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| One of Us |
A friend and I are in the process of putting together a walking safari with a PH friend of ours, much like that described by scruffy in the hunt reports forum, but in a different country and for different species. We intend to do it like Selous did. Hats off to scruffy and his mates, they did it proper! I have read a lot on here about the romance of Africa and the dangers you all face and so forth and so on and how you all are continuing the tradition and quite frankly it all makes me want to gag. I have hunted Africa, by the way, much in the same way the rest of you have so I am qualified to comment. The reality of safari, for the old timers; I'm speaking here of Selous, Gordon-Cumming, Lyell, Stigand, Bell and others, was that they were hot as hell during the day, cold at night and in the mornings, dirty and smelly most of the time, bathed infrequently, drank fetid water, ate what they killed along with some mealy meal, were sick a lot, and in general it was tough as hell and a miserable existence. In short, it was nothing like today's Toyota safaris where pampered overweight and out-of-shape suburbanites tool around the bush with their PHs in search of spoor, find some, hop off the cruiser for a short stalk, shoot, and then it's back to the camp for a hot shower, sundowners, and a nice meal. The old timers had no fancy camps, no nice meals, no Cruisers, no meds, no ice filled sundowners, no sat phones, no medevac insurance, or any other of the modern comforts that you guys drag along on safari. I will even go so far as to say that the type of modern hunt I have described should not even be dignified by the term "safari" it should be called "tourism", anything less is an insult to the true meaning of the word "safari". | ||
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So your saying the likes of Andrew Holmberg weren't true old time Safari hunters? Ie, fancy camps, trucks, good food and hell, even a low down shower???  I guess the saying "what ever floats your boat" applies here. | |||
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Chobe, no offense meant man, but you been here a couple of weeks at most and you're very consistent in your postings. Contrary to the spirit of everything most of us hold dear about Africa, and the entire spectrum of hunting with traditional weapons and tactics. Us "old guys" converse via PM a lot here, and everybody that has mentioned your name and posting posture wonders why you waste time here. Are you that ignorant of the finer things in life, and being a part of history and feeling a kinship to those who who have gone before? Are you really experiencing that negative an existence in all areas of your life? Or, as some have suggested; are you some sort of an AR Troll? I wonder if someone pees in your Post Toasties every morning... Rich I don't think you can go on a walking Safari, the old guys; none of them were whiners. | |||
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Ozhunter, Sounds like he is saying you make him gag because you took a shower on your last safari. | |||
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Rich that is funny. BTW, no ice for your drinks, no showers, and you cannot buy any of that damn insurance. Forget malarone, real men are not afraid of malaria. | |||
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Insurance, Malarone? What are these? I slept in a tent, all by myself... Rich | |||
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No showers, I am sure you will sleep in a tent alone. About 15 years ago I hunted black bear in Alaska with a buddy, no guide, drop off trip, 2 man tent, 8 days, the kind of hunt that would make Chobe proud. Anyway after about the fourth or fifth day of hard hunting I crawled in the tent for the evening and we realized it was past time for a shower. The next day I bathed in a glacial stream a couple of miles from the glacier. It was about the hardest thing I ever had to do while hunting. | |||
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Internet Sharpshitter, You are EXACTLY what I was referring to. A fat, out-of-shape, know-it-all, blowhard. I found this pic on your hunt hunt report you "Buff Killer". Suffice it to say you won't be doing any walking safaris any time soon, whining be damned.  I could care less less what you "old timers" converse about in your PMs and even less about what you think of me. YOU are full of shit on jumbo hunting, you're full of shit on buff hunting, you're full of shit on Africa in general, and you're definitely full of shit on doubles even though you did buy your first double recently and probably stayed at a Holiday Inn. On all of those topics you know exactly enough to be dangerous, Congratulations. I don't care how long you've been around this website or how many posts you've logged, the fact remains that you're clueless windbag who'd be lucky to find his fat ass with both hands. | |||
