Just spoke to my friend. He says Farrow ripped off two of my friend’s clients. Also says Farrow is bankrupt.

I was told a story that to a certain extent is funny. It is alleged that Farrow sold some wolf hunts. There were no wolves in the area . Allegedly , Farrow bought some wolf like dogs and turned them loose . The clients think they shot wolves.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:
Zambia simply needs to get its shit together. I feel for the operators trying to do business with this government induced fiasco going on.

Same thing happened with Zambia back in 2013. That's why we looked to Mozambique for our Leopards.

Jim

Like I said earlier, Zambia has always been a shitshow when it comes to allocating blocks..horrible track record.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Just spoke to my friend. He says Farrow ripped off two of my friend’s clients. Also says Farrow is bankrupt.

I was told a story that to a certain extent is funny. It is alleged that Farrow sold some wolf hunts. There were no wolves in the area . Allegedly , Farrow bought some wolf like dogs and turned them loose . The clients think they shot wolves.

The dogs identified as wolves.

quote:

Originally posted by thunder stick:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Just spoke to my friend. He says Farrow ripped off two of my friend’s clients. Also says Farrow is bankrupt.

I was told a story that to a certain extent is funny. It is alleged that Farrow sold some wolf hunts. There were no wolves in the area . Allegedly , Farrow bought some wolf like dogs and turned them loose . The clients think they shot wolves.

The dogs identified as wolves.

You mean Sam identified as an honest person!

Thanks everyone for the PMs and texts with useful legal and sarcastic illegal advice on how to handle my situation. And special thanks to Cme for commandeering the thread and turning it into a dumpster fire. It has helped keep a spotlight on my issue and keep it at the top of AR with more views and responses than I've seen in a long time lol.

As an update, I've learned I'm not the only one in the current situation with Sam. It's my hope that Sam can make it right by making repayments and restore some confidence in international hunters and outfitters. We already face enough outside challenges when it comes to international hunting (as seen here with the Zambia issue) that there isn't room for things to go wrong between each other.

I will keep everyone updated on when repayments are made, or updates on our preparation to escalate the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Is he the guy who posted on AR as Hunt Inter?

Yes. It is the same person.

They really do need their own thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Really a Zim no name PH? And are you to be involved with this Kangaroo court? I just spoke to the operator who will post a response here and it very much varies from the poster.

Andrew,

The statement above is really funny coming from you. You have been pretty active in past Kangaroo Courts on this site. I remember you throwing Buzz under the bus, when you clearly had no dog in that fight.

Mike was right, Karma is a bitch!!!

THIS THIS THIS!!!!

My wife and I also booked a hunt with Andrew in Chanjuzi, with a few days at Shiwa on the front end. We were supposed to finish in Chanjuzi (for Buff/Leopard) the day before the lion hunter was to arrive (CME here). We too signed a contract (Jan/Feb timeframe) with Ibi who is the outfitter - Andrew though is conducting the hunt. All communication with Ibi was professional and responsive.

We wired a significant chunk of the money to Ibi once we signed the contract. I also also talked to Roland Norton at SCI and he did not raise any flags.

About a month before we were supposed to leave for the hunt, we also received word of the injunction and that Chanjuzi was closed. Very disturbing news but we made a plan to stay longer at Shiwa and also then do a trip to the Swamps. All with Andrew as PH.

After talking to Andrew and Ibi, explaining that we had no wiggle room in our dates and due to the close timing of our departure (and on Andrew's recommendation), I requested a full and immediate refund of our initial payment ($36k). Ibi made a full refund, without objection.

I have no opinion of the issues between Andrew, CME and Ibi - I offer this only for context. I can certainly see how it is a bad situation for all parties.

We had a great hunt at Shiwa and in the swamps, taking basically everything. I'll post a full report when I have time.

I do think there were legitimate questions around the timing (or perhaps the expectation) of when this situation with the block allocation would be resolved. I'm sure Ibi took an optimistic view, perhaps incorrectly. I also agree that if the poster wanted a refund, he should get it given the circumstances, as I came to the same conclusion about our original hunt.

Again, I have no insight into the interaction with CME and the others, I'm just relaying my experience in a very similar, unfortunate, situation that turned out well in the end.

Does not seem that complex to me. The person advertising and offering the hunt is the person ultimately responsible for making things right. I find this whole outfitter versus concession operator a confusing complexity that just creates a potential for finger pointing, playing the blame game and giving the client the round around. Someone offers and advertises a hunt. What they do and who they deal with to make that hunt happen is their responsibility. And if and when something goes south, it is the responsibility of the person who offered and advertised the hunt to sort it out, not punt the responsibility to the "operator".

