Jo, firstly thanks for your balanced response now.

Yes I noticed that even your positive comment has been deleted from the FB blog as were all the hunters' posts.

Secondly I hope you now realise that many of the anti hunters are actually radicals and they just post emotional and hateful abuse on their own sites and on others. I hope you also realise that these people are violating intellectual property rights and laws to perpetuate their hate message. These people are not balanced and fair minded citizens.

Thirdly, you need to read bit between the lines here as you have raised a few hackles in the past and not everyone may trust your motives. You would gain more credibility here by just working behind the scene and conveying hunters' views fairly and accurately. Do not expect hugs of welcome with open arms from hunter just yet. Once you are seen as a reasonable and fairminded person who is not one of the extremist haters, (in the long term) you will be respected and your credibility will be established with most hunters.

JMTBW.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Regarding removal of posts they claim only abusive posts are removed. And before you say it i know the hunters posts were not abusive i read them. Then others claim nothing has been removed. Again i know this isnt true as i had a post removed myself.

Far be it from me to toss a kudo to JLO, in this case I have to do so. I dropped into that Facebook site earlier this morning and made numerous post to the various photos posted. Within hours they were all deleted.

In all fairness to JLO, she has been on there advocating that they at least listen to our arguments and to quit deleting them. While she still says she is against hunting, she also repeatedly states the she understand the value of hunting as a management tool.

It also shows, I believe, the wisdom of Saeed in not banning her (as big of a contrarian PIA as she has been on here) she is at least standing and telling the antis they need to at least listen to our side and pointing out their hypocrisy to them.

I also think she is seeing first hand our observations of anti behavior and attitudes are accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Far be it from me to toss a kudo to JLO, in this case I have to do so. I dropped into that Facebook site earlier this morning and made numerous post to the various photos posted. Within hours they were all deleted.

In all fairness to JLO, she has been on there advocating that they at least listen to our arguments and to quit deleting them. While she still says she is against hunting, she also repeatedly states the she understand the value of hunting as a management tool.

It also shows, I believe, the wisdom of Saeed in not banning her (as big of a contrarian PIA as she has been on here) she is at least standing and telling the antis they need to at least listen to our side and pointing out their hypocrisy to them.

I also think she is seeing first hand our observations of anti behavior and attitudes are accurate.

Not so fast with the Kudo to JLO/Mrs. Burn.
She is playing good cop/bad cop,
or rather dumb cop/tricky cop.
Everything she wants to pester Saeed and others with spelling out for her has already been posted on this thread and other threads, many times before, ad nauseum.
She could search her previous appearances here, and copy the responses and paste to her friends.

If she has to ask again, she does not want to know.
The people she wants to tell it to do not want to know.
They have funny reflexes, these anti-hunting imbeciles:
Tap there heads with the hammer of truth, and their knees jerk and they simultaneously suck their thumbs.
Odd indeed.
They are "wired funny."
Queer neurology.

Copy and paste that, Mrs. Burn.
Will you use your husband's Facebook account for that too?

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Far be it from me to toss a kudo to JLO, in this case I have to do so. I dropped into that Facebook site earlier this morning and made numerous post to the various photos posted. Within hours they were all deleted.

In all fairness to JLO, she has been on there advocating that they at least listen to our arguments and to quit deleting them. While she still says she is against hunting, she also repeatedly states the she understand the value of hunting as a management tool.

It also shows, I believe, the wisdom of Saeed in not banning her (as big of a contrarian PIA as she has been on here) she is at least standing and telling the antis they need to at least listen to our side and pointing out their hypocrisy to them.

I also think she is seeing first hand our observations of anti behavior and attitudes are accurate.

People that are "against hunting" but recognise its "management value" are still the enemy.

Hunting is a natural part of human existence.

Being against hunting is the same as being against human nature.

Don't be fooled by people pretending to be in favour but instead want to pigeon hole and control hunting for its "management" value only. When it isn't needed for management, hunting is doomed.

Hunting is a human right.

Gents:

I fully concur with all the above and I still believe there is little chance of actually changing the mind of an anti and JLO's as well.

