After looking at a number of pages on this site and reading the comments, I am puzzled by the hateful words coming from many of the members. If they don't agree with something,fine, but argue against it based on facts, not made up stuff, such as stating something is illegal, when it clearly isn't. Calling someone a murderer just because they were successful on a legal hunt is purely assinine. On a more personal note, many people wrote about the majestic king, the lion; in my humble opinion, if you look at lion behaviour, they're nothing but f***ing thugs. I say shoot them all, especially if they would make good trophies.

That is Saeed and Pierre van Tonder in the Selous.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
After looking at a number of pages on this site and reading the comments, I am puzzled by the hateful words coming from many of the members. If they don't agree with something,fine, but argue against it based on facts, not made up stuff, such as stating something is illegal, when it clearly isn't. Calling someone a murderer just because they were successful on a legal hunt is purely assinine. On a more personal note, many people wrote about the majestic king, the lion; in my humble opinion, if you look at lion behaviour, they're nothing but f***ing thugs. I say shoot them all, especially if they would make good trophies.

Congrats!! Jolo will be sure that is posted on "Lion aide" by tommorow.

Hey Saeed,

Aren't there some interesting laws about illicit use of photos in the UAE, similar to US copyright?

I would love to see them summoned to court in the UAE for illicit use of your photos and libel or slander...

If nothing else a Interpol warrant for their appearance would probably get their attention...

The "Stop Trophy Hunting" facebook page is run by an idiot South African woman I believe.

We had some fun on there too when she posted criticism of a Mozambican Outfitter and his photos.

She refuses to remove photos she steals and facebook won't enforce their own rules to remove them or ban her. You would have thought that?!

Swamped the site with pro hunting posts too.

She doesn't get many antis posting on her site.

We should all post PRO hunting photos and comments on it and completely change its nature.

Pretty much tought we were! Still it concerns me that first they spew such vile drivel then selectively remove it. I cant help but let a little of my paranoia wonder what the motive is? I think I will send facebook a copyright infringement notice and order a cease and desist. See what happens.

Better yet I think I will send them a bill for the use and electronic facilitation and dispersment of the photo. Anyone have any idea what the going rate is these days?
Wait I just remembered I have a cousin who is a pro photographer Ill ask her if you all dont know.

Seems there's a few comments missing from yesterday.

Yep, lots of posts have been deleted. None was rude, but stated FACTS!

The truth is not something those nincompoops value very much!

you could also report that they are using your photos here

http://www.facebook.com/help/c...p?id=208282075858952

My post was deleted on Saeed's photo and apparently I have been banned from their site. Guess they can't handle the truth and just want to stay with their emotional knee jerk reactions.

Since they have deleted all the posts and refuse to take anyones pictures down I felt I had no choice but to contact facebook. I sent them a notice of copyright infringement and a bill, along with an explanation.
$200 fee for original acceess to the photo and $50 for everyday it is up. As a photographer and in the advertising world that is cheap. It is to make my point. It falls upon facebook now as the facilitator of the illegal action. Waiting to hear their response.

Great one Mike. Some one should also file a legal suite / claim.

I ahve also been locked out of the site and all my posts on 7 or 8 photos are gone. My comment supporting women hunters is gone.

Hate sites like this are a big lesson for us to avoid hateful language in projecting our image!

I never realized there were so many very common yet endangered plains game species...

Really goofy! Now my posts on Saeed's photo page are back up, as well as some of the idiot anti-posts they deleted previously.
They are screwing around, searching for some credibility they will never attain.
We are still winning there. But whipping idiots in debate is no big deal.

Rip in a battle of wits how could they ever win being totally unarmed? The truth though is these kinds of people do not want facts or sensible discussion. They just want to sensationalize and throw shit. They refuse to eneter into any kind of dialogue. The problem is that many only see that ugly knee jerk reaction and in true lemming style follow along blindly. Many actually believe they are doing something good because they have no basis in fact. Without any kind of real experience or factual evidence they rely solely on the 30 second sound bytes they hear as reference. They dont even understand basic animal behaviour let alone complex conservation issues and methods. I wish it was as simple as they like to pretend. Appears all they can do is call names like little children do when they have nothing else they can say to try and win an argument. Im beginning to think some real culling needs to happen but to the two legged animals. Higher intelligence my ass! I would suggest that any of you who do have a picture there do as I have done. File a copyright infringement with facebook and send them a bill. If enough people do this it will get someones attention, I guarantee it. Hell for 50 a day for the next ten years they can call me whatever they want. LOL! I just dont like thieves and liars. While I am on that subject anyone know who the money guy behind camping world is?

Just so everyone knows, you do not have to physically copyright a work as in the old days. Since the Berne convention it is assumed to be copyrighted at time of creation. This also is international and not just in the USA. Any country that signed on to the Berne convention will uphold this anywhere in the world. Most of the major countries did. Here is some light bedtime reading for you all.

