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I've always stayed out of the discussions about pricing of any kind but I felt the need to pass along some info and information. We have seen unreasonable increases in South African and Namibian dip and pack prices. I had two families hunt SA Cape region this year, one group took 12 plains game, they wanted shoulder capes, back skins horns and skulls. D and P charges were 4000.00. that's before over seas freight. By the time that crated is cleared it will be close to 6000.00! The second group had the same level of charges. I'm not going to say this is gouging because a business should charge what they want, but I will say the result is both of these families will NEVER BE BACK. They were first time african hunters and now they are done. PH's outfitters whomever, the business norm in these countries has always been to drop them off at a taxidermist and wash their hands of the trophies. All the hunters know that a commission is paid from the taxidermist to the PH which is perfectly fine, but these clients are holding you accountable as well when these taxidermists hold these trophies hostage for outrageous charges. Like I said I'm not making a judgement,business is business, just passing along information. I have four separated groups total of 16 hunters now that will never hunt SA again because of this very problem. Please don't PM me wanting to know who it was I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | ||
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I totally agree with your comments above. Some of these folks simply don't get that a rape victim will not return to the scene of the crime. African hunting becomes less appealing to me with each passing year. I used to be an uncontainable addict when it came to African hunting. The more I got to know about the industry and the people involved the less interested I've become. | |||
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Jerry, It is certainly not equal across the board. My trophies from last year in RSA worked out for dip/pack, documentation etc to about $100-$125 per trophy dependent on what I wanted done with them. Sounds like your folks paid several times that. Something is definitely wrong there. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I have been fortunate to hunt RSA twice (2010, 2014). The first trip we brought home 6 sets of horns with capes and back skins and two skulls. 2014 was one complete hide, 2 sets of horns, 6 capes and back skins and 1 skull. The d&p,freight and clear was slightly over double the amount. Along with it came poor d&p. I do apologize but, don't have the numbers ($) in front of me. MSG, USA (Ret.) Armor NRA Life Memeber | |||
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It is getting outrageous! And even then when something gets damaged they are totally unaccountable! After charging me out the whazoo for packing and shipping EMIAC will not replace a pocupine skull they crushed in shipping. I am really thinking about not bringing trophies back anymore....... . | |||
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Jerry while this may be the case with some. It is certainly Not the case with all Outfitters. I certainly dont work that way. I also say to all of my hunters, if they feel they are getting ripped off I will uplift the trophies and get them to the taxidermist of their choice. If you are getting "held hostage" then you are getting screwed by your outfitter as well as the taxidermist. I would also suggest that all clients get a written quote for the work before having skins delivered. You wouldn't drop off your car for repairs without a quote, why any different with Dip and Pack. All the best. Ian Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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That old saying, "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me!" Rings true anymore. Over the years I've dealt with PH's who failed miserably in getting proper d&p taken care of, and those who were stellar in their obligations. Had clients who had no issues what so ever with d&p/shipping and some who experienced nightmares when they decided to DIY on finding d&p/shippers. Recently, some friends received their trophies from Namibia; after 15 months. Dip & pack were paid up front and now the shipping and fees cost them as much as they paid for the entire hunt. This is not only price gouging, but many of these so called "dip & pack" facilities are nothing more than con artists who do little or shoddy work on the game skins and skulls. One close friend was hosed by a guy that charged $100 USD per piece (for plains game), only to send stinking skulls with live insects and eggs all over them. I doubt he did anything to the salted capes other than throw them in a wooded box. These con artists are criminals and should be prohibited from ever handling game trophies. There are good companies performing proper dip & pack but the cost just keeps rising for their services and shipping. Broker fees are following suit and becoming expensive beyond reason. There are too many mysterious "fees" on these invoices. Makes one feel they are reading their cable bill. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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I'll name names, good ones. Spirit of Africa tanned some skins and cleaned skulls, very reasonable and relatively timely. Safari Air Cargo Systems, very efficient, very reasonable. Gallagher Transport International in Denver, CO, very efficient, very reasonable. I have my trophies in transit right now. All in I think about $2500.00, not including taxidermy. | |||
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I'm sorry Jerry, but I don't agree with you not wanting to name someone in order to avoid throwing somebody under the bus. If I knew of someone that was screwing people over, I would certainly want everyone to know about them in order to protect others from the unscrupulous. By NOT naming them, everyone else is actually getting thrown under the bus. Just my two cents worth. By the way, I know of PHs that have now started their own dip and pack and I hope that it is not one of them, because as a friend or not, I won't be doing any future business with them. | |||
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Jerry It was inevitable things would come to this, just like with ear tagging trophy whitetail -- might as well be a price tag. The wave of "professional small boys" following the likes of Ruark and PHC after reading all about hunting Africa is about to crash. Too many entering a market too fast results in slob service eventually. I agree with your approach here -- nothing to gain beyonds giving fair warning. I'll go again, but trophies won't be put on walls. _______________________ | |||
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I agree with Use Enough Gun, I want to know who the crooks are so I will not have to do business with them. I also want to know who the good guys are so I can do business with them. Just like here at home. | |||
