In any endeavor, a man should consider his motivation. When we sport hunt game do we consider whether our motivation is virtuous (as in the cardinal virtues) or sinful (as in the seven deadly sins) or is it just an animal instinct that must be fulfilled?
Does the life of the animal have value to the animal? Of course it does. At some point in a hunter's season does the taking of more life begin to become Unjust and with no honor? If the motivation of the hunt is a check from the magazine, the gunmaker or TV producer, or another record animal killed with an X-weapon, or getting into the record-book--does that justify taking Life?
If we really value our sport, then we should have at least thought on these questions of morality. If we are killing 1)just to satisfy a lust of killing, or 2)killing for money, or3) a place in the record-book, are we not guilty of Intemperance, greed, Pride, Envy, or at least Injustice to the animal?
Hunting can be virtuous, but can it also not be?

Jim switched to T/C for the OBVIOUS reason!! Can't blame him, that's how he earns a living!!!

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:
In any endeavor, a man should consider his motivation. When we sport hunt game do we consider whether our motivation is virtuous (as in the cardinal virtues) or sinful (as in the seven deadly sins) or is it just an animal instinct that must be fulfilled?
Does the life of the animal have value to the animal? Of course it does. At some point in a hunter's season does the taking of more life begin to become Unjust and with no honor? If the motivation of the hunt is a check from the magazine, the gunmaker or TV producer, or another record animal killed with an X-weapon, or getting into the record-book--does that justify taking Life?
If we really value our sport, then we should have at least thought on these questions of morality. If we are killing 1)just to satisfy a lust of killing, or 2)killing for money, or3) a place in the record-book, are we not guilty of Intemperance, greed, Pride, Envy, or at least Injustice to the animal?
Hunting can be virtuous, but can it also not be?

Why don't you give us your definition of "virtuous" hunting and what makes it different from any other kind of hunting?

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:
In any endeavor, a man should consider his motivation. When we sport hunt game do we consider whether our motivation is virtuous (as in the cardinal virtues) or sinful (as in the seven deadly sins) or is it just an animal instinct that must be fulfilled?
Does the life of the animal have value to the animal? Of course it does. At some point in a hunter's season does the taking of more life begin to become Unjust and with no honor? If the motivation of the hunt is a check from the magazine, the gunmaker or TV producer, or another record animal killed with an X-weapon, or getting into the record-book--does that justify taking Life?
If we really value our sport, then we should have at least thought on these questions of morality. If we are killing 1)just to satisfy a lust of killing, or 2)killing for money, or3) a place in the record-book, are we not guilty of Intemperance, greed, Pride, Envy, or at least Injustice to the animal?
Hunting can be virtuous, but can it also not be?

Steve,
I agree with your reasoning. I wrestle with it as well.

As to the gun Jim Shockey uses, I have ofter wondered if you were to get Shockey, Boddington or whoever in a room and promised not to divulge what they say - what gun would they use? What scope would they use? What is there personal favorite?

I have seen Boddington use Ruger's, Dakota's (in Boddington on Buffalo 1), Turnbull's and a double. He has used Trijicon and Swarovski scopes.

Shockey uses Leupold scopes and TC or Knight.

I understand endorsements, but have often wondered what their personal preference truly is.

Steve,
Pardon me for separating statements and thoughts in the quotations.

quote:

When we sport hunt game do we consider whether our motivation is virtuous--

In all candor: I doubt this is considered by many ,perhaps a single digit percentage.

It may be only a slightly higher percentage than offer the same consideration for the commercially obtained steak,burger,chicken ,etc.

quote:

----or is it just an animal instinct that must be fulfilled?

Sitting atop the food chain has its privilege, yet that privilege is under direct assault by the antis.

Our instincts are continually regulated by laws,
as in , "you must flee rather than defend your home" in some locales.

quote:

Does the life of the animal have value to the animal?

I am unaware of studies to confirm this concept,
yet it is assumed by many on both sides as a given.

quote:

If the motivation of the hunt is a check -------does that justify taking Life?---If we are killing----for money,---are we not guilty of Intemperance, greed, Pride, Envy, or at least Injustice to the animal?

Again, how does this differ from the farmer,the rancher, the fisherman , the butcher, etc.?

Motivation to kill has been questioned and debated ,I presume, since men began to communicate.
Distinctions are obviously cultural, personal and ultimately now a matter of laws, as are most things.

quote:

If we really value our sport, then we should have at least thought on these questions of morality.

Discussions such as this assist us in preparation for the legislative onslaught of anti-hunting efforts .

These and other points are routinely raised in equating animal rights with our own.

We all need to be able to articulate our thoughts and as much as it may seem illogical, our "emotions or feelings" on such matters.

