I am gearing up for a buff hunt in Zim in 08. Would I be out of line if I told my PH I only wanted a shot of 50 yards or less. As this is my first hunt for DG (did a pg in 06), I don't want to come across as some hotshot looking for trouble and wanting to see if I have the nads to stand a charge. I just think it is very hard to call shooting a buffalo at 100 yards or more hunting dangerous game if the shot is good and the animal goes down with no follow up.Please give some advise, those of you that have been there done that. Thanks.

BobS,

I think it is less likely that you will have a long shot in Zim than perhaps in some areas of Tanzania but if you are not prepared to take a longer shot than 50 yards you might not get your buffalo. I guess my question to you would be are you most interested in taking a nice buffalo or having an adrenaline rush? In my mind handicapping your ability to be successful particularly on your first safari by putting some arbitrary limit on your shot distance is just the wrong thing to do. Once you've shot some buffalo if you want to ratchet up the excitement by getting closer fine but on your first safari just relax and let the safari unfold as it will.

Mark

Great advise I think Mark- What do you think the average shot distance is in LU 5 ?

Bob,

I've been discussing that with Wayne Clark your PH. I believe it is possible to get a previously wounded bull with a bad attitude to charge from short range and drop just short of your shoelaces blowing blood all over your crisply pressed safari togs as the smoke curls from the dual muzzles of your double rifle. That IS what you signed up for. Right???

Actually I think you have to be ready for 25-200 yards and don't worry too much about the bloody clothes.

Mark

Acually, I would not worry too much about long shots in Zim. I have hunted buff every year there since 1995. I would say that depending on area, shots will be usually 25-75 yards, with the average around 40-50 yards. Just go and have fun. This is not sheep hunting so range is generally not the problem. Seeing the animal's anatomy may be more of a challenge than the range at which it is shot.

Geronimo

I thought exactly the same way until I shot my first buffalo in Zimbabwe. We tracked three bulls from first light from a waterhole until about 10:30. Came up over a little rise and there they were, feeding slowly in to the mopane at about 100 yards with absolutely no cover and the wind starting to get fickle. Spike said the one on the left is lekker, easy 42", can you make the shot from here? 2 shots with my 416 Rigby with Barnes 400 XLCs and he was in the salt. I would have liked to have gotten closer but sometimes you have to play the hand you're dealt.

In Zimbabwe last year every bull we stalked was eventually between 25 and 50 yards, except the biggest. He was outside 100, but on the edge of the concession. We tried to cut the distance down, but got busted by a giraffe and a tempermental wind.

I don't think you should order your distance limits like you order eggs for breakfast. Personally I would have felt comfortable out to about 100 yards. Much outside that (for buffalo) I think you and your PH can probably move in tighter. (Besides the stalk is more fun to me than the kill.)

I'm going back (somewhere) in 2008.

Nope Mark not if I can help it althought it seems to be the image most folks here in BC hold after the loss of Bob Fontana. Just killing time on a Sat afternoon!!

Also, remember that it is much harder to get close to a big buffalo that is in a herd or group than it is to a solitary dugga boy. Following the PH's advice would likely be better than setting arbitrary limits on distance.

Twenty to eighty meter shots on Buff in Zim are the norm in my opinion.
A 43# Buff I shot at eighty meters was as much fun as the ones I have shot at twenty.
ozhunter

All good advice. Just make sure it's a distance your confident in making the shot. Follow up in thick bush will test your nad levels- Especially if you're not sure of your shot.

Thank you for all of your replys. I guess the best advice is to play the cards your delt and see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by BobS:
Thank you for all of your replys. I guess the best advice is to play the cards your delt and see what happens.

Although it is highly sensible to show restraint when shooting at DG - and closer IS better - each shot is different. A lot will depend on the rest available - if any. It is often a lot easier to make a 200 yd shot from a great rest than a 70 yd shot without one. Regardless of the distance, if you don't feel up to the shot, you are the one who carries the final responsibility of whether you can make it. What others may think is of little relevance in that situation.

Practice from the shooting sticks, as they are likely to be all the rest you'll find in many situations.

- mike

Wayne is a good PH. He wont have you take a shot that you aren't comfortable with. Just go to have fun and let things happen naturally.

quote:

Originally posted by BobS:
I am gearing up for a buff hunt in Zim in 08. Would I be out of line if I told my PH I only wanted a shot of 50 yards or less. As this is my first hunt for DG (did a pg in 06), I don't want to come across as some hotshot looking for trouble and wanting to see if I have the nads to stand a charge. I just think it is very hard to call shooting a buffalo at 100 yards or more hunting dangerous game if the shot is good and the animal goes down with no follow up.Please give some advise, those of you that have been there done that. Thanks.

