quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
do you really think SCI is going to give an accounting of what they do with money raised in light of $200k expense accounts for the president, corporate credit cards for EC members, and $1400 dinners for officers in Geneva? good luck on your quest, Don Quiotix( sic??)

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
Steve,

Most of us "cheerleaders" have lives and businesses as well as in general things to do that get in the way of debating people like you with infinite time in circular arguments. What have you done for conservation, education or hunter advocacy lately Steve? Get involved or expect to be dismissed with the rest of the 2 cents crowd.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
And when you're done with that, how about getting back to the original subject of what happened to the US$1M that was apparently raised for lion conservation a year ago and doesn't appear to have been spent?

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
And when you're done with that, how about getting back to the original subject of what happened to the US$1M that was apparently raised for lion conservation a year ago and doesn't appear to have been spent?

As previously stated when I have time I will. Conservation of the African lion is something I care about. I'll let you know what I find out glory or warts.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
do you really think SCI is going to give an accounting of what they do with money raised in light of $200k expense accounts for the president, corporate credit cards for EC members, and $1400 dinners for officers in Geneva? good luck on your quest, Don Quiotix( sic??)

Good Hunting,

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Have you all also noticed that the specific question Aaron Mike had asked seems to have been ignored completely?

What have you personally done to try to make SCI the kind of organization that you want it to be? If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Mike,

You really have hit rock bottom now.

What can ONE member, who lives thousands of miles in another country, do to change an organization so convoluted in its running, that so many of its own members, in the same country that SCI is, have not been able to achieve??

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem .

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Have you all also noticed that the specific question Aaron Mike had asked seems to have been ignored completely?

What have you personally done to try to make SCI the kind of organization that you want it to be? If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Mike,

You really have hit rock bottom now.

What can ONE member, who lives thousands of miles in another country, do to change an organization so convoluted in its running, that so many of its own members, in the same country that SCI is, have not been able to achieve??

What a pitiful cop out. But at least you answered the question, sort of. The answer is "Not a damn thing." Apparently you live too far away to do something constructive but not far enough away to not be critical.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Have you all also noticed that the specific question Aaron Mike had asked seems to have been ignored completely?

What have you personally done to try to make SCI the kind of organization that you want it to be? If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Mike,

You really have hit rock bottom now.

What can ONE member, who lives thousands of miles in another country, do to change an organization so convoluted in its running, that so many of its own members, in the same country that SCI is, have not been able to achieve??

What a pitiful cop out. But at least you answered the question, sort of. The answer is "Not a damn thing." Apparently you live too far away to do something constructive but not far enough away to not be critical.

Mike,

You are epitomizing the SCI apologists mantra.

You cannot provide any reasonable excuse for al their shenanigans, and you are trying to divert the attention away from what we are asking for.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
While we are on the subject of questions, an interesting question for those that are some of SCI's harshest critics might be, other than paying your membership fee, what have you done personally to make SCI the kind of organization you would want it to be?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
While we are on the subject of questions, an interesting question for those that are some of SCI's harshest critics might be, other than paying your membership fee, what have you done personally to make SCI the kind of organization you would want it to be?

Mike - Again, I don't feel as of yet that I personally am being a critic of SCI. That could/could not come later, but I'm still waiting for info to decide my opinion in this matter.

However, your question is a fair/valid point! I can speak now only for myself - and in the name of being respectful to others I will not name anyone specifically, but here's exactly what I have tried to do. On several occasions over the past 24 months - I and Dr. Lane Easter as well. Have tried desperately to help SCI with the Lion Conservation issue. I have in fact on 3 different occasions got the "RIGHT" person on the horn/email, with the exception of one of those conversations - it was made pretty clear that neither my thoughts/opinions, advice, or input was of much interest to SCI. Frankly, it was pretty obvious that my status level was not high enough up the SCI ladder to be taken very seriously (quite the opposite reaction I get from DSC to be honest). The 3rd call as referenced earlier - I was given great lip service, told I would be contacted in 2 days to schedule a conference call, and that was the last I ever heard from that person again??? So, my lack of involvement with SCI - at least on the part of lion conservation is not from my lack of effort, but rather a lack of reciprocation from SCI.

