whom.  | |||
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As I said Larry, varies from state to state. Texas, for example, is a one party consent state (so long as one party consents to the recording, recording is okay). Florida on the other hand is a two party consent state (both parties must consent). Mike | |||
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Different ball game when the third party is notified prior to and that the conversation is on record; Miranda works on the same lines does it not? | |||
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read the transcript. i only mentioned what was brought up there by the 2 parties. i don't for a second believe that Larry Rudolph was running a prostitution ring but they discussed the allegation. i repeat- READ THE TRANSCRIPT. if it doesn't open you eyes to what goes on in the upper echelon of SCI leadership and the big bucks at play, then you are beyond hope..... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Not sure what you are asking exactly. I was simply referring to the fact that if you and I are having a telephone conversation in Texas, and I want to record it, I can record it and do not have to tell you that I am recording it. That just addresses whether the state wiretapping laws are violated. Most states are like Texas, requiring only one party to consent. What is and is not admissible in court is a whole different matter, and that is going to vary between a civil case and a criminal case. Mike | |||
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many states allow it as long as one person in the conversation knows they are being recorded. That the way it is in Idaho at least. How do you go about signing the petition? I have it pulled up and can not seem to do it electronically?
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+1 Steve, I don't believe I have anything to say to you with regard to your questions that wasn't stated above. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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From a "cheerleader": I don't know Larry Rudolph. I don't know Ralph Cunningham. I don't know John Whipple. Do these videos serve as proof or evidence of wrong doing? About equally as much as someone posting a video of big foot provides proof of the existence of big foot. Could every word be true? Yes. Do I know what's true or not? No. Does it affect my dedication to SCI? No Why? My chapter does great things that I see all the time and the international organization does a great job defending our hunting rights. My understanding of Larry Rudolph is that he is the proverbial good ol boys club inner circle award whore type that many here rail against. Did he do something wrong that warranted being run out of the club -vs- personal vendetta? I don't know. Did he get shut down in the last election because people didn't like his leadership and wanted a new less good ol boys direction? Yes. Could Larry Rudolph potentially be mad and trying to drag people through the mud including the club? Yes he could. Is he doing that? I don't know. What I wish people learned from the "Stu Taylor spent our money on litigation against Tim Herald" thread? Even when you absolutely know something for a fact and are privy to all the information you need……………you may not have all the correct information and you may not know what you're talking about. I'll be wise and reserve my official opinion for when I have some facts rather than tapes and innuendo…………which may or may not be true. If there's wrong doing I'll be the first to say there needs to be consequences for that. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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What, do you believe that SCI directors were running around telling people that Larry was running a prostitution? A lot of what was said in that meeting sounded like gossip. And I did read it all. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Brett Then that also means you lack backbone as well. The questions are perfectly valid and not unreasonable. They are: What do you think of the corruption shown in the video(s)? Do you think it's true? If so, do you think it's acceptable? Do you think there's more to be uncovered? Does it bother you? Has it changed your opinion about SCI & particularly the upper echelons? Oh and for those who are getting all antsy about being called 'cheerleaders' the (free dictionary) definition of a cheerleader is: "One who leads the cheering of spectators, as at a sports contest. 2. One who expresses or promotes thoughtless praise; an adulator". Defnition #2 seems to fit pretty much perfectly. | |||
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Brett, I have no idea how SCI functions, so may be you can enlighten me please. How much do you, at the Chapter level, have influence on what goes on at their headquarters? How much of what we have been hearing regarding the unacceptable behavior of those at the top of SCI were you aware of? If you did hear about it, did you, or any other chapter member, tried to get to the bottom of it?