All I was attempting to do was point out that she was on an anti web site and advocating that they, for whatever reason, not delete hunter posts.

Just to be clear we all know i am certainly not a fan of hunting. We all also know though some choose to ignore the fact that over time spent here i have come to accept and acknowledge that hunting can be used as a very valuable hunting tool.

My reasons for posting on stop trophy hunting nows page are many.
1. I think it is deplorable that they are allowed to call names and post death threats. And this is depite the owner of the page stating anything like that will be removed.
2. I believe that no matter what the topic all sides, arguments etc should be presented and then people should be allowed to make their own minds up where they stand.
I personally may not like, agree with many things hunters have to say but i will defend your right to say them and be heard all day long.

As for my asking for help to post the argument for hunting as a conservation tool, yes i could present this argument on my own but i felt that someone here could summarise it far better than i can.

Trust, i do not expect you to trust me, like me and i do not expect anything other than for you to see me as the enemy. As an aside i do not see you all as the enemy, i see you as people as passionate about saving wildlife as i am.

quote:

People that are "against hunting" but recognise its "management value" are still the enemy.

Hunting is a natural part of human existence.

Being against hunting is the same as being against human nature.

Don't be fooled by people pretending to be in favour but instead want to pigeon hole and control hunting for its "management" value only. When it isn't needed for management, hunting is doomed.

Hunting is a human right.

I'm going to clarify here, when i said managed hunting i was not talking about the management of wildlife i was talking about the management of the hunting industry.
Honestly i do not believe there will be a time when wildlife does NOT need to be managed, therefore you will not lose your right to hunt on this score.

RIP,

I'm pretty sure you don't really want me to post that to the facebook page considering it would make you look a little childish like them.
The facebook i am using is a joint account, my husband never uses it to be fair but thats why both our names are on it, joint account.

Just went back over there (slow day what can I say) to see what's happening. Have to say that JLO and a couple of others are giving them a pretty good go. So, far all the posts by the pro hunters are civil and seem pretty factual.

Stop Trophy Hunting

Jo, I had posted almost 2 pages of very polite responses about using hunting as a conservation tool. I asked for response and opinion. I tried 3 seperate times to get a dialogue going. What I got besides the namme calling was a couple of death threats and to have my posts deleted out of hand. The threats I could care less about. I may be old and overweight but if someone is stupid enough to try....Well lets just say some of my time from a previous life will not make someones day. That said, it isnt ok to kill an animal but it is ok to kill a person? Really? Now how is the sociopath? So just what would you like to know? Also what exactly is it you are opposed to? I will honestlly answer anything I can for you, but there are many here with much more experience. Would you like to discuss the hunting and killing of my elephant and how that was a conservation measure? In fact it was a perfect example of how hunting can help.

I apologize for my terrible typing and grammar. As many of you know I have had severe health issues and hypoxia has done some real damage.

Did any of you guys that reported the site actually put in a notice of copyright infringement?

Here is a little on facebooks response.

Re: Copyright Notification Complaint: #396174053727335

I provided as much detail as I could. If you will look at the original
report again you will see it. The longer this takes the more expensive it is
going to get. If you want to drag your feet that is fine. I have also
received contact from many people who say that after notifying you nothing
has been done. It makes me wonder why you would not freeze the site in
question until this is resolved. Do you really think all of those photos are
there with permission to be ridiculed? Monday morning I will be contacting a
lawyer and we will proceed from there. It is not my responsibility to police
your site. I also have no idea of how to provide the names of responsible
users and dates and times. That would be your IT departments job as well. I
am sure can hire an expert to do that for you if needed. I apparently have
been banned from the site in question so even if I knew how to do what you
ask I couldn’t. I am just an average guy who is not particularly tech savvy.
I actually stumbled on the site in question by accident while looking for
something for someone else. It wasn’t until a couple days later that I even
realized my photo had been stolen and posted as well. Would you like me to
have several people I know contact you as well about the theft and posting
of their photos? It can easily be done. So the first thing I would ask is
for you to provide contact details for the owner of the particular page in
question. I will then have an attorney in South Africa go after her as well.
I actually believed you would do something to help here, but it appears you
are stonewalling. As I said the price of doing business just went up,
particularly after spending the day reading the law about copyright
infringement and remedy.