I have shot buff from 11 to 40 yards. Anything over 20 yards is too far.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I have shot buff from 11 to 40 yards. Anything over 20 yards is too far.

Sorry, but that is wrong to the point of being nonsensical.

For a sniper perhaps, but not for a hunter. Bowhunters get that close all the time. The only thing that will hold a rifleman back is his stalking skill.

I have made up my mind I want even push the safety off until we're inside thirty yds. I do think Mark Young's advice is spot on if your are mostly interested in a dead buffalo, not that there is anything wrong with that, if that's what you're paying for that's what you should get. In my case I would just as soon let the bulls live another day when outside of throwing distance. From my research I gather hunting Buff is not particularly challenging (especially where I'm going) it's only when you start hunting "inches" that raises the bar. I have zero interest in tape measure hunting and am perfectly happy with an average bull. It should be easy enough to discuss your desired shot distance without giving the PH cause for concern, the hotshots looking for trouble stick out like a sore thumb, it's usually their defining characteristic. Besides, I bet the desire to get up close is the most common request your PH hears from his clients.

I see 500grains is making another uninformed blanket statement like " Miller and Echoles would never make a rifle in 375 Ruger ". As he was proved wrong on that account he is just as wrong here, it is obvious he has never hunted in Kogosi TZ. If the grass has been burned its like hunting buff on a golf course. 100 meters is close as you can get,there is just no cover...................JJ

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
I see 500grains is making another uninformed blanket statement like " Miller and Echoles would never make a rifle in 375 Ruger ".

Would you mind going back and quote the post in question instead of just using words that suit your purpose? Perhaps you can then avoid posting inaccurate information like you did with your velocity and pressure posts. Thank you.

If a fellow wants to shoot buff at 100 yards, that is fine for him. But not for me as I have standards that I hold myself to.

Interesting stuff. Having only one buffalo to my belt but having several friends that have taken many, this is JMO. It is going to depend alot on your shooting ability, your time avaialable & your stamina. You may pass shots on your first day that you wish you had on your last. You make walk 10 miles for 3 days each & then not be able to make the final long crawl to get 50yds closer.
Take the shot YOU are comfortable with. If it is 50yds, then so be it. Your PH will work his ass off to get you your best shot. A good PH won't force you into a shot he doesn't think you can make. You can get your adren. rush just by making the stalks in the tall grass. If I had to shoot a big dagga boy in the open after chasing him around for several days in the tall grass, I wouldn't feel I cheated either of us.

Dan, you have been " JJ'ed ".

Back to the post subject. The 2 buff I took with Bundu Safaris were the classic in amongest them at 30 yards for 2 hours before shooting type of hunting.

The 2 I took with Maligarsi in Kigosi could have been in the long grass at 10 feet, but it so happened the herds were out on the open plain and there was not a stalk of cover. It took us 3 hours of stalking in plain view of the herd to get within 100 yrds. So one takes what the hunting Gods offer up..............JJ

Personally I don't care if a person needs to get close enough to his buffalo to smell its breath in order to think he has hunted. My problem is that the uninitiated may think that as mentioned above that there is nothing to buffalo hunting unless you get closer than 30 yards to your bull. buffalo hunting to me is much more about the tracking, trying to pick out a shootable bull from the herd, getting in position to make a shot when the bull is clear and finally making a good shot. To me this is hunting regardless if the shot comes at 25 yards or 150 yards.

The first buffalo I shot left an odd track and we were able to track him each morning from the waterhole for several days until I finally shot him. We were up on him each day sometimes as close as 35 yards but could not make it work. Finally I shot him on day four as he departed at 65 yards. After that many times of loosing the track and almost but not quite killing him a shot at longer range would have been just as rewarding.

My suggestion would be particularly if this is a first short buffalo hunt that the hunter take the shot that is presented.

Mark

There are times (like right after a large group of buffalo hunters have left)and places (like western Tanzania after most of the place has been burned off) where a Munchkin in a Ghillie suit couldn't get within 50 yds of any buffalo.

Hell, all you have to do is refer back to some of Saeed's shots on buff. It's getting close to any game if possible but don't rule out longer shots.

As usual, any time one makes a blanket statement, you know for absolute certainly he know not what he is talking about!

I have shot my 100th buffalo years ago, and stopped counting.

I just ENJOY hunting buffalo.

I think the closest I have ever shot one was closer than 10 yards, and the furthest is over 300.

If I have been following a herd for hours, and the only opportunity I get to shoot the one I am after is 300 yards, and I am in a position to take that shot, I will take it.

I have passed on shots - at buffalo and other game animals, while they are right in the open, less than one 100 yards away, when I KNEW the chance of hitting it is very slim.