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Halla-fucking-lulla!!  Let me be the 1st to give Chobe a warm AR welcome! Good on ya!!!  Waiting to see the rebutals to this one.  Mind you Chobe, ISS has a whopping 2 more months of registered AR time than I do. Take note of the post count for the both of us. In his mind, that alone qualifies him to AR stardom and THE authority on all that is hunting, worldwide. Let us not forget guns, women, Harleys, cars, fine food, fine booze, sports, "friends" (remember the Martinez fiasco?) etc. either... And yes, I'm quite sure he did indeed stay at a Holiday Inn. Where else would he got gotten all his worldly info? Don't be suprised to get a threatening PM telling you how much he's gonna kick your ass. Lord knows I've gotten a ton from him. Like a toothless heel-hound. This thread just made my Sunday evening. | |||
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Y'all ever notice how the real lowlifes and trolls here always find some way to defend themselves (aka the indefensible) by making some scatological reference. It's like they have shit on the brain. Your Poor White Trash background is showing again son. Just in case you are keeping score, there were pictures of my Buffalo in that packet. Yes, I own a Harley (down to just one at the moment)and a Jaguar convertible, and as even you can see; I have been to Africa. I will admit to some curiosity as to why my life has such interest for you. Looking to find a life well lived to base your failed one on? My first double was purchased in summer of 1995, when Krieghoff introduced their Big Five at the NRA annual convention in Seattle. I took the 500NE off their display the final afternoon and Dieter Krieghoff got me some ammunition from Zander. scooty, oops scotty: tell the nice people why you missed SCI Reno this year. Vegas line says you won't be their next year either. regards to the both of you. I do need to wean you two a little. In thirty-nine days I am headed back to Africa hunting again. Do the two of you have somebody to play with while I'm gone yet? Rich | |||
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Buff Killer, While you're over there look up Buzz or Ivan and see if they can find you a big jumbo bull with huge ivory to shoot with that new double of yours.  | |||
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Chobe... Rich is not the kind of guy you want to mess with. Go find an easier target. He does not need my defense but is the kind of guy I like to think of as a friend. Go make your trip whatever you want it to be. I wish you success and hope to hear a great report. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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No offense, but Rich is a windbag. | |||
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Well I can say that I have met Idaho Sharpshooter... And I do not consider him a "fat, out of shape blowhard..." I can say, that on my 3 Zimbabwe Safaris, I used double rifles, and my PH's conducted my hunts in the tradition of "walking/stalking hunts. Most important, the PH, Trackers and I, all enjoyed ourselves, and had a great time, and a great hunt. I will admit, that I did take Malaria medicine, and I did have ice for my Gin & Tonics, and my Scotch... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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You are absolutely right Chobe. It is exactly why someone coined the phrase "Champagne Safari". They bear little or no resemblance to real hunting of yesteryear. It's all about pampering to the client and making sure he is tucked into bed at night with his teddy. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the average PH though. I have met many and bar one (he was a fat blowhard dickhead, in Bots) they are fine and bloody tough gentleman, mostly with fine senses of humour. It is their job however, to pander to the needs (keep him alive) of the modern day hunter. It's a very competitive business and as they say, you have to "keep the customer satisfied".  | |||
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If I am an "Old fart" and want some luxury on a safari what is that to anyone else to say poo poo? I respect the desire to rough it but if I want some expensive cigars and scotch on a safari I will have it. Why do people go on safari? The experience The hunt The thread count, type of vehicle or bathrooms has little to do with it. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Certainly, Dick..I wasn't there because I had never planned on being there in the 1st place. You threatening to "whoop my ass" via PM came less than 2 weeks before the show was to begin. Most folks plan their lives out a couple of weeks, me being no exception with a young family I like to spend my off time with. Reno 2010 was never in my plans.. Pity though. I do regret it now. As for this coming year's show, you can bet your old ass I'll be there. I've got a Kyrgystan Ibex hunt to wrap up with the outfitter, and then take care of you. As I've said, I am counting down the days.. A little more than 10 months and counting!! Can't wait. I'll look for the homeless looking fellow with the whiskey and tobacco stains in his smelly beard. Should be an easy standout in the Reno crowd. Shall I post the prior thread of PMs on here in all their glory for all to see? I'm sure there'd be more than a few who would love to read them. Remember ISS, it was you who came to me wanting to sling shit. I was only more than willing to oblige once the 1st insult was slung out there. AS for you going back to Africa.. I knew that, along with each and every one of us. You let each and every one of us know it in every post you make. Hell, we still hear about your 1st safari most every day and it was 2 years ago. And for your info (I'm tired of retyping this for you in each thread, but hey, you asked what I was doing) I leave May 6th (do I need to start a count down like you?) for SA for a Vaal Rhebok/Grysbok/Blue Duiker hunt in the East Cape.. On October 8th, I leave for Zimbabwe for buffalo/elephant/klipspringer/hyena. Will I need to repost this tomorrow when you sober up? I certainly hope not. BTW, Chobe, I kind of like a nice camp, good food, and an ice cold drink in the evenings. A safari like Scruffy just pulled off would be fun to try once, but I damned sure wouldn't want to make a habit of it. All those reasons you listed are reasons I enjoy hunting Africa so much! I get enough roughing it here for coues deer, mountain climbs, etc.. | |||
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Sound like a showdown at high noon.  I think I will put that date in my diary. Nothing like a good brawl, it's good for the soul.  Any bookmakers on this forum? We need to get some odds and start the betting.  | |||
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CB- I imagine that you have so pissed off a number of posters here on AR that I could get more than enough volunteers to provide you with all the "fetid water" you need to get ready for your version of a REAL safari. If you are rude and act like a troll, you will be treated accordingly. I bet you"ll say that doesn't bother you in the least, right? So, if you don't want to interact, then why are you here?  And you should know that some of us here, including ISS, have spent more time in hot, miserable jungles, drinking warm water and eating cold rations, while little people tried to kill us, at one stretch than you will ever accumulate in your entire life. We counted the days.  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Sounds like there's a few youngsters on here who miss their momma.  Don't worry mommy be home soon, I'm all through with her." Knowledge without experience is just information. " - Mark Twain | |||
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Salute  " Knowledge without experience is just information. " - Mark Twain | |||
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It seems we have some members who prefer to stick their heads in the sand when it comes to reality in hunting. Those who have hunted in the old days did not hunt they way they did because they had a choice. They used every means at their disposal to make theit hunts enjoyable and comfortable. Those who don't believe this, might as well pick a spear and go hunting on foot. Leave the rifles behind, and hire your own porters and have a go. | |||
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I agree with Saeed. We all typically hunt in the most comfortable way we can. When I sheep hunt I like to take a nylon tent because that's a lot more comfortable then a tarp, even though I have to carry another 6 pounds. The old timers hunted Africa the best way they knew how or could afford and most of them were doing it for a living, not for sport. When I hunt Africa it sure is nice to be pampered, but thats not why I hunt there, I'd do it even if I had to carry that 50 pound pack and sleep on the track. Chobe your presentation needs a little work, a question to the forum regarding this topic would have sufficed, instead of calling us that hunt Africa at the present time, fat ass softies. | |||
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When I was young and in my prime (if one can call it that) I had a mortage to pay two kids to raise, provide for their college education etc. Those were my priorities, now that I am getting a bit long in the tooth and can afford to go to Africa hunting and want to do it with some creature comforts it sure as H*ll isn't anyones business but mine. The rest of the opinionated world can just P*ss off! | |||
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chobe, was the purpose of the thread really about Africa or a reason to attack ISS? I don't understand and then scottyboy piles on? Let's keep our postings to the topic or take them private since it detracts from the site. yes, i know, i don't have to read them. that's true. i'm merely standing up for the reason we are all supposedly here and that is to discuss common interest. your vitriol hardly qualifies as discussion. looks more like a sucker punch to me and real men don't take sucker punches. | |||
