I am on my way home from a pretty successful hunt in Zim with Martin Pieters Safaris. I will file a report when I get back. I do have to relate something that I observed while there that is extremely bothersome to me.

First, let me say that like many, Martin sells some quota to others. We had a PH in camp , along with his client that were there under such an arrangement.

The PH was shockingly arrogant. He did insane things. For example , he had no knowledge of the area yet refused advice of those who were intimately knowledgeable of the area. He made a comment to the effect that he didn't need advice . He had been a PH for 20 years. I won't go into it all. I would NEVER go with his guy.

The client seemed fine the day they arrived. I talked to him. He was from the south.


By the second day, he was a totally different person. I can most certainly see why he would have a problem with his PH. However, when it got to the point that some person would say good morning to him, he would turn and walk away without saying a word. This guy was down right rude. It was ridiculous. Then came the crowning blow.

As Mr. Personality was packing, he could not find 2 hats. He instantly accused the staff of stealing them. He created a huge spectacle . It was shocking. He left the staff a miniscile tip and clearly conveyed why it was so small. They left.

When Mr. Personality got to his hotel that night he found his hats. The PH phoned and told the camp manager.

I am still shocked at the behavior of this guy. It was embarrassing to me to see this kind of behavior. I am reminded of why I don't like to have others in camp.

I feel for all operators who have to put up with things like this. I probably should not post this . It bothers me so much, I decided to post anyway .

Once again proof there are more horse's asses than horses! Just an excuse to not tip.

There always seems to be someone that doesn't know how to make lemonade when they are handed lemons. Or someone mad at the world for whatever reason that just has to make everybody else as miserable as they are. Sorry you had to be part of it.

Do you think people in the USA are getting nastier, ruder, and more selfish.

That old "Midwestern" congenial attitude seems to be fading from our country, or am I wrong?

Sounds familiar. Did the guy use travelers checks? We might know who he is!

Just saying....

Sounds like the PH & Client were a PERFECT match Larry


Too bad they had to be in camp when you were there my friend

quote:

Do you think people in the USA are getting nastier, ruder, and more selfish.

That old "Midwestern" congenial attitude seems to be fading from our country, or am I wrong?

Yes I do think that people are getting more rude and selfish. But there has always been the over privileged self entitled types floating around too.

Larry,


I always prefer to hunt alone. How many times have I got on great with hunters outside of a hunting camp environment only to see them turn into Mr. Hyde in camp. Too many. Hunting is just too important an experience to risk with the addition of random humans.

Lastly you should consider posting the PHs name and the client. You do poor service to traveling hunters and to outfitters by being not stating the names. As a traveling hunter, I would like this PH's name. I also know that many outfitters would love to build a database of prick clients, because life is very short.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Do you think people in the USA are getting nastier, ruder, and more selfish.

That old "Midwestern" congenial attitude seems to be fading from our country, or am I wrong?

Yes, especially the boys who think high school behavior is manly. 100% agree.

Larry,

Had you heard of this PH before? It might be helpful to others planning a trip to Zim if you named him.

As far as the client is concerned we always try and get camp to ourselves when possible.



Cheers
Jim

quote:

Had you heard of this PH before? It might be helpful to others planning a trip to Zim if you named him.

As far as the client is concerned we always try and get camp to ourselves when possible.

Us too!

We where thown in with some real nasties in one of HHKs camps in 09...... ti made things VERY awkward.

I was just in the Omay with Matin Pieters outfit his staff was excellent in every way. I can't imagine any problems they bent over backwards for us.



.

Shared a camp once for a few days. Never, never, never, ever again.

Hi Larry,

Does the PH's first name start with a "T"

And was the Client from a Southern state that starts with an "L"

Life is to short to be grumpy, when you are to be having fun...

My experiences with other hunters in camp have generally been positive, especially when they are from countries other than the US. Those usually have interesting stuff to talk about, or at least different. I did experience a PH from hell in a bush camp in Moz. He was loud, abusive of the camp staff, and worse. My PH and I did a pretty good job of ignoring him. He was an Afrikaner, so Americans have no corner on boorishness.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Had you heard of this PH before? It might be helpful to others planning a trip to Zim if you named him.

