The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Factory Ammo or Handloads for Hunting?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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As a result of the recent .458 Win Mag discussion, and other discussions around the cracker barrel in the local gun shop, I'm wondering if I'm way off track spending all this time and money developing custom loads for my .375 H&H and .458 Win Mag. These are intended for a hunt for Cape Buffalo and Hippo in Zimbabwe but I feel the question still applies on plains game hunts, and any other big game hunts. Thanks for your participation! Les
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The 458wm deserves good handloading. You can easily develop safe, midlin' level loads that outperform factory fodder, and using better bullets too. For 500gr bullets try AA 2230 and the Hornaday manual. For 450gr bullets try H 4895 and the Hornaday manual. BTW, the Hornaday manual shows the same loads in its current edition as it did when Hornaday solids were steel jacketed. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Handloading is the only way to maximize the potential of your rifle. | |||
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While I specified that I used handloaded ammo for dangerous game, I have never hunted dangerous game. My implication is, If I were to hunt dangerous game, yes, I would use my personally loaded ammo for the bad and ugly. Paul B. | |||
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I voted that I used handloads for dangerous game even though I have never hunted dangerous game because the survey says you have to answer every question. Due to the fact that I use my handloads for everything and will use them when I make it on a Buffalo hunt, I voted that way. Mike | |||
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I suppose you can reload for many purposes but to me the primary reasons are economics and performance. I personally never try to develop the MAXIMUM performance load for any of the calibers I load for. I'm after a very ACCURATE load with adequate performance for the application. My primary reason for reloading is for economic reasons especially in the large calibers. Only on one occaison did I take factory loads on safari. They were premium Speer loads and perfectly satisfactory in all respects SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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With some of the present factory offerings, I would have no problems hunting any game animals with them. However, personally I have only used factory ammo - and 2 second hand bought rifles - on my first safari in 1982. Ever since I have been using nothing but handloads. In rare occasions, you will come across arifle that like one particular factory load. And no matter what you do, you might be able to equal that load, but never beat it. On the majority of rifles, one can improve on factory ammo by handloading. Add to that the satisfaction and confidence you will have when you use your own ammo. In some occasions, I have come across some factory ammo that was defective in one way or another. THis has never, ever, happened with the ammo I load myself. | |||
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I believe the last factory center fire ammunition I purchased was in 1960, when I purchased my first RCBS Press. While I load my own shotgun shells, I purchase AA shells when the hulls will no longer crimp. Factory ammunition is just not in my program  Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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I have used both factory and handloads for both plains and dangerous game hunting. When reloading for dangerous game (and for any high importance hunt), you should follow a set procedure that insures reliability. Use once fired cases Trim cases and clean the primer pockets Prime and charge by scale Check all cases for charges Seat bullet to desired depth Check weight to insure all rounds are charged Visually inspect each round for faults Run all rounds through rifle Load ten extra rounds and pick ten at random for testing: five for accuracy and five for velocity Box & label the remaining rounds and tape shut. This system has worked for me and I recommended it. Kudude | |||
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I've also used both for both. So I can't vote. Disenfranchised by reason of ecumenical ammunitionism. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Handloading extends your hunting fun Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Everyone says be afraid to handload for the .458 WM but I say if you are going to shoot a .458 WM you should reload. After testing and working up loads for mine for a while, I can testify that you can do better with good handloads. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Haven't shot a factory cartridge for years with the exception of .45ACP and .223. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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As someone who has only been on 10 African Safaris my experience as been that the only thing most PHs hate to see you show up with other than a Weatherby is handloaded ammunition. Just my opinion. | |||
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My experience has been the exact opposite to yours. But, the PH I normally hunt with is a gunsmith who builds his own rifles and reloades his own ammo, so we find some common grounds. He also uses a Weatherby rifle for his own backup The ones who do not handloads have shown a great deal of interest in both the rifles we have built ourselves, the wildcats we have designed and the ammo we use. Having said that, I think I understand what you are saying. Far too many hunters go to Africa with hardly any preparations whatsoever. And that makes it very hard for them to enjoy the hunt. | |||
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I have to agree with katie. How does the Ph know how carefully you reload your ammo? Is it dependable? I know a long time Guide in Alaska who will gladly provide you with factory ammo, no charge, for Brown Bear hunting if he knows you are using reloads. I wonder why he does that? You reckon he has had bad luck with customers using their own reloads? That's the only reason I can come up with. Saeeds Ph knows him and trusts him to reload his ammo correctly. | |||
