I imagine another set of stone tablets on top of Kilimanjaro, waiting for a reincarnation of Moses:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

TEN COMMANDMENTS OF DANGEROUS GAME PENETRATION WITH SOLIDS

I. Thou shalt use flat nose, monometal-copper solids only, and never be tempted by a round nose, whether monometal brass or steel FMJ.

II. Thou shalt use a caliber of .375 or larger, except on Sunday, when 9.3 mm (.366 caliber) is permitted.

III. Thou shalt not use a caliber greater than .510, as foolishly heavy cartridges and their rifles produce diminishing effectiveness for any hunter on foot.

IV. Thou shalt choose a bullet weight closest to 0.300 sectional density as possible. Here is a list of ideals to guide thee:
.366-cal/281-gr
.375-cal/295-gr
.409-cal/351-gr
.416-cal/364-gr
.423-cal/376-gr
.458-cal/440-gr
.468-cal/460-gr
.475-cal/473-gr
.483-cal/490-gr
.488-cal/500-gr
.505-cal/536-gr
.510-cal/546-gr

V. Thou shalt assure that thy rifle feeds and ejects flawlessly.

VI. Thy bullet velocity at impact shall be 2100 to 2700 fps, and as fast as thy rifle and thyself can handle, within this range.

VII. Thou shalt use 10" or 12" twist rate for thy barrel rifling, for all calibers, as either rate will do.

VIII. Thou shalt handload all thy ammunition, with new or once fired brass, and cycle it through thy action before the hunt.

IX. Thou shalt allow no rebated rim to pollute thy rifle.

X. Thou shalt place thy bullet well, else all is for naught.

XI. And to them who doth bringeth a push feed into thine hallowed fields....Let the beasts, horn, tusked, and clawed, smite them repeatedly for their folly and insolence.

Yea, Verrily!!!



Elmo

Thank you Saint Elmo.
Your wisdom is implied in the fifth commandment. We don't want to cause too much resistance from the heathen push feeders just yet, but hope to bring them to salvation voluntarily when they comprehend the commandments.

I think your words will be made into a psalm to sooth the souls of the converted. We expect the Pusherites to convert to Mauserism and you shall be their Patron Saint.

Yea verily, Saint Finn, Saint George, Saint Gerard, Saint Mike, and Saint Elmo.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

V. Thou shalt assure that thy rifle feeds and ejects flawlessly.

Are doubles with extractors therefore verboten? They feed fine, but do not eject so well.

Thy GOD is a false GOD. One that leans toward a lot of BS.
465 has spoken!

465H&H

500grains,
Doubles are a godsend (from the red god) for the quick second shot that requires no feeding nor ejecting at all. The pilgrim can get no more flawless than that for the second shot.

Most of the truly devout in this religion will have at least one double that fulfills the ten commandments.

Hand guided gravitational feeding and "ejecting" by the faithful after the second shot can be quite RIGHTEOUS.

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Thy GOD is a false GOD. One that leans toward a lot of BS.
465 has spoken!

465H&H

So speaks one of the heathens of a different tribe than the Pusherites, but he is just as misguided.

jeffeosso might have issue with you on commandment III especialy with his 550 express

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
jeffeosso might have issue with you on commandment III especialy with his 550 express

It is a sin to use a rifle of greater than .510 caliber on dangerous game. They are tools of the devil. For the insecure, vain, and poor shooters trying to gain false confidence from their short comings.

jeffeosso may yet be saved from eternal damnation if he restricts the over-50-bore toys to play. Over-50-bores are for chest beating, paper punching, and rock breaking.

Alas, I fear there is another commandment that may also be hard to live by for many of the lost souls here, number IX.

By a leap of faith, they may yet be saved.

Amen.

But if thou use a little to light rifle on dangerous game ,you might find thou self as a part of the African topsoil!

Thou shall alway use enough gun, but not overdo it,

thises are the words of the Lord Capstick

mr rigby,
There is plenty of latitude from .366 to .510 caliber, more than enough gun there. Pray on it and you may see the light.

Amen

Dip'n into the Holy Water a little early on this Sabbath are we RIP?!?!?!

Kyler

I have the .450 Nitro Express makes me feel like one of the Knights of the Holy Templars, blessed, aschetic, and ready to face the dangers!