Honestly Mike, let me be blunt! I know very little in life, hell man - to this day I have only a high school education, nothing more. But on the flip side of that - I know hunting, the business of hunting, the business of hunting in Africa, the African Lion and the Conservation of the African Lion - much better than most. When I talk to some of these folks, and see just how little they know themselves about the lion - but yet look down their nose at me cause I haven't vaulted up the SCI awards/status ladder, its really irritating! Someone like Dr. Lane Easter and myself, really could have provided a lot of helpful advice/input, but every time we try - its just down right offensive, the interaction we get? Certainly at least me anyway. And Mike, as you have seen here on AR for years now - I have very thick skin! So me saying this now, isn't cause little Aaron got his feeling hurt. The only time I ever take offense is if someone is threatening my family, or my livelihood - otherwise it doesn't phase me. So no, I'm not saying this out of spite, I'm simply telling you how its gone - when I have tried to help. Its been made clear, my help is not needed or wanted. And why so?? Hell, myself and/or Lane - might just have been able to provide some knowledge/experience in the matter, that could have been very helpful?

Interestingly enough, just the opposite reaction at DSC? In less than 2 hours, simply via text messages mostly - at last year's DSC convention we were able to get the DSC President, Executive Director (Ben Carter-Wonderful Guy) Vice-President, and a dozen other important folks with valuable input, to a Thursday morning emergency meeting on the status of the lion and its impending doom. Now of course we didn't all totally agree on all points, etc. But those in power did listen, did evaluate, and act to the best of their ability - on the info provided to them. And they did so within 2 weeks!!! DSC put the lion's needs ahead of their own, just my opinion.

So Mike, folks can say what they will - but I am basing my personal opinions on my own personal experiences. I have tried to help, my help wasn't wanted/needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
While we are on the subject of questions, an interesting question for those that are some of SCI's harshest critics might be, other than paying your membership fee, what have you done personally to make SCI the kind of organization you would want it to be?

Mike - Again, I don't feel as of yet that I personally am being a critic of SCI. That could/could not come later, but I'm still waiting for info to decide my opinion in this matter.

However, your question is a fair/valid point! I can speak now only for myself - and in the name of being respectful to others I will not name anyone specifically, but here's exactly what I have tried to do. On several occasions over the past 24 months - I and Dr. Lane Easter as well. Have tried desperately to help SCI with the Lion Conservation issue. I have in fact on 3 different occasions got the "RIGHT" person on the horn/email, with the exception of one of those conversations - it was made pretty clear that neither my thoughts/opinions, advice, or input was of much interest to SCI. Frankly, it was pretty obvious that my status level was not high enough up the SCI ladder to be taken very seriously (quite the opposite reaction I get from DSC to be honest). The 3rd call as referenced earlier - I was given great lip service, told I would be contacted in 2 days to schedule a conference call, and that was the last I ever heard from that person again??? So, my lack of involvement with SCI - at least on the part of lion conservation is not from my lack of effort, but rather a lack of reciprocation from SCI.

Honestly Mike, let me be blunt! I know very little in life, hell man - to this day I have only a high school education, nothing more. But on the flip side of that - I know hunting, the business of hunting, the business of hunting in Africa, the African Lion and the Conservation of the African Lion - much better than most. When I talk to some of these folks, and see just how little they know themselves about the lion - but yet look down their nose at me cause I haven't vaulted up the SCI awards/status ladder, its really irritating! Someone like Dr. Lane Easter and myself, really could have provided a lot of helpful advice/input, but every time we try - its just down right offensive, the interaction we get? Certainly at least me anyway. And Mike, as you have seen here on AR for years now - I have very thick skin! So me saying this now, isn't cause little Aaron got his feeling hurt. The only time I ever take offense is if someone is threatening my family, or my livelihood - otherwise it doesn't phase me. So no, I'm not saying this out of spite, I'm simply telling you how its gone - when I have tried to help. Its been made clear, my help is not needed or wanted. And why so?? Hell, myself and/or Lane - might just have been able to provide some knowledge/experience in the matter, that could have been very helpful?

Interestingly enough, just the opposite reaction at DSC? In less than 2 hours, simply via text messages mostly - at last year's DSC convention we were able to get the DSC President, Executive Director (Ben Carter-Wonderful Guy) Vice-President, and a dozen other important folks with valuable input, to a Thursday morning emergency meeting on the status of the lion and its impending doom. Now of course we didn't all totally agree on all points, etc. But those in power did listen, did evaluate, and act to the best of their ability - on the info provided to them. And they did so within 2 weeks!!! DSC put the lion's needs ahead of their own, just my opinion.

So Mike, folks can say what they will - but I am basing my personal opinions on my own personal experiences. I have tried to help, my help wasn't wanted/needed.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You are working to make a difference too Lane. I commend your efforts.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
David that suggestion has been tried in the past and the 990 (good enough for the IRS) does not give enough detail for the sideline pot shooters.

I have been told it is enough for even one person to question SCI to support the on going diatribe on this web site. As to everything Steve has done it all appears to be in his self interest.

SCI will never be able to provide enough information to satisfy the half a dozen or so bitchers on AR.

