quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
With all this anti PHC, it sounds like he may have started SCI, well according to Steve and Saeed.

Nope, I reckon PHC contributed a lot to the African hunting industry, whereas it's the African hunting industry that does the contributing to SCI.

Damn, I just couldn't resist that one!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
With all this anti PHC, it sounds like he may have started SCI, well according to Steve and Saeed.

It might take SCI 100 more years to be able to get as many people to Africa as Capstick has.

In fact, comparing what Capstick did to African hunting to what SCI is doing, is more like comparing chalk and cheese!

I guess you can label me as a fraud as well as I've checked out this pitiful thread again. It's nice to be in a position that when all the new clients have arrived at the lodge you don't get stuck with the african guru!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It might take SCI 100 more years to be able to get as many people to Africa as Capstick has.

In fact, comparing what Capstick did to African hunting to what SCI is doing, is more like comparing chalk and cheese!

Well said, sir!

in PHC' book "Safari..The Last Adventure" there is a picture in Chapter 8 of a pair of .375 cartridges with his work permit as a PH in Zambia in the background. Looks like the date is 1969.

I am certainly computer challenged and cannot scan the page so perhaps one of our more saavy posters who has the book can reprint it.

Thanks,

RCG

Boy, I sure hope someone post the scan, so this thread dies.

JPK

It is probably a forgery planted in the book by the publisher to help perpetuate the myth/conspiracy that PHC was a PH.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
With all this anti PHC, it sounds like he may have started SCI, well according to Steve and Saeed.

Nope, I reckon PHC contributed a lot to the African hunting industry, whereas it's the African hunting industry that does the contributing to SCI.

Damn, I just couldn't resist that one!

I just checked Chapter 8 in that book, and it is not a license but his passport with his work visa, listed as "Profesional hunter", is there on page 127. As near as I can read it is valid to Nov 29 1969 stamped Zambia. His immagration entry permit was issued May 28 1969.

................

As was mentioned early on in a well written post, we live in a world where too many search for the clay feet in anyone famous and the even not so famous.

Witness the delight that historians and others have now in tearing down figures in history. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon to trash Washington, Lincoln, or Jefferson.

I'm grateful every day that my wife, family and friends ignore my many faults and concentrate on the few qualities I do have.

PHC, as he did for many here, fired up my imagination about hunting Africa. For that I will always be thankful.

You know I was at the Eastern Sprotsman show yesterday and ask some African hunting vendors what they thought about SCI and their response was very favorable not a bad word. ?

Since Peter really hasn't done anything that hurt anyone (if indeed he was never a PH) then why not consentrate on what he did that was a positive for African hunting?

465H&H

DOJ - That's nice to hear and I suspect that is the general concensus of most hunters out there. We just get a few here on AR that have a personal agenda to push whatever their reason towards the bashing of SCI. As in all things, the minority always seem to get the most "press time" by the liberals out there.

How was the show in general and what's the weather like back that way? Thanks for the update!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
You know I was at the Eastern Sprotsman show yesterday and ask some African hunting vendors what they thought about SCI and their response was very favorable not a bad word. ?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Well seeing the Crapstik fans dont care that he wrote fiction, then they must have also been entertained by his slagging of Taylor.
Craptick was an Ex stockbroker, he was aware that emotions dictate the market, likewise he used the same approach in his writings to good success. Its all about perception.

This is hilarious. Capstick was widely slammed for telling the TRUTH about Taylor. Not fiction.

Read what Tony Sanchez Arino had to say about Capstick; that he should have had the "good taste" to know when to shut up.

Trax; another "stellar" individual who just doesn't get it.

Those of us who read and enjoyed Capstick, and later went to Africa, found the place to be everything he described it as. He did that better than all his mewling, pathetic critics.

So it doesn't really matter if the author was everything he said he was. I for one am not going to think any less of the man based on the anonymous whining of some anonymous Zambian PH who is perfectly willing to feed an internet rumor mill, while pretending he must remain "above it all" publicly because Capstick's books put money in his pocket.