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Does not seem that complex to me. The person advertising and offering the hunt is the person ultimately responsible for making things right. I find this whole outfitter versus concession operator a confusing complexity that just creates a potential for finger pointing, playing the blame game and giving the client the round around. Someone offers and advertises a hunt. What they do and who they deal with to make that hunt happen is their responsibility. And if and when something goes south, it is the responsibility of the person who offered and advertised the hunt to sort it out, not punt the responsibility to the "operator".

Actually, that is not strictly true.

Did the person who sued McDonalds for millions when she spilled hot coffee on herself sue the server or McDonald?

Who actually took the money?

Dang. I dodged a bullet. I used Sam a few years ago for CWD and muntjac.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Does not seem that complex to me. The person advertising and offering the hunt is the person ultimately responsible for making things right. I find this whole outfitter versus concession operator a confusing complexity that just creates a potential for finger pointing, playing the blame game and giving the client the round around. Someone offers and advertises a hunt. What they do and who they deal with to make that hunt happen is their responsibility. And if and when something goes south, it is the responsibility of the person who offered and advertised the hunt to sort it out, not punt the responsibility to the "operator".

Actually, that is not strictly true.

Did the person who sued McDonalds for millions when she spilled hot coffee on herself sue the server or McDonald?

Who actually took the money?

Saeed, it is worse than not strictly true.

It may be the stupidest, most naive drivel ever uttered on this subject.

Astonishing.

. . . based on the comments above, seems I am not alone in feeling that the outfitter advertising and selling the hunt does not get to simply punt the issue to the operator.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . based on the comments above, seems I am not alone in feeling the outfitter advertising and selling the hunt gets to simply punt the issue to the operator.

Besides being wrong on the facts - as it seems that Andrew is trying as a middleman not fully in the picture to resolve this - you are far too modest.

No one else who has commented above has even approached the stupidity and naïveté of your remarks.

This is not about karma.

This is not a game for kids yelling “Fight, fight!” on a playground.

This is about adults trying to fix a problem they did not cause.

The outfitter, not Andrew, should reimburse the poster, and sooner rather than later.

. . . appears Andrew’s client who is out his money begs to differ with you.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . appears Andrew’s client who is out his money begs to differ with you.

Not so sure about that. But you are nothing if not a vocal although ineffective surrogate.

Since we are all, according to you, guarantors of third party obligations, why don’t you pay him?

I have a better idea. You maintain that you would trust Andrew with your life savings. Why don’t you pay Andrew’s client what is owed him and you can put your trust in Andrew to the test to get you repaid.

You are truly clueless.

It’s not Andrew’s obligation. It’s the outfitter’s.

You are an utter fraud. Worse, a fraud with an axe to grind.

I’m done with you.

Too easy.

Please go back to the Political Forum where your effete efforts are more usually and as ineffectively employed.

. . . I guess Andrew’s client who is privy to all the details, all the back and forth, all the representations, etc., some of which he has shared here (at least one of which was denied and then admitted) is simply confused and misguided . . . as well as out his money . . . your ad hominem attacks notwithstanding.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . I guess Andrew’s client who is privy to all the details, all the back and forth, all the representations, etc., some of which he has shared here (at least one of which was denied and then admitted) is simply confused and misguided . . . as well as out his money . . . your ad hominem attacks notwithstanding.

Such a fraud.

You’d rather stir the shit than flush.

Try not to be too disappointed when this is resolved to the satisfaction of all involved.

Hopefully Andrew’s client can indeed get some satisfaction sooner rather than later having been forced to resort to a public airing of the problem given his inability to resolve the issue privately.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Hopefully Andrew’s client can indeed get some satisfaction sooner rather than later having been forced to resort to a public airing of the problem given his inability to resolve the issue privately.

Better than “Karma’s a bitch,” I guess.

And interestingly more vague than your absurd suggestion that the PH should guarantee the obligations of the concession owner.

What a fraud.

Correction, my comment was that the person marketing and selling the hunt should stand by the hunt, not hide behind the concession operator. Here it is even more egregious since the person selling and marketing the hunt specifically sought out the client with the offer when the client posted that he was looking for a lion hunt. Ignore those facts if it makes you feel better . . . but those facts among others apparently caused the client to feel that he needed to air his issues publicly here for the benefit of others. Maybe it would do you some good to go back and read what the client posted above and why he felt compelled to speak out.