Steve I know doing a building project does take ones time as I went thru that last year, oh yea I also continued my practice and found time to hunt Ethiopia for a few weeks, where there are no penned trophy animals.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actually if I was Saeed...I would be very reluctant to have my name even remotely associated with SCI...until the act is cleaned up.

For a man such as Saeed...the association would only lump him into "the Club". A place he obviously does NOT want to be.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actually if I was Saeed...I would be very reluctant to have my name even remotely associated with SCI...until the act is cleaned up.

For a man such as Saeed...the association would only lump him into "the Club". A place he obviously does NOT want to be.

I beg to differ. When you have a battle on your hands, that is precisely the time when you need men of character and fortitude to step up. Just think of all the things that would be far worse in the world if good people sat the fight out.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actually if I was Saeed...I would be very reluctant to have my name even remotely associated with SCI...until the act is cleaned up.

For a man such as Saeed...the association would only lump him into "the Club". A place he obviously does NOT want to be.

I beg to differ. When you have a battle on your hands, that is precisely the time when you need men of character and fortitude to step up. Just think of all the things that would be far worse in the world if good people sat the fight out.

Mike,
After all the shellacings I have taken on here over the lion and all the rude names I have been called by fellow AR members...surely you know I feel the same way.

That said...I have been down the road of trying to work with SCI and they stuck the proverbial stick where the sun don't shine and then broke it off.

Why not recommend to Saeed that he should expend his efforts where he know's they will be put to good use...an his name won't be tarnished just by association.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actually if I was Saeed...I would be very reluctant to have my name even remotely associated with SCI...until the act is cleaned up.

For a man such as Saeed...the association would only lump him into "the Club". A place he obviously does NOT want to be.

I beg to differ. When you have a battle on your hands, that is precisely the time when you need men of character and fortitude to step up. Just think of all the things that would be far worse in the world if good people sat the fight out.

Mike,
After all the shellacings I have taken on here over the lion and all the rude names I have been called by fellow AR members...surely you know I feel the same way.

That said...I have been down the road of trying to work with SCI and they stuck the proverbial stick where the sun don't shine and then broke it off.

Why not recommend to Saeed that he should expend his efforts where he know's they will be put to good use...an his name won't be tarnished just by association.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Steve, I don't think anyone posting here can provide the detail of information you are requesting. Maybe you should take your request directly to SCI. If they can't or won't satisfy your request then (if it were me) go your merry way and do not sup[port the organization. This AR broken record has been turned way too many times.

It was brought to this site that SCI raised (more difficult than to spend) and all it brought were more complaints form a few.

It would be nice to have people say good as a pat on the back as that does more good as they say - sugar draws more ants than vinegar.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actually if I was Saeed...I would be very reluctant to have my name even remotely associated with SCI...until the act is cleaned up.

For a man such as Saeed...the association would only lump him into "the Club". A place he obviously does NOT want to be.

I beg to differ. When you have a battle on your hands, that is precisely the time when you need men of character and fortitude to step up. Just think of all the things that would be far worse in the world if good people sat the fight out.

Mike,
After all the shellacings I have taken on here over the lion and all the rude names I have been called by fellow AR members...surely you know I feel the same way.

That said...I have been down the road of trying to work with SCI and they stuck the proverbial stick where the sun don't shine and then broke it off.

Why not recommend to Saeed that he should expend his efforts where he know's they will be put to good use...an his name won't be tarnished just by association.

Lane, if that is where we are, where good people should sit the fight out rather than engage due to a fear of being associated with the effort then let's just declare defeat and move on.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Aaron, you are in the arena. You are someone working to make a difference. All a person can do is try. What I have contempt for is the person that simply declares defeat from the outset, throws up their hands and declares they can make no difference, then proceeds to simply use their time and talents to be critical. To have tried and failed is far better in my mind than to have never tried at all. Your efforts are to be respected and should serve as a model to others. Not so much for the others that have decided to give up before they even started.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
While we are on the subject of questions, an interesting question for those that are some of SCI's harshest critics might be, other than paying your membership fee, what have you done personally to make SCI the kind of organization you would want it to be?

Mike - Again, I don't feel as of yet that I personally am being a critic of SCI. That could/could not come later, but I'm still waiting for info to decide my opinion in this matter.

