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One of Us |
Monies were paid directly to the Outfitter who was fully prepared to hunt this season hence the selling of the quota prior to the injunction. Note I am still paying off deposits that I had received for Royal Kafue and clients have been kind enough to receive the refund as and when I get money in. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| Administrator |
My understanding. Client books to hunt with Andrew on someone else’s concession. Client pays the money directly to the concession owner. Concession owner looses the right to hunt, due to circumstances beyond his control. Client asks for his money back. Concession owner is dragging his feet in paying back the refund. How much has been refunded, out of the total? What payment time table was offered? Where is Andrew’s involvement?? | |||
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It seems to me that several questions should be asked. 1-Who sold the hunt ? 2-Was the area closed at the time of sale? If so was it disclosed ? 3-Who is the contract with ? 4-Who got the money? 5- Why does the head of the PHAZ say this is fraudulent? Did he say it in writing? In the final analysis, I hope this gets resolved . | |||
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| One of Us |
I have booked two hunts in Zambia. One came to fruition. On the first the now defunct operator ran off with my money. The agent, Neal and Brownlee, refunded my money in full. On the second, we booked direct with an operator who then subcontracted part of the hunt with another operator in a concession held my an Indian national living in Zambia but well connected to the government. The hunt went reasonably well. The operator we booked through had enormous trouble with the third party - prices changes, unknown fees charged and all kinds of threats.He sorted it out but it was painful for him and me financially. That operator repeated told me about the political and financial issues in Zambia. That was enough to keep me out of there unless I had a hard core contract with a US agent who would guarantee my money and the logistics of the hunt. I don’t know Andrew, so this is not a comment on him. I have avoided Zambia for the experience I had. Others have had great success. | |||
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I do believe, agent and money kept in escrow until the end of a hunt is way to go That way, outfitters don’t spend your money before hand Any business that provides services gets paid after the services are provided Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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1-Andrew 2-I don’t know 3-outfitter 4-outfitter 5-when I signed the updated contract on April 22, 2023 (version 3 that I signed) the concession was closed and a contract should not have been issued. The dates for 2023 were listed on the contract as well. All of the statements I have made have been factual and I also acknowledged previously that Andrew offered to roll the hunt to another year. That doesn’t solve the issue of not getting a refund in time to book another hunt for 2023. At the end of the day this issue robbed me of the last chance I had to hunt with my dad. I believe all of this will lead to me getting a refund. I’m a man of my word and when that refund takes place I’ll let the forum know. | |||
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Number 5 above. Why did you sign the contract if you knew the concession was closed? Or is it you found out that it was closed the date you were given the contract but was not aware of this fact? | |||
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I didn’t know the concession was closed when I signed the contract. The first contract I signed was Feb 22 for leopard, then Oct 22 for Leopard and Lion, then finally Feb 23 after adding my dad. I was never told there could be any issue with my hunt this year. Since I don’t live in Africa I would expect those selling and PH’ing a hunt to be up to date and only put me in an area that is open and available for hunting. | |||
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Who informed you the concession was closed the time you signed the contract? I am not questioning you, just trying to see where this has gotten off the tracks. Was the contract with Andrew or with the outfitter - again, I am assuming it is the concession owner. | |||
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Hello Saeed, I spoke to Roland Norton, President of PHAZ, on July 11th. He informed me that the concession had been closed and I never should have been sold the hunt. I only found out about this after reaching out to several parties within Zambia after my hunt was cancelled and I could not get a refund. The money was paid to the outfitter of the concession. That does not absolve Andrew from his responsibilities. It is also extremely ironic that Andrew was able to get hunts booked so quickly to take place over the dates I was scheduled to hunt. | |||
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Sam Farrow is an obese crook. His reputation in the UK is well established. Taking other’s money is his modus operandi. The Zambia crook up should be taken elsewhere in a new thread. Let Farrow stew in his own lard a bit. | |||
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You are adding to my confusion! If the concession was closed, how can Andrew book hunts on it? Or are you talking of different areas.? | |||
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| One of Us |
Different area | |||
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| one of us |
