THATS IT!!!!! SAEED, PLEASE PLEASE BAN ME FROM THIS HOUSE OF MIRRORS

Chipolopolopolopolo

I am sure they would let you out of your commitment if you asked them nicely.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member (And I still like being one!!)

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
just curious, Saeed. if you think so little of SCI, why are you a life member? seems a big waste of money and a bit hypocritical to spend that kind of money on an organization you obviously have MAJOR disagreements with.

I joined SCI in 80's, and I have no regrets in being a member.

But, I don't think I would have joined knowing what I know now of their management style.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Adrook,

If this thread is your idea of fun, I admit I was fooled in that I thought you might have some character and simply didn't know much about what you wrote. Please accept my apology for confusion instead of misguided, and apparently unwarranted, respect.

Judge,

Keep your sanctimony to yourself. It is not I who based an entire career on telling lies. You claim to be a judge, if that is so I would think that you, of all people, would appreciate honesty as a virtue.

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Adrook,

If this thread is your idea of fun, I admit I was fooled in that I thought you might have some character and simply didn't know much about what you wrote. Please accept my apology for confusion instead of misguided, and apparently unwarranted, respect.

Judge,

Keep your sanctimony to yourself. It is not I who based an entire career on telling lies. You claim to be a judge, if that is so I would think that you, of all people, would appreciate honesty as a virtue.

I knew you couldn't keep up the act, pretending you had a sense of humor.

Admit it; you're obsessed with Capstick and his "undeserved" success. Who else but a fanatic doesn't let an SCI entry for a Zambian elephant with Capstick as a PH speak for itself? I mean, couldn't you give it a rest?

But Nooooo! Not you! Capstick chaps your hide. He's gotten under your skin. You just can't let it go. You'd rather chase ghosts and 40 year old documentation.

Thar she blows! Capt "adrook" Ahab is off after his Great White Whale (er, uhh, Great White Hunter) again.

Can first mate "Call me chipolopolo" be far behind?

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Adrook,

If this thread is your idea of fun, I admit I was fooled in that I thought you might have some character and simply didn't know much about what you wrote. Please accept my apology for confusion instead of misguided, and apparently unwarranted, respect.

Judge,

Keep your sanctimony to yourself. Your hero is like the emperor who has no clothes, blame him not me. It is not I who based an entire career on telling lies. You claim to be a judge, if that is so I would think that you, of all people, would appreciate honesty as a virtue.

adrook

Stop being such a tool. You have proved nothing. Your 'evidence' is from a Society that did not exist in the late 60's. You can't demonstrate that Capstick did not have a PH license. You can't even demonstrate that a Professional Hunters License was required in Zambia at the time.

You seem smarter than to act the Fool like this. Unless it is just out of boredom.

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:
You claim to be a judge, if that is so I would think that you, of all people, would appreciate honesty as a virtue.

And an old Marine -- I'll take that Sullivan bet........

JudgeG,

+1 for sure!!!

I do have to take issue with one point However. Inuit Honey? Possibly you were geographically confused?

Jeff

I was referring to BBBruce's abode up in the cold country.... a "Crater" comment, if you will.

Judge,

A little tongue in cheek on my part. Thanks for standing up for by a counts a decent guy(PHC) who can't stand up for himself. I wonder if he were alive would this thread occur?


Jeff

I really do not know what all the fuss is about.

PHC was a GREAT story teller. I enjoyed every book he wrote, and would have like it better if he had written more.

What he wrote about others was based on facts.

Now we know he has has taken liberty of adding a few things that did not really occur.

Some have brought that up, and those who like PHC have gone up in arms!

Why is the truth not acceptable to some?

He has, I think, encouraged more hunters to head to Africa than any writer I can think of.

not wanting to add to this thread but adrook and chipolopolo use a lot of the same language, crude style, and verbal assaults of some old names such as cats, carmelo, etc. Is it possible these guys have re-emerged?

