Unofficial score 53.5 inches spread!!



Shot this morning...

NO way, too wide!!!???

Watch out one of these days they will charge like in SA 36"-38" set price 38"-40" set price and 40"+ you pay per inch extra.

Wow ... I didn't know they were cross breeding with long horns!

Female or male???

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Female or male???

are you serious?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Female or male???

are you serious?

Legit question, no? Isn't the largest ever recorded to have been taken a cow?

Yes, I would pay for an opportunity to shoot a buffalo like that!

Come on, guys, female? Open your eyes and look at that boss.

Bwanamich, I would pay the new elephant fee for that buff!

Wow!

Now here is a real question.

Would you pay three times the amount you were informed you would have to pay for a trophy after you had allready taken the trophy at an agreed to price? How could you go hunt in a country that has expressed and proven a desire to shit on the people bringing honest business and income to thier region. NEWS FLASH! They can do it to you again next year!

Dam nice buffalo though. I wouldn't spend any extra money for it. Just personally I play the game for the sake of the game. Would I like the bragging rights? You bet. Would I have any more fun hunting it compared to any other mature bull? Probably not.

God Bless Buffalo Hunting.

Yes, of course! Zee Boss! He is a pretty boy tho.

Bwanamich, no offense, I would not shoot that buff; it is not a mature male. The bosses are not hard, and the horn tips are way above the boss. It is not a female, the horns dont appear to grow from the side of the head. But it would be a magnificent trophy in a few years once the bosses developed and hardened
Again, each to his own, and no offense meant, but the "old breed" of PH's probably would agree with me.

No I wouldn't. I would rather have a dugga boy than that. I know a lot of you would like that but it doesn't do much for me unless I was into collecting buff and I am not.

That buffalo isn't mature? It's boss isn't hard? Sure fooled the hell outta me! I guess some of you guys would rather shoot tuskless cow elephants too, instead of that 100 pounder that was just taken.

That is definitely not an immature bull. He may not be as old, hard and crusty as some, but he is plenty old and hard enough to shoot with a clear conscience, IMHO. He has had ample time to pass his genes along to the next generation.

As to fee and cost increases, most, if not all, Tanzania safari outfitters will agree to hold their daily rates for you on an advance booking basis, even for two or three years.

But I have never seen or heard tell of one who would guarantee that government controlled fees and costs would not increase or be passed along. On the contrary, they will generally clearly state in their contracts or related documentation that all such fees are subject to increase by the government and will be borne by the hunter in that event.

Note that I am not in any way defending the Tanzanian government in the present situation. The lack of notice in this case, coupled with the up to threefold increases in some of the fees, are inexcusable and over-reaching.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
I guess some of you guys would rather shoot tuskless cow elephants too, instead of that 100 pounder that was just taken.

How do you figure that? If you're comparing this buff to a 100# ele you need help.

No, I'm not comparing it. I don't think anything in Africa compares to that. But a buffalo like this is not taken every day either, and I was surprised that some would pass over it to shoot an old, worn off or busted up buffalo because it may or may not have more of an attitude. If this buffalo was shot in Masailand, I can assure you it gives up nothing in the attitude dept. Those are the most surly, aggressive buffalo I have hunted.

Ok, so you were talking to me. Well, I hunt for myself and my own ideas of what has character (and often the character comes from the hunt itself). I have never stood in front of that buff so I cannot say for sure but it doesn't suit my idea of what a cape buff should look like. I'll put it this way...when I next go over I will not be looking for or holding out for something like that and I wouldn't pay the new fees for it (which was the question).

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
Bwanamich, no offense, I would not shoot that buff; it is not a mature male. The bosses are not hard . . . it would be a magnificent trophy in a few years once the bosses developed and hardened

Say what? Not sure what a hard boss looks like then. I agree with you that to each his own, I happen to like a wider boss and a deeper curl than width, but to suggest that the boss on that bull is not hard is stretching it.

If that one and this one were side by side which would you shoot? It all depends on what you like. Both buff are unusual. I just think too much width looks unnatural...even cartoonish.

I just noticed that the buff in question was shot today. I would like to congratulate the hunter on a very scarce trophy. He is probably shaking his head at the idea that any of us would turn this down. Who knows what we would do if we were behind a gun this morning instead of a keyboard?

Between these two I'd shoot the first one w/o hesitation. This one looks young to me, bosses aren't grown together, jusging from that strip of hair an inch or more wide between them. And, I don't care for that much drop in the horns. Neither represent MY ideal buffalo, but the first one is not far off! And yes, I would pay the current trophy fee for him...$1500.

Howdy Folks,

Let me explain that I never said I would not shoot the buffalo. I just said that I would not pay extra money to go kill it.

Now my next point is that many of these hunters entered into contracts with US operated outfitters. These contracts can allow for changes in government fees in the future. However, changing fees on allready completed transactions, such as a client paying his final ballance and returning home to discover he will recieve another bill for more fees or not get his trophies, constitutes fraud in the USA. No contract within the USA that sets allowances for illegal acts is legal or binding. In those cases the US outfitters will be forced to foot the bill or suffer both legal and civil consequences.

My oh my. Some of these posts are trully classic!!

Bwana Bunduki - to answer your question its a mature bull. Pls don´t doubt that as it would make you appear.... "stubborn"

To those that said they would NOT have pressed the trigger I would really like to see that happen. I bet that your PH would s**t all over you if he heard you say "no, i´m not gonna shoot that one". He would probably say fine and shoot it himself from under your nose....