-----Original Message-----
From: The Facebook Team
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:37 AM
To: mdshunter@glwb.net
Subject: Re: Copyright Notification Complaint: #396174053727335

Hi Michael,

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Based on the
information you provided, it appears that you are reporting a photo album.
It is unclear to us what photos in this album you believe are infringing or
violating your rights.

Please provide web addresses (URLs) leading to the exact photos you believe
infringe your right(s). You can also provide a description of the content in
question. Include as much detail as possible, such as names of responsible
users and dates/times. Please note that providing a direct URL to the
content in question may expedite the processing of your claim.

Once we receive this information, we would be happy to look into the matter
further.

Thanks for contacting Facebook,

Zed
User Operations
Facebook

-----Original Message to Facebook-----
From: mdshunter@glwb.net
To:
Subject: Copyright Notification Complaint: #396174053727335

What right is being infringed/violated?: copyright
Identify the content on Facebook that you allege is infringing/violating.
Please provide URLs to the specific content wherever possible:
https://www.facebook.com/media...6918922995288&type=3
Check if applicable: no access
Provide information sufficient for us to locate the content on Facebook:
There is no allegement. It is a fact. A user on your site has stolen not
only one of my pictures but pictures from several other people I know and
posted them in a derogatory way. I am not even sure where the person that
runs the site got ahold of my copyrighted picture as I have never posted it
on facebook although I do maintain an acoount here. I am registered here as
mdshunter. My name is Michael Smith. The site with all of the stolen
copyrighted material is StopTrophyHuntingNow. I have attempted to engage
them in a dialogue but they have just deleted my posts. Many of the people I
know who have pictures illegally posted on the site have sent cease and
desist notices but have repeatedly been ignored. I can not speak for anyone
but myself but as such I can only hold this site responsible as the
facilitator of such illegal activity. I am hereby giving you notice of a
bill in the amount of an initial fee of $200.00 for access to the photo and
and additional fee of $50.00 per day for everyday it is up after and
including todays notice. This site infringes freely upon the copyrighted
material of many people and it must stop immeadiately or pay the appropriate
lic. fees. In the photography and advertising world that is the norm and
quite frankly my bill is very cheap. It is intended to emphasize my point
but is no less a legal notice of account due.
site is stoptrophyhuntingnow
pic group is increasingly endangered wildlife shot for pleasure
pic is row 17 pic 4 right side



Describe or identify your copyrighted work: Myself sitting in front of
elephant
Green hat sunglasses orange bad on neck knees all skinned up rifle is
stainless
It is row 17 picture 4 the farthest on the right
I can easily proove when the picture was taken, where, and that no
permission was given.

Contact Information: I am the rights holder, reporting on my own behalf.
Your Name: Michael Smith
Your Company: personal
Your Title: owner

Where are you (or those you represent) based?: USA
: By submitting this notice, you declare that you have a good faith belief
that use of the copyrighted content described above, in the manner you have
complained of, is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the
law. You also declare that the information in this notice is accurate. And
finally, you declare under penalty of perjury that you are the owner or
authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive copyright that is
allegedly infringed.
Do you agree?: yes
Electronic Signature: Michael Smith

-----End Original Message to Facebook----- ----End Original Message to Facebook-----

I deleted some personal contact info from this. I didnt want mmy name, address and phone # all over the webb.

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your offer of help but i think it is pretty futile to present them with anything relating to hunting as a conservation tool.
I have repeatedly tried to engage them in conservation related discussion and they just ignore it. Either they have no knowledge at all or they dont want to debate reasonably.
I have a feeling most are people who have just come across the pics, been outraged but have no interest in conservation per se.
Regarding the pics of hunters with kills they claim they did not put them up but that hunters have done so to rile them. I having read this thread know this not to be true. They also claim hunters have deleted their own comments, i also know this not to be true from this thread.

Honestly i'm completely baffled by them, i have never come across antis like them and can now understand the hunters opinion of your average anti.