Copyright Infringement and Remedies

I dont claim to understand most of it. a friend of mine put this together for me.

The best solution for that sight is for people to bombard facebook with complaints that it is using compyrighted photographs without permission and that facebook is responsible for the infringement.

If you post ONE PHOTO and ONE PERSON complains about it, which is consisted inappropriate sexually on facebook, they temporarily ban you, and possibly permanently.

Yet a site steals hundreds of hunting photos and yet is not touched at all?

Think about that.

Tomorrow going to try and send the site owner a message one more time. Along with a bill for the real money. Anyone here like me to act as their agent? Ill do the same thing only for the full monty if that is what you want. You will have to read the link I posted about infringement and remedy and decide a dollar amount. I would need something stating you authorize me to act as your agent for say 5%. I dont really care about the money but who knows we may actually get something. You will also need to state your real name address and a phone as well as an email. then you must identify the picture in question. Ill run with it from there. Your typed name will be considered a digital signature. Sorry for all that BS, not my rules. After that Im going to spend some quality time on the phone and the internet. If we make someones life miserable enough they might take the hint. We tried to open honest discourse but were scorned multiple tmes and called vile names. I think it is time to step up tp their game.
Saeed, you as well as a few others of course must also consider "reputation damage" from the vile comments. Where is Doug Chester when we need him?

John, I did think about it. that is why Idecided to go the infringement route and name facebook as facilitator. the can claim to be an innocent party only until they are notified. Then they have to take fairly swift and specific actions to avoid being culpable if I understand it right. I spent all day reading this legal crap over and over until I think I got the basics. I highlighted it and made a couple of notes because God knows tomorrow Ill wake up and not retain most of it. Its obvious they ignored complaints. there is even some kind of petition to get this womens site banned. They can not however legally ignore this.

quote:

Originally posted by David Culpepper:
My post was deleted on Saeed's photo and apparently I have been banned from their site. Guess they can't handle the truth and just want to stay with their emotional knee jerk reactions.

Likewise

I have reported the site too.

Nice Hippo Saeed
I will post a complaint also.

quote:

Just before you posted that last night I had made a response to the comments of "Alan Jo Burn" who is Mr. Jolouburn. I had a beautiful link to ar.com in the post.
It is now gone.
They deleted me.
I consider this a badge of honor.
I was not nasty or profane.
I just pointed out some problems with Mr. Jolouburn's math skills,

Just to be clear it is Mrs Jo Lou Burn posting.
Just to be clear there is nothing wrong with my maths and i will be posting on lion figures in SA shortly.
My 'snide' comment was nothing more than the truth, Saeed asked you lot to rally and post and you did.
However i think perhaps some here are guilty of selective reading as there is no mention of my following post :-

quote:

Might i suggest that people research 'hunting as a conservation tool' before blasting all and sundry that hunt. I am deffo not a fan of hunting but i do now comprehend after speaking to many including Saeed that hunting has its place in conservation.

Jo,

That site is a perfect example of the thoughtless, emotional, knee-jerk reaction the anti hunting gangs are.

We allowed you to say exactly as you wish here, I did not censor you or delete any of your posts.

Many of my friends posts have been deleted, despite the fact none of them can even remotely be categorised as being rude or insulting.

You lot like to ram your deranged ideas down our throats, and we answer you with facts, you don't like it.

You scream about "freedom this" and "freedom that". But you have no wish to allow others the freedom to do what they enjoy in persuing legal and health sport.

A friend of mine, who has never even fired a gun in his life, told me he posted on that site, but I was not able to see his posts. When I asked him, he said your friends deleted them.

Was it because what he had said made sense?
And was going to get visitors think about what he had posted?

quote:

That site is a perfect example of the thoughtless, emotional, knee-jerk reaction the anti hunting gangs are.

We allowed you to say exactly as you wish here, I did not censor you or delete any of your posts.

Many of my friends posts have been deleted, despite the fact none of them can even remotely be categorised as being rude or insulting.

I completely agree with what you say above. I read some of the posts fellow AR members had posted before them being removed and i am well aware they were not rude or insulting. My first post was removed too as it happen, i cannot find it anyhow. Perhaps my second will too dissapear ith time, i don't know.

quote:

You lot like to ram your deranged ideas down our throats, and we answer you with facts, you don't like it.

You scream about "freedom this" and "freedom that". But you have no wish to allow others the freedom to do what they enjoy in persuing legal and health sport.

A friend of mine, who has never even fired a gun in his life, told me he posted on that site, but I was not able to see his posts. When I asked him, he said your friends deleted them.

My lot? Stereotyping is one of the problems on both side and your continuance to do it with regards to me is an example of that. The people on facebook which are reffered to in this thread are not anything to do with me. I don't know one of them and i certainly dont have any knowledge of whos page it is. I came across it from browsing here.

As for my position on hunting, i have made it clear many times and yet you still continue to ignore it and class me as someone who does not wish you to have the freedom to hunt. I can fully see hunting as a conservation tool but i do not believe the lion can sustain it at this present time. That does not mean to say i am against all hunting.