And God is one my side in form of 500 grains revelatons !

alterwine perhaps??

I agree with most of the rules of law in this new relligon/cult. I reload carefully, use once fired brass, I check that rounds feed before I bring them on a hunt and I worship at the altar of sectional density and Barnes X & solids.

HOWEVER The anti push feed mantra is where you loose me. The whole CRF vs PF that goes on reminds me of primary school when guys would fight on the school bus over who built a better car/truck Ford, Chevy and so on.

I own both CRF and PF rifles. As a matter of fact my favorite all around go to rifle is a 300 Win Mag Model 70 CRF. And I have had bad ones (not many thank God) in both categories.

I have to ask all you CRF freaks out there, where I can do some more exciting hunting? I have tried real hard and in 15 years of hunting and 10 years of law enforcement I have never found myself needing to chamber rounds into a bolt rifle while hanging upside down??? What situations do you guys keep finding yourselves in where you are shooting a rifle where the natural forces of gravity can not come to your aid? Did someone open hunting for a rare animal on the moon where hunting with a CRF rifle would be manditory?

That being said I have to say I 100% agree with the last commandment. SHOT PLACEMENT is important above all else. This is a little off topic but bear with me, it translates well to all hunting especially African hunting...........I only started bowhunting 3 years ago. A friend of mine that has bowhunted since I was one of thoes dumb kids on the school bus taught me the basics when I first started bowhunting. He told me that there were 10 things vital to being a sucesfull bowhunter.

#1 SHOT PLACEMENT
#2 SHOT PLACEMENT
#3 SHOT PLACEMENT
#4 Practice often
#5 Practice perfect (just flinging arrows or lead inconsistantly does nothing)
#6 Practice how you will hunt(shoot with clothing that you will hunt in and shoot from a tree stand, ground blind or off sticks when it comes to Africa and rifles)
#7 Be in shape ( it will help even if you hunt only from stands, you will opperate better at the moment of truth if your heart is conditioned to being elevated)
#8 Know the limitations of you equipment and yourself
#9 ETHICS if it has to be explained you dont have any, try hunting not just killing
#10 SHOT PLACEMENT

Saint Elmo,
See what you started! Another #@%&!@ thread about PF vs CRF! Stoking the fires of hell to greet the Pusherites.

I would be happier to see arguments about how many angels dancing on the head of a pin does it take to get the SD of the pinhead to equal exactly 0.300!

Looks good RIP. My 470M will gain me entrance into the Happy Hunting Grounds! (I assume that is the reward for not breaking any commandments!)

If my 416T sees duty, I'll carry it over my left shoulder. (although it does feed perfectly, if not in a controlled manner)

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Uglystick:
I have tried real hard and in 15 years of hunting and 10 years of law enforcement I have never found myself needing to chamber rounds into a bolt rifle while hanging upside down???

I have had several occasions while hunting to work the bolt while running in an all out sprint. That is fine with a Mauser, but not so certain with a model 700. (yes, I used to hunt with M700s and still respect their accuracy, but will not trust my life to one)

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I imagine another set of stone tablets on top of Kilimanjaro, waiting for a reincarnation of Moses:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

TEN COMMANDMENTS OF DANGEROUS GAME PENETRATION WITH SOLIDS

I. Thou shalt use flat nose, monometal-copper solids only, and never be tempted by a round nose, whether monometal brass or steel FMJ.

II. Thou shalt use a caliber of .375 or larger, except on Sunday, when 9.3 mm (.366 caliber) is permitted.

III. Thou shalt not use a caliber greater than .510, as foolishly heavy cartridges and their rifles produce diminishing effectiveness for any hunter on foot.

IV. Thou shalt choose a bullet weight closest to 0.300 sectional density as possible. Here is a list of ideals to guide thee:
.366-cal/281-gr
.375-cal/295-gr
.409-cal/351-gr
.416-cal/364-gr
.423-cal/376-gr
.458-cal/440-gr
.468-cal/460-gr
.475-cal/473-gr
.483-cal/490-gr
.488-cal/500-gr
.505-cal/536-gr
.510-cal/546-gr

V. Thou shalt assure that thy rifle feeds and ejects flawlessly.

VI. Thy bullet velocity at impact shall be 2100 to 2700 fps, and as fast as thy rifle and thyself can handle, within this range.