Definition of an anti?
The ultimate hypocrite

If that is aimed at me Saeed i'm no hypocrite.
Take a look at yourself and your connections before blasting me for being anything.

You claim antis wont listen, perhaps you're right but I an anti by your definition have tried to do more to get YOUR message out there over the last couple of days than you have sat in your chair being a keyboard critic of everything i say and do.

Jo,

It is pointless trying to convince the nitwits on that page of anything that makes sense!
They do not want to hear the facts.

And I for one certainly do NOT need you to do anything for on my behalf.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
You made the pages of 'Stop Trohpy Hunting Now' on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/pages...95288&type=3&theater

This link to Saeed's photo is now dead altogether, and I could not find the photo in the gallery, what?

Who is deleting what now?

www.NRAPVF.org/ObamaFactSheet

Hi Mike
I reported the copy right violation on about 4 photos the one with Saeed and also 3 others with Lion that a friend of mine guided.

They wanted the URL of the photo in question I just copied and pasted from the top of the page.

They also wanted to know if they where mine I said no. They said what is my relationship to the copyright holder I said friend.

I got notifications sent to me from all 4 that they will be looking into it an then POOF the photos where missing.
But what about all the other photos on the site from other hunters ?? does each and every guy have to visit the site identify the photo in question and then report each individually, as this takes time.
Cant they ask the facebook page creator which photos are his/hers ?? as non are im sure.

I most certainly didn't do it on your behalf Saeed. I did it because i wanted to know for myself how much the people who posted on that page actually know about conservation or whether they were just passers by reacting to a pic.
I can't profess to be an expert on conservation myself of course and i know we (generic) have different ideas (certainly on the lion) how conservation should be done. However at least i can see the benefit of hunting as a conservation tool.

I am saddened that there are those out there who would rather see an animal extinct than see it hunted, if hunting be the way to conserve it.

I know you dislike me Saeed but i do not see the need for you to attack me every time i post or do something. I am very grateful you have allowed me to continue posting here but i do wish you would address my posts rahter than just poking fun or trying to be offensive.

Jo, The lion is another perfect example. You think we disagree but I will bet we are more in agreement than not. I would really like to discuss this with you at length. Probably best if we take it private and dont clutter up the forum. It will take some time I imagine.
Funny you should also mention the point of the Peta and Hsus people on hunting vs extinction. the recent lawsuit on the scimitar horned oryx and addax is the destruction of the species. It was the breeders, ranchers,and hunters who gave these animals value and saved them. Now with the new ruling they not only have no value but cant be bred or raised. It also costs an awfull lot of money to feed any existing animals. Not to mention all the government intrusion, redtape and expense. So that is it for them. When Peta and Hsus were confronted about it their spokesperson said "I would rather see the species extinct than have them hunted."
I still would like to know what your problem with hnting is. I cant speak for everyone but most of the hunters I know respect the animals they hunt. As far as that goes, many of us own animals either as pets and or as stock and treat them better than most people treat their children. The particullar elephant I hunted and killed actually saved two others. AS I said would love to discuss sone real facts and even opinions. Maybe you will understand us a little better and we will understand you. I am not attempting to convert you as much as giving you enough information to allow you to make a rational decision.

Looks like they've done another round of banning and deleting - even looks like ol' JLO got the boot too.

There was one rabid anti guy who claimed that a "new study by Dr. Parker in MN" proved that lions would be extinct in 30-years if lion hunting wasn't banned now. This one hunter posted a link to the good doctors web page and pointed out that, in fact, is not what the study said. In fact what the Dr.'s study actually said was, if only 6+ year old male lions where hunted, their population could be sustained indefinitely. When the anti guy said that was just the the hunter's opinion and asking what the hunter's educational background was, etc, etc, and if he didn't have a PHD his opinion didn't mean ****. The hunter simply replied to the anti that it wasn't his opinion but the opinion of the guy with the PHD and all the anti had to do was just click on the link he,the hunter, provided and actually read the good Dr.'s report for himself -

