quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
not sure about the statistics however your use of the word "stopper" insinuates the rifle would be used in a charge scenario- it will not have the penetration on elephant , and greatly limits the margin for error on all the other 4. bell would have used side brain shots and heart lung shots with the lighter calibres on elephants - making apparent the difference between stopping and killing - can the big 5 be killed by the calibres you mention , yes , but not in a charge scenario.

i hope that this helps your argument !

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:

30-06 or a .338 WM are all a guy would need for a Big 5 stopper rifle (since Bell and others could kill elephants with 6.5's and 7's).

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
not sure about the statistics however your use of the word "stopper" insinuates the rifle would be used in a charge scenario- it will not have the penetration on elephant , and greatly limits the margin for error on all the other 4. bell would have used side brain shots and heart lung shots with the lighter calibres on elephants - making apparent the difference between stopping and killing - can the big 5 be killed by the calibres you mention , yes , but not in a charge scenario.

i hope that this helps your argument !

quote:

I'm also thinking of just walking away from it, letting stupid be as stupid does.

quote:

Originally posted by oupa:

quote:

I'm also thinking of just walking away from it, letting stupid be as stupid does.

Sounds like the only solution not to mention the best one. "...you prove nothing by besting a fool..."

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:
Does anyone know of an actual statistical record of how many hunters/PH's have actually been killed while hunting the Big 5?

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
Strut10, if you are looking for hard facts, PM me. I will pass on Dr. Kevin "Doctari" Robertson's email address to you. He has shot, and I speak under correction, over 500 buffalo. He is also the author of " The perfect Shot" guide for shot placement on African Game. A must have for anyone thinking of hunting in Africa. He's knowledge about ballistics are unmatched when it comes to dangerous game. He will be able to give you all the nitty gritty details about Ballistic coefficients,KO values and so on for your argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:
Does anyone know of an actual statistical record of how many hunters/PH's have actually been killed while hunting the Big 5?

I doubt, assuming some sort of statistics are even kept, that they would indicate with what and by whom the animal that killed them was shot, if at all. PH's killed by animals wounded by clients would not add any useful information to the argument. And poorly shot animals, whether by the client or the PH, don't tell one anything about how good the caliber (and what about the bullet?) may or may not be. Lastly, sectional density does not indicate a measurement of penetration. A 300 grain .375 caliber bullet has good sectional density, but so does a 175 grain 7mm bullet, but they don't penetrate equally. I won't add terminal velocity into the equation, but it also matters. By the way, how much does a cloud weigh?