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This is actually pretty disgusting. ISS has a distinguished service record which really should put these petty punk ass jabs and attacks into perspective. I would suggest equivalence of the same unselfishness and dedication prior to the attackers being deemed qualified to tote ISS dirty laundry. | |||
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Chobe: I think the heart of your post is very valid. You've raised an interesting point; that is, 'How have safaris changed over the past century?' I was all prepared to respond and then your wording turned south. And then well-the rest is history. Could you please re-phrase your initial post and tone-down the language, because I think you'd get a lot of mileage on this topic. It would be interesting reading the responses and exchanges on this issue you're raised. | |||
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Chobe, While I realize you are wealth of wisdom and experience, if you want to rough it in Africa it's not an experience hard to acquire. I lived for 3 years in a village without electricity and water, in a mud hut, in the Central Africa Empire, all at US taxpayer expense as a Peace Corps Volunteer. If you are a US citizen this opportunity is open to you as well. Since I'm no longer a Volunteer and work for money, I can still help you obtain that unobtainable experience you think is so valuable. Assuming you have any skills, I have some job openings in Juba, Southern Sudan, some job openings in Chad, some in the C.A.R. and some in Eastern Congo. You may not like the lifestyle (internet connections are not always assured), and you might even have to work with Africans, thereby allowing you to hold forth on multiple internet forums as an expert. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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i have never had anyone walk into camp and ask if we can make it a bit less comfortable - i agree the safaris today are not at all like they were many years ago , however i do know that there are a lot of options out there for people who would like to backpack , hunt entirely on foot , cover a lot of miles sleeping on the ground and drinking from springs - i have guided a number of these and they usually lose their romance by about day three !! they are a lot of fun however and if you are inclined towards that kind of adventure its not hard to find . "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Every one of CB's sited hunters was a pro ivory hunter, I believe. If we wish to consider more comparable sportsman hunters, look no further than Teddy Roosevelt's safari. Or maybe a bit more recently, Raurk's safaris. Or Hemmingway's. Not too much missing. No electricity. But then, some beers were brewed to be drank warm. And that is why Scotch is distilled, a little Scotch cleans up that warm fetid water and the fetid water makes the Scotch mush more pleasant. The Land Rover's and Toyota's great contribution to safari isn't carting older, fatter hunters, though they certainly do that, their contribution is allowing a month's safari to be stuffed into a week. Take a typical mid to upper 40's guy, give him three months or a year for a safari, he'll come back fit, Toyota or not. And hey, a shower is great, but not any more effective than a bath. And other than sleeping on tracks and relatively infrequently when on the move to different areas, the old pros had their camps near rivers and springs. You don't think that TR and friends didn't have hot water heaters similar to the ones the camp stafs use today do you? Hell, some of the ones that I have seen in use probably date to Raurk's day, sure look like it. You ought to do a little more reading CB, it would be highly educational. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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X2 Free 500grains | |||
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Old kenyan saying( just because I'm in the bush does not mean I have to be uncomfortible) I for one have lived in the bush and there is no reason to be uncomfortible or do without the finer things you enjoy ie. scotch,good food,warm tent, myself I think some new peple on this site are yzumu!!!!! or just out to stir shit up | |||
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Chobe I just don't get it. Why come to this forum and be rude and aggressive towards the members? I find it depressing that men will hide behind a forum to abuse others ad say things in manner they would never dream of in a face to face situation. You may actually have a point of view that is challenging and worthy of discussion. If you want to be treated seriously, be respectful. | |||
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I agree with Ivan !! Not many clients can last more than a few days really roughing it in Africa. Us "oldies" who have spent time in the military, or building, camps, opening roads or recceing new areas have a good knowledge and experience of roughing it - its fun for a while - however we also enjoy coming back to a comfortable bed, hot shower, cold beer and someone elses good cooking - makes us appreciate what we have here in Africa as an old safari culture. However we can rough it with the best of them if the need arises - and adapt to the situation a lot quicker than most. Mark  Mark DeWet Mark DeWet Safaris - Africa E-mail: marksafex@icon.co.za  ... purveyors of traditional African safaris | |||
