quote:

Originally posted by Chris E Nelson:
Lhook7-To attack someone personally for their opinion is the refuge of the ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by strapman:
For my own benefit, who establishes trophy fees in the various African countries? Is this a function of the country or is it established by the professional hunters in that country? Are some of the monies remitted to landowner as a percentage? How does this work?

I have no problem with daily fees. They have always seemed reasonable. Frankly, excepting fees on dangerous game, most African fees are fairly reasonable.

I think we can point blame regarding costs on other issues such as inflated airfares which was evidenced by increased costs during the World Cup last June in South Africa. I raised my own costs simply by getting almost everything mounted that I shot. Eliminate excessive taxidermy costs and expenses drop.

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
If people really knew how small the profit margins are for outfitters and Ph's they would be surprised. not to mention being away from there families for months on end

quote:

ddrhook , they would not believe it!
Although most of us do it because its a lifestyle that no money can buy, you do miss a lot of your kids growing up...

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
If people really knew how small the profit margins are for outfitters and Ph's they would be surprised. not to mention being away from there families for months on end

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I think that if you analysed the overall costs of an early safari of the 20s/30s/40s etc in relation to now and then compared both to average incomes, you'd probably find that the costs have in fact got cheaper rather than more expensive. Certainly far more working Joes can afford Africa now than they could then.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris E Nelson:
Just one more thing about you guys using the lame "supply and demand"excuse. I know of not a single Safari Company that books every available day it has...so the "demand" ain't there fellas

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
I have to say that I come down on the side of Africa being reasonable. I haven't hunted seriously for quite a few years due to health reasons, but have decided that I need to get in a couple of last licks before I get too old.

I am nuetral on this issue. I am not a resident of Africa, neither do I live in Montana where I can buy a cheap license and walk up the hill. I started looking just last week at hunts in Wyoming where I have had my best times. It looks like I could go to Wyoming (if I could manage to draw the tags) and shoot a couple of "plains game" type animals for not too much more than a full blown plains game safari. If I want to insure a hunt, I could book a hunt on a giant ranch which controls all the huntable area in a management area and therefore in essence controls the tags, for even more money. Before we start bashing African outfitters and African countries, let's give our due to American outfitters and state game and fish departments. I suspect that there are 20 tourists who want to see the elk herds in Jackson Hole for every hunter who is willing to pay to shoot one in order to manage the herd. Sound familiar? As to dangerous game, price a coastal brown bear hunt in Alaska and check on the trophy fee.

quote:

Originally posted by Goldeneye:
supply and demand......sure.

However, when we are talking about houses and cars it is rather about the supply of credit your bank will give you.

Had any financial crisis on earth yet?

Bubbles?

Is it price driving?

quote:

I'm not an economist, but it seems to be bubbles are caused by people borrowing beyond their ability to repay to artificially bid up the price of what they want. This seems to distort supply and demand because is causes a temporary demand at an inflated price followed by an excess in supply.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think there is a big misconception from the public that outfitters and PHs are making a lot of money from guiding clients.

The reality is far from this.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
GeoffM, you know what, you shouldn't consider going to Africa. It is too expensive, you said it yourself.


Leave it for the rest of us who value our days in the Dark Continent. I assue you, I do not have the finances these days to hunt in Africa, but I'm working hard to change that situation, and getting back to Africa is one of the main motivators for me to improve my financial condition. One of the first things to go was anymore guided north amnercan hunts for quite a while. I can hunt just about anywhere in the west on my own, and I'm going to use every available dollar I can to eventually get me back there.

If you think it is too expensive, it is. Don't go.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think there is a big misconception from the public that outfitters and PHs are making a lot of money from guiding clients.

The reality is far from this.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

This is the best question on the thread!

I know two guys well that are both hunters, one is worth in the neighborhood of 20 million. We are talking personal jet and second multi acre ocean front house on Martha's Vineyard money. The other is worth about 10 million. Both have been to Africa and neither has hunted there, it is too expensive according to them.