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I don't get it. The client decides which taxidermist is going to do the dip and pack. The client has the right to refuse to work with the "default" taxidermist. The client can request a price list for dip and pack, or mounting. Why is this the outfitter's or the PH's fault? I will also add that if there is outrageous pricing, it's often on the part of US taxidermists who think that if you have the means to go to Africa, you ought to pay their mortgage for the year. It is usually considerably less expensive to have the work done in RSA or Zim or wherever, in which case there is no separate dip and pack fee. Here's the other side of that coin. I once hunted with a group from Oregon and it was decided to have all the trophies shipped to "Mitch" in Oregon for mounting. I had no idea who Mitch was but I went along as the shipping cost would be only $400 each, all 8 hunter's trophies were put in one crate or container. I think he is in K Falls. I forget the business name but "Mitch" is well known. When my trophies showed up at Mitch's premises, I went to collect them as Mitch's quotes for mounting were a tad outrageous. Mitch charged me an arm and a leg for doing nothing and would not release my capes and horns unless I paid him an arbitrary price. Will never forget that. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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" The client decides which taxidermist is going to do the dip and pack. The client has the right to refuse to work with the "default" taxidermist. The client can request a price list for dip and pack, or mounting. Why is this the outfitter's or the PH's fault?" This is part of the problem, new hunters will nearly always go on the recommendation of their ph or outfitter. They don't have a choice. I never said that anyone was at fault or that there was anything crooked or dishonest going on. Businesses can charge whatever they deem fit for their business, I just wanted to inform of what seems to be happening and the opinions of the hunters involved. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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I recommend all my clients in KZN use Spirit of Africa. Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I have always avoided trophies from Africa simply because a lack of economic transparency...not just on the African soil but also on the Danish soil too. Too many middlemen wants to make dollar just by having their eyes on the shippingbox. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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This is why I haven't hunted Africa in a few years. It seemed like every year the cost of dip and ship got higher than the previous years safari. DRSS | |||
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I'm going through the same thing right now out of Namibia. I had 4 clients go there this summer. Taxidermy shop is charging roughly $300 per animal for dipping and packing. Skulls where taken to them all cleaned ready to ship. Hides and capes where also salted and dried. They also tanned some back skins and charged more for tanning than I could have had it done here. | |||
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I quit bringing things back 4-5 safaris ago, partly due to the outrageous cost of D@P and taxidermy, plus decreasing room in the house. The 12-14 thousand dollars saved have paid for other safaris. Just like the various African government fee increases, these greatly escalating costs will cripple the safari industry eventually. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Spirit of Africa charged me over $500 USD to dip and pack a nyala and bushbuck this May Safari Cargo Systems was great though, shipping of the box from SA to Texas was only $305 USD. What's also getting bad is the cost of Custom's clearance here in the US. Because I'm using a clearance company at a port near my taxidermist instead of the company that I normally used. I was given an estimate of over $700 to clear that same shipment. All in I'm looking at $1,500 + just to get a nyala and bushbuck delivered to my taxidermist for shoulder mounts. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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The outfitter's taxidermist charged me $100USD per animal and a $100USD packing fee. I thought that was fair. I also had him score the animals for SCI and Rowland Ward, $200 for 7 animals, I thought that was high. | |||
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Greetings, As I'm getting for my first trip to SA this spring, what would you veterans recommend I do to prevent getting corned once I'm there? Thanks, Will | |||
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"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." -John Stuart Mill Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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Jerry, if you are NOT a part of the solution, you are part of THE PROBLEM... | |||
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My suggestion would be to discuss this matter IN DETAIL in advance with your booking agent, PH/Safari operator, and your local taxidermist. Ask specific questions up front about such things so your don't experence bill creep/padding. Make sure you are aware of fees for things beyond trophy fees; do they charge for skinning? Transport of trophies to the taxidermist? I didn't ask enough questons once and got all kinds of tacked on charges; additional skinning charges and trophy handling/transport fees. Then the recommended taxidermist charged me $350 for the crate (just the crate!) that a couple small antelope skulls and hides were shipped in. I'm certain that the taxidermist didn't have $50 in time/materials in the crate, but I got billed $350 for it. And be careful with the Custom Broker that you use as bill padding can be an issue there also. Watch for charges for things like 'warehouse transfer'. I had a negative experience with Coppersmith over such charges brought on by an investigation into a pilferage situation of my shipment after it arrived in the USA.They eventually refunded me for such padded charges. On each of my successive trips to Africa I brought back fewer and fewer trophies. Too much drama and too costly. The PH/Safari Outfitters I had good experiences with I hunted with again and sent friends to hunt with them. The ones that I felt were padding the bill never saw me again nor did I recommend them to anybody else. | |||