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Steve, You were challenged to act instead of criticize and all you have are questions that have already been answered and names like spineless and cheerleaders. If you can't figure it out from my second reply then you'll just have to wonder forever. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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1. By headquarters I assume you mean the executive committee? I personally? Not much. The president of my chapter who I helped elect? Some. 2. I'm aware of none of it. 3. I haven't heard about it, so I haven't done anything. If SCI is being sued I doubt you will be having SCI big wigs coming on here for a rebuttal per the advice of council, so the only voice you will hear is the squeaky wheel. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Don't be silly.... I was a (UK) member and very quickly saw what was going on so left and it's got considerably worse since then..... anyone who thinks I'd rejoin an organisation that's worse now than it was when I left has to be deluded! As for challenges: You cheerleaders were challenged (several times) to answer a few VERY simple questions and not one has had the courage to do so...... They're not designed to make you guys betray anything or anyone the intention is simply to see if you condone such behaviour in the organisation of which you are a member. | |||
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Steve, No one condones improper behavior if it occurred at all. See the last sentence of my second post on this thread. People might rightly question Larry and his story though. They might also intelligently withhold opinion or comment until all the facts are in. Could he be right? Yes. Could he be wrong? Yes. Could there be some point in between? Yes. I'll reserve my comment and not get ahead of myself. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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The only looser in the end here is hunting. The anti hunters have for a long time made it clear the only way to destroy the sport of hunting is from within , our walls are crumbling and our core is being tested. Make no mistake not many on this forum or elsewhere can equal my challanging of SCI on some of their problem areas and children, some may recall on one of the threads I and other put it to one of the SCI messengers to go back and get some answers the poor bloke thought it was going to be straight forward , only never to be seen again, his vision was cleared when he went looking for answers. However any damage we or anybody else does to SCI - is damage to hunting. You remove cancer without cutting of the head. Not for one minute do I suggest letting this go , but for heavens sake people , do you not think that every anti hunting organization has not gotten their hands on this and is showing this as evidence against HUNTERS , not SCI alone , they paint us all with the same brush. Every anti hunting organization will use this as evidence against HUNTERS , not only SCI , yes these people have tarnished our sport , yes its unacceptable , but hell man , be the adult , take this out of the public forum , out of the fence sitting public's eye. Every one of us who fight the daily battle against the anti hunters have just been sent 1 million miles backwards. yes the good side is for the anti hunters to see us take up arms against the corupt members, this is good but what do they realy take from this - our fight to clean out the bad apples or that the biggest representative of our sport is dirty. As we head to Las Vegas , we can only hope that the damage done is not irepairable. I say this as someone who is disilusioned with having donated over $150 000-00 to SCI, and to what they have become. | |||
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Graeme you beat me to it. This is the worst thing for hunting. Already the greenies are saying that hunting uses the "Conservation through Hunting" Mantra as a guise to kill unsustainably. This is a blow to our ethics,integrity and honesty as a whole. True or Not All of us look bad now. This makes my daily battle on Social media to try and promote the positives of hunting as a conservation tool so much more difficult. regards Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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Which proves the point that I have been trying to make for years that we must be squeaky clean & be seen to be so & if we don't police ourselves then we'll end up with someone doing it for us....... Which is exactly why the dodgy lion hunts will one day come back to bite us in the arse. These things can never be cured by sweeping the dirt under the carpet. So much for 1st for hunters!  | |||
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I agree that no matter the outcome this is bad for hunting. It could make SCI powerless where is really counts, the world of lobbying. Personally, I think the investigation has to go forward. For it not to go further is worse. | |||
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Through all the years where people have been complaining about SCI conduct, nothing has happened. Now they have finally turned on one of their own, all hell is breaking loose. How many times before have we said it here that when the facts come out regarding SCI, it won't make any of us look very good at all? | |||
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Sadly this thread, and many of the posters on the thread, are the embodiment of the quote, "after all is said and done, a lot more will have been said than done." Mike | |||
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The leadership (or lack thereof) and the members are the problem at SCI. The core issue is this "club" is not a conservation organization. It is a club set up to award itself for "deeds done" by asking the members to pay for "participation trophies" that they give themselves for shooting something. I find the entire basis for the club repugnant. The disservice done to hunters is - 1. Creating an environment where "biggest, longest and best" get to buy themselves a nice prize. 2. The "SCI Measurement" system of gold, silver and bronze is being used not to measure or evaluate anything other than what to bill a hunter for shooting something. It is meaningless as the system stokes the egos of "hunters" who need "inches" to be somebody. 3. Outfitters are being conned by the "donation process" and the pressure to produce horns and antlers that meet some sort of false criteria - then charge the customer for that. 4. Forget conservation. It does not happen for a host of reasons. Phew! This stinks to the rotten core!!!! | |||
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The sad fact is, SCI conservation dollars can no longer compete with the amount of Chinese Yuan flooding into Africa. Africa doesn't suffer from snail darters and spotted owls standing in the way of strip mining and deforestation. It's only about who has the bigger wallet and SCI and WWF simply cannot begin to compete. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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What an unholy, stinking mess! Disgusting. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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It is interesting that SCI generates so much negative emotion on AR whilst DSC has such a positive attitude among AR members. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal, Please tell us what DSC has done to be criticized for? SCI has been at it for donkey's years, and no one listened when it was brought out in the open. | |||