When they started down their "poor creature who was just minding it's own business" and "they just have a right to live free from fear" mantra, this same hunter started posting links to Youtube videos showing baboons killing an Impala fawn and eating it alive and a very long clip of a lion pride killing a female hippo and calf and ripping chunks of flesh out of them while still alive and one of a hippo killing a lion. The anti's heads must have exploded cause he got the axe and all of his posts too. Every post he made was respectful and factual. Pretty sure the video clips pushed the anti suck-ups over the edge -

Funny thing is that all of the posts the pro-hunting folks that got axed posted were civil, no name calling, no threats, and nearly all of the anti posts were, and continue to be, laughably ignorant (most can't even correctly identify the species they are looking at), pretty hateful and filled with violent threats even though the site owner continues to claim they welcome hunters comments as long as they are respectful and will delete hateful posts and posts that contain threats of violence. -

I for one slammed JLO pretty hard here in the past - still believe she deserved it at the time, but I have to say she really and truly did constantly advocated they allow the hunters to post and repeatedly put forward and supported nearly all of the pro hunting arguments we pretty soundly beat her over the proverbial head with here.

She may not totally agree with hunting, but I am also pretty sure with her recent experience with the rabid side of the anti community she may have had her eyes opened a bit more too. While she may never ever become a hunter - and that is OK in my book - I don't think she will become a rabid/militant anti now either.

There would be the real issue. We are able to choose our own path each according to belief. The difference is we do not try to cram our belief down the anti's throats. If you choose to not partake in hunting that is ok with me. The reverse is not true. I believe that is a bit of an understatement. LOL! Then on top of that the vile comments and rabid responses that have no basis in fact. Even Jo has come to realize most of the posters on that site have no knowledge of the animals llet alone conservation.

Mike,

Jo is one of the lesser evils of the anti movement.

She is no friends of ours, that has been made very clear from what she has written here.

Her aim is no different from the aim of the rest of them.

You have hit the nail on the head.

There is a lot of activities that I do not much care for, including quite a few that I find utterly disgusting.

But, I don't spent my time trying to stop those who partake in those activities.

Life is far too short to get into this sort of mentality.

The antis are not just hypocrites, buit they have no life either.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Just to be clear we all know i am certainly not a fan of hunting. We all also know though some choose to ignore the fact that over time spent here i have come to accept and acknowledge that hunting can be used as a very valuable hunting tool.

My reasons for posting on stop trophy hunting nows page are many.
1. I think it is deplorable that they are allowed to call names and post death threats. And this is depite the owner of the page stating anything like that will be removed.
2. I believe that no matter what the topic all sides, arguments etc should be presented and then people should be allowed to make their own minds up where they stand.
I personally may not like, agree with many things hunters have to say but i will defend your right to say them and be heard all day long.

As for my asking for help to post the argument for hunting as a conservation tool, yes i could present this argument on my own but i felt that someone here could summarise it far better than i can.

Trust, i do not expect you to trust me, like me and i do not expect anything other than for you to see me as the enemy. As an aside i do not see you all as the enemy, i see you as people as passionate about saving wildlife as i am.

Hunting is an activity acceptable in its own right.

Man has always hunted and always will.

It does not need to be justified as a conservation or management tool.

Hunting as an activity however does provide value for wildlife, and if part of a wildlife sustainable management plan does aid the population of wildlife as a means of controlling population, adding value to wildlife eg where there are competing claims on resources such as land, an aid to anti-poaching, and many more benefits and reasons.

As well as providing good free range organic meat to man's table.

Trophy hunting is a hunting type which adds the highest monetary value to wildlife. As opposed to pure meat hunting.

m3taco,

I've not quite got the boot but i'm well on my way as they have warned me!

Mike,

I will happily discuss the lion et al with you but as you previously said not on this thread, no derailment :-)
I will contact you by private message though it may not be today as i have work soon.

quote:

Even Jo has come to realize most of the posters on that site have no knowledge of the animals llet alone conservation.

I'm embarassed by that web page to be honest. There is no substance to it just name calling and threats on hunters. I for one certainly do not advocate such behaviour.

Saeed,

quote:

The antis are not just hypocrites, buit they have no life either.