As far as the client is concerned we always try and get camp to ourselves when possible.

Us too!

We where thown in with some real nasties in one of HHKs camps in 09...... ti made things VERY awkward.

I was just in the Omay with Matin Pieters outfit his staff was excellent in every way. I can't imagine any problems they bent over backwards for us.



.

I left the Omay this morning . I completely agree. Martin's staff was fine. The problem people were those who purchased quota from Martin.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bwana338:
Hi Larry,

Does the PH's first name start with a "T"

And was the Client from a Southern state that starts with an "L"[/QUOTE
No and no.

I have yet to spend over 1 night with others in camp & they were a lot of fun. Hopefully they thought the same of me.
I definitely understand not wanting to share a camp with others even those we know.
I just shared an antelope camp last week with a friend & 2 others from Alaska, 1 guy was a little boisterous, but turned out to be ok. The other was a gentleman through & through. He & his wife stayed in their motor home along with 2 well behaved Dobermans, she was a sweetheart & I told her I was stealing the Dobermans.
I had 1 of the staff tick me off pretty bad in Zim in '11, the rest were very good, I tipped them all in 1 lump sum & was told I was very generous. No need to punish the good ones over 1 bad 1.
Larry, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with those 2 clowns, but I still believe there are FAR more good people out there than bad.

Cecil:

I agree. I am just venting.

Larry thats why i guide a client at a time .I have with another outfitters a big dove shooting ranch and a big game and fishing lodge in Esquina Corrientes Argentina where we host large groups .But my experienced clients avoids groups and always ask to hunt alone .When i hunt in another countries i do the same .Hope to someday host you and take some partriges together my friend .Its a pitty but there are many new rich bad manners people that are looking at our passion as an status gainer activity .Hope he didnt disturb so much in you safari .

Sounds like the two guys the PH and client were made for each other. Hope Martin steers clear of the Ph.

Mike

Twice I shared a camp for a few days. The first time everytime I shot a decent trophy the other hunter turned obnoxious. He wanted to turn everything into a contest.
The other experience was with a hunter who got rip roaring drunk every night and hung over every morning. In between he was a decent guy. All he wanted to shoot were baboons. Strange!

Martin definitely has some issues with some of his PH associations so this doesn't surprise me. I had a completely horrible failed hunt several years back while 2 others in my group had great hunts with great PHs. My hunt was a total disaster (primarily related to a terrible PH but many other issues as well).

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
I have yet to spend over 1 night with others in camp & they were a lot of fun. Hopefully they thought the same of me.
I definitely understand not wanting to share a camp with others even those we know.
I just shared an antelope camp last week with a friend & 2 others from Alaska, 1 guy was a little boisterous , but turned out to be ok. The other was a gentleman through & through. He & his wife stayed in their motor home along with 2 well behaved Dobermans, she was a sweetheart & I told her I was stealing the Dobermans.
I had 1 of the staff tick me off pretty bad in Zim in '11, the rest were very good, I tipped them all in 1 lump sum & was told I was very generous. No need to punish the good ones over 1 bad 1.
Larry, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with those 2 clowns, but I still believe there are FAR more good people out there than bad.

For the record....that wasn't me.

I always specify that I am solo in camp....ALWAYS. However, there was one time that, due to a last minute change by the preceding client, I wound up with an older couple in camp for a day. Nicest people I had ever met and didn't interfere with my hunting at all. I had a bit of luck...but have no intention of pushing it.

Larry, Sorry your safari was tainted with those two!

I must just be lucky, because out of all the camps I’ve been in only, one camp, where there was a problem with another hunter or PH/Guide.

That one was a bad one though. It happened in a bear camp in Ontario, Canada, and the bad guy was a bow hunting client from Michigan. He accused the owner of the hunting company of purposely dropping him on a bait that he knew was no good and saving the active baits for the other clients who were hunting with rifles. Because, according to the client, the owner didn’t like bow hunters but took his money anyway.

Some seem to always blame others for their failure to bag. Going home empty is just part of hunting, a little cross we all must bear! It seemed to me this guy wanted a bear tied to a tree for him.