Then you get some guys who post on here that have their $150,000 house paid off but don't a nickel saved for retirement and because they pay their credit cards off every month pat themselves on the back for being financially responsible. If they save a chunk of their $40K a year they can go to Africa. Can they, sure. Should they, hell no. Sure you only live once but after you have had 70+ year old men and women crying on the phone asking how are they supposed to live on just SS and they are too sick to work you know better.

As you move up the income ladder your picture changes, things that guys making 50K a year don't even dream about come out of the wood work. Make north of 100K a year and want to keep that life style going in retirement, you'd better have WELL north of million socked away at retirement. Got kids, well a good private school around here runs $30K a year per kid. Private college is now close to $50K per year. Medical costs in retirement are going to cost you between $200,000 and $300,000.

Now if living off social security, not having a car and living in a one bedroom apartment are your idea of retirement then sure you can spend it all now and live off your $20K from SS.

But if you want more then that "affording" things gets WAY more complicated.

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

This is the best question on the thread!

I know two guys well that are both hunters, one is worth in the neighborhood of 20 million. We are talking personal jet and second multi acre ocean front house on Martha's Vineyard money. The other is worth about 10 million. Both have been to Africa and neither has hunted there, it is too expensive according to them.

Then you get some guys who post on here that have their $150,000 house paid off but don't a nickel saved for retirement and because they pay their credit cards off every month pat themselves on the back for being financially responsible. If they save a chunk of their $40K a year they can go to Africa. Can they, sure. Should they, hell no. Sure you only live once but after you have had 70+ year old men and women crying on the phone asking how are they supposed to live on just SS and they are too sick to work you know better.

As you move up the income ladder your picture changes, things that guys making 50K a year don't even dream about come out of the wood work. Make north of 100K a year and want to keep that life style going in retirement, you'd better have WELL north of million socked away at retirement. Got kids, well a good private school around here runs $30K a year per kid. Private college is now close to $50K per year. Medical costs in retirement are going to cost you between $200,000 and $300,000.

Now if living off social security, not having a car and living in a one bedroom apartment are your idea of retirement then sure you can spend it all now and live off your $20K from SS.

But if you want more then that "affording" things gets WAY more complicated.

quote:

Point completely lost here on what Chris was trying to say. He was merely stating that "WHEN" not "IF", and it will happen, that the total number of hunters will be so reduced by this economic fact that there will be insuffcient numbers to ward off the antis. End result, little or no hunting for "ANYONE" including the wealthy.

Don't think this thread was intended to be a comparison of NA vs Africa hunting and cost/value of each? Simply put, when only the wealthy can afford to hunt, there won't be any hunting left.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
If you feel that bookng a safari will significantly handicap your family's lifestyle or your security in retirement please don't go on safari!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to go on safari you need to make provisions in your lomg term financial planning to allow for that.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
If you are going, you want to do it right.

The issue I have is the difference on the Per Diem between Dangerous and non-dangerous Game hunts, and the minimum days for them. What happens if you shoot your buff or ele on the second day?

It's still the grandest adventure on earth. I hope to return two more times...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:

Rich

If you shoot your Buff on the second day of a 14 day hunt you have been lucky. But luck doesnt mean that the PH or outfitter has only catered for two days of hunting. Quite the contrary, he has supplied, equipped and catered for the entire hunt. Many people seem to miss the point when it comes to daily rates. They simply dont go into the Phs pockets and disappear. In fact a very small part of the daily rate actually goes to the PH. We still employ staff for the whole period. We still pay concession fees for the whole period and more importantly we dont stop the service after two days ....it carries on for the entire booked hunt.....

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Still waiting on someone to define these 'wealthy' folks for me.

This is the best question on the thread!

I know two guys well that are both hunters, one is worth in the neighborhood of 20 million. We are talking personal jet and second multi acre ocean front house on Martha's Vineyard money. The other is worth about 10 million. Both have been to Africa and neither has hunted there, it is too expensive according to them.