Believe me i have a life, a pretty full and busy one. I run a pub, i'm a writer, speedway fan who goes to as many meets as possible, i love historical houses and go to those, i read tons, i love to walk my dog, take him to the seaside, try my best to learn about and participate in the conservation of wildlife, i embroider, in the middle of a lion, lioness and lion cub one at present. I'm pretty sure theres more but it doesnt matter.

quote:

She is no friends of ours, that has been made very clear from what she has written here.

Her aim is no different from the aim of the rest of them.

My aim is to conserve wildlife however that is to be done. I don't want to see hunting banned altogether, so prey tell me how i am the same as all of 'them'?

NitroX,

quote:

Hunting is an activity acceptable in its own right.

For you maybe, but not everyone feels the same!
What is and what is not acceptable is all personal opinion.
For example i despise the 'c' word and do not find it acceptable. Many people do though and use it on a frequent basis.
Many here did not find the hunting legend lion kill acceptable that the vid was posted in another thread. However the hunters who took part and perhaps others out there will and do find it acceptable.
What i'm trying to say is that there are no definites when it comes to something being acceptable or not.

quote:

Man has always hunted and always will.

On this i am sure you are right. Hunting will always exist in some form or another.
And whilst it remains legal all round i will defend your right to participate.

quote:

It does not need to be justified as a conservation or management tool.

No it doesn't, you're right. Whilst hunting is allowed you are doing nothing wrong by going and just hunting for the pleasure of it.
However when it comes to convincing people that it is not all about the enjoyment (for some) unfortunately people want evidence, proof and therefore justification.

quote:

Hunting as an activity however does provide value for wildlife, and if part of a wildlife sustainable management plan does aid the population of wildlife as a means of controlling population, adding value to wildlife eg where there are competing claims on resources such as land, an aid to anti-poaching, and many more benefits and reasons.

As well as providing good free range organic meat to man's table.

Trophy hunting is a hunting type which adds the highest monetary value to wildlife. As opposed to pure meat hunting.

I don't disagree.

I do find it some what hard to believe that you (generic) cannot sometimes understand why people are so hostile towards you and hunting.
As you all know the press do a pretty good job of berating you and there is very little out there to counteract that.
Just for example the recent Trump hunting trip and the press coverage it recieved. The UK's press went pretty big on this and it resulted in it being mentioned in my pub last night by an outraged customer. He wasn't even aware that hunts like this were legal never mind any conservation benefits it may or may not have.
Now i didnt get into a long convo with him, time did not allow, but he is now interested in learning more how hunting can be a conservation tool. Before you say anything i dont want kudos for this but it just goes to show that there are people out there willing to listen to you if you would just put yourselves out there.

quote:

No it doesn't, you're right. Whilst hunting is allowed you are doing nothing wrong by going and just hunting for the pleasure of it.
However when it comes to convincing people that it is not all about the enjoyment (for some) unfortunately people want evidence, proof and therefore justification.

Why the hell should we justify what we do to others?

You are not against hunting altogether, you are just against trophy hunting!

I love that!

100% of the people from rest of the world go hunt in Africa are trophy hunters, so your plan to eliminate that.

We don't listen to the British press!

England has no press, only tabloids. And they do exactly as your friends on Facebook.

A while back I answerd someone on the Daily Mail, my post never made it!

I have done the same on the Sun website, again, it never was posted.

Saeed,

quote:

Why the hell should we justify what we do to others?

I never said you had to justify it, quite the opposite.

quote:

You are not against hunting altogether, you are just against trophy hunting!

I love that!

Where did i say that? Come on Saeed put your money where your mouth is on this one!

quote:

100% of the people from rest of the world go hunt in Africa are trophy hunters, so your plan to eliminate that.

Again show me where i said this!!

quote:

We don't listen to the British press!

England has no press, only tabloids. And they do exactly as your friends on Facebook.

Really? I'd beg to differ.
Most press do the same thing no matter what country Saeed, hunters aint over popular anywhere and you know it.
I know you have no real concern for life, animal or human but some people do Saeed and that is why they act in the manner they do.

quote:

A while back I answerd someone on the Daily Mail, my post never made it!