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I said yes to handload all the way. Biggest reason for me is that I live in SA and buying premium grade ammo is totally out of my budget. R800/20 rounds. At current rate $115 US for 20 I must say that most hunters who do reload are not overnight reloaders so has been doing it for quite a while already. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Les, thanks for your question. I can see from the responses that many of the people answering reload like me. By reloading you can certainly get creative with your cartridge and your bullet since you have so many options to choose from. An example is the tremendously versitile .416 Remington. You can use the 350 grain Barnes-X Triple Shock, and consequently keep your velocity and range and accuracy quite high. Then you can load the 350 grain Barnes banded solid in order to have maximum penetration, and yet while hunting you have interchangability with the Triple Shock. This is the kind of custom-built versatility that is hard to come by in factory loaded ammunition. I recently had an opportunity to hunt with factory loaded .375 H&H for giant eland, Roan, etc. I was not expecting the poor performance of this cartridge (using Bearclaw and A-Frame) related to range limitations and penetration problems. It was as if I was using bearly adequate equipment for the job. I came away suspecting that people who hunt with factory loads often just don't know what they are missing. Conversely, those of us who reload are probably spoiled with the superior results we have become used to. That which is not impossible is compulsory | |||
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I agree with what kudude said. I have hunted Alaska, Canada, Africa, and Colorado and Montana for the past 40 years, taking well over 100 big game animals. Other than .22 LR's, most of my rifles, shotguns, and pistols have never shot a factory round. I handload and shoot well over 5000 rounds a year. On my last trip to Africa, when I checked the zero on my 7mm and .375 Rum, my PH brought my target back with a little smile on his face that told me he had no problems with my handloads. If you're careful with your handloads, they should work as good or better than factory ones. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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You know, it just all depends. I guess there are some who only reload and not handload. One is just putting components together and the other makes sure it's just right; it will chamber in rifle, the rounds are performance proven and won't stick in hotter climes. I've seen guys who reload and go straight to the hottest loads they can get and add more powder because they think the books are just playing it safe.   Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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I love homemade cookin a heck of alot batter then restaurant food...Same with ammo custom ammo will work but I like to know exactly what I put in my ammo...  Mike | |||
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I just simply do not shoot factory ammo under any conditions. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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Don't forget about custom loaded ammunition. This gives you the flexibility of specifying what you want; bullet type, velocity, seating depth, etc. It can be quite reasonable too! If anyone is interested, let me know. I'm working with Grizzly Cartridge Co. on some custom 458 Win Mag ammo right now. 400 grain Hawk (.050 jacket) at 2000 fps for North American game 420 grain WFNGC hardcast bullet at 1500 for target practice and big game. KDM Custom Bullets | |||
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Factory loads are very good. However handloads can wring the most accuracy, bullet selection, and is a whole lot of fun to boot. | |||
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There are a number of outfitters and guides that will not you use handloads. I for one stay clear of these simple minded outfitters cause if they don't understand handloading, I figure they don't understand hunting and guiding either. | |||
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I use only handloads for all my hunting as do my son and grandsons. While not worldwide experienced I have Elk hunted since the early 80's all over the West un-guided and know several guides and outfitters. I have been to Africa, Alaska and Alberta and in all my research have never heard an outfitter or guide say they would not take a handloader. If I ever do I will Sic you AR Idiots on them and then pick up the bones.  Good shooting.phurley | |||
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I've met a lot of hunters and I've never met a hand loader that didn't shoot more, know his guns, and the characteristics and ballistics of his ammo better than the average hunter. The additional confidence I gain from knowing that my gun will fire my load and put the bullet of my choosing where I am wanting it to go and do the job I intend it to do when it gets there, has helped to fill my trophy rooms and photo albums, not to mention the overall self satisfaction! "Then there is the memory way back in the 70's when I had my only misfire on a very nice Idaho bear with a high dollar factory loaded 300 Weathery Mag. Round". I'm pretty sure that was the last loaded ammo I purchased for hunting. | |||
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As SafariHunt said, the cost of premium ammo in RSA is prohibitive (When you can find it). But it goes further than that - it's the satisfaction of manufacturing ammo that is in every way equal to the top-dollar commercial stuff, shooting with it a lot (as one has to, developing, refining and fine-tuning a load), and ultimately the satisfaction of killing cleanly with your own hand-crafted ammo. But then, I'm a born tinkerer and experimenter  | |||