Indlovu: Please, please tell me which "old breed" ph would turn it down? I really want to meet the man. I´m serious!

Smarterthanu: The trophy fees for buff have not trippled. They have gone up by about $700 only.

Yukon delta: a free ranging buff bull that goes over 53 inches is absolutely comparable today to a 100 lbs ele IMHO. When was the last time you heard of a TRUE 53+ incher being taken in free ranging concessions? Forget about the aesthetics of the horns. I would rather shoot this trophy than the 118 lbs ele taken by Kai Uwe Denker in Namibia a few years ago for example.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
If that one and this one were side by side which would you shoot? It all depends on what you like. Both buff are unusual. I just think too much width looks unnatural...even cartoonish.

I would shoot bothof course, starting with the first one

Howdy Bwanamich,

I never said trophies price on buffalo went up 3X. But they did go up 2X. And personally my point is not to spend money with governements that would change a previously agreed fee 10 cents. They can not be trusted and that is not a government I want to do business with. If they will screw you in this department what will they do next?

By the way congrats on that buffalo.

Daily Rate to Safari Company: $1,250
Airfare to Tanzania: $3,000
Trophy Fee for Cape Buffalo: $4,000
Taking a Rowland Ward Top-25 Buffalo: Priceless

Mich,

Not what you were expecting in the way of responses I'll bet. I just about snorted coffee all over my keyboard reading some of these...

Was it your client?? Amazing buff. Reminids me of an old Winchester add showing each of the big five. The buff looked alot like the one in your picture.

Best regards;
Brett

I would certtainly NOT pass it up. To some it may seem the right thing to do. But I wouldn't leave it for the next guy or to nature's fate. I'm a rank amateur to all this but I think I've seen cows with fully grown in heads. Am I wrong? By pretty boy I meant he did indeed look young but not too young to shoot. I'd say he's ready from this age on. Robertson references animals that should or shouldn't be shot and blames Americans for taking trophies too young and not leaving them to mature. Froget about it. What one would really be doing is leaving them for another hunter. No way, not me.

Not my client. PH was Andy Payne. Same area produced a 47 inch about 1 month ago.

Guys,

Mich has said it all. I personally would shoot that massive buffalo in a heart beat and if any of you wouldn't I would have to question your sanity. This trophy is equally as rare as a 100 pound elephant, 65" kudu, 50" sable or any other trophy that measures in the outer stratosphere.

As for not liking how it looks let me ask you a question. How much attention did you actually pay to the configuration of horns on that buffalo you shot? I would venture to say that you in most cases shot the buffalo the PH pointed out with little thought to horn shape. And you were quite happy with the buff no matter how he looked. That's how it should be particularly with your first few buff.

Speaking of cost I would pay and extra $750 to shoot this buffalo. Are you kidding?????

Mark

Jheeez! Of course it is a bull. If you think it is a cow I suggest you study some more pictures of buff. Would I shoot it? Possibly not as I prefer buffalo with horns that drop straight down along the face before they grow out sideways. On the last day, for sure.

JohnS,

The second bull is older than the first bull. Notice that the horn tips of No. 2 are worn below the boss height and are more blunt. Also notice that at the front edge of No. 1 you can see some boss that has not hardened as yet. Not much but he has a way to go to be fully hard. The idea that the horns grow together as they age and that a bull isn't old unless they grow together is a old African fairly tale. I have a Zim bull head here that has 3 1/4" of space between the bosses but his tips are worn stubs, he had scars from at least two different encounters from lions and he had only 3 incisors left.

465H&H

well for the increased fees I'd hold out for at least an 80 incher

I believe it to be a bull, and the bosses are hard enough to be hard bosses, a little hair between but still very shootable..however I agree that given a few more years it would be a truly awesome bull... I would like to think I could pass it up but not at all sure that would be the case..

I can understand why some would think it was a cow, it could almost be, based on pictures that many have looked at and for those that have not spent a lot of time looking over buffalo.. but I don't think its a cow, but that is not an out of line question I wouldn't think.

PSmith,
If those are Tanz Safari costs they are sure higher than most by a good margine..Trophy fee on a buffalo today is about $2200, Airfare is $2000, and daily rates are $1250 to $1500..I think that my figures would represent a good average figure..Our 10 day Buff 1x1 hunts for 2008 will run $2050.00 all inclusive of one buffalo, charter and every thing but tips and Dar gun fees. $2200 for the second bull. Plainsgame is up about a hundred dollars per head on some of the 5 animals and the same on the rest...That is up from $15,550. unless things change and that won't happen.

I'd shoot him twice.

Todd

I don't understand

Some people here who have hunted buffalo before don't know if this is a mature hard bossed bull or a cow ???

That animal is the Holly Grail of the buffaloes !!!

BTW, I have never shot an african buff...yet

L

I would come out shooting on that buff!

Trophy of several life times!

Best Regards,
Dave

Bwanamich,
That is an amazing animal. Can you tell us anything about the hunt and/or hunters?

Boys, I'm no expert, but I do know this much:

A. No-shit Sherlock that is a bull
B. No-shit Sherlock that is definitively a hard-bossed shootable bull that's ready NOW
C.That I'd pay the trophy fee and then some
D.Commit un-natural acts with a farm animal for trophy like that. I mean jeez gents, some of you are picking flyshit out of pepper here! jorge

"AR" Buffalo - April 2007