1-Seems Andrew sold the hunt 2-Seems area may or may not have been closed at the time of first sale and was never disclosed. At the time of the second sale the concession was closed and then would have been a perfect time to disclose the issues. 3-Seems Sale was made by Andrew and for some reason contract might be with the concession holder but Andrew was doing the hunt. Was it suggested to do it this way because of the situation in Zambia? Does not seem business as usual. 4-Seems concession holder but why didn't Andrew accept the money 5-Seems you cant offer or sell a hunt for a concession that is closed Hate seeing this for both parties I hope this all gets resolved quickly especially for this young man. He wanted a chance to take his father to Africa and believed this was his chance. | |||
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It would help to know exactly when and why it was closed. Was it closed to certain species only e.g. Lion/Leopard which could possibly answer why Andrew was able to sell other hunts during the same time frame which had already been sold (maybe Buff/Plains Game) ? It is however the responsibility of the outfitter to inform the client directly on the matter and be up front with Andrew on what is going on (seems not); the PH (Andrew) is not necessarily privy to any ongoing administrative issues that may exist between outfitter (concession-holder) and Zambian Authorities. In this case Andrew only brokered a deal between client and outfitter, possibly though not necessarily involving a commission, but more with a view to conduct the hunt and be remunerated for his time. (answers question 4) IMHO Andrew therefore cannot be categorized as an "agent" and be shouldered with the responsibilities of one. He may be held accountable in part but not to be tarred and feathered as is being done. | |||
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Hmmm.... biggest question for me is if the hunt couldn't be done for "whatever" reason by the outfitter and/or the PH through no fault of the client, why isn't the money being refunded promptly? It's the client's decision if he wants a refund or to roll over the hunt to the next year. I understand Andrew never received any money but I would expect clear communication and a PH working on my behalf to make it right... On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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I agree absolutely with all above. My question is, if Andrew asks Ibi to refund the clients money, and Ibi does not do so immediately, what is Andrew’s responsibility, and his authority, to make Ibi pay up immediately if Ibi does not or can not? What are Andrew’s options at this point? | |||
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| One of Us |
Good questions and there was a short window of opportunity between the second tender and the later injunction, if you are awarded the area then you would sell knowing that the Government would guarantee their Tender process. However, the original Tender nominees under the last Government contested this decision in court which upset the applecart. This cluster meant that clients were offered a full refund or the opportunity to hunt elsewhere which many chose to do. The poster was in agreement that he would sit it out and be prepared to hunt later season fully realizing the injunction could be reversed. I have no correspondence that this could be his father's last safari nor was it indicated to me. I looked at some other Lion hunt opportunities where the deposit could have been transferred to another operator but I doubted the areas that were on offer. The last message I got from Ibi (the Outfitter) was he was talking to the poster. So let us see what becomes of that. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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To be honest I thought the hunt would occur late this season and I suggested if not it to be transferred to next year as the Operator had been awarded the concession on both tenders. I would dismiss the emotional part about the Father as that was not communicated to me and besides the pricing was very attractive. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Is she? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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The poster has only today forwarded his bank transfer details to the Operator for reimbursement. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| one of us |
IMO, I don't think he has any "authority" but his responsibility is to be the client's advocate and keep the lines of communication open... Communication in these types of cock-ups is all important. One reason going through an agent can sometimes smooth these situations out as mentioned before. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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I agree with the above! | |||
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And it appears he is… | |||
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| One of Us |
Zambia simply needs to get its shit together. I feel for the operators trying to do business with this government induced fiasco going on. | |||
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Andrew, stop lying. The operator has had my details for months. Do you also want me to attach the messages to show you do indeed know about my dad’s condition as far back as 2022? Just own the fact that you shit the bed and got called out on it. | |||
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| one of us |
I hunted with Andrew 4 years ago and I would certainly trust him 100% to get things right for the client. A very good man, indeed. At my age and with a set income each year, I no longer will pay 100% of the safari well in advance. The last time that I did that, an immediate member of my family became gravely ill and I had to cancel. I informed the outfitter and while sympathetic he said that was just bad luck on my part and good bye to the 100% of the hunt. I gave no objections as that was just the way it was. We all have to make a living. I now just give the 40% deposit and when the day arrives to get on the big plane I have my lady send the rest of the hunt cost. In the olden days I would have paid the remainder at the end of the hunt. Come to think of it - I did that last year in Botswana.. | |||