I have done the same on the Sun website, again, it never was posted.

Shame but why bother when you dont care what the UK thinks and they only have gutter press?

It is usually the 'i don't care what anyone thinks' attitude that brings people down. I'd be careful holding that attitude.

quote:

I don't want to see hunting banned altogether

What does the above statement mean then?

Saeed,

It means that i feel hunting is a valuable conservation tool when managed properly as most of it appears to be. By managed i mean legal and above board.
My doubts concerning hunting are in place for endangered species or species in decline. I personally believe that species like the lion should have a temporary ban on hunting. However i do understand your (generic) argument for not doing this.
From a rational point of view i would then have no problem if lion numbers increased having them hunted again.
However i have to say I'm still looking and reading info on both sides of the fence so can't honestly say my mind is totally made up where i stand on this issue.

I seriously am not looking to take away your right to hunt.

Of course, your "only" concern is with endangered species!

Let us start with banning these, and then we will get on to others.

Thank you for removing any doubts I might have about you.

I'm a little worried about your reading and comprehension skills Saeed.

I say this

quote:

It means that i feel hunting is a valuable conservation tool when managed properly as most of it appears to be. By managed i mean legal and above board.
My doubts concerning hunting are in place for endangered species or species in decline. I personally believe that species like the lion should have a temporary ban on hunting. However i do understand your (generic) argument for not doing this.
From a rational point of view i would then have no problem if lion numbers increased having them hunted again.
However i have to say I'm still looking and reading info on both sides of the fence so can't honestly say my mind is totally made up where i stand on this issue.

I seriously am not looking to take away your right to hunt.

And you read this

quote:

Of course, your "only" concern is with endangered species!

Let us start with banning these, and then we will get on to others.

Thank you for removing any doubts I might have about you.

I would ask you to put your money where your mouth is again and prove i said

quote:

Of course, your "only" concern is with endangered species!

Let us start with banning these, and then we will get on to others.

but it is actually very clear from my quoted post above that i didn't!!

JLO:

If you still have access to that pathetic anti site how about loading up that link of the official press release from the ZIM government stating that everything the Trumps did was legal, had full permits and in was in compliance with all international hunting treaties/agreements. Bet that will make their heads explode!!!

I can already predict a list of their responses.

1. There will still the their normal and repetitive death threats/physical harm and the OMG crap and general personal attacks
2. The Trumps paid off the government.
3. The government is just trying to cover it up to protect the Trumps
4. Just because it is legal doesn't make it right BS

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
JLO:

If you still have access to that pathetic anti site how about loading up that link of the official press release from the ZIM government stating that everything the Trumps did was legal, had full permits and in was in compliance with all international hunting treaties/agreements. Bet that will make their heads explode!!!

I can already predict a list of their responses.

1. There will still the their normal and repetitive death threats/physical harm and the OMG crap and general personal attacks
2. The Trumps paid off the government.
3. The government is just trying to cover it up to protect the Trumps
4. Just because it is legal doesn't make it right BS

I wouldn't worry too much about them not having read it - they probably spent sleepless nights or stood vigil waiting for the news to break.
Unfortunately it wasn't in their favor and are now probably spending more sleepless nights trying to figure out how to overturn the findings of the investigating committee

I dont much think anyone there gives a damn about the truth.

I am now doing two things. Backtracking my photo to determine where it was stolen from. The second is to identify as many people and or websites as I can and notify them as well any help there would be appreciated. I see Teresa Groenwald and regardless what you think about her ex husband or her she deserverves the same respect in this regard. I also with the help of my cousin determined a majority of the plains game shots came from here.www.jpklleinhanssafaris.com
I have sent them an email. I dont know how to get ahold of Teresa at this point. I think we as a group should go through each picture and try to find the owner and or outfitter. Then let them sort it out. What are your thoughts folks?

Hey all, it looks like they are tearing into booking agent Bob Jacobson as well. Here's the link. Maybe some of us can help the guy out?

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pa...aris/198496013513424

I don't know beans about Facebook but it would be part of a good "COIN" (Counter Insurgency) Operation for someone to set up a counter Facebook page...maybe call the page "Promote Trophy Hunting Now". Set it up to look similar to theirs with a "Mission Statement" something like....