However, your question is a fair/valid point! I can speak now only for myself - and in the name of being respectful to others I will not name anyone specifically, but here's exactly what I have tried to do. On several occasions over the past 24 months - I and Dr. Lane Easter as well. Have tried desperately to help SCI with the Lion Conservation issue. I have in fact on 3 different occasions got the "RIGHT" person on the horn/email, with the exception of one of those conversations - it was made pretty clear that neither my thoughts/opinions, advice, or input was of much interest to SCI. Frankly, it was pretty obvious that my status level was not high enough up the SCI ladder to be taken very seriously (quite the opposite reaction I get from DSC to be honest). The 3rd call as referenced earlier - I was given great lip service, told I would be contacted in 2 days to schedule a conference call, and that was the last I ever heard from that person again??? So, my lack of involvement with SCI - at least on the part of lion conservation is not from my lack of effort, but rather a lack of reciprocation from SCI.

Honestly Mike, let me be blunt! I know very little in life, hell man - to this day I have only a high school education, nothing more. But on the flip side of that - I know hunting, the business of hunting, the business of hunting in Africa, the African Lion and the Conservation of the African Lion - much better than most. When I talk to some of these folks, and see just how little they know themselves about the lion - but yet look down their nose at me cause I haven't vaulted up the SCI awards/status ladder, its really irritating! Someone like Dr. Lane Easter and myself, really could have provided a lot of helpful advice/input, but every time we try - its just down right offensive, the interaction we get? Certainly at least me anyway. And Mike, as you have seen here on AR for years now - I have very thick skin! So me saying this now, isn't cause little Aaron got his feeling hurt. The only time I ever take offense is if someone is threatening my family, or my livelihood - otherwise it doesn't phase me. So no, I'm not saying this out of spite, I'm simply telling you how its gone - when I have tried to help. Its been made clear, my help is not needed or wanted. And why so?? Hell, myself and/or Lane - might just have been able to provide some knowledge/experience in the matter, that could have been very helpful?

Interestingly enough, just the opposite reaction at DSC? In less than 2 hours, simply via text messages mostly - at last year's DSC convention we were able to get the DSC President, Executive Director (Ben Carter-Wonderful Guy) Vice-President, and a dozen other important folks with valuable input, to a Thursday morning emergency meeting on the status of the lion and its impending doom. Now of course we didn't all totally agree on all points, etc. But those in power did listen, did evaluate, and act to the best of their ability - on the info provided to them. And they did so within 2 weeks!!! DSC put the lion's needs ahead of their own, just my opinion.

So Mike, folks can say what they will - but I am basing my personal opinions on my own personal experiences. I have tried to help, my help wasn't wanted/needed.

+1. Exactly how it went down. I too was promised a conference call for Aaron and I...even given a tentative date and time. They welched and I could never get further contact.

DSC listened, asked questions, deliberated, and ACTED.

Another person with DSC who should get credit for lion conservation is Chris Hudson.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actually if I was Saeed...I would be very reluctant to have my name even remotely associated with SCI...until the act is cleaned up.

For a man such as Saeed...the association would only lump him into "the Club". A place he obviously does NOT want to be.

I beg to differ. When you have a battle on your hands, that is precisely the time when you need men of character and fortitude to step up. Just think of all the things that would be far worse in the world if good people sat the fight out.

Mike,
After all the shellacings I have taken on here over the lion and all the rude names I have been called by fellow AR members...surely you know I feel the same way.

That said...I have been down the road of trying to work with SCI and they stuck the proverbial stick where the sun don't shine and then broke it off.

Why not recommend to Saeed that he should expend his efforts where he know's they will be put to good use...an his name won't be tarnished just by association.

Lane, if that is where we are, where good people should sit the fight out rather than engage due to a fear of being associated with the effort then let's just declare defeat and move on.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Steve, I don't think anyone posting here can provide the detail of information you are requesting. Maybe you should take your request directly to SCI. If they can't or won't satisfy your request then (if it were me) go your merry way and do not sup[port the organization. This AR broken record has been turned way too many times.

It was brought to this site that SCI raised (more difficult than to spend) and all it brought were more complaints form a few.

It would be nice to have people say good as a pat on the back as that does more good as they say - sugar draws more ants than vinegar.

Ed

That's the very point I'm trying to make....... No one here can or will come up with those figures and that's what bugs the shite out of me because they should be readily available just as they are with other charities etc but the fact that they're not readily available won't stop me asking the questions about said figures.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Aaron, first one must distinguish between SCI and SCI Foundation. SCI is a lobbying org a 401(c)(4). The SCI Foundation is a 401(c)(3) a charitable organization. When people accept that fact and address problems as such then maybe people can agree. I still don't know where any charity gives the details that are ask for here.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Not specifically Lion but here's some SCI Foundation information easily googled.

SCI Foundation

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Not specifically Lion but here's some SCI Foundation information easily googled.

SCI Foundation

I'm sure it's interesting but if it doesn't answer the same questions I've been asking for years, it's not what I and others would like to know.