quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
I think allowing members to post under multiple aliases is a big mistake. It seems to me a precedent was set by allowing lonestar2075 to post under multiple aliases, and now it seems every topic that might be the least bit controversial we have people showing up, who obviously post here regularly under different screen names, and making wild accusations. I do not believe anything any of them say, because if they did not have something to hide they would be posting under their regular screen name.

Or...one could fear repercussion while in-country for just pointing out the truth.

If that were the case then I would have the same concerns listed by others about a conflict of interest.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
I think allowing members to post under multiple aliases is a big mistake. It seems to me a precedent was set by allowing lonestar2075 to post under multiple aliases, and now it seems every topic that might be the least bit controversial we have people showing up, who obviously post here regularly under different screen names, and making wild accusations. I do not believe anything any of them say, because if they did not have something to hide they would be posting under their regular screen name.

Or...one could fear repercussion while in-country for just pointing out the truth.

If that were the case then I would have the same concerns listed by others about a conflict of interest.

One doesn't have to have a conflict of interest to be in Zim.

Besides...I have presented the facts...my job is done...let the chips fall where they may.

But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

quote:

But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

You mean we need more notorious individuals than you lot here?

How can I in good concience spend my money for a hunt in Zimbabwe? Do I have to look elsewhere in Africa for a hunt or is the whole country plagued with theft of land?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

You mean we need more notorious individuals than you lot here?

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

You mean we need more notorious individuals than you lot here?

Perhaps the Vincents, Roy and Allen, would chime in with their recollections of the history of the areas. They were there.

Though I think nothing will change the opinions of those with an agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

You mean we need more notorious individuals than you lot here?

Perhaps the Vincents, Roy and Allen, would chime in with their recollections of the history of the areas. They were there.

Though I think nothing will change the opinions of those with an agenda.

I have no agenda other than reporting the story as an old Rhodesian friend who reads AR tells me.

Remember the Savory Cell Grazing System was developed in Zim...well Rhodesia. Even old cow-traders keep up with the atrocities committed there.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

Not in the least. Why would anyone want to provide legitimacy to a random alias on the internet making wild claims? If you want to be taken seriously post under your regular screen name and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm beginning to suspect you are not trading in the whole cow, but rather a specific byproduct.

Well...there certainly has been some in here! But walking the salebarns...I am used to having it on my boots.

Like I said before...I presented the truth...it is up to the jury to decide. Go gather your own data based on what I presented. Learning is a GOOD thing!

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

Not in the least. Why would anyone want to provide legitimacy to a random alias on the internet making wild claims? If you want to be taken seriously post under your regular screen name and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm beginning to suspect you are not trading in the whole cow, but rather a specific byproduct.

I have no idea who this guy is. For argument sake, assume he is a Zimbo. If he reveals his identity, isn't he taking a really big risk?

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

You mean we need more notorious individuals than you lot here?

Perhaps the Vincents, Roy and Allen, would chime in with their recollections of the history of the areas. They were there.

Though I think nothing will change the opinions of those with an agenda.

Roy is no longer in Zimbabwe, and he does not like computers - read that as he does not have enough BRAINS to understand them, as Walter keeps telling him, because Walter is an absolute genius's with computers.

He is the only person I have ever known who takes a brand new computer and turns it into a deadweight in a few hours.

And don't ask how he does it, because he has done it many times, and despite all his efforts to explain that it was NOT his fault, we have never got to the bottom of it.

Alan is hunting in Tanzania, and is setting up his camp right now.

Lets work our way up to a few factual updates on the REPUTABLE guys out there. Not a single Zim outfitter stood up to assist in determining that Chiwenga does in fact have Unit 6.
Not a single US hunter on Unit 6 since 2005? LIE.
Why the silence all of a sudden? Rob Styles in business with Chiwenga on Unit 6, lets make our way to hmmm Nuanetsi. Guys who book hunters to Nuanetsi, how many operators on AR hunt Nuanetsi? Who are they really in business with on Nuanetsi? Reputable guys please provide names.

quote:

Originally posted by nkomo:
Lets work our way up to a few factual updates on the REPUTABLE guys out there. Not a single Zim outfitter stood up to assist in determining that Chiwenga does in fact have Unit 6.
Not a single US hunter on Unit 6 since 2005? LIE.
Why the silence all of a sudden? Rob Styles in business with Chiwenga on Unit 6, lets make our way to hmmm Nuanetsi. Guys who book hunters to Nuanetsi, how many operators on AR hunt Nuanetsi? Who are they really in business with on Nuanetsi? Reputable guys please provide names.

Could you please tell us who owns what then?
And the names of the partners and who are their agents in the US?

quote:

Originally posted by nkomo:

Not a single US hunter on Unit 6 since 2005? LIE.

Mr. Howell,

If you are a US citizen...an important thing to remember when you hunt Zim on a government concession...is to ask who the 'indigenous partner' is and check against the banned list.

ALL government concession holders are either indigenous themselves or have an indigenous partner.

By Zim definition...if you are not BLACK...you CANNOT be indigenous.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

But...do you not find it puzzling that no-one of notoriety showed up to dispute any of the facts presented?

Not in the least. Why would anyone want to provide legitimacy to a random alias on the internet making wild claims? If you want to be taken seriously post under your regular screen name and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm beginning to suspect you are not trading in the whole cow, but rather a specific byproduct.

I have no idea who this guy is. For argument sake, assume he is a Zimbo. If he reveals his identity, isn't he taking a really big risk?

If he is a Zimbo and posting here, then he has some sort of interest in the local hunting industry and that does back to the conflict of interest. He could just as easily be an internet know it all who has never even been to Africa and is garnering his knowledge from this and other forums.