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The poster gave his details months ago to Ibi and made numerous requests I saw the requests personally I know all this because I’m the one who recommended you and still would The situation turned into a mess that no one intended. The real problem that happened is simple A hunt was sold in an area that either was closed or would soon close through no fault of anyone However, the ultimate issue is who knew what and when and subsequently what and when was this communicated You all “hoped” the situation with the moronic government would resolve itself…it didn’t I would hate to be the operator and incur operating expenses and then have all my revenue returned That’s exactly what happened here unfortunately (which sucks for literally sucked for everyone involved) What I saw from you personally in the deal was you sort of checked out and washed your hands in the deal You went out on hunts as you have a living to make too CME was left holding the bag One question I wonder is since the hunt was booked in July and he was notified really just weeks prior ultimately He was notified June 16 for a hunt scheduled for July 18…. Basically one month prior that the hunt could not be conducted. We now know others knew weeks earlier. You somehow had an alternative hunt booked with someone during the same July dates to fill your calendar (which you needed to do) I wonder how in the world you sold and planned an alternative hunt for the dates in July with another hunter in another area of you didn’t know the situation was FUBAR prior? I believe you knew either in April when the Father was added and contacts were updated (or should have) Or you knew sometime soon thereafter and CME damn sure didn’t (because I’m the guy that got the phone call) For the record I told him this is what was going to happen. I knew that money was spent and it was….now you are scrambling instead of simply saying we didn’t realize this was going to happen and it created a serious cash flow problem for the operator who is the real loser here at the end of the day You immediately shifted to a new hunt and any business person would | |||
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One of Us |
Same thing happened with Zambia back in 2013. That's why we looked to Mozambique for our Leopards. Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Andrew, The statement above is really funny coming from you. You have been pretty active in past Kangaroo Courts on this site. I remember you throwing Buzz under the bus, when you clearly had no dog in that fight. Mike was right, Karma is a bitch!!! Go Duke!! | |||
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You are quite right and checked your messages and you did mention your Father was suffering from Parkinsons and this is the message I received yesterday from Ibi. There was also a message that you were considering a roll over and September was the last month you could hunt this year?  ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| Administrator |
So, my understanding. Everyone involved was happy to do business together. Client, professional hunter and concession owners. Unaware of the government intentions. Once that happened, things went sideways. The client has every right to get his refund back as soon as possible. It is the responsibility of concession owner. Andrew, who has also been wronged, has the responsibility of persuading the concession owners to refund the client in total right now. Not tomorrow, or in installments. And having read others complaining of Zambia's disregard for hunters, I would think twice about going there. This is the sort of complications one does not look forward to. | |||
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I had reserved the hunt for the 18 and previously booked a hunt to end on the 17/18 with the possibility of a days overlap and by then it looked as things were not moving as expected and we agreed to wait it out ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| One of Us |
To be fair we were all expecting the injunction to be reversed and the poster had agreed to hang on till September and whilst there was requests for a refund the following messages indicated that he was prepared to sit it out? I am not privy to all the correspondence between the poster and Outfitter but had been informed that the other hunters had been reimbursed ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| Administrator |
Is the concession owner not stating all the facts? Like he had the bank details from the client before, but informed Andrew that he just got them?? | |||
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| One of Us |
I am not sure of that correspondence and I had introduced the client directly to the Concession owner to discuss a contract ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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And the winner is…… Sam Farrow  | |||
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I doubt it. The discussion has gone off on a separate direction, true, but Sam won’t be forgotten. I do feel sorry for the client in Zambia, as well as feel sorry for Andrew. Both have been caught in situation neither anticipated, or had any choice in. The concession owner is at fault, despite what has been forced upon him. The refund must not be delayed. | |||
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| One of Us |
On the subject of Sam Farrow, I was in Spain in December. a friend warned me about two notorious booking agents. Mr. Farrow was one of them. | |||
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| One of Us |
Is he the guy who posted on AR as Hunt Inter? | |||
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