I'll be the last person to ever bash Capstick. He is the reason I am going to Africa, but I found a quote by Capstick himself while reading "Last Horizons" last night. It is from an article called "Backyard Safari" and originally was in Guns & Ammo in June 1979, and describes how PHC's tombstone might read. I think it sums up this mess and Capstick quite well, so I will quote it here:

"We, however, have only his word for such deeds, for it is well known that he was half Irish"

Note - so none of Irish decent take offense:
I am not bashing the Irish by posting this, nor do I think PHC was. I have a good bit of Irish blood myself. I think he was simply saying that the Irish are known for their ability to spin a yarn, and he (PHC) was no exception.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37:



It is no mystery that Peter was probably a far better writer than he was a PH, by his own admission, but I could say that about many PHs today, and they are not even good writers! Take one example for instance, Bunny's self grandizing claims of his success with all the wives of clients on safari!What tripe! NOW there's one you should be doubting. His crap is nothing but high school locker room bragging IMO! I've always found that the guys who claim to be doing so well with the ladies, are usually the ones who are liveing in a fantasy world.

The one we should be Doubting? The late Bunny Allen never claimed, or even implied (in either of his two books) to be a Professional Writer...the way PC apparently claimed or implied he was a Professional Hunter (a PH who loved to give his "expert" advice on how a PH should dress up on a wounded leopard follow up; the correct way to carry a rifle; and let's not forget how he must wear a beret & monicle for tracking!) Talk about "Self Grandizing Tripe"!!!
Bunny also had a lot to say about hunting in his books (did you skip over all the great hunting stories?) His "Bush romance" stories, were nothing more then a very old man reminesing about the days long past (he started his long career back in the 1920's) when he was a young man. But I do agree, his books could have been better without as much of the romance stuff!
It can be easily proved that Bunny Allen (through photographic proof, names,etc) had a mulititude of clients during his long & successful career as a Licensed Professional Hunter and on Game Crontrol work in East Africa. This included movie stars & the rich & famous. People who (I doubt) would have put their lives in the hands of a PH with such limited experience as the person who is the topic of our discussion.
In Professional Hunter Brian Herne's excellent book: "White Hunters", Mr. Herne had quite a lot of info and good comments regarding Bunny. In the Chapter "Trailblazers of The 20's" After Donald Ker (of Ker & Downy) hired him, Frank "Bunny" Allen soon became an "Icon in the hunting World" and also refers to him as a "Lengendary Hunter". Pretty darn good compliments coming from a guy with a solid reputation like Brian Herne!! IMO, It is quite a rediculus arguement to even consider comparing these two people: One a great PH, the other a great writer.
Call Mr. Allen a lousy writer (if it makes you happy) but please don't question his abilities as a PH.

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37:

It is no mystery that Peter was probably a far better writer than he was a PH, by his own admission, but I could say that about many PHs today, and they are not even good writers! Take one example for instance, Bunny's self grandizing claims of his success with all the wives of clients on safari!What tripe! NOW there's one you should be doubting. His crap is nothing but high school locker room bragging IMO! I've always found that the guys who claim to be doing so well with the ladies, are usually the ones who are liveing in a fantasy world.[/QUOTE

[QUOTEr. Call Allen a lousy writer (if it makes you happy) but please don't question his abilities as a PH.

Where , sir, in my post did I suggest Bunny was not a good PH, or a bad writer? I'm certain he was a good PH,and his writeing is fine, but we are talking about liars here!

IMO, in that respect ,saying BUNNY was a little less than truthfull, is a gross understatement! I say in that repect, most of his conquests were in the bathroom , by himself, or in his dreams!

Bunny's only interest in writing that book was to tell us what a ladies man he thinks of himself!

It was the least enjoyable book I have read on African hunting.

You got the sense that Bunny's book was in the works for some time and that he was more highly motivated earlier then later (like when he was doing movie stars)

The first part, while not great, was better written then the later part.

I think he dusted off an old project and reviewed some old billing reciepts and tried to put a finish on the book.

quote:

Bunny's only interest in writing that book was to tell us what a ladies man he thinks of himself!

It was the least enjoyable book I have read on African hunting.

I have to wonder about the women who were 'conquered' by a man named Bunny.

Ann,

P'raps he caught them on the hop!

