quote:

Only asking since you seem to think my opinion is "ludicrous" as you lead your comment with a quote from my post.

quote:

With all that said, comparing a person bringing food and drinks to someone's table in a climate controlled building during an evenings meal against what guides and campstaff do for a client during a multi day hunt in the bush, in whatever the weather conditions might be, on a 24 hour basis is to say the least ludicrous.

quote:

I found out I didn't have to go for a week with out bathing, eating poor food and freezing my ass off to have a good time. Oh for those mornings when you have to break the ice on the basin to wash up vs Sir, Sir your morning water is ready, and it is heated water.

quote:

I found out I didn't have to go for a week with out bathing, eating poor food and freezing my ass off to have a good time. Oh for those mornings when you have to break the ice on the basin to wash up vs Sir, Sir your morning water is ready, and it is heated water.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
fujptupu, is refering the recent court case where a federal judge (don't know his back ground i e who appointed him) found against Mario Batallie (sp) and his partners regarding a method of tipping to their restaurants employees. I believe Mario is a partner or full owner of 17 high scale restaurants. I am not familar with the details but it would seem they used a pooled method of tip distribution. Now talk about an american sucess story Mario has one. Another example of hard work not only physical but also mental. Unfornately most people thing of hard work as being only physical - not so.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

One of the reaons for that in the U.S., is because the restaraunt/bar industry, does not have to pay its workers minimum wage.

The above and possibly the draconian labor laws
that deny workers their rights ?

Fujo - Workers don't have rights! A job is a privilege, not a right.

My father had a famous saying: "the only right the working man has is the right to quit."

Those "cotton picking" days are long gone and besides, someone in your neck of the woods if I am not mistaken was recently taken to the cleaners for $5m for skimping on waiters' tips .... helluva price for the so-called privilege

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

The people who made him successful were the army of employees, sous chefs to cleaners

NO Fujo, he made hisself successful...and while doing so...he gave them employment opportunities.

and of course, the paying customer.

The customer part is quite true...because he provided a product and service that they were willing to spend their hard-earned dollar for!!!

Without his army of employees, Mario or any other person for that matter would not be able to conduct their business; so to say that it is a privilege is hardly true.

It is absolutely true Fujo. I am sure Chef Mario could have made living with his own 2 hands with out them. But...instead...he chose to invest his capital, his time, his heartand soul...being the only person with a chance to loose and loose big. By doing so...he created jobs. Those folks should be thankful for folks like Mario or do it themselves. Those jobs are a priviledge NOT a right. Cause Chef Mario can just quit providing them and then where will thay be???


His privileged staff were on a basic salary, similar to those guys you find in a hunting camp who rely heavily on the tips they receive from clients.

Tips are a reward for a job well done...not something that should be guaranteed. If they are to be guaranteed...let start calling them camp staff wages...not tips.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

One of the reaons for that in the U.S., is because the restaraunt/bar industry, does not have to pay its workers minimum wage.

The above and possibly the draconian labor laws
that deny workers their rights ?

Fujo - Workers don't have rights! A job is a privilege, not a right.

My father had a famous saying: "the only right the working man has is the right to quit."

Those "cotton picking" days are long gone and besides, someone in your neck of the woods if I am not mistaken was recently taken to the cleaners for $5m for skimping on waiters' tips .... helluva price for the so-called privilege

Fujo - Its real simple my friend! It took our country only a couple hundred years to become the wealthiest/most powerful country in the world - why you ask, its called "Free Market - Capitalism"! We have a "Bill of Rights", I've read it a couple of times, and it says NOTHING about one's right to a job, or your rights as an employee. I have the "right" to bear arms, I have the "right" to free speach, etc, but I DO NOT have the right to a job, employee benefits, HEALTH INSURANCE, retirement packages that lead the country to economic collapse (Oh, did I mention Greece?) employee rights, etc, etc.