I have gotten slose enough to elephants to touch one with the extended barrel of my rifle.

And the furthest one I have shot was 55 yards.

I suppose according to those who brand themselves as experts on elephant hunting that was not very sporting.

Anytime the PH thinks you are not capable of hitting an animal - regardless of the distance, he will tell you not to shoot.

And my advice is to follow what he says.

Amen.

The energy of a 300 grain bullet from a 375RUM at 300yds is around 1800lbs.Is this enough to take a buffalo at that distance? If it is then why aren't people hunting buffalos at 50yds with the 308 Win? Saeed,were you shooting with the 416 Rigby?

shootaway,

That is an easy one. Energy (foot pounds) means nothing by itself in the death of a buffalo or any other animal.

Mark

I don't understand.

I have shot many buffalo between 100 and 200 yards and a few further than that. I think most Tanzania buff are shot at about 75 to a 100 yards. If you hunt Tanzania you had better be prepared to shoot at longer distances than say Zimbabwe as a rule. Some of those huge burned flats are pretty tough to sneak up on a buff in. In the long grass you can get pretty close, like 6 to 12 inches if your not careful and then you can get bumped around and not even see'em....

FT. pounds and energy figures are what I call comparison figures to make interesting reading.

IMO penetration is the main ingrediant that kills buffalo and slowing a bullet down will give the bullet more penetration with a soft because you get less expansion, creating less resistence to the bullet. You always have plenty of penetration with a solid.

Buff are like a Coors beer, You can't shock'em you just let all the juice out of them and you got a dead soldier. short of a brain or spine shot, and ocassionally heart shot is an instant kill, but very very seldom.

If I had no other rifle I would certainly shoot a buffalo at 50 yards with a .308 and a good solid or a Northfork cup point.

In most cases when you shoot a buff at very long ranges, he will bleed to death before you get to him hopefully, other wise you just gave him time to get real mad and thats a rush, but a great bull getting away isn't an option with me, I will take the shot if I think I can make it, and 300 isn't very difficult on an animal as big as a buffalo, you have quit a lot of room for error.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I don't understand.

We are all aware of that...

I bow hunt a fair bit, mostly with traditional equipment. In fact, I haven't hunted elk with a rifle since 1997. With my trad bow I have to get within 20 yards or I won't take a shot. With no sights, etc, I am just not willing to risk it. I can say uniquivocally that it is MUCH more difficult and challenging to get within 20 yards of a bull elk. I relish that challenge and the raw adrenalin associated with getting in close, and have had some extraordinarilly satisfying hunts as a result of packing a bow, even though the vast majority of those hunts did not result in me letting loose an arrow.

BUT, my only three cape buffalo were taken in Tanzania, with a rifle, at ranges from 40 to 60 yards. We were within 20 yards of buffalo many, many times, but there were no shot opportunities. I took the best opportunities that were presented. I do not regret that we were not closer for the shot and I do not believe the hunt was any less as a result.

Getting close to game does increase the challenge the excitement of the hunt, but I do not agree at all that it is any more dangerous. Unwounded buff are not any more dangerous than anything else.

Many times I have jumped into a 60'x60' corral with 25 or more bison, in order to 'encourage' them through an open gate (that they really don't want to go through) into our chutes and sqeeze. I have dodged 2000 lb bull bison at touching distance. Now that's exciting...anyone that thinks bison are tame hasn't spent much time around them. Getting close to cape buffalo in the wide open didn't seem nearly as dangerous to me, and I was within 8 feet of a couple. (Elephant are another story!)

In my experience (which on this matter is limited to one hunt in the Selous), getting within 20 yards of a good bull buffalo and getting a good shot is pretty tough. If I could afford to hunt buffalo all the time, I might make it an objective to not shoot unless I was that close just to increase the amount of buff hunting time and the number of close encounters...like I do with elk. But there is no chance that I would make it a hard rule for me, given my means and the likely lengthy return interval between cape buffalo hunts. There is no way I would restrict myself to 20 yards or less on a $20,000 hunt, just for the sake of doing it. It really doesn't prove anything, doesn't make it 'dangerous' and just increases your odds of going home empty-handed.

If that's your thing, fine...thats cool and good on ya. But don't push that opinion on others just because its yours.

Just my 2c
Canuck

On the cape buffalo hunt I did in 2002 we were faced with approaching a buffalo herd of a one hundred animals plus or minus, in a open field surrounded by very thick thorn jesse.

The field was maybe 800 metres long to where the buffalo were feeding. The only approach was in the open.



Yet we got to within 60 metres of the first buffalo! Completely approaching them in the open, and they could see us.