This got dangerous when the owner’s wife told the hunter to pack up and get out, and told him, if she had to, she would get her 357 magnum and shoot him if he didn’t leave the next morning.

All this happened in a crowded lodge with other hunters eating supper. This ruined our hunt when the problem started again the next morning, we decided to pack up and head back to Thunder Bay to fly back home, after only three days of a seven day hunt. I have no idea how that turned out after we left. The last thing we wanted to do is being involved in a gun fight in Canada.

I have never had problem one, in Africa, but all my hunts there have been “one on one” except one “two on one” with a very close friend!

On our Africa trip there was another gentleman and his daughter in camp and they were very nice. When hunting we never saw them.

I have hunted with/around others that were not so good.

I found that "my" mindset had more to do with how it went with the not so good than what they did. If I did not like what they were doing I would just distance myself as much as possible.

I found it better to not allow their poor attitude effect my attitude and experience than to dwell on them. Although it is harder the same goes for the PH/guide. If possible I would change PH/guide. But if all else fails try to make the best of it then never have anything to do with them.

All that said I usually can tell "Money-Made-Hunters" from "Born Hunters" and avoid the first when possible in and out of hunting camp. It only takes a short time to figure out the rude, you-owe-me, I am special and/or better than you, arrogant, I have all the latest and most gadgets types. I try to avoid them. I am an old school type hunter and do it for the enjoyment I get from hunting. I am not competing with others and do not need to empress anyone. If I am happy with the animal that is all that matters to me. My hunting/shooting will speak for themselves.
This does not mean I do not like to show my animals to others. Just no need to shove it down their throats or brag. I do not want the animal tied to a tree to shoot then act like it was a "hunt".

Off the soap box for this old guy and old school hunter.

Not making excuses but do you think the attitude and actions of the PH had rubbed-off on the client?

I have seen many long-lasting friendships and hunting partnerships begin in a wilderness camp with two separate parties. Most of the time it works, sometimes not.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
I have yet to spend over 1 night with others in camp & they were a lot of fun. Hopefully they thought the same of me.
I definitely understand not wanting to share a camp with others even those we know.
I just shared an antelope camp last week with a friend & 2 others from Alaska, 1 guy was a little boisterous , but turned out to be ok. The other was a gentleman through & through. He & his wife stayed in their motor home along with 2 well behaved Dobermans, she was a sweetheart & I told her I was stealing the Dobermans.
I had 1 of the staff tick me off pretty bad in Zim in '11, the rest were very good, I tipped them all in 1 lump sum & was told I was very generous. No need to punish the good ones over 1 bad 1.
Larry, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with those 2 clowns, but I still believe there are FAR more good people out there than bad.

For the record....that wasn't me.

Jim;

I know....you were the ones with the Dobermans!!! But I don't know about Brett!

Yep had a PH like that myself once. Not much fun.

I specify exclusive camp when possible.

I have shared camp with some great guys, hunters and PH's, and with a couple of a holes or each sort. The amount of friction and trouble an a hole will create is out of all proportion to the amount of time you need to be near him. Best to avoid that potential for the a hole with an exclusive camp, when possible.

JPK

I have always enjoyed the company of those with whom I have hunted. Sharing a camp some years ago with Henry Mills, founder of Mills Fleet Farm, convinced me I could start my own business. Sure glad I didn't demand an exclusive camp.

Me, I get along with everyone ;-)
Naah, just never had a problem as a client. Seems like other hunters and PH's were always great company
Had some winners when I was young guide.
Had ex LA cop ( I couldn't make this up ) in CO elk hunting and he knew it all , was a sharpshooter and so forth and wouldn't listen to me for nothing.
One time elk was coming into a wind and I wanted to move but he wouldn't ...
Then one night he decided that horses were to the left instead of right.
Ha, we of course couldn't find the horses and then he accused me of getting him lost and took off down hill.
So I just followed him and on the bottom he freaked out so I told him to shoot three times. Ha Ha, we were just around the corner from the camp but he had no clue.
Then comes voices and lights and outfitter and another guide coming to the rescue.
I really had to hold back from not bursting out.
Of course he accused me of not knowing what I'm doing, being inept and told boss he wanted another guide.
So, two days later he wanted out, because the guide was just as bad as me.
It was crazy on that trip and of course he also missed two easy elk. Within 100 yards and standing.
I swear, some of these stories couldn't be further from the truth in a way, but they sure happened.
Makes for some fond memories

Interesting topic.