Now that was funny!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
When I read some of this, the people who write the posts remind me of the trash in our midst that deface old grave yards, and kick over head stones of the departed! Sick individulas who respect nothing, but their own image in a mirror!

IMO this world has become a very angry, me, and screw everyone else, world that is somehow more of a worry than global warming, and world recession. I think we could use some more dreamers like Peter Capstick, who hurt nobody I know! R.I.P. PHC

Mac D37: To answer your question: your whole paragraph pretty much seems to slam him does it not???? No, you did not say he was a "bad writer", you said he was not a good writer, and called his writing "Crap" & "Tripe". I would say that should equate to calling him a bad writer. But you are certainly entitled to that opinion sir! You do make it pretty clear your dislike for Allen. Your opening two sentences sounds like you were suggesting Allen was a poor writer. I give Your quote: "...AND THEY ARE NOT EVEN GOOD WRITERS! TAKE ONE EXAMPLE FOR INSTANCE"... You then use Bunny Allen as your "Example" to make whatever point it is your trying to make.... When I read it, It seemed that you were "kicking over the headstone of the departed" youself, Something you openly accused others of doing to your hero PHC. I did read your reply, and If this was NOT your intention to slam him, Then so be it; HAMNA SHIDA Bwana! I have absolutely no problem with your opinions, in fact I welcome them, and do agree regards the excessive womanizing stories in his 3 books! Whould I call it "Crap"? No. Just because we dont like the subject matter; does not mean a piece of writing is Crap. But A real pity he did not leave them completly as hunting books! it seems his attempt to author a 'different' kind of safari book backfired. (BTW: didn't a guy named Hemingway have a Best Selling book all about a African PH who bedded the client's wife??) Our difference is: I enjoyed his true hunting stories, and pretty much chuckled & skipped over all the love parts... Appears you maybe did the opposite? Just because you & I both did NOT like reading about his Bedroom Bragging antics, does not mean Allen was an author of CRAP & TRIPE. There is quite a bit of good interesting hunting (which you did not mention)so dont throw the baby out with the bath water. Again, I agree his bragging of female conquests was too much; but shouldn't detract from the hunting stories of this much respected (and genuine) old PH, who was a good writer,but never claimed to be a professional author. If you hate Allen's book, of course you are free to get rid of it, just as I did with PHCs books (after I saw his videos) To each, his own! BTW: I kept his videos around for whenever I need a good laugh! They're priceless!

Who Needs Capstick with some of the real winners who post stuff on AR.



Urdubob

Well what a wonderful thread.

I have read every damn honest word posted, some posts would make mother teresa happy, others come close to outwitting Bob Mugabe in his rhetoric BUT it is patiently obvious that no one can deny with their hand on their ..... that PHC was the greatest PH and Story teller that ever walked the veld of modern day Africa.

Please dont impeach the man without him having a chance for redress

Keep reading the books and you will be a much wiser and better man for the experience, you will be following in the footsteps of tens of thousands whom read before you

Cheers, Peter

quote:

have to wonder about the women who were 'conquered' by a man named Bunny.

Bunny-huggers?

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
When I read some of this, the people who write the posts remind me of the trash in our midst that deface old grave yards, and kick over head stones of the departed! Sick individulas who respect nothing, but their own image in a mirror!

IMO this world has become a very angry, me, and screw everyone else, world that is somehow more of a worry than global warming, and world recession. I think we could use some more dreamers like Peter Capstick, who hurt nobody I know! R.I.P. PHC

Mac D37: To answer your question: your whole paragraph pretty much seems to slam him does it not???? No, you did not say he was a "bad writer", you said he was not a good writer, and called his writing "Crap" & "Tripe". I would say that should equate to calling him a bad writer. !

Tanz-PH, I agree that passage was poorly written, but I'm not a writer! The example of Bunny was not meant to say he was a bad writer, but was meant to say he was more likely than not a damn liar! That is the whole accusation against PHC. That is what I meant by what he wrote about the women in his book was TRIPE!

There are several PHs who are fine PHs, but still have written books, but are not good writers. I'm not a good writer myself, but I'm not PH, or a writer, and I don't claim to be either!