Unfortunately, the legislative process on "hot button" issues proceeds most often on emotion and far less often on logic.



My personal opinion:

It is legal for him to earn his living in this manner.

One should follow ones dreams within legal parameters.

It is as ethical as producing and slaughtering commercial domestic stock.


Morality is reserved for relationships among men and women and cultures in which they reside.

Morality has been malleable by communal living
since communal living began.

My personal motivation for hunting:
It is an integral, instinctual, if you prefer, part of me--- I live, I hunt.

I liked Jim's last page short articles in the gun rag, but he has become like a popular song that the radio plays too often, and for too long. After a while you get tired of it, and turn the radio off so you don't have to hear it again.

Jim has become a song I no longer want to hear. The TV, and the magazines have run him into the ground, and the so-called muzzleloaders that are only shightly less effecient than a modern bolt action rifle, do not interest me at all. My muzzleloaders are real replicas of the primative weapons used by the mountain men. I see no point in hunting with a rifle that has a scope, and a range slightly less than a Camp Perry rifle, that is called a muzzleloader simply because the powder is dropped down the barrel, and trying to convence me you are, somehow, handicaped by it's use.

Ya'll need to quit hating on someone who basically gets paid to hunt...so T/C stickers are on his guns, kinda like a race car and the crew that goes w/the car!

I think Jim's shows are among the best out there and try not to miss one along with Tracks.

As far as the TC muzzle loaders go, they are most likely the best out there as far as price, versatility, accuracy and ease of operation. Sure there are some "custom" pieces around but for a production gun they are about as good as it gets. We all "play up" and "show" our weapons whenever we get the chance. Note most all pics here have the weapon alongside the slain beast and a description of the rifle, type of ammo and scope used. The only difference with Shockey is they sponsor his show so it' obvious that his TC's will be at the forefront. I know I tout my CZ550 in 9.3 X 62 and the .404 Jeff on lots of posts.

In most cases the "rub" stems from jealousy or envy that someone is "making a living" doing something we all would like to do. Remember, no sponsor, no shows. I for one enjoy the shows and for the most part like the ads as well. It's kinda nice to see all the new products and goodies these ads provide.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I like Shockey's TV show and my son is absolutely IN LOVE with his daughter Eva. His show is one of the best along with Boddington and the Eastman's. Of all the hunting shows my son and I watch together, this is the one that we usually learn something and get a good laugh, especially if Hal is on. My son and I hope that Eva Shockey has her own hunting show someday. . .

Shockey is pure corn (as I probably am). His wife is beautiful (but my girlfriend is better looking!). His father a trip (but mine was a round trip). I envy him in his making a good living doing what he loves to do (but I've loved my profession, too.. at least when I've helped someone).

The biggest part of his appeal, I would think, is his ability (which I believe is just his nature) to appear as excited on every hunt as you and I would be. It is refreshing... and it is not just about killing stuff.

Like someone said. I don't turn off his shows like I do of folks in shooting boxes with camo on and whispering so not to spook deer 200 yards away that are eating sprinkled corn.

Boddington's shows are better, but Shockey ain't so bad.

I'd love to hunt with Shockey some day, but he ain't cheap because he understands market value.

Just to be honest, I hunt from shooting boxes, too. Generally, however, I do so when I have only time to drive from the office to the hunt lease (still in a suit), can park my truck a bit down the road and get in 30 to 45 minutes on a food plot. Not my first choice, but better than watching MSNBC on T.V.

Jim spent 27 days with our outfit this spring. Hope to see a few Ethiopian Segments. He's booked again in a couple of years.

Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by RVL III:
Ya'll need to quit hating on someone who basically gets paid to hunt...so T/C stickers are on his guns, kinda like a race car and the crew that goes w/the car!

I don't hate Shockey,in fact I think he is a neat guy, I'm just tired of him! For the last five yrs, it seems you couldn't pick a gun mag that didn't have ten articles by Jim. Like anything one reads or sees, when overload comes down the road, you take a deture!

His TV shows may be very good, I wouldn't know, because I have never seen one of them. I'm very glad he is making a fine liveing doing what he loves best, we should all be so lucky.

I enjoy his show more than most and having spoke with him on two different occassions, I believe he is the real deal. I enjoy seeing him get excited during his hunts. Nothing will put me off more than someone who just shoots and animal with no emotion! If you don't get excited, it's time to quit! Jim also took time to speak directly to my son which was a big deal for a young man. I am not sure about the powder he endorses however!

Jim was sitting in the booth at the Reno show this January discussing his upcoming safari. A family passed by with a small boy (proabably 8 years old or so)and the boy spotted him. The boy yelled "JIM SHOCKEY" and ran over to him. With wide eyes he said, "I watch your show every Saturday!" Jim took the time to talk with him a bit and produced a Photo which he autographed and gave to the excited lad. The Jim Shockey Show.... What a positive thing for promoting our sport.

Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Helluva lot better than that 'let me tell ya whut' mushmouth Waddell. Was that mudslinging?

Yes I agree there are far too many idiot southerners on tv.

Too many Yankees and not enough Westerners.

Thank god for Boddington, Shockey, and Larry Cszonka.

quote:

The comments here have made me glad I decided years ago not to subscribe to the outdoor channels.

The only reason I subscribe is to get Tracks Across Africa. Nothing more boring than to watch the same old whitetail hunt with different faces on the hunters.

I enjoy Shocky's program. He is obviously an astute businessman. I understand he is a substantial land owner, also.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Mike H.:
Didn't Shockey used to hunt with a Knight smokepole. Does any one remember or am I just dreaming this?

Yup, and he also strictly used Barnes X.....hmmm

Love his shows, I have many of his videos & hey are definately some of my most favored ones.

D99 - Thanks indeed for hunting terrorists and keeping our Country safe, but bad mouthing our/your fellow Americans based on where they live, their accents and mannerisms seems to be 180 degrees off of your mission. Plus, also the ones you slam are all "hunters" and we need as many of us right now as possible. Funny you don't state your own State of birth or residence?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by D99:

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Helluva lot better than that 'let me tell ya whut' mushmouth Waddell. Was that mudslinging?

Yes I agree there are far too many idiot southerners on tv.

Too many Yankees and not enough Westerners.

Thank god for Boddington, Shockey, and Larry Cszonka.

I think his show is entertaining. His wife does not need any enhancement IMHO. Who has an enhanced wife anyway? I enjoy all the shows even if it is not my personal idea of what gun or how or what they hunt.

Jim's cool, but he's not nearly as cute as Tiffany.

Yes, that vapid blonde airhead with the forced smile is the epitome of hunting women...NOT!

Shockey seems to truly love doing what he does. So what if he makes a (very good) living at it? More power to him!

John

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
D99 - Thanks indeed for hunting terrorists and keeping our Country safe, but bad mouthing our/your fellow Americans based on where they live, their accents and mannerisms seems to be 180 degrees off of your mission. Plus, also the ones you slam are all "hunters" and we need as many of us right now as possible. Funny you don't state your own State of birth or residence?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by D99:

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Helluva lot better than that 'let me tell ya whut' mushmouth Waddell. Was that mudslinging?

Yes I agree there are far too many idiot southerners on tv.

Too many Yankees and not enough Westerners.

Thank god for Boddington, Shockey, and Larry Cszonka.

Birth Wyoming, grew up in Wyoming, New Mexico, Montana, and Arizona (Dad was a federal agent).

I just get tired of getting treated like an outsider on the wrong half of our nation by people who can't prounounce car "cah" and oil "olil".

Synical yes, when I am in the "stans" hunting terrorist I work to make sure all my guys (even the southerners and yankees) come home alive. But that doesn't mean we don't give one another a hard time.

quote:

Originally posted by snowymthunter:
I like Shockey's TV show and my son is absolutely IN LOVE with his daughter Eva. His show is one of the best along with Boddington and the Eastman's. Of all the hunting shows my son and I watch together, this is the one that we usually learn something and get a good laugh, especially if Hal is on. My son and I hope that Eva Shockey has her own hunting show someday. . .

I really liked Eastmans when it was mostly mike Guy and his buddies are boring to watch.

Mikes Dad' was the best. High Wild and Free, and Challenging the North West Territories are amazing movies. Especially when you think about them being filmed prior to 3 pound digital cameras.

quote:

The worst show on the outdoor channel has to be "Hunting the World Southern Style". The opening song/rap is enough to make me hurl!

Other than the Benelli/Beretta shows, Boddington, Shockey, and North to Alaska, 99% of hunting TV is crap.

The One is the biggest piece of shit I have ever seen. Makes Tred Barta look like a astrophysics professor.

I will say this Pam from Shesafari is something to look at. If I ever get her in bed, I am knocking her up on the first try so she has to battle to leave me.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptMike:

quote:

The worst show on the outdoor channel has to be "Hunting the World Southern Style". The opening song/rap is enough to make me hurl!

Wow your right, I just went to the website and watched the intro. Maybe we could build a fence around these guys and get some shock collars. What a stupid group of idiots. The rap was priceless.

I don't think they have a show but www.huntersvideo.dk is probably the best producer of hunting videos I have ever seen.

Chris Dorsey, Tom Ackerman, Lee Horsley, and Gerald McCraney are good.

I even like Larry Weishuhn! Lets just get away from this Mississippi Mushmouth stuff.

While I like deer and turkey hunting, there are way way too many of those shows.