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I am also considering a plans game hunt along the traditional lines, hunting from a tent and either doing it all on foot or arranging to meet the pick up at a certain point. Sometimes if one is simply driven around until the selected animal is found it can almost spoil the hunt. I think this would work well on a non trophy hunt as the pressure to find the right animal would be removed, obviously having radio contact with the jeep would be helpful for carcase recovery. | |||
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Well said Small Bore. There is nothing that says we all have to agree on anything; I have disagreed with Saeed a few times. Hell, Sumner Redstone said this morning on CNBC that disagreement often brings out the truth. But treating others disrespectfully is uncalled for. As I said before Chobe, you strike me as a "wannabee" who knows he never "will be." | |||
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WHY should you just rough it on safaris??? Real men rough it all the time!!!! Get rid of your car, phone, internet... HELL GET ON A STREAMSHIP AND SET SAIL FOR MOMBASSA! I always find it interesting those who attack technology...famous quote "the reason we aren't in the stone-age isn't because we ran out of stone!" RICH...Looks like we could have fun together on a hunt! | |||
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Oryxhunter1983, and the rest of you, thank you all for the support. One of the two "Anti-ISS" posters told me in a PM that we (here on the AR forum) couldn't be friends, since we had never met in person. This pretty much shows different. The wonderful crowd here that "knows" me from over the years pretty much sees the actual me. I enlisted and went to Vietnam. Army Rangers. My Father was 82nd Airborne in WWII and went in over Normandy in a Glider. Ever seen one? They make them out of plywood and 2x4's. The wheels fall off when you get airborne. No motor. The dang things; every landing is a crash landing. They weren't recyclable. I come home in May of 1968 and tell him I enlisted in the Army and I'm going to be an Airborne Ranger. He says "are you crazy? There's a war on.". I say, hmmmmmmmmm; this coming from a guy who got a Mohawk the night before D-Day and glided in...". He says, "you really had to be there to understand...". I just told him, "we'll have this conversation again in a year. Twenty-five months and ten days in RVN later, we had that talk. I never set out to be a hero there. I just wanted to serve my country. So, I did. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: I am not anybody special here. I did the same wife, kids, and mortgage thing you all are either going through, or have finished up like me. I'm an Elk Hunter by choice, but I read Ruark in the fourth grade and I have carried that dream since. I thought Zimbabwe was the neatest place I'd ever seen. Walked right at 140 kilometers chasing Buffalo in a week before I got a nice bull to stand still long enough to get the sticks up and take the shot. Woo-Hoo! Elephants, man we saw lots of Ele. They look even bigger from eight or ten feet away in rifle sights. I absolutely do not mean to brag, there are hundreds of people here who have been to Africa many trips. I live near 465H&H. He doesn't brag, but he has made several safaris hunting Elephant; and with great results. There are others as well. I'm just getting a late start in Africa, and the joy is too great to keep to myself. Schopenauer once said "happiness was born a twin...". I like big bore rifles too. Rich | |||
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+ 1 " Knowledge without experience is just information. " - Mark Twain | |||
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Interestingly enough, for people that like roughing it (I don't have full details but am trying to find them out) my uncle has an old friend that is selling his place in Alaska due to his health. Apparently it's pretty much inaccessible during the winter, costs you 4500 bucks to get a truck and boat ferried over, and the only power is generator. I know not as tough as the Africa you're talking about, BUT- you could try staying through winter! In seriousness, I dream of hunting africa some day, and don't want it to be all hottubs, tiled showers and spa treatment. at the same time I don't want it uncomfortable. My no. 1 request, somebody check my bed for snakes at night (I hate snakes, I fear them, honest to God fear) and that they try not to break my bottles of bourbon. I read ruarks too. didn't sound too terribly rough. Red | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting The Romance versus Reality of Old Africa
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