First, the intent of your comments on this thread has been tainted by malice toward Andrew.

This was well-evidenced by your first comment: “Karma’s a bitch.”

That should and does for me and many others discount the sincerity of all you have said that followed.

As I have said, you are a fraud.

But besides that, you have willfully and grossly oversimplified this situation.

As I have also said, the stupidity and naïveté of your assertions are astonishing.

The Zambian government clustered this situation and left everyone involved a victim.

And finally, contracts matter, less to the government, but well and truly to all others for damned sure.

Sorry. Karma is indeed a bitch. Since you apparently find that phraseology so offensive, let me suggest, those that live in glass houses should not throw stones. Easy for you, not knowing a fraction of the facts, to blame the Zambian government or the concession operator, but the client, who does know all the facts and who dealt with the person selling and marketing the hunt obviously feels that that person has not and is not dealing with him squarely and forthrightly. He posted on this thread solely because he felt that his dealings with the person selling the hunt left him feeling like Sam Farrow's client . . . and he was offended by the person selling his hunt having the righteous indignation to throw a log on Sam Farrow's funeral pyre. As I said above, it is simple to me, the person selling and marketing the hunt, ought to stand by the hunt. That does not seem like too much to ask. But please, by all means, carry on with the ad hominem attacks if it makes you feel better.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I have a better idea. You maintain that you would trust Andrew with your life savings. Why don’t you pay Andrew’s client what is owed him and you can put your trust in Andrew to the test to get you repaid.

Andrew has been here for years.

I have not seen a single thing that would make me distrust him.

I will glad pay him in advance and hunt with him.

The concession owner is at fault here, despite this, he has agreed to pay back all the money.

Despite the fact what had happened was totally out of his hands.

He might have incurred expenses before this had happened, that is to his account, and he has not said anything else.

So, MJines, you absolve the Zambian government of any responsibility in all of this?

Wow.

And aren’t you holier than thou with the ad hominem victimhood.

Talk about throwing stones.

cme, I don’t know you, but I wish you the best in this.

I have confidence that good people operating in good faith will resolve it in a satisfactory way.

Fascinating how some people look at the problem with an open mind, and try to see reasons.

Others seem to be so far removed from reality, it really makes the mind boggles!

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
As of today, I still have not received a dollar back, and I see a man that is championed as the beacon of Zambian still posting hunt reports and selling hunts to the good people of this site. While many of you have had good experiences with Andrew unfortunately my dealings have been closer to what the initial poster wrote about a different PH/outfitter than what other people on here have experienced.

. . . spin it any way you like, suffice it to say that the person closest to the controversy with the greatest knowledge of all the facts and circumstances . . . the client . . . sees the situation materially different. Hopefully he sees his money sooner rather than later. Pity he had to resort to a public airing of the issues he is having getting a refund in order to try and receive satisfaction. Never should have had to come to that.

Having read through the entire thread,
Why is CME still out of pocket????
Why have other hunters been refunded , but the biggest hunt hasn’t received anything?

The blame cannot be the Zambian Govt. They didn’t receive his $60,000.
I can only blame the person whom sold him this hunt being fairgame,as well as the concession holder.
They both must have been aware of the concession being cancelled well before the final contract signing.
I find it incredible the PH seems to be passing the batten on this to the concession holder, and not being involved fully to get this mans money back ASAP.He did in fact sell him the hunt!!!

The vagueness of some of his posts is alarming to me .

I do not know any of the people involved in this dilemma, but would have serious doubts about booking a hunt with the PH, or Concession holder Ibi at all.

In fact I would not really consider Zambia as a country I would look at doing a hunt in after seeing this saga unfold.

I’ve hunted Zimbabwe,Mozambique and Namibia many times for DG.They will continue to be my choice moving on.

Don’t let facts get in the way, but an amount north of 60 is in hand. I was paying for my dad as well and still haven’t received a dollar. I’d love to know how Mr Robinson would react in a situation like this. I feel like I saw him complain about a hunt being too hard last year. Well I would have loved to have been able to go and quit a hunt but one was never delivered.

Carson W: Told you so. I had another Darling of Accurate Reloading (Martin Pieters) screw me out of a trophy fee. According to this board it was all my fault until Martin Pieters cheated a guy out of $60,000 for an elephant hunt. Incidentally African Hunting still allows controversial outfitters to post on their website.

quote:

Originally posted by WR500:
Having read through the entire thread,
Why is CME still out of pocket????
Why have other hunters been refunded , but the biggest hunt has the received anything?