VII. Thou shalt use 10" or 12" twist rate for thy barrel rifling, for all calibers, as either rate will do.

VIII. Thou shalt handload all thy ammunition, with new or once fired brass, and cycle it through thy action before the hunt.

IX. Thou shalt allow no rebated rim to pollute thy rifle.

X. Thou shalt place thy bullet well, else all is for naught.

And, "Thou shalt not kill." Except in accordance with Commandments I through X hereinabove stated.

I shall take communion with thee Brother RIP.

Except thou must forgive my trespasses, as I have used a 600 grain round nosed soild (Woodleigh) in my 1 in 14" twist .510 bored big elephant whacker, and shall use a use a 570 grain truncated round nosed solid (Barnes FNS) in future.

RIP, thou has seen the light, but yea verily do not descend into dogma.

Is it me, or does this sound like an ACLU tent meeting? Yeah, they think their religion is the only way.
I do agree with most of the commandments though, especially on SD and placement.

prof 242...

you will learn to ooobbbbeeeeyyyyy

come, be one of us...

ooobbbbeeeyyyy....

rabbi rip speaks the one truth

the cool aid is tastey...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I. Thou shalt use flat nose, monometal-copper solids only, and never be tempted by a round nose, whether monometal brass or steel FMJ.


III. Thou shalt not use a caliber greater than .510, as foolishly heavy cartridges and their rifles produce diminishing effectiveness for any hunter on foot.

VI. Thy bullet velocity at impact shall be 2100 to 2700 fps, and as fast as thy rifle and thyself can handle, within this range.

VII. Thou shalt use 10" or 12" twist rate for thy barrel rifling, for all calibers, as either rate will do.

IX. Thou shalt allow no rebated rim to pollute thy rifle.

Verily I say unto you, this false prophet, most assuredly the creature of Herstal, has not faith the most Holy of all Relics of the bygone Golden Age. The Holy Double Rifle (HDR)(***insert “the blue star’s “ahhhaaaa!!! Sound)

Yea, fully four of these stated ten are outside the sacrament from any of the Mother Houses: No HDR would ever have passed from the hallowed halls of Westley Richards, Hollis, Holland and Holland, yea, even from the House of Rigby (may the red gods have mercy on their heretical souls for their migration of faith and place) that would meet these commandments.

Perhaps these minor commandments lend themselves to the secondary, though more popular Order of the DGR turnbolt Rifle.. and should these be aligned with those minor miracles (compared with the HDR), those lesser clerics should have guidance and provide succor to their flocks.


It is PURELY sacrilege to describe even the concept of a monometal bullet in the bores of a blessed Nitro Express, unless built by the Blessed Son, Butch. All the Mother Houses have built the most sought after and revered of all stopping rifles.

The .577 Nitro Express (***insert “the blue star’s “ahhhaaaa!!! Sound).. and no manner of man would suggest that most HDR should either exceed 2100fps impact nor, in even the blackest pit of the nightmares of Remington would one ever attempt a monometal bullet (SINNER) in the bores of a HH HDR 577 Nitro Express past the muzzle speed of 2050, the most holy of all Nitro Express combinations. 750 grains (most blesses) at 2050 (holy of holies) rendering the most strongest blessing of the Red Gods, the Horrible and Holy 7000ft-lbs of Energy, within the pressure that things created by Man can withstand.

Mark this day, this day of a sinner, that would Declare the HDR should have a twist faster than a single per cubit.


*author’s notes
1… the Third commandment in this document is mis-transcribed. It should have read

quote:

III. Thou shalt not use a caliber greater than .510, as foolishly heavy cartridges and their rifles produce diminishing effectiveness for any hunter on foot, unless thou has navigated beyond the lesser orders of the DGR, and have trained the mind and body to accept the blessings of the Red Gods for self, soul, and beast.