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The last time I hunted with factory ammo was, IIRC, in 1973. I'd bought an FN Mauser in .270 Win. and the dies, brass and powder hadn't come in yet and the deer hunt was only a week away. I'd have to say it worked just fine on a nice 4x4 buck on opening day, but for me, it just wasn't the same. I just get more satisfaction from hunting when I use ammo I have made and worked up for the specific rifle at hand. About the only time I buy any factory ammo these days is if I buy a new rifle. Then I'll buy a box of factory to get case ehad and expansion ring measurement data to use in working up my handloads. Paul B. | |||
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Handloads all the way.  I would not want to use factory ammo any more than I would want to use a borrowed rifle. Not been DG hunting, yet, but when I go will be using handloads. If I have a PH that has a problem with my ammo then I will find another PH. Handloading my own ammo gives me more satisfaction and makes me feel more connected to my hunt. Personally, I don't feel that handloads will give much of an "edge" over today's modern ammo provided that the premium bullet of your choice is used in factory loads. So you might be able to get an extra 75-100 fps or shrink the group down from 2 inches to an inch. At reasonable huntable ranges, is that really going to make a difference to a game animal vs the more important aspect of shot placement and a premium bullet?I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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+1 for handloading. Handloading is cheaper about across the board. Pick a bullet and compare the cost of reloading that bullet/cartridge combo with buying a factory load with that bullet. Then factor in that the round can be taylored to your rifle. Plus working up and trying out those loads gives you quality time with your rifle, increasing your familiarity with it. | |||
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Anyone who has a problem with handloads certainly doesn't need to even think about getting into shooting double rifles! There are few double rifles that will come even close to shooting properly whithout a very carefully worked up handload! Not to mention the $16 USD per round for Federal factory 470NE. I do use S&B factory in my 9.3X74r double, for stump shooting, and general playing, because it is cheap, and regulated fairly well in my rifle. There is another thing that gives me the RUBBS, the interchanging od the two words RE-loads, and HAND-loads. Of course handloads can be re-loads, and certainly re-loads are handloaded. However there is a difference between the two with me, when going into the weeds with a surley old Cape buffalo bull. my HANDLOADS, will be sized, trimmed, BRAND NEW BRASS, with hand weighed powder charges,for perfect regulation, and proper bullets,also seated properly,and every round tried in both chambers of my double rifle for perfect fit! That my friends is far better ammo than you will get from a factory where the ammo is loaded from powder measures, on gang presses, where every load is slightly different from the next, and at a much higher cost. I bought my first press in the early 1950s,and I have never , to this date had one missfire from a handloaded round in one of my rifles, out of several thousand rounds I've loaded, and shot! I have used factory ammo a couple of times, because of lack of time,on a short notice hunt, or lost ammo,in bolt rifles like my 375s, but it wasn't because it was better ammo, it was because on misfortune, or time constraints. Most of the ammo I use is not available at the local Wally-world, anyway.  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I think its prolly more likely to have problems with handloads, imagine a pissed off buffalo coming at you, you pull the trigger and here a pop, its the sound of the primer going off and now a bullet is lodged in the lands, you open the bolt and no bullet is in the brass, Its easy to forget to charge a case every now and then, I am sure others have done it to, I personally shake every load I make just to double check that I charged it in times when one needs a rifle, he tends to need it very badly.....PHC | |||
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Hunting with factory loads is like hunting with a rifle that is not yours or finding the game and having some else shoot it for you.Boring. | |||
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Shitaway you need to go and play with the stent in your head and let some fluid out to release the pressure. That's the second dumbest thing I've heard you say. But to get back on topic, I've used both. I prefer to make my own, but I just get more satisfaction when I load my own. It was a very rewarding experience when I used handloads for all my animals on my last trip to africa. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Asking a bunch of handloaders if they use factory loads is like asking a bunch of lesbians if they like guys. "shoot quick but take your time" | |||
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George, You are absolutely right. Handloaders and I'm one do have an elitist attitude about their home made ammo. It wasn't so long ago that handloads could pretty much be depended on to almost always be superior to factory fodder if prepared properly. Now though with the excellent factory ammo on the market once you find a load that shoots well in your rifle it will be hard to find a handload that is significantly better. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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If your ammo doesn't arrive with you in Africa, and a departing hunter you don't know offers you one of two boxes of your caliber ammo--one box of his handloads with what he says is a premium bullet, OR one box of standard Remington/winchester with a premium bullet---Which ya gonna choose? Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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Steve, I'd choose the factory ammo. All handloaders are not made equal and unless I knew the fellows loading procedures personally I would not even try firing the ammo in my rifle. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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MHY The ammo may not even fit into your rifle's chamber as it would've been sized for his/their rifle's chamber. A lot of folks neck-size but I prefer full-length sizing myself. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Factory Ammo or Handloads for Hunting?
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