That demonstrates dishonesty only on the part of the unnamed Zambian PH. Not Capstick. On top of that, it demonstrates poor headwork.

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:
I'll not name any names as he wishes to remain anonymous but the man I'm referring to has been a PH for about as long as I've been alive and is a legend in the industry and he's not the only PH to have related such stories to me.

Obviously PHC did a lot for the industry and helped to put a lot of money in a lot of people's pockets so they are understandably loathe to admit publicly what they will readily state privately.

All this has done, frankly, is prove there is no honor among thieves. If Capstick was supposedly the fraud you and they allege, but too important to the bottom line to criticize, I'd at least have some respect for a PH who is willing to keep his end of the deal and maintain the conspiracy of silence. That would at least show he knew which side his bread was buttered on, and who buttered it. That would at least show some intelligent self-interest, if not towering integrity. These anonymous PHs can't even do that.

Earth to Zambian PHs: when you go to the DSC or SCI conventions and start telling every s#@!$ing d!@# who comes up to your booth what you "secretly" believe about PHC, you are speaking publicly!

So these guys strike out on all counts. No integrity and no brains.

All you guys who can't let this thing go 13 years after Capstick died just don't get it. All these allegations of "fraud" directed at Capstick miss the mark. He never defrauded his readers. He wasn't trying to sell me his services as a PH. He sold me a book. It was a good book. I bought more. They were good books. I wish he had lived to write more. If I had a chance to share a campfire with him and hear some more stories, like Saeed I'd welcome the chance.

The same does not go for the petty little book keepers picking nits. You may be amusing to toy with on the internet, but it'd be a tedious chore to have to sit around every evening listening to you guys cluck over this and that.

I know it's fashionable for every one who wants to self-identify themselves as a real, clued-in, old Africa hand to denigrate Capstick, and go on and on and on about how they knew the guy was full of BS the first time they read his book, blah blah blah. As they stare into the fire with that "miles and miles of bloody Africa" gaze.

Get a life! It just isn't that impressive. As a matter of fact, if I ever get as ossified and miserable to be around as the "Crapstick was a fraud" crowd, I'd hope a friend who remembered what I was like before I my brain died would put the rest of me out of my misery. Do you have any idea what a bunch of pompous old ladies you all come across as? For most of us, hunting is a recreational activity. We do it because we enjoy it. Capstick wrote escape reading about that activity. And apparently a bunch of morose, over-serious bores just can't stand the fact that he did that successfully. What's worse, you people are so seriously lacking in imagination, it's somehow occurred to you that the rest of us need to be "corrected." And you just won't let it go.

Give me Capstick any day! Whatever his faults, he wasn't the depressing nag his critics are.

He was apparently somewhere close to half the PH he claimed to be, at least. I hope to hell he was at least half the con man you guys say. If so he's got to be laughing at YOU, not me, beyond the grave.

I'd buy him a drink and congratulate him for not only ripping off, but pissing off, all the right people.

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
Let me say up front that I have never been a Capstick fan. I read his books long after I had read about everything out there by Hunter, Taylor, Corbett and all the rest. When I did, my personal "bullshit meter" jumped off the wall. Total gut level reaction, but nothing rang true. When I later saw his videos, I had complete faith in my initial reaction. They bordered on a spoof of a hunting video, I thought.

That said, the books were entertaining, but in no way did I ever feel that he was honest about his own exploits in them. For me, that ruined them. Someone above made the claim that it was OK, since all authors write fiction. That doesn't get a free pass with me. Some do. We call those books "Fiction" when they go on the library shelf. If they are not purported to be fiction, they are therefore assumed to be non-fiction. A lot of authors embellish, as I feel sure Taylor did. However, I also feel that he knew what he was writing about and had lived through a lot of it. Others, such as Hunter, you felt maybe actually downplayed their exploits.

Fom a personal standpoint, I simply never enjoyed Capstick's books because the works themselves seemed contrived when they were supposed to be factual. I don't care a twit about proof, because the works are what they are and that is my reaction to them. Many enjoy them, and that's fine.

