Ok guys and gals here is a Quiz!!!


If you saw photographs of a hunter with his African leopard and a hunter with his Indian Leopard, how would you tell which one is which?

Fact: There is no difference between an Indian and an African leopard. We are not talking about black leopards which are very rare in both places.

Assume :

Both sets of photos are black and white photos or colored. lets also assume the usual photo shoot so you get to examine a few photos of the leopard and the hunter from all angles.
There are no natives or PHs in the photos.
There are no obvious landmarks or other indicators in the photos.
Vegetation does not count.
The hunter is of european / american origin and is not wearing any native costume.


I am pretty certain that many of the experts on AR will not be able to answer! If you dont know the answer, post: GIVE UP.

If no one gets this soon, I will post a clue in a few days. I can assure you that the answer is kind of interesting .

about 3000 miles

red spot on the forehead

Don't the natives pull the whiskers off the cats in India?

George

It "bobs" its head from side to side when it growls

Guys we are talking about dead leopards. It would be a problem if they were growling .

Does it have anything to do with the time period(s) leopard hunting was allowed in India?

I guess I don't even know if there is any hunting at all in India these days, and I understand leopards have 'endangered' status in India. But Jack O'Connor took leopard in India, right?

This AR topic initially threw me off: How To Distinguish between a dead Indian and an African Leopard". Wasn't sure how a dead Indian had anything to do with an African Leopard!

Ok let me clarify this. You are looking at two sets of photographs of a european (white man) hunter with their leopard trophy. One leopard was shot in India and one leopard was shot in Africa. How can you tell which leopard was shot in India and which one was shot in Africa, just by looking at the photographs.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
If no one gets this soon, I will post a clue in a few days. I can assure you that the answer is kind of interesting .

This would be even more fun if you were to post a clue every few days for a year or so and then have a big ceremony to announce the answer.

Give up.

I've read that the rosettes are larger on the Indian, and extend further down the shoulder, while the African rosettes are generally smaller and become just spots further up the fore-quarters., with the spots themselves being larger on the Indian, and the spots appearing more crowded on the African.
one of Corbett's leopards:


African leopard

The rosette pattern is much larger. I thought it was a jaguar. I saw a Indian leopard and the story goes it is one of Jim Corbett's. Was an extremely old skin. Rosettes huge

Steve we win.


Mike

OK, here's my guess. Since you stated that "there is no difference between an Indian and African leopard", then I would assume that there is something else in the photos that are the clue. If the hunter is of European/American origin, and it is the same hunter in both pictures, then that hunter could indeed be Jack O'Connor. So I would imagine that he would look younger in one photo than the other, and my guess is that he shot the Indian leopard first, when you could still hunt leopard in India - when he was younger. So the "younger" Jack O'Connor is with the Indian leopard, and the "older" Jack O'Connor is with the African Leopard.

Hey, if I win this, is there a prize? You never mentioned a prize. I want a prize. Pleeeease?

Glen

By his turbin?

Scott

Molepole is the closest so far. But nothing to do with Jack O'Connor. Although if you saw a bunch of his photos of his indian v/s african leopard the clue that is required might be there somewhere. Keep in mind you have to pick the correct origin of one of the two animals and the the other by default will also be correct.

quote:

Originally posted by HAY-MAN:
By his turbin?

Scott

I said Assume the hunter is not wearing any local attire. So Turban would be one way but that is not the clue here.

On the Indian leopard, the entrance wound is higher up than the exit wound. On the African leopard, the entrance wound is lower than the exit wound. The leopard in India being shot from a raised platform or elephant, the African leopard shot in a tree from a ground blind.

Their pith helmet?

Another SWAG:
If one knew the time of day and month and had a compass in the picture, it could likely be determined whether the picture was from the Northern or Southern hemisphere by direction of shadows. India being primarily a Northern hemisphere country, and most leopard hunting in Africa being in the Southern Hemisphere.

Ok, if I'm allowed another guess, I'll take another stab at it. I just finished looking at a bunch of vintage photos of hunters in India with their leopards and tigers. Here are the things that I noticed. In that country, they almost always pose the cat lying on its SIDE on the ground, with the hunter usually standing behind it, somtimes sitting in a chair, but almost never kneeling. In Africa, the cat is either posed lying on its stomach, with the hunter sitting or kneeling on the ground beside or behind it, or the hunter is standing, holding the leopard up in a "bear hug". In the India photos, the hunter is never touching or holding up the cat. So it may be a cultural tradition in how the cats are posed in India versus Africa, and having reverence for the animal and such.