"Our purpose is to promote the value and conservation that well regulated sport hunting provides to ensure sustainability and growth of all animal populations, habitats and ecosystems - and to expose the fraud and propaganda of the anti hunting community as well as the chief propagandists.

Then go to their site and pull photos of the anti posters from their posts, their post contents and Facebook pages (not their friends just them), post them for the hunting community to make the same personal attacks on them - NO DEATH THREATS OR THREATS OF PHYSICAL HARM OR VIOLENCE!! Just post the same kind of drivel they post about manhood/womanhood, looks, lack of intelligence etc.

Let them know it is up and running and let the fun and games begin!!!!

quote:

If you still have access to that pathetic anti site how about loading up that link of the official press release from the ZIM government stating that everything the Trumps did was legal, had full permits and in was in compliance with all international hunting treaties/agreements. Bet that will make their heads explode!!!

I've just read it and i'm afraid what would make their head explode is the fact the leopard is described as an endangered species allowed to be hunted under strict controls.
I don't think the article would do you any favours because of that!

I just tried to link to the mental midgets fb page and it's unavailable....jack wagons!

I went to the page directly on FB and here's what you do: report any and all threats of violence; report any vulgar language and report the page as harassing a friend. Also, write FB a note explaining this page is publishing contact info so that domestic terrorists can have access to outfitters phone/address information. These sick individuals are consorting with anti-hunting terrorists and don't think they do not exist. I've had several pages banned for doing just this sort of thing.

If one is oppposed to hunting an "endangered species" shouldn't one understand why that is happening?

Hunting, particularly trophy hunting, does not an endangered species cause. It actually places a value on the game, which brings much needed dollars into the local economies. If the game is seen as having no or little value, it is expendible, especially when it competes for resources at the subsistence level.

Take a look at this: http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=56153

Just one of many articles out there on Africa today.

quote:

...Africa's population has more than tripled during the second half of the 20th century, growing from 230 million to 811 million.

s a result, Africa has become more populous than Europe. ...

Africa's population will soon reach close to one billion, or nearly 15 percent of the world population.

Due to continuing high birth rates (close to five children per woman) and comparatively lower death rates (life expectancy at birth is 56 years), the population of Africa continues to grow rapidly.

While the average annual growth rate for the entire continent is around 2.3 percent, there are even higher rates of growth in excess of 3.0 percent.

This implies a doubling of the population within a generation, as observed in countries such as Mali, Niger and Uganda, whose average fertility rates exceed six children per woman.

No one is saying this is a BAD thing. But Africa's wild game historically and today requires expansive habitat. As polupations grow, wild habitat decreases. And wild game competes directly with the human population for natural resources.

And of course we have those anti hunting zealots who wrap themselves in the cloak of "conservationists". Look at Kenya. How's the wild game population doing there following their hunting ban?

The only real conservationists I know are hunters. Hunters do care about sustainiable populations of wild game. We all want to leave hunting a little better than when we started. Contrary to the portrayl of hunters as uncaring killing machines who, if left to their own devices, would decimate all game throughout the world, the exact opposite is true. As to those who object to the sport, they do next to nothing for wild game or habitat - look at the "expenses" for these organizations and you will see that almost all of the money goes to paying themselves and paying others off. Almost nothing toward the goals they so loudly proclaim.

So when someone comes on here claiming to be a "conservationist" decrying hunting or certain kinds of hunting, that person is worth of a scarlet "H" for hypocrite.

As for getting into a debate with thse people, I am not about to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. It's just not sporting.

Radical? When I smoked pot I once thought I was a Radish - a rather unsavoury salad plant.

Same thing really.

quote:

quote:
If you still have access to that pathetic anti site how about loading up that link of the official press release from the ZIM government stating that everything the Trumps did was legal, had full permits and in was in compliance with all international hunting treaties/agreements. Bet that will make their heads explode!!!

I DID POST IT . . . . it didnt last an hour
NOW IM BANNED

Ive been bannished. . . .