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As others have mentioned do your homework before you leave. Get some recommendations from your booking agent, PH etc. but just don't go with them. Get prices ahead of time. Post here and ask for recommendations on D&P and shipping agents. If you have a port of entry reasonably close to your residence clear the trophies in the US yourself. Most of all, don't pay any fees upfront in Africa for your trophies and be prepared to tell them to stick the trophies where the sun doesn't shine when/if you get quoted outrageous fees to get your trophies home. Just recently there was a post on AR offering a very good deal on a buffalo hunt in Zambia. D&P was quoted as $1500 for one animal. I commented that the fee was very high. The comments in response simply said that's the going rate in Zambia. So if everyone is ripping you off for D&P it's OK?? Although I was interested in the hunt I passed on the offer when I saw this outrageous fee. Bottom line is do what many hunters are now doing. Take some good pictures and leave the trophies in Africa. That's a tough sell for a first time hunter. I brought trophies home on my first 3 hunts and each trip is cost me more than the prior one. Things have only gotten much worst since then. I've been to Africa 11 times and will go again next year but I won't be shipping any trophies home. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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Jerry, thanks for the heads-up. Don't know by who but your hunters got ripped off... From the 2016 Price List of one of the dip/pack companies I work with (based on 12 plains game animals): Dipping - $96 X 12 animals = $1,152 Packaging and Wrapping - 25% of Invoice amount = $288 Admin Charge = $130 TOTAL - $1,570 Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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Your dumbassery continues to amaze me. | |||
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Uncalled for. Jerry, kudos for bringing this up. Mike | |||
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That is by far the best advice. Be in control, be informed, and question all charges. One can get nickeled and dimed to death after the hunt is over. If you're informed, everything suddenly becomes negotiable and a whole lot cheaper... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Jerry: You may be the smartest one on this site! I appreciate you bringing this up and a thread like this is long over due! I was ripped off too. Wrong trophies, damaged capes etc.!! I'll never return!! If I did, I wouldn't bring anything home!! Ian: I appreciate you trying to help me stay vernal months back! You are one of the good guys in this business! | |||
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Lots of the miscellaneous costs are really adding up. The crazy thing is that hunts in other countries that I used to think were expensive now look like bargains. Marco Polo here I come. | |||
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In 2008 Matebeleland Taxidermy in Bulawayo send me a kudu, waterbuck, and buffalo. The three skulls were in a box with no wrapping, packing, fastening, etc. They blamed the vet for not putting the packing materials back in the box when the box was opened for inspection. My PH did nothing but send them my complaint but the damage was done in shipment. The box was a 500$ overcharge made by 1$ an hour shop workers. I still hunt, but for 5 trips left all in the field. This past July I will have a waterbuck skull, flat skin and zebra flat skin, done by TCI in Bulawayo. Cuan seems like a good bloke. There is no doubt everyone in Africa is skilled in separating Americans from their money. The PH really can't do much and does not want to lose their business. The agents will talk a good talk but will make it clear they are not responsible. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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The main thing to remember, on a first time plains game hunt is this: mount (with hide) only ONE trophy (your best or most memorable); the rest get European mounts done in country only plus the skins if you want them but frankly only Zebra is worth having tanned with hair on. Believe me, you will regret mounting every animal you shoot. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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These are great responses, and there is a list being compiled right here of good honest Dip and Pack companies. I'd like to see more of the operators or Dip and Pack companies come on here and list their pricing. Open it up where these first timers can have a choice as to whom they might chose and not be locked in with someone they no nothing about. What I hate is to see the first time clients so soured they won't go back, they will be missing out on a lifetime of safari memories. Used to we heard often, African is way cheaper than a guided Elk hunt going to Alaska , canada etc. We don't here that much anymore especially when the dip and pack is more than the daily rate. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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Well said Jerry. Thanks everyone for the great advice. I sure want this trip to be positive and look forward to many more. | |||
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It's costing in the neighborhood of $5,000 to get two leopards, 6 Impala skulls, 1 Waterbuck skull from Moz to Houston. That does not include the fee for the services of WELLS Worldwide. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Folks, Jerry doesn't want to name dip/pack/taxidermy outfits that are expensive and that's fine. That does not mean I cannot name someone I think is more reasonably priced. I had ten trophies handled by African Wildlife Artistry last year in RSA. The total on the ground dip/pack/crate documentation etc cost was $1,164. International Freight Systems in Seattle handled everything from arrival in Seattle to delivery to my taxidermist Atcheson Taxidermy in Butte, MT. This came to $1,818.97 including the international freight costs. So we have 10 trophies from arrival at the taxidermist in RSA to deliver at my Stateside taxidermist $2,982.97. That ain't too bad. BTW the service from both outfits was excellent and timely. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Wells Worldwide's estimate to clear one box with a Nyala and Bushbuck is $710. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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A few years ago I planned an African safari but could not do it as a result of business challenges. The biggest OVERALL concern was that I could not find a toal door to door costing guideline. I have to develop my own spreadsheet and ask several people to validate it. At the end of it, I was reasonably satisfied that I had got what i wanted but not 100% that I was NOT paying too much for any part. I am SHOCKED that no booking agent steps up and helps in this area. Why can someone with the full inner workings not just make it public with a detailed spreadsheet listing all cost. They could do it in 3 blocks - Travel costs including transfers Hunting costs including trophies, daily rates etc. Other costs including tips, Dip & pack, etc. How hard it that to do? I guess they are all pat of the system trying to push up revenue & clients' spending and see how much the "market" with bear! "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Comments to SA and Namibian PHs and Operators about Dip and Pack Charges
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