Of course, another clue may be the way the hunter is dressed - whereas the hunter in India is dressed in traditional Indian hunting attire, which could include a pith helmet, bindings on legs or long socks up to the knees, etc, and the African hunter is wearing a brimmed safari hat and the usual African safari clothes.

But I would guess the difference is the way the cat is posed. Am I overthinking this?

Glen

Indian leopard is lying on its side while the African animal is either on its stomach or being carried by the hunter over the shoulder or in a bear hug.

Indian leopard - the hunter has a shotgun quite often while the African leopard's hunter is always with a rifle.

It "bobs" its head from side to side when it growls

that is just too funny

The Indian Leopard worked at 7-11 or Motel 6?

Gundog 64

No, you have it wrong! It's the cough is how to tell -and Indian leopards always say - "Harumph,excuse me.Excuse me". (I watched too many old great 1930s Hollywood movies with great English actors like C. Aubrey Smith)

This is a great thread. Here is my guess,after seeing several trophy shots from India, the hunter removes his hat for the photograph.


This is not in every photo but in quite a number, unlike Africa where everyone seems to wear their hats during the trophy shots.

DNA (sorry to be boring)! If you go by external differences you will probably end up pulling all your hair out.

African leopards are generally shot from dead wild-game baits hung in a tree, while Indian leopards were more generally shot using tied out live goat-kids, but don't think that that's what you're after.

I have no idea. Could it have anything to do with when the hunt took place? I don't recall seeing any articles about leopard hunting in India after WWII. One other thought. Was there any calibre restriction in India as a leftover of the British colonization?
Bfly

Asian leopards are found on the Arabian Peninsula and all across Asia to China and Korea, and are not restricted to just India. They usually are larger than those in Africa.

Is the size of the cat your clue?

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
Asian leopards are found on the Arabian Peninsula and all across Asia to China and Korea, and are not restricted to just India. They usually are larger than those in Africa.

Is the size of the cat your clue?

Bill Quimby

Bill thats not true. Indian / Asian leopards come in all sizes similar to African ones. The size is not the clue in identifying which one is which.
Regards,
Arjun

Interesting thread, if you one is serious about looking at the two regions & their leopards....

Look at the environment - Dry scrub seems to a very common occurrence in much of Africa except the North West. The same goes for much of the middle east.

India on the other hand is much more diverse - you have dry scrub forest in the North West, Central and parts of the South. But you also have mountains, monsoon forest and rain forest.

The thick wet forest of South West India have a high percentage of black leopards. The regular colour phase also have a brighter amber and darker black colour. The leopards from the dry regions seem to have a paler colour. The animals from the rain forests seem to be smaller. I saw a trophy rug of one which looked like a young animal until I saw the actual teeth in the skull - well worn and a mature adult but only 6 feet long from tip tail to nose in a straight line. May have been even a bit smaller. I bet that animal weighed less than 70 lbs. However the fur was gorgeous and the richest I have ever seen.

The suspense is really killing me, and I doubt if I'm alone. But I'd like to make a deal: if I print a post with "I give up" will you PM the answer to me?

I've seen both indian leopard with hunter and african leopard with hunter and i don't see a big diffrence. Please tell us what the diffrence is.
For me the indian looks like the african. Here take a lookIndian leopards

Here arw two pictures from the inet. Only way to find he african leopard is because there's a black tracker.

Folks,

I said in my post Fact: There is no difference between an Indian and an African leopard. so why are you all still focused on the size of the Leopard and its markings.

There is a thought that in India there are two sub-species of Leopards (we call them Panthers by the way) one is the smaller scrub panther found in scrub jungle, rocky outcrops and hangs around local villages etc. The other being the larger jungle variety found in thicker jungles. Black panthers are very very rare in India. I have seen both small and big ones in the jungles so it maybe more to do with food and genetics, as is the case with Grizzly and Brown bears.

On another note. In India panthers / tigers were never weighed. The only measurements taken was the length between two pegs placed at the nose and tip of tail in a straight line or over curves i.e. along the body, which produced a longer measurement. Anything over 7' between pegs is considered a good panther, over 8' very big.

Reddy: Please tell us the diffrence!I want to know it.

Indian leopards are looking at the camera.