2.. fast twists and rebated rims (of the lesser sort) are the base subject of a root level bifurcation within the lesser orders of the DGR. This fracture seems to stem from the House of Westley Richards providing an adequate, though odd, severely rebated rim, and it proceeded to handily take game for decades. Though beyond the “lesser sort†of rebate, this area is warmly contested amounst those on the Pilgrimage of ii (irrelevant increments)

Veril

Hey Boom Stick, What flavor of "cool-aid" does your religion prefer? Mine is going with a decent Merlot or Spatelese...without those permanent after effects that "Brother Jim's" had.
Guess I'm going to have to start my own sect..."We the Bretheren of 20mm or Larger." Bringing death from above. Think Judge G, or Jorge, would be a member of this religion?

Dude. Sweet.

analog_peninsula

quote:

Originally posted by Uglystick:
I agree with most of the rules of law in this new relligon/cult. I reload carefully, use once fired brass, I check that rounds feed before I bring them on a hunt and I worship at the altar of sectional density and Barnes X & solids.

HOWEVER The anti push feed mantra is where you loose me. The whole CRF vs PF that goes on reminds me of primary school when guys would fight on the school bus over who built a better car/truck Ford, Chevy and so on.

I own both CRF and PF rifles. As a matter of fact my favorite all around go to rifle is a 300 Win Mag Model 70 CRF. And I have had bad ones (not many thank God) in both categories.

I have to ask all you CRF freaks out there, where I can do some more exciting hunting? I have tried real hard and in 15 years of hunting and 10 years of law enforcement I have never found myself needing to chamber rounds into a bolt rifle while hanging upside down??? What situations do you guys keep finding yourselves in where you are shooting a rifle where the natural forces of gravity can not come to your aid? Did someone open hunting for a rare animal on the moon where hunting with a CRF rifle would be manditory?

That being said I have to say I 100% agree with the last commandment. SHOT PLACEMENT is important above all else. This is a little off topic but bear with me, it translates well to all hunting especially African hunting...........I only started bowhunting 3 years ago. A friend of mine that has bowhunted since I was one of thoes dumb kids on the school bus taught me the basics when I first started bowhunting. He told me that there were 10 things vital to being a sucesfull bowhunter.

#1 SHOT PLACEMENT
#2 SHOT PLACEMENT
#3 SHOT PLACEMENT
#4 Practice often
#5 Practice perfect (just flinging arrows or lead inconsistantly does nothing)
#6 Practice how you will hunt(shoot with clothing that you will hunt in and shoot from a tree stand, ground blind or off sticks when it comes to Africa and rifles)
#7 Be in shape ( it will help even if you hunt only from stands, you will opperate better at the moment of truth if your heart is conditioned to being elevated)
#8 Know the limitations of you equipment and yourself
#9 ETHICS if it has to be explained you dont have any, try hunting not just killing
#10 SHOT PLACEMENT

Verrily I say unto you, some simply cannot be saved!

AND verily it is said that to follow the commandments one is to never be undergunned when facing the mighty beast


FEAR true and terrible shall strike the hearts of those who fail to stop the beast



and those who fail to heed the truth shall indeed face death most horrible and everlasting...

Thank you oh wise one.


What a great thread that speaks many truths, and lightens the work day.

Oh my goodness! Not the Vorpal Bunny!

analog_peninsula

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=killer+rabbit&toggl...6cop%3D%26ei%3DUTF-8

do you have a question about a bullet s.d. ect...

try here

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/index.htm

Blasphamy by God, that leaves out my 500 Jeffery and that is unforgivable as she is sweet thunder incarnate.

Verrily I say unto you, some simply cannot be saved! [/QUOTE]

You guys crack me up. This is the entertainment side of this forum that I realy like. However, the day I need to be saved by you guys I will be putting about 15 guns up for sale and buying some golf clubs and funny clothes.

Brother 500 Grains reads from THE OLD TESTAMENT (pre 1920), and brother RIP reads from the New Testament (pre-1964).

They are BOTH Children of the Book!



Andy

Nay! My Brothers, Nay!

No Saint is Elmo...I'm just another poor sinner with a confession to make...

If thouze wouldst gaze into the fire-proof,electric key-padded Liberty Citadel in my humble office, thoust would be horrified to behold that verrily, six of my centerfire smiting sticks be of the Pusherite Fold.

For I am weak at the gun auctions, and the Siren Steyr has sung in my ear and leadethed me astray more than once. Yea, I have slippethed offeth the patheth of rightousness and have brought shame and some really incredibly small three shot groupeths into the house of Elmo.