What really galled me about Capstick was his book on Taylor. (I actually did burn that one. Threw it in the fireplace when I finished it). I thought it unconsionable that he would write such a non-flattering biography with so little hard evidence about someone who was dead and couldn't defend himself. Taylor was obviously a flawed individual, who had his own demons. This was obvious if you read between the lines of his own books. Be that as it may, it did no one any practical good (except Capstick and his publisher) to issue such a posthumous degrading biography. The character flaws reported were mostly of a personal nature, and had little bearing on his writings as a firearms expert, so reporting them served no public service (such as possibly showing that the volumes of information he wrote on firearms was not true).

What amazes me here is how this very argument is being used to defend Capstick (what's the point; the man's dead; no one cares because his writing was so good etc), when Capstick did this very thing for profit re: Taylor. The whole line of objection is morally disconnected. By Capstick's own actions, he supported digging up dirt and reporting every unsavory fact of a persons life, so people should be encouraged to do the same concerning his life; OR the act of digging into the sordid details of a dead author's life is in bad taste, and Capstick should be castigated for doing to Taylor what people are apparently doing to him.

Ya can't have it both ways guys.

Art, You got it right.

Very well said!!

Well said, also.

I have a hard time separating the man from what he says he did as a writer. A fraud is someone claiming to be something they are not or have done something they have not. I have no proof on Capstick other than word of mouth. He was a decent writer, he was also a decent editor. I think he lived a bit in a dream world.

On his handling of Pondoro Taylor, I think he was criticizing in Taylor what he saw in himself - that he was not what he wanted people to believe he is or was. It would have been a hard way to live. Possibly the reason for the drinking and over indulgence of self. Same for Ruark and Hemmingway.

I'm with Saeed on this one. Great fiction writer.
That said, that quality does not compel me to respect him as I do some other folks, like Lott, Wells, and Van Horn.

Does anyone know if he really did come up with the the .470 Capstick, or, if his cartridge designs are someone elses, with his name on them?

The .470 was named after him.

When's somebody gonna chamber something for the .12 Adrook?

Guys the bottom line is this. Capstick probably got 75% of the people who have hunted in Africa fired up about going there in the first place. I am sure he embellished a lot of his stories, but what writer has not. I have all his books and enjoyed them very much. The books are what has gotten myself interested in hunting in Africa. Oh, and by the way I wonder how many millions of $$$ the Africa hunting operators have made over the years because of Capsticks books. Maybe all the PH's should take polls of their clients to see which ones have read his books. I know that his Botswana video series really got me going.

Since some of our AR members like to talk about frauds, check out some of the past Weatherby Award winners. I know of one that I had the misfortune to meet at a Pig hunting camp and he was a real work of art. Jack O' Connor devoted a chapter in one of his books just about these famous, brave, hardworking, ethical hunters.

Paul C

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
When's somebody gonna chamber something for the .12 Adrook?

You mean the .12 Adcrook H&H? (the HH standing for Homo and Hater of corse)

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly3511:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
When's somebody gonna chamber something for the .12 Adrook?

You mean the .12 Adcrook H&H? (the HH standing for Homo and Hater of corse)

quote:

We just get a few here on AR that have a personal agenda to push whatever their reason towards the bashing of SCI. As in all things, the minority always seem to get the most "press time" by the liberals out there.

That is the silliest remark I have heard on the SCI subject so far!

Why the hell would any of us have any reason to bad mouth SCI?

SCI has been blowing their own trumpet about all the great benefits they bestow on the African hunting community.

While all we see is them robbing them clean!

We have been asking the very SAME QUESTION, for several weeks now, and all the defenders of SCI have NOT been able to come up with an answer.

I will give you an answer.

Just look at the lion conservation thread. The same question was raised about SCI.

John J. Jackson, who obviously has nothing to hide, came over and and told us what is happening.

By the way, just as we have mentioned that EVERY single PH we have talked too is unhappy about the behaviour of the SCI management.