The blame cannot be the Zambian Govt. They didn’t receive his $60,000.
I can only blame the person whom sold him this hunt being fairgame,as well as the concession holder.
They both must have been aware of the concession being cancelled well before the final contract signing.
I find it incredible the PH seems to be passing the batten on this to the concession holder, and not being involved fully to get this mans money back ASAP.He did in fact sell him the hunt!!!

The vagueness of some of his posts is alarming to me .

I do not know any of the people involved in this dilemma, but would have serious doubts about booking a hunt with the PH, or Concession holder Ibi at all.

In fact I would not really consider Zambia as a country I would look at doing a hunt in after seeing this saga unfold.

I’ve hunted Zimbabwe,Mozambique and Namibia many times for DG.They will continue to be my choice moving on.

And I have hunted with Andrew (6) times with complete satisfaction, and my next two hunts in Africa will be in Zambia, with Andrew. My last hunt with him was last month where he guided me to a 46” Buffalo bull. The report is on this site.

Some people have never hunted with Andrew and have formed their opinions. Some of us have hunted with him extensively, and have formed our opinions from actual experience.

Some have opined that Andrew should stand behind this unfortunate hunter to get his money back. I see no evidence that Andrew is not in fact doing his best on this already. As I wrote before, if Andrew has already informed Ibi that the money should be refunded, and Ibi does not have the money at this moment, what is Andrew’s next step? Is he to go put a gun to Ibi’s head and demand the money? I’m not sure what action Andrew is expected to produce, if Ibi cannot or will not, refund the client’s money. Ibi has the money, not Andrew.

I also said in my earlier post, I agreed in full that Andrew as the PH who sold the hunt, needs to stand behind his client and help him in any way possible to urge Ibi to refund the client his money. What is Andrew expected to do, if Ibi says he doesn’t have the money but will refund it as soon as he has it? If I were the client, I would expect Andrew to stay on Ibi for the refund, but I also realize Andrew cannot force Ibi to pay up immediately if the money is not there, and that sad situation is on Ibi.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by WR500:
Having read through the entire thread,
Why is CME still out of pocket????
Why have other hunters been refunded , but the biggest hunt has the received anything?

The blame cannot be the Zambian Govt. They didn’t receive his $60,000.
I can only blame the person whom sold him this hunt being fairgame,as well as the concession holder.
They both must have been aware of the concession being cancelled well before the final contract signing.
I find it incredible the PH seems to be passing the batten on this to the concession holder, and not being involved fully to get this mans money back ASAP.He did in fact sell him the hunt!!!

The vagueness of some of his posts is alarming to me .

I do not know any of the people involved in this dilemma, but would have serious doubts about booking a hunt with the PH, or Concession holder Ibi at all.

In fact I would not really consider Zambia as a country I would look at doing a hunt in after seeing this saga unfold.

I’ve hunted Zimbabwe,Mozambique and Namibia many times for DG.They will continue to be my choice moving on.

And I have hunted with Andrew (6) times with complete satisfaction, and my next two hunts in Africa will be in Zambia, with Andrew. My last hunt with him was last month where he guided me to a 46” Buffalo bill. The report is on this site.

Some people have never hunted with Andrew and have formed their opinions. Some of us have hunted with him extensively, and have formed our opinions from actual experience.

Some have opined that Andrew should stand behind this unfortunate hunter to get his money back. I see no evidence that Andrew is not in fact doing his best on this already. As I wrote before, if Andrew has already informed Ibi that the money should be refunded, and Ibi does not have the money at this moment, what is Andrew’s next step? Is he to go put a gun to Ibi’s head and demand the money? I’m not sure what action Andrew is expected to produce, if Ibi cannot or will not, refund the client’s money. Ibi has the money, not Andrew.

I also said in my earlier post, I agreed in full that Andrew as the PH who sold the hunt, needs to stand behind his client and help him in any way possible to urge Ibi to refund the client his money. What is Andrew expected to do, if Ibi says he doesn’t have the money but will refund it as soon as he has it? If I were the client, I would expect Andrew to stay on Ibi for the refund, but I also realize Andrew cannot force Ibi to pay up immediately if the money is not there, and that sad situation is on Ibi.

True facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
True facts.