I have the priviledge to seek employment, and I have the same priviledge to be employeed. Maybe the sooner the rest of the world learns these very BASIC rules of life, perhaps they will pull themselves out of economic ruin (Did I mention Greece?) Maybe ask yourself why it is that Europe/Africa have been "established" continents for hundreds/thousands of years longer than the U.S., but yet we sky-rocketed right past them all in economic growth, wealth, and power, and in a fraction of the time? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, just a willingness to accept reality/the truth!

quote:

And when it comes to tipping, then it looks like I am the hunters version of Ebenezer Scrooge when I see what some hunters use to tip on their Safaris

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

And when it comes to tipping, then it looks like I am the hunters version of Ebenezer Scrooge when I see what some hunters use to tip on their Safaris

I used to work for a big safari company and all the experienced PH`s would pull rank NOT to hunt with European hunters as they do not Tip as a rule.So rule of thumb they got all the Newbies, who didnt know the areas, or had little experience ~

quote:

Originally posted by Norwegianwoods:
The American way might be the best since Apple pie, but I still prefer how we do it in Norway

When it comes to being the perfect client, I guess I am far from that

I hate being pampered with and I for sure am not willing to pay extra for it.

I will not shoot from or close to the car, so more time will be spent walking around in the bush instead of filling up the skinning shed, stacking up big money in trophy fees for the outfitter.

I hate to just walk behind the PH waiting for him to put up the sticks so I can do the shooting.
I prefer to take the responsibility of the stalk myself when something interesting is spotted and this will probably result in even less animals shot.

And when it comes to tipping, then it looks like I am the hunters version of Ebenezer Scrooge when I see what some hunters use to tip on their Safaris

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

I'll say it again...the only "right" a working man has is the right to quit. If they don't like their employer...they have the right to quit and find a new one.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

I'll say it again...the only "right" a working man has is the right to quit. If they don't like their employer...they have the right to quit and find a new one.

Apparently that's HARD to understand for some folks, hey Fujo

What "rights" does the employee have, they we simpleton's are missing?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

I'll say it again...the only "right" a working man has is the right to quit. If they don't like their employer...they have the right to quit and find a new one.

Apparently that's HARD to understand for some folks, hey Fujo

What "rights" does the employee have, they we simpleton's are missing?

Aaron,

Do you have any employees? Trust me, they have plenty of rights right here in the good ol' USA.

Funny, I treat mine like I never want them to "exercise their right to quit."

They have made me a lot of money...

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

I'll say it again...the only "right" a working man has is the right to quit. If they don't like their employer...they have the right to quit and find a new one.

Apparently that's HARD to understand for some folks, hey Fujo

What "rights" does the employee have, they we simpleton's are missing?

Aaron,

Do you have any employees? Trust me, they have plenty of rights right here in the good ol' USA.

Funny, I treat mine like I never want them to "exercise their right to quit."

They have made me a lot of money...

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

I'll say it again...the only "right" a working man has is the right to quit. If they don't like their employer...they have the right to quit and find a new one.

Apparently that's HARD to understand for some folks, hey Fujo

What "rights" does the employee have, they we simpleton's are missing?

Aaron,

Do you have any employees? Trust me, they have plenty of rights right here in the good ol' USA.

Funny, I treat mine like I never want them to "exercise their right to quit."

They have made me a lot of money...

I do, and I too love em all! The longest one has been with me for 18 yrs now, and I'm just 39. I've never had one quit, except for when 2 of them moved to another state. Nothing harder to find than a guide, who's a professional killer, people-person, responsible, excellent judge of trophies, etc, etc. "Funny" you would insinuate I treat mine different than you? I don't recall the last time you hunted with me?

No doubt your employees have contributed to your success. But to also insinuate they alone made you lots of money, and you as the employer who created the business opportunity in the first place, took the risk to venture out on your own, took a financial risk to CREATE the opportunity that necessitated the "need" for employees, had nothing to do with it, is just plain silly!! You created the opportunity, they help facilitate its continued success.

Nope, I'm still not aware of any "rights" they have, except the right to leave at anytime! Unless of course you are referring to the "rights" afforded to unionized workers, who in the vast majority of cases nowadays, have exercised their "rights" to the point of bank-rupting many of the local/state/and federal agencies which they work for? To the point of financial collapse no less, which is now only a matter of time!

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Come along fellers, I did say WORKER'S RIGHTS and NOT THEIR RIGHT TO EMPLOYMENT - there's a whale of a difference between the two.
The argument was centered on the tips they were skimped - the restaurant industry is not obliged to meet the minimum wage and Mario, who is already "pretty well off" chose to short-change his employees (so the article says).
Bit low wouldn't you say?