Every single one of them has great respect for John J. Jackson.

Is there any surprise there?

One is trying his best for conservation, and one is trying their best to blackmail the African hunting industry into bankruptcy!

How come we don't get a straight answer from SCI of what they are actually doing for African hunting?

Capstick, despite the fact that he lied in his writings, has been an incredible supporter of hunting in Africa.

We cannot say the same about SCI.

------------------------------

What I like best about this whole Arguement?????, is that hunters want to stand around and claim how well or much they support each other, yet because someone that clearly got many individuals interested in going to Africa, now, according to some of these folks that claim to want to defend hunting and keep the sport alive, seem to want to dig up a Dead Man, Tar and Feather him, simply because he did not live up to their expectations and was able to profit on his ability to sell his self and a story.

Call The Damn WAAAAAAMBULANCE.

Every one that has ever hunted anywhere, took two breaths of air, able to have a normal bowel movement, has the same option to do what Capstick did, the difference is, Capstick had the balls to sell his self and his stories, real or imagined, and others don't, So They Are Jealous.

It ain't Capstick's fault that other folks are cowards and can't Man Up and write their story, It Is THEIR Fault.

Whether Capstick is a fraud or not, does not matter, it is the actual personal make up of people that want to tarnish the history of someone that saw an opportunity to be remembered for something, and took it.

Why don't you whiner's get the various booksellers to stop selling his books and tell all the folks that bought his books to go out and burn them.

It is this kind of BS that will eventually help kill hunting.

If Capstick is a Fraud, BFD, he is dead and can not admit to or dispute anyone's claims.

Get a life and let go of the petty shit.

Capstick was successful at interesting people into going to Africa, don't like that, TOUGH.

just curious, Saeed. if you think so little of SCI, why are you a life member? seems a big waste of money and a bit hypocritical to spend that kind of money on an organization you obviously have MAJOR disagreements with.

>>>>>>>"I stand corrected BUT believe that Peter's wife Fiona Claire Capstick is now married to MR.Pires .. I think he might be the Pires whom Fiona has written about in the Book Winds of Havoc. Might be an interesting bok to read, also think Fiona is going to write a biography of Peter's life, wow it will certainly be a BEST SELLER" >>>>>>>


You are correct. Peter's widow is married to Adelino Serras Pires, and "The Winds of Havoc" is interesting and worthwhile reading. But don't' look for Fiona to write Peter's biography.

The last time I spoke with her about it a year or so ago, she said she would never write it herself and was unwilling to cooperate with me or any other author. I doubt that she's changed her mind since then.

Incidentally, she was not at the Dallas show last month. Adelino collapsed in the Jo'berg airport as they were heading for the States. In an email yesterday, she said his health will not allow them to travel overseas again.

Bill Quimby

Capstick is NOT a FRAUD, and never was.

He is the same as most or a good many of us on these AR forums. We all like to tell OUR story or A STORY in our own venacular.

If you have ever talked to any hunter or fisherman, you know very well how the factual story from the bush or the sea changes and often becomes TALLER and more COLOURFUL when it gets retold around the campfire and the BAR.

So dont belittle or castigate Capstick, when all he was doing is what we all tend to do from time to time ... EXAGERATE or expand upon the facts ...

At the end of the day JEALOULY and ENVY can sometimes cause rude remarks.

Keep taking the pills and get over it, Peter was one of a kind, and this thread bears that out as we cant seem to get enough of the man and his wonderful stories that are Indelibily imprinted in the minds of many.

Remember one mans liar is another mans tonic, one mans junk is another mans treasure, and one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, so if the CAP FITS then WEAR IT, but dont tells others not to wear it if they choose, that is the beauty of choice

Cheers, Peter

Any man who won Fiona's love is probably better than me. That includes PHC and Adelino Serras Pires.

Without going into confidences, Fiona was the real thing. I doubt that she would have been fooled by PHC. And she writes better than he.

More power to the memory of PHC and the continuing saga of Adelino. Great ascots he has and no one was more of a real "P.H." Mr. Pires.