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Steve: I am a member of SCI but neither a basher nor a cheerleader. I have one animal in the "book" because my PH asked me to enter it. How do you suggest I truly get the facts and then if appropriate act upon them? I don't think cancelling my membership is an answer. I don't think sitting on the sidelines and complaining works. What form of action do you think should be taken? As a US citizen I don't like the IRS issue, the NSA issue, the healthcare issue and many more. How as a citizen do I ever get the truth? I have written my representatives and get a biased "fog" depending on their party affiliation. I watched Stu Taylor get wronged by uninformed posts and want to be informed on this issue. Tell me how! Trying to topple SCI does not seem productive. It is vindictive but not productive. | |||
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The main problem with SCI is one of governance. Brett I am happy that you think so much of your home chapter. That however is akin to saying my city council does a great job while the Fed augars in with both wings on fire. Leadership in SCI has no oversight from the members at large,nor at the chapter level. The upper echelon of "leadership" is free to do whatever they wish. Many volunteer organisations take on an air of self congratulatory nature. Unfortunately self applause is the lynch pin for SCI. Dogcat sums it up painfully well. The only positive that I can see from SCI is lobbying. How ineffective have they been rendered now? Yuck Jeff | |||
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The following is from the website of IDA International (In Defense of Animals). Give this awards issue a lot more thought . It is a major problem IMHO. ------------------------------------------------ The Safari Club International (SCI) – the most ruthless trophy hunting organization Clearly leading the list of voracious hunting clubs with an appalling callousness towards wild animals worldwide, is the Safari Club International (SCI), a hunting advocacy group that promotes competitive trophy hunting throughout the world, even of rare species, and not shying away from canned hunts, through an elaborate awards program. The SCI continues to create and feed a culture glamorizing death and violence globally, across political lines, international borders, and against wildlife and even people. Fortunes are made on the back of millions of animals, whose lives are taken by trophy hunters for the sake of killing in an endless spiral of competition. Money is no object in the face of bragging rights for killing the biggest and the best of all species. SCI profits from the beginning to the end: from outfitting hunts to charging outlandish prices to enter its many circles of competition. Most people would be shocked to learn about the length these wildlife killers go to legally (and illegally) murder the largest, most beautiful and “exotic’ animals – the rarer the animal, the better. And to this end, the SCI even supports canned hunts. In fact, SCI, among others, challenged regulations to allow hunting of endangered African antelope species at fenced “game” ranches in Texas and Florida. Exerting their influence on the USFWS, the SCI argued that captive breeding was necessary for the survival and rescue of the species in the wild, and that “Sport hunting of surplus, captive-bred animals generates revenue that supports these captive-breeding operations and may relieve hunting pressure on wild populations. In the case of black rhino, 83% of those countries represented at the 2004 CITES meeting approved sport hunting of the species in limited numbers. With no remorse for brutally taking the lives of innocent wild animals already struggling to survive in human-dominated landscapes, members of SCI spend their wealth on killing-spree trips into remote areas and foreign countries to fulfill their lust to kill the largest animals, the most exotic animals and rack up SCI awards. Underlying these actions are futile efforts to transcend weak character, arrested emotional development, narcissism, sexual perversion, anger and finally, a misguided attempt to overcome their own disconnect to nature. | |||
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How many times have we talked about how SCI has turned hunting into a competitive sport. And the only ones who can compete are the very wealthy! | |||
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I agree. I am no longer a member or I would sign the petition not because I support Larry Rudolph, whom I find just as despicable as everyone else involved in this fetid mess, but because unless there is some transparency and accountability at the top levels of the organization it will become completely ineffective. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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The hunting world in general & SCI in particular have been giving the antis ammunition to use against us for years & the antis have been sitting back & waiting for a good moment to use that ammunition against us & now the upper echelons have been caught with their trousers down we can expect a shit storm of trouble...... & sooner or later, they'll do exactly the same thing with the canned lion issue. I hope SCI will have the sense to do a thorough clean up of their entire system & do it quickly so they can continue & get back to what they should have been doing for decades but I fear an awful lot of damage has already been done & quite honestly the hunting world in general & SCI in particular largely have themselves to blame for it. | |||
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"...weak character, arrested emotional development, narcissism, sexual perversion, anger and finally, a misguided attempt to overcome their own disconnect to nature." Actually, the above would most probably describe the PETA folks I know.  JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I think this entire matter needs to be taken very seriously. SCI clearly as problems that IMHO will only be corrected by something drastic. If we aren't careful, SCI will become ineffective. Like them or not, they have the best chance of protecting our interests. I am bothered by the video on many levels. It does show that there are problems, serous problems. Having said that, I am a bit concerned about the petition. It discusses specific events for which I have no first hand knowledge. On the other hand, it is easier to deal with specific events than generalizations. We had all better wake up about those f'ing awards. They are a serious problem for us. I used to feel differently about the awards. So, who has signed the petition? | |||
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There can be no integrity in any group unless every single member demands it of themselves and all of their associates. It's that simple. | |||
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I would suggest that SCI has already become self-serving and largely ineffective in Africa in regards to really protecting hunting rights. Their accomplishments are largely fluff and they sure can't win against the Chinese plague which is controlling access to animals and real estate. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Reform SCI Petition - From Dr. Larry Rudolph.
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