As I said to you before , I'm quite sure Bunny was a fine PH, but I did find his writeing boreing, on hunting portion, but that is opinion only.

My post could have been worded better to state my problem with Bunny's book, compared to what everyone is saying about PHC's books. That is the probable lies! I still say anyone who pounds his chest about his conquest with the wives and doughters of his clients, is in danger of being called a locker room liar! Bunny fits that slot!

Yet it seems everyone is so willing to believe everything most writers on Africa write, but when it comes to PHC the general opinion seems to be everything he wrote was an out and out lie! I simply disagree, that's all! Make no mistake PHC is not my hero,I was interested in hunting Africa befor PHC was born, but I think what is food for the gander, is also food for the goose. If we are to publicly ridicule every writer who we think is a liar, then what exempts all the rest?

For that matter, I don't know you either, but I assume from your screen name, you are a PH in Tanzania, I don't know that to be true. IS IT? Addtionally I have no idea if you are compitant as a PH either, and if you write a book should we believe everything you write as EXACTLY the way things happened? We will see after you finish your book, and we will see how well you are believed! That might be a wake up call for you sir!

All I ask is a level playing field, but as long as we believe every writer except PHC, that field is a slipery slope.

NOW! I'm through with this thread, and the kangaroo court here!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Bunny's only interest in writing that book was to tell us what a ladies man he thinks of himself!

It was the least enjoyable book I have read on African hunting.

Agreed. I read many books in the past two years and Bunny's book is at the bottom of my list.

Chipolopolo and Adrook think PHC was a liar and fraud.

Okay, duly noted.

Do you guys work for Holland & Holland?

No matter.

Anybody got a cheap copy of Peter Capstick's Africa : A Return To The Long Grass they want to sell? Only one I dont have.

thanks

I have them both, Rare never read.
150.00 each

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly3511:
Learn how to use the ENETER button

Whats an ENETER

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly3511:
Learn how to use the ENETER button

Whats an ENETER

That's what I was wondering about an "imbarassment". I think they may be gay terms that we are unfamiliar with. Imbarassment has ass in it and I think "Eneter Here" is what must be tattooed on Pauly's ass.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
I have them both, Rare never read.
150.00 each

if they were never read, how do you know they are full of lies? oh, that's right- a friend of a friend of a relative of a PH TOLD YOU.

Remember dont ASSUME anything as before YOU ME or others ( ASSUME - ASS U ME ) Captstick to be a fraud, PUSH the PAUSE button because you might just make an ASS out of U and ME

Cheers, Peter

Was that 3rd grade or 4th grade we were taught that

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Was that 3rd grade or 4th grade we were taught that

Some people never learn.

I agree wholehartedly with Peter. And others who have expressed similar sentiments.

I've heard the harsh criticism from PH's too. I hope they aren't so harsh in their evaluation of me, but I suspect those folks will be. Makes me think about booking with them in the future.

Capstick was a writer. Did Hemmingway or Ruark actually experience everything they wrote about? Should they have to? I don't think Ruark was involved in the Mau Mau rebellion. Does that mean Something of Value and Uhuru are a fraud? I thought they were pretty good books. I think some of Capstick's books are pretty good too -- not great, but pretty good.

I think it is unseemly to vilify a man, whose performed the task he set out to complete -- a good book - after he's dead and no longer here to defend himself.

'Nuf said. Anyone who disagrees with me can stuff it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I really do not know what all the fuss is about.

There's no fuss, Saeed.

Either you have a sense of humor or you don't.

If you don't, you can't appreciate Capstick.

You, Saeed, have a sense of humor. Of course, we don't need a thread on Capstick to know that. We already have the political forum.

A bunch of people, though, have identified themselves as completely lacking in that department. That's why they're petulantly throwing books into fires and poring over PHAZ records.

What they can't see is that if Capstick didn't appropriate someone else's stories (if indeed that's what he did) and tell them, no one would have. And they're good stories that needed to be told. The ankle-biters complaining about how the story Capstick told on himself never really happened that way, that it actually happened to them, weren't going to get off their ass and write a damn book.

Capstick did. Good on him.