. . . and as far as we know, so are Cme’s.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by WR500:
Having read through the entire thread,
Why is CME still out of pocket????
Why have other hunters been refunded , but the biggest hunt has the received anything?

The blame cannot be the Zambian Govt. They didn’t receive his $60,000.
I can only blame the person whom sold him this hunt being fairgame,as well as the concession holder.
They both must have been aware of the concession being cancelled well before the final contract signing.
I find it incredible the PH seems to be passing the batten on this to the concession holder, and not being involved fully to get this mans money back ASAP.He did in fact sell him the hunt!!!

The vagueness of some of his posts is alarming to me .

I do not know any of the people involved in this dilemma, but would have serious doubts about booking a hunt with the PH, or Concession holder Ibi at all.

In fact I would not really consider Zambia as a country I would look at doing a hunt in after seeing this saga unfold.

I’ve hunted Zimbabwe,Mozambique and Namibia many times for DG.They will continue to be my choice moving on.

And I have hunted with Andrew (6) times with complete satisfaction, and my next two hunts in Africa will be in Zambia, with Andrew. My last hunt with him was last month where he guided me to a 46” Buffalo bill. The report is on this site.

Some people have never hunted with Andrew and have formed their opinions. Some of us have hunted with him extensively, and have formed our opinions from actual experience.

Some have opined that Andrew should stand behind this unfortunate hunter to get his money back. I see no evidence that Andrew is not in fact doing his best on this already. As I wrote before, if Andrew has already informed Ibi that the money should be refunded, and Ibi does not have the money at this moment, what is Andrew’s next step? Is he to go put a gun to Ibi’s head and demand the money? I’m not sure what action Andrew is expected to produce, if Ibi cannot or will not, refund the client’s money. Ibi has the money, not Andrew.

I also said in my earlier post, I agreed in full that Andrew as the PH who sold the hunt, needs to stand behind his client and help him in any way possible to urge Ibi to refund the client his money. What is Andrew expected to do, if Ibi says he doesn’t have the money but will refund it as soon as he has it? If I were the client, I would expect Andrew to stay on Ibi for the refund, but I also realize Andrew cannot force Ibi to pay up immediately if the money is not there, and that sad situation is on Ibi.

All true but also missing the forest for the trees…
Everyone here is actually a victim in one way shape or form…the outfitter was hurt more than anyone in all this. The outfitter got hammered by being shut down (when he really shouldn’t have). Andrew got caught in the middle too and the client stuck because the outfitter didn’t have the money to return.
The REAL issue here truly is who knew what and when. Secondarily, how Andrew washed his hands of it and walked away. Andrew sold a hunt that couldn’t take place….Period. He knew at some point well prior there was a serious issue…period…
Since I had first hand knowledge of the situation and timing I believe they knew for a while there was a serious issue and didn’t communicate it. It’s human nature. They were truly hoping the issue would somehow be resolved and held out till the very last minute. It didn’t and everyone was scrambling
Several other clients were told earlier and their money returned and were able to rebook elsewhere. A Lion/leopard/ buffalo x 2 hunt 30 days away with a $80,000 deposit and a total budget of $150,000 ??? Not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by WR500:
Having read through the entire thread,
Why is CME still out of pocket????
Why have other hunters been refunded , but the biggest hunt hasn’t received anything?

The blame cannot be the Zambian Govt. They didn’t receive his $60,000.
I can only blame the person whom sold him this hunt being fairgame,as well as the concession holder.
They both must have been aware of the concession being cancelled well before the final contract signing.
I find it incredible the PH seems to be passing the batten on this to the concession holder, and not being involved fully to get this mans money back ASAP.He did in fact sell him the hunt!!!

The vagueness of some of his posts is alarming to me .

I do not know any of the people involved in this dilemma, but would have serious doubts about booking a hunt with the PH, or Concession holder Ibi at all.

In fact I would not really consider Zambia as a country I would look at doing a hunt in after seeing this saga unfold.

I’ve hunted Zimbabwe,Mozambique and Namibia many times for DG.They will continue to be my choice moving on.

100%

Blame should be on PH and Outfitter. Blaming the government is not on.

If the outfitter couldn’t provide a 100% refund to ALL the clients, he should have worked out how much he can pay and then divide that in proportion to the hunts booked. PH and outfitter should have communicated better to the clients.

There were Zambian outfitters who did not attend the shows because they were unsure of the status of their concessions.

I called out Fairgame a few months back for using a photo of a client that was not his client and did not even take place close to the concession being advertised. Guess who got blamed… (the outfitter)