Your friends post removal has absolutely nothing to do with me. Why do you think i have connections with every anti hunting site, post, page? Do you relly think i have the time to be?

quote:

Was it because what he had said made sense?
And was going to get visitors think about what he had posted?

I cannot speak for the page the posts were removed from. I cant even say i read your friends posts as i dont know who they are.
What i can say is that yes in my opinion would be the answer to both questions.

If you wish to know i would suggest you get in touch with whoever the page belongs to. Actually no i will send a message to them and see if i can find out for you, they may message me back if they see me as you do.

Edited to add -

quote:

Hi,
I was wondering if you could tell me why mine and may others posts have been deleted from pages commenting on the trophy hunting pictures you have posted?
As someone who does not like trophy hunting but can see the value of it from a conservation point of view i am worried that the messages you send out are one sided and biased. You also do not give others the opportunity to make their own minds up about the situation. It makes you appear frightened of what the hunters may have to say.

I could not privately messaged them as we are not 'friends' on facebook so i cant. I have however posted the above on their wall.

Made a pos post.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
John, I did think about it. that is why Idecided to go the infringement route and name facebook as facilitator. the can claim to be an innocent party only until they are notified. Then they have to take fairly swift and specific actions to avoid being culpable if I understand it right. I spent all day reading this legal crap over and over until I think I got the basics. I highlighted it and made a couple of notes because God knows tomorrow Ill wake up and not retain most of it. Its obvious they ignored complaints. there is even some kind of petition to get this womens site banned. They can not however legally ignore this.

You may have caused a bit of a stir..... click on the site and you get this......


This content is currently unavailable.The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

I posted on the page and asked where they where getting the photos from and did they have the permission of those who took them as it was a copy right vialation. . . DELETED.
MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Try this link

https://www.facebook.com/photo...-NOW/136918922995288

Saeeds Hippo
https://www.facebook.com/pages...95288&type=1&theater

As per my earlier post i have engaged in conversation with people on the facebook page. They are asking me for the argument for hunting as a conservation tool. Would anyone here be so kind as to summarise it for me so i can succinctly present the argument?

You have asked me why i dont get the message out there and i am trying to do so now. So who will help me?

Jo,

It seems to me most of the anti hunting crowd hears about extinction/endangered from places (countries) that do not support hunting of wildlife. Kenya is a mighty fine example.

If people forgot the word 'trophy' this would help. As hunters we cannot import wild game meat from most countries as these places carry hideous diseases that would wipe out our domestic livestock and domestic pets (including horses).

I can assure you if I were allowed to bring the meat home I would. Instead, it goes to the local population, both white and black. NOTHING is wasted, no true hunter wants waste to happen.

Antis need to look at facts and take the emotion out of it. Plenty elephants, kudus, giraffs, impalas etc, etc, etc where they are legally hunted.

POACHING is not the same as hunting or 'sport' hunting. This is where emotion may be of value. True hunters despise and work non stop to prohibit poaching.

None of my message is new info Jo. It is the reality we have all been trying to teach you.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
As per my earlier post i have engaged in conversation with people on the facebook page. They are asking me for the argument for hunting as a conservation tool. Would anyone here be so kind as to summarise it for me so i can succinctly present the argument?

You have asked me why i dont get the message out there and i am trying to do so now. So who will help me?

Why do we need you as a messenger?
Why did they delete posts from people who know an awful lot more about true conservation than anyone on that site?

They deleted mine and blocked me from posting. I had only mentioned that you killed a nice hippo and asked about the bullet. Hmm.

Thank you Ann.

Saeed,
why do you cut your nose off to spite your face?
You have (generic) repeatedly asked me to get the facts out there and when i try to berate me for that too.
The truth is Saeed i have managed to hold a conversation with those on that page which no hunter from here has been able to do. Are you going to waste the opportunity for even a small percentage of people to hear your facts and side?

Regarding removal of posts they claim only abusive posts are removed. And before you say it i know the hunters posts were not abusive i read them. Then others claim nothing has been removed. Again i know this isnt true as i had a post removed myself.

Thanks for pointing that out, Jo.

"they claim...."

The usual excuse of the fringe brigade to twist the truth to suit them!

Jo, I repeat, we do not need you as a messenger!

People have tried to post facts on that site, and they got them deleted!

Same as always when it comes to putting your money where your mouth is you're not willing to do it.
If the shoe was on the other foot and all my messages were being deleted on a hunting page i would gladly take up an offer from a hunter to put my message out there.
Don't whinge poeple oppose you when you do nothing to get the message out there.

Also with respect Saeed, you were quite happy for me to be a messenger and find out why posts were deleted but when it comes to the bigger picture you dont want me to be?

Like i said before cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Seems to me that they are defining anything Pro-hunting as abusive--

Self selection is not open discourse-

Jolo--you speak with forked tongue-

SSR