The ankle-biters also don't have a sense of fair play.

I know, I know; Capstick crossed some sort of line writing what he did about the sainted Taylor and his nocturnal frolics with the local boy's club.

Get over it.

But if you can't, at least recognize that the book you are childishly throwing into the fire because the author gored your sacred cow was not written anonymously, and presented whatever evidence the author had. Which represents a higher level of industriousness, guts and integrity than these anonymous Zambian PHs are demonstrating in their chicken-shit little whispering campaign.

Again, if the ankle-biters want any respect at all they can man-up and demonstrate the same cajones Capstick did. Write a damn book, and sign your name to it.

It probably won't be as good a book as Capstick could have written. It certainly won't cut into the sales of his books, as the type of person who'd buy it won't buy a Capstick book anyway. That would hurt their self-promotion as a real, authentic, in-the-know Africa hand who "saw through the BS right away."

Whatever.

But at least it would be a step up from the high-school-girl level gossip campaign the chicken-shit ankle-biters are waging against Capstick at the moment.

Again, well said, China Fleet Sailor.

This thread has inspired me to read them all over again. Thank you! I believe I will start with "Death in the Long Grass"........

quote:

What they can't see is that if Capstick didn't appropriate someone else's stories (if indeed that's what he did) and tell them, no one would have. And they're good stories that needed to be told. The ankle-biters complaining about how the story Capstick told on himself never really happened that way, that it actually happened to them, weren't going to get off their ass and write a damn book.

Excellent post. You would have to be at least into your mid 60's to have been hunting in Zambia when Capstick was there. Any younger and your just a Jackal pulling at the leg of a Lion.

I used to get a kick out of Bob Langeveld giving Peter shit about his books. All he ever got in reply was a wink and occasionally the question of, "When are you going to write a book Bob?" (That would have been a Great Book too. Sad that he never did)

MacD37: Thanks for your last reply. I'm sure you're a good writer (Perhaps the other was written in a bit of hurry?) Since you seem to be a decent, intelligent fellow, I'll say that it was never my intention to nit-pick on your writing, nor your opinions either. If it came across that way, then I appologize. All opinions should be (although not always are) welcome here, as this is supposed to be a dicussion forum. right?

You said it correct: some ph's are not great writers. The trouble is (I believe)that many get talked into writing by friends & family (you must put all your great stories down, before you die!!). Some of these old guys can not even compose a good post card greeting, much less a book!

That said, I'd guess all great men like Capstick & Allen have their flaws. I don't hate PHC, he was a GREAT writer; even if not my personal "Cup of Tea". (I much prefer reading: Tony Sanchez, Akeley, Herne, Hunter, Nicholson, etc to guys like Capstick, Ruark & Hemingway). But thats just my tastes...

I agree. I too am also done with the thread, but will say one last thing on this subject: Jim Rikoff (Amwell Press) and Safari Books, as publishers of his books (1st Wheel, 2nd wheel, wheel of life) both I'm sure read Allen's manuscripts. Now I can not imagine why they did not advise Allen to limit or at least tone down the romance stuff?? Too bad, because I'm sure he had many more hunting stories left in him, seeing he was hunting in Africa from 1927 to 1967!! kinda reminds me of Tony Dyer's book: The Big Five, which (to me) reads more like a nature book, with darn little hunting story or photos. disspointing coming from a PH of his calibre. Can you imagine the stories he left out?

To answer your question: Yes, I am a licensed professional hunter in TZ for almost 10 years. (with several years as PH in another country as well). Am I "competent"? From what my satisfied clients tell me, I should like to think so. A book? No plans to do one at all, but If God allows me a few more years messing around in the bush, maybe when I'm too old to do anything else but write, I may have too? haha who knows?

A very fine post TanzPH! It is a breath of fresh air to see that some people can get along without name calling, and disrespecting everuone who even insinuates that he disagrees!

Good show, Mate, and good hunting!

PS; I'll look forward to reading your book, if I live that long,I'm in my 73rd year, so I may miss it by a few years!

Capstick and Sullivan were gay lovers and they both used Marlin lever guns in 45-70 for buffalo hunitng!!