My experience with guide hunts is very limited.

One hunt in British Columbia for black bear & mule deer.

I arrived in camp & met 2 South African clients who were on their last day. They had a successful hunt and were drinking heavily & one guy was a real blow hard who claimed to be a PH & hunted lions etc. Glad they left camp the next day.

Then we had a group of 8 people from Washington State - family & friends ranging from about 35 years old to a 96 year old WW2 veteran. They were a great group of regular people. Very welcoming & friendly. The older gentleman had a 264 Win Mag Mod 70 that he had with him in Japan. A Jap POW engraved the entire rifle including part of the barrel!

The group was lead by this guys son - in his 50s. We have kept touch over the years & they have even invited me to join their annual group hunt!

All my other guided hunts were small affairs & not comparable.

i have shared camps with a number of different parties. but they were winding up their hunts in the next day or 2 or i was winding up mine in the next day or 2. never a problem....in fact, i enjoyed the experience but maybe i was lucky. the Danish guy i met in Cameroon( coincidentally an AR member) as i was out bound and he was inbound was a helluva nice fellow. he invite me for a visit. long story short, i am going to Denmark next Sept to spend a few days with him on the north west coast, then we are driving to Poland for a red stag, boar, and roe deer hunt with locals that he knows in the area.... always better to be lucky than good, i suppose.

Having been a career PH and now hunting for pleasure with my family I prefer exclusivity in a camp and will not book if we don't have exclusivity. I am sure we do miss out on meeting some good people but we also eliminate having special family time being ruined by the likes that Larry describes. Our hunting is "our" recreation time and sharing camp with unpleasant people or PH's make it anything but fun and enjoyable.

I highly recommend that if at all possible you book exclusive camps and areas

I was hunting Mule Deer in the Texas Panhandle a few years ago. The land owner required a "guide" per hunter. Well, my "guide" had just seen the property for the first time right before dusk the evening before the hunt.

His spot and stalk method was sneaking up on the ravines in his loud ass Dodge Cummins diesel. I kept wanting to tell him it wouldn't work unless we wake them up from a midday slumber. Yes, this was the approach at first light, as well.

That was money down the urinal.

Although I didn't know the property better than my guide, I could've had a better hunt on my own. I might've still gone home empty handed, but it still would've been better.

I know it's off topic, but still frustrating.

quote:

Originally posted by Manyathelo:

I highly recommend that if at all possible you book exclusive camps and areas

Will the average traveling hunter pay extra for that privilege?

Matt they probably wont, but what I am saying is that if they can afford to then they should

Camps in Bots, Zambia and Tanzania all generally were/are exclusive. In Zim some guys like to pack them in and have the quota to do so, some do it well and others not so. In RSA it is easy to book with top class outfitters at reasonable rates and have exclusivity. Very few areas in RSA are big enough to accommodate multiple hunters

I also don't enjoy the hunts in RSA where you stay on a base camp property and hunt different farms for different species eg kudu at base and zebra 5km down the road and impala 2 km in the opposite direction. To me that only has its place on specialist specie specific hunts.

For us safari is about the whole experience and a complete one at that.

At the end of the day each to his own

Just to be clear, this is NOT Martin's client nor his PH.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I was hunting Mule Deer in the Texas Panhandle a few years ago. The land owner required a "guide" per hunter. Well, my "guide" had just seen the property for the first time right before dusk the evening before the hunt.

His spot and stalk method was sneaking up on the ravines in his loud ass Dodge Cummins diesel. I kept wanting to tell him it wouldn't work unless we wake them up from a midday slumber. Yes, this was the approach at first light, as well.

That was money down the urinal.

Although I didn't know the property better than my guide, I could've had a better hunt on my own. I might've still gone home empty handed, but it still would've been better.

I know it's off topic, but still frustrating.

I had that guy in Texas once! I asked him why don't we get out and stalk to the edge of the canyons. He said this is Texas, we don't walk anywhere!