How did we do it?



***

In the end however we were blocked from approaching closer by a few buff cows who saw us or at least what they thought we were, decided it was safe to keep feeding (hint, hint!), and in doing so blocked us from approaching a good bull buffalo who was still about 160 metres away.

I decided I did not want to shoot a buffalo at that range, and with more days of hunting available would get a lot closer.

I prefer to get a lot closer say no further than 60 metres. But getting 30 feet from several duggaboys is much more fun.

I haven't hunted in Tanzania either. I remember another Aussie hunter that was interested in doing a 2x1 buff hunt with me, and he stated emphatically he was not interested in "long range buff sniping" at all. Close was 20 yards. Guess Zim might be better for that then from the comments.

There is more to hunting than hanging a dead animal on the wall, or making another notch on one's plastic stocked rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by BobS:
I am gearing up for a buff hunt in Zim in 08. Would I be out of line if I told my PH I only wanted a shot of 50 yards or less. As this is my first hunt for DG (did a pg in 06), I don't want to come across as some hotshot looking for trouble and wanting to see if I have the nads to stand a charge. I just think it is very hard to call shooting a buffalo at 100 yards or more hunting dangerous game if the shot is good and the animal goes down with no follow up.Please give some advise, those of you that have been there done that. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
If that's your thing, fine...thats cool and good on ya. But don't push that opinion on others just because its yours.

I'm confused. Didn't BobS ask in a polite way for peoples advice ie including OPINIONS? So why when 500grains offered his opinion and belief was he flamed and seemingly with the complete support of the admins and moderators?

If that is his opinion why does it affect anyone else? I certainly can see work out the bullshitter comments (and its not 500!), so can most people.

People should have enough sense to read differing opinions and make up their own minds.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
On the cape buffalo hunt I did in 2002 we were faced with approaching a buffalo herd of a one hundred animals plus or minus, in a open field surrounded by very thick thorn jesse.

The field was maybe 800 metres long to where the buffalo were feeding. The only approach was in the open.



Yet we got to within 60 metres of the first buffalo! Completely approaching them in the open, and they could see us?

How did we do it?



***

In the end however we were blocked from approaching closer by a few buff cows who saw us or at least what they thought we were, decided it was safe to keep feeding (hint, hint!), and in doing so blocked us from approaching a good bull buffalo who was still about 160 metres away.

I decided I did not want to shoot a buffalo at that range, and with more days of hunting available would get a lot closer.

I prefer to get a lot closer say no further than 60 metres. But getting 30 feet from several duggaboys is much more fun.

There is more to hunting than hanging a dead animal on the wall, or making another notch on one's plastic stocked rifle.

Interesting. I see that in videos too. It was certainly not my experience. The buffalo in both LA1 and LU5 in the Selous were VERY spooky. You would not be likely to walk up on those buff in the open.

Don_G and I hunted buffalo every single day of the 16 we had to hunt. The last 5 of those days were stalking with a bow. I never would have gotten a 20 yard shot on a good bull on any of those days.

I guess the difference would be that almost all the buff we hunted were in herds.

Africa is a big continent and hunting conditions vary significantly between areas and within areas during the season. That would also likely account for some difference in difficulty in getting really close.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

The buffalo in both LA1 and LU5 in the Selous were VERY spooky.

Sounds like they have been over-hunted and probably chased with the Landcruiser as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
Interesting. I see that in videos too. It was certainly not my experience. The buffalo in both LA1 and LU5 in the Selous were VERY spooky. You would not be likely to walk up on those buff in the open.

Don_G and I hunted buffalo every single day of the 16 we had to hunt. The last 5 of those days were stalking with a bow. I never would have gotten a 20 yard shot on a good bull on any of those days.

I guess the difference would be that almost all the buff we hunted were in herds.

Africa is a big continent and hunting conditions vary significantly between areas and within areas during the season. That would also likely account for some difference in difficulty in getting really close.

Cheers,
Canuck

This was a herd of approx a hundred buffalo, could have been twice that number.

They were not "tame", they were very "spooky" as well.

We did approach them in the open. And the buffalo could see us some of the time. We also approached on foot. Just the PH and I as more people would have made the technique much harder. The wind of course was right. In our faces and blowing from the buffalo to us.

Try again. It is necessary to think laterally.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

The buffalo in both LA1 and LU5 in the Selous were VERY spooky.

Sounds like they have been over-hunted and probably chased with the Landcruiser as well.

Very possibly...I don't know. But maybe that turned out to be a good thing for me....I'd rather hunt buffalo that run from humans on sight (like the game I am used to hunting at home) than walk up to them in an open field. That would be rather anticlimactic.

Canuck