Forgive me my friends...

and to those whomst mighteth cast scorn upon this humble sinner, I sayeth unto youze guys...

Let He whom hath not dabbled in Pushfeedery,
cast the first stone.

Let us Pray

Oh forgive my trespasses, St. Whelen,
for I am just a weary traveller,
on a journey, Nay, a Quest!
to find the Judges' Liquor Cabinet,
and cigars...
so I can work up the courage...
to pluck the Large Ring...
from the Flaming Furnaces of Oberndorf...
AND THENCE RULE THE WORLD!!!!!
MWAAAH HAH HAH HA!!!!

Oooooooh, my precious SquareBridge. Don't listen to the nasty Remingtonses


Elmo

Oh my gut aches from the belly laughs! That was too funny to bear from saints and sinners alike.
Nuts!

quote:

Originally posted by elmo:
Nay! My Brothers, Nay!

No Saint is Elmo...I'm just another poor sinner with a confession to make...

If thouze wouldst gaze into the fire-proof,electric key-padded Liberty Citadel in my humble office, thoust would be horrified to behold that verrily, six of my centerfire smiting sticks be of the Pusherite Fold.

For I am weak at the gun auctions, and the Siren Steyr has sung in my ear and leadethed me astray more than once. Yea, I have slippethed offeth the patheth of rightousness and have brought shame and some really incredibly small three shot groupeths into the house of Elmo.

Forgive me my friends...

and to those whomst mighteth cast scorn upon this humble sinner, I sayeth unto youze guys...

Let He whom hath not dabbled in Pushfeedery,
cast the first stone.

Let us Pray

Oh forgive my trespasses, St. Whelen,
for I am just a weary traveller,
on a journey, Nay, a Quest!
to find the Judges' Liquor Cabinet,
and cigars...
so I can work up the courage...
to pluck the Large Ring...
from the Flaming Furnaces of Oberndorf...
AND THENCE RULE THE WORLD!!!!!
MWAAAH HAH HAH HA!!!!

Oooooooh, my precious SquareBridge. Don't listen to the nasty Remingtonses


Elmo

THOU hast forgoten and forsaken thy past.
You have HAD THE POWER all along...

Eslt why would the ancient tomes speak at length of the power of
ST. ELMO'S FIRE.....

i know that ahr does the 500 ahr



has anyone shortened it to 500 jeffe to erase the rebate and also fireform to get the original shoulder back so it would be identical except the rebate???

the 404 jeffe had a rebate once and and now it is holy cart complying to the 10 ripmandments so why not a religious conversion for the 500???

lets wash away the rebate sin and have a baptism of fire-forming!

i cristen thee the 500 jeffery-boom stick!

just open up the bolt face and fireform! rebate

boomer,
It has been done before. Harald Wolf and Tony Sanchez-Arino have collaborated on one like you describe.

Jack First In Rapid City, SD was stocking some 500 Jeffery brass that had no rebate. They also had some Bertram brass with the full blown rebate and worse.

Rabbi Rip has one more interpretation of the scripture, for the faithful of this Unorthodox Newish religion.

Commandment V is aimed at insuring controlled round feeding, extraction, and ejection. Extraction is implied in the ejection. The holy sacrament of ejection can only occur if the holy sacrament of extraction precedes it.

The holiest of sacraments is the trinity in the communion of controlled feeding, controlled extraction and controlled ejection.

The righteous may accomplish this by use of the self-locking Mauser extractor in a bolt action ... or use of the side-by-side double rifle or a single shot, aided by gravity and piously well trained hands, that have been sacramentally washed in holy water from an Unorthodox Newish Temple.

The kosher DGR is thus a bolt action with Mauser extractor, or a double or single shot with either extractors or ejectors.

Pusherites will have to become secular humanists or Methodists, and risk the fires of hell.

Consider that the pentecostal holy rollers allow only double rifles.

Southern Baptists agree with the kosher practice of the Unorthodox Newish faith, regarding DGR.

Methodists welcome the Pusherites.

So be it.

Henceforth, the righteous hunter practicing this religion of the DGR will be known as a Newish Unorthodox Templar: NUT

We band of nuts.

Amen.