A good number of posters on AR have screamed foul when there was talk of an outfitter or PH having done the same thing.
There has also been no amount of grief spewed out by others who have criticized outfitters for supposedly not paying proper wages - we have a minimum wage level for different classes of employment but most of us pay at least 15% more because we realize the minimum is a meager amount and the staff look forward to being tipped (obviously this would depend on the quality of service).
Be it known that staff in camp are fed, watered, dressed and given medical attention FOC.
So, having done the round of the park, the restaurant staff got screwed out of the larger slice of the tips, but it was OK for the owner to have done so because he's bust his ass getting a name for himself (with the sweat of others)and the staffers gotta keep their mouths shut because they don't have the right to object?

I'll say it again...the only "right" a working man has is the right to quit. If they don't like their employer...they have the right to quit and find a new one.

Apparently that's HARD to understand for some folks, hey Fujo

What "rights" does the employee have, they we simpleton's are missing?

Aaron,

Do you have any employees? Trust me, they have plenty of rights right here in the good ol' USA.

Funny, I treat mine like I never want them to "exercise their right to quit."

They have made me a lot of money...

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
Tipping was easy for me. I always asked my PH to do it and add it to the bill. Who would know better than he (1) who deserved to be tipped and (2) how much was enough, without causing tip inflation amongst the staff?

I think my PH's idea of a perfect client was Stavros Niarchos (Aristotle Onassis' rival in the shipping business). He never ceased to go on about how he had his mail flown in every day and provided champagne with dinner every night

__________________________

John H.

..
NitroExpress.com - the net's double rifle forum

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
fujptupu, is refering the recent court case where a federal judge (don't know his back ground i e who appointed him) found against Mario Batallie (sp) and his partners regarding a method of tipping to their restaurants employees. I believe Mario is a partner or full owner of 17 high scale restaurants. I am not familar with the details but it would seem they used a pooled method of tip distribution. Now talk about an american sucess story Mario has one. Another example of hard work not only physical but also mental. Unfornately most people thing of hard work as being only physical - not so.

DOJ:

Chef Mario with his restaurant chains has made mega bucks - obviously confirms him as a successful person in his profession.

The people who made him successful were the army of employees, sous chefs to cleaners and of course, the paying customer.
Without his army of employees, Mario or any other person for that matter would not be able to conduct their business; so to say that it is a privilege is hardly true.


His privileged staff were on a basic salary, similar to those guys you find in a hunting camp who rely heavily on the tips they receive from clients.

Mario and his partners were indeed pooling tips (which is fair enough) but not so that they keep 10% for themselves

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
fujptupu, is refering the recent court case where a federal judge (don't know his back ground i e who appointed him) found against Mario Batallie (sp) and his partners regarding a method of tipping to their restaurants employees. I believe Mario is a partner or full owner of 17 high scale restaurants. I am not familar with the details but it would seem they used a pooled method of tip distribution. Now talk about an american sucess story Mario has one. Another example of hard work not only physical but also mental. Unfornately most people thing of hard work as being only physical - not so.

DOJ:

Chef Mario with his restaurant chains has made mega bucks - obviously confirms him as a successful person in his profession.

The people who made him successful were the army of employees, sous chefs to cleaners and of course, the paying customer.
Without his army of employees, Mario or any other person for that matter would not be able to conduct their business; so to say that it is a privilege is hardly true.


His privileged staff were on a basic salary, similar to those guys you find in a hunting camp who rely heavily on the tips they receive from clients.

Mario and his partners were indeed pooling tips (which is fair enough) but not so that they keep 10% for themselves

Dear fujotupu:

Aaaahhh, I see that you have never started up, nor run a business yourself.

I've pooled tips as a waiter, and run my own businesses, too. I had my first payroll at age 17, and I'm still friends with those guys 32 years later.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Have you ever had a trackers cell phone ring during stalk.

quote:

Chris this is aside from this go around. Did you prefer to pool tips or each retain their own?

quote:

Read carefully to where I said the owner kept 10% for himself - you are therefore of the opinion that this is fair and correct?

quote:

Sorry to disappoint you but I happen to own 2 companies and I don't short-change my staff either.

Pooling tips is just fine, where have you read that I was against it?
Read carefully to where I said the owner kept 10% for himself - you are therefore of the opinion that this is fair and correct?

quote:

Very informative about the under paid resaurant staff. He sets up hidden cameras all around the restautant including the kitchen, storage areas etc.. Shows how the staff steals from owners & customers, for people not in the business and those in the business it is a real eye opener.

quote:

It has nothing to do with pay some of the culpruts were the managers.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

It has nothing to do with pay some of the culpruts were the managers.

Or indeed hunting in Africa.