And since I love PHC, SCI, DSC and even BBBruce.. I'd eat a pizza at Saeed's place, read a little of Death in the Tall Grass to everyone before a mesquite fire, join an inter circle, watch a Boddington video, sleep with an Inuit honey, kick Mark Sullivan's ass, beg the blessing of a priest, Iman, Rabbi or Southern Baptist preacher.. and even drink a few fingers of Shootaway's whisky, that is, as soon as Shootaway turns out to be a real person and not some Dacron that was shot out of a .470 N.E. last Saturday morning.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Any man who won Fiona's love is probably better than me. That includes PHC and Adelino Serras Pires.

Without going into confidences, Fiona was the real thing. I doubt that she would have been fooled by PHC. And she writes better than he.

More power to the memory of PHC and the continuing saga of Adelino. Great ascotts, he has and no one was more of a real "P.H." than he.

And since I love PHC, SCI, DSC and even BBBruce.. I'd eat a pizza at Saeed's place, read a little of Death in the Tall Grass to everyone before a mesquite fire, join an inter circle, watch a Boddington video, sleep with an Inuit honey, kick Mark Sullivan's ass, beg the blessing of a priest, Iman, Rabbi or Southern Baptist preacher.. and even drink a few fingers of Shootaway's whisky, as soon as he turns out to be a real person and not some Dacron that was shot out of a .470 N.E. last Saturday morning.

Hey celebrate the story teller, and PHC was A wonderful story teller. The hunt is but a moment in time. The story is much more complex. The behavior,the biology, the country and the people you share it with. The story is bound to change with time as we gain new insights. Somethings get left behind as they lose importance. Peter Hathaway Capstick's storys have helped me appreciate my own hunting experiances.

Judge,
Nice but I assure you, you stand exactly zero chance at kicking Mark Sullivan ass. Thats MR.
Sullivan to you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Judge,
Nice but I assure you, you stand exactly zero chance at kicking Mark Sullivan ass. Thats MR.
Sullivan to you.[/QUOTE

Fellow:
With witnesses of folks who occasionally post here, I've had a drink or three with Mr. Sullivan (Mark to me, btw) at the Sea Cliff. He, and the other fellows there that evening, would understand the irony and unintended humor (not to mention the jealousy) of your comment... even if you never will. BTW, I've had my chance to "choose how I wanted to die", and am still here... and I'm not talking about four legged choices.

Lighten up. I'll buy you a drink.. or breakfast, bangers and all, in Dar some day.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
just curious, Saeed. if you think so little of SCI, why are you a life member? seems a big waste of money and a bit hypocritical to spend that kind of money on an organization you obviously have MAJOR disagreements with.

I joined SCI in 80's, and I have no regrets in being a member.

But, I don't think I would have joined knowing what I know now of their management style.

Judge,
It seems to me that I and Adrook and a very limited few other posses an actual sense of humor and use this forum as what it is intended to be entertainment of like minded indiviuals, some, (I don't mean you because we've never met)
Get all bunched up and act like a bunch of F U C K T A R D S over shit that just doesn't really matter. A post of 160 some odd now seems to me to be rather entertaining, don't you?

Hook line & Sinker Judge, Hook line and sinker

I know and love Fiona. I just hope she understands your idea of humor. She is a true warrior princess. I doubt that she will give a shit even if she reads the trashing of her late husband... but I'm going to defend the memory of the guy, anyway.

Maybe we'll understand each other now. I hope so.

Peace to you.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Hook line & Sinker Judge, Hook line and sinker

Well stated, Mate. been good!

I know mark Sullivan (but don't love him). I just hope he understands your idea of humor.

See what I mean.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I know and love Fiona. I just hope she understands your idea of humor.

As Saeed stated earlier, he brought this upon himself by not telling the truth, chances are that she understands that.

Adrook,

If this thread is your idea of fun, I admit I was fooled in that I thought you might have some character and simply didn't know much about what you wrote. Please accept my apology for confusion instead of misguided, and apparently unwarranted, respect.