I also want to point out I do not know any of the people he is accusing and will probably never hunt with any of them, but not because of anything that has been posted on this thread.

You will notice that Mr. Howell has not come back to dispute what Nkomo stated about US citizens hunting Matetsi unit 6 since 2005 because if he really had access to check...he would have found out he was wrong...US citizens are STILL booked there.

quote:

By Zim definition...if you are not BLACK...you CANNOT be indigenous.

A definition by ANY African country for that matter and regardless if you hold citizenship.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cow-trader:
You will notice that Mr. Howell has not come back to dispute ...QUOTE] Yada, Yada, Yada.

Cow-flop, sorry to have delayed your rant. in transit from VFA to JNB and PLZ. No time for your agenda.

And yes, MY name is Les Howell, what's yours?

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cow-trader:
You will notice that Mr. Howell has not come back to dispute ...QUOTE] Yada, Yada, Yada.

Cow-flop, sorry to have delayed your rant. in transit from VFA to JNB and PLZ. No time for your agenda.

And yes, MY name is Les Howell, what's yours?

My agenda is for the truth to be told and known by all so that everyone can make an INFORMED decision on whom to hunt with and where to hunt.

I still did not hear a dispute of the fact that US citizens have hunted Matetsi 6 since 2005???

Your name and that of your cohort Nkomo are required for continued play here.

Soon. Headed back into the bush in the morning.

Good bye.

I am pretty busy and don't have time to read all of this. Is the nature of the dispute between LHowell &Cow-trader solely over the lack of disclosure of names or is there something else?

Larry

It's not worth your time.[or anyones really]

Cow and I have posted completely contradictory comments about the LEASEE of Matesi Unit 6 and those organizing the hunting there. I guess it depends on who you wish to believe. You know who I am [or could, I'm just down I-4].
No one knows who these guys are.
So save your time.

Les

cow -trader Rog Style only books none US clients into unit 6 and has not booked any US clients into unit 6 since the US banned list has been out.

Buffalo Range Safaris books all thier US clients that hunt in Matetsi into forestry areas ,this is fact.

Your statment that all goverment concession holders are indigenous or have partners is B S as well .If you dispute this feel free to comtact me.

Cow

I don't understand the reference to "Savory" from an earlier post.

Les is likely correct and there is no reason to doubt what he has to say. Americans are hunting forestry areas instead of the concession. Does that mean I would knowingly hunt with someone who has certain partners, no.

Certain hunters have higher ethics than others and will not hunt on confiscated lands, take questionable hunts and hunt with outfits that are less than stellar and/or have low life partners.

There are some very good people in Zimbabwe that deserve support.

I presented the truth in a thread that is entitled: Illegal Hunting in Matetsi Unit 6.

Take it or leave it.

quote:

Originally posted by TNJohn:

There are some very good people in Zimbabwe that deserve support.

quote:

Originally posted by Frik Muller:
cow -trader Rog Style only books none US clients into unit 6 and has not booked any US clients into unit 6 since the US banned list has been out.

Buffalo Range Safaris books all thier US clients that hunt in Matetsi into forestry areas ,this is fact.

Your statment that all goverment concession holders are indigenous or have partners is B S as well .If you dispute this feel free to comtact me.

Just post the 'official list' of concession holders.

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
Your name and that of your cohort Nkomo are required for continued play here.

Soon. Headed back into the bush in the morning.

Good bye.

General Chiwenga (with the active support of his wife Jocelyn), as leader of the Zimbabwe National Army, is directly responsible for the torture and murder of thousands of Zimbabweans. Jocelyn herself took great pride in publicizing her theft of farmland from white Zimbabweans by means of death threats...google it!!!

It is obviously prudent for any criticism or exposure of the business activities of these people to be done under an alias.

Threat of murder to silence critics - thats how terrorism works!!!

Hard to alias an IP address.

This thread has raised some good questions and also a few blood pressures but as I see it, the most important questions haven't been raised at all.

I can surely understand why some people who live in Zim or even have family and/or friends there may well want to be coy about their identity and/or location because there are plenty of really evil bastards in charge there.

I can also understand there could possibly be a bit of industrial espionage going on....... it wouldn't be the first time but that may not necessarily be the case. Alternatively, it could be that what is being posted is purely to ensure innocent hunters don't get dropped in the kak.

I can even understand why some people might want to be a bit coy about who has hunted and/or is going to hunt certain areas and even that some operators might want to be coy about who they have as business partners.

But let's face facts here.

First of all, IF (note the big IF) any operator, no matter who they are or how good or bad they are, has to give half his business away, he has to ask himself is he going to give it to someone like his garden boy who might be a nice guy and reasonably honest or is he going to give it to someone who has a degree of authority, power and control and who can give him a degree of protection and support?

We've also seen a lot of talk about American clients who may or may not have hunted certain areas and how they need to be protected from doing business with the wrong 'sleeping partner'.......... well you know what. It's not just the Americans who need that protection. The Brits and other Europeans all do and so do many others from other countries because most countries have similar lists as the Americans do and those non American clients deserve exactly the same protection as the Americans......... food for thought on that one huh?

We've also seen the good people at PHASA step in with a public statement and it's a good thing they protect and represent their members but it doesn't necessarily mean that member isn't selling hunting on seized land or who he's doing business with. We have after all had a new member who (to me at least) appears to be involved in that particular can of worms who very obviously hated us white oppressors and didn't give a flying f**k who he might drop in the smelly brown stuff in their own country. I'm not suggesting the guy in question is or isn't good or bad or is or isn't doing business with certain individuals......just that those particular issues were not addressed. I'm not having a pop at the guy or at anyone else. I'm just saying that there are many issues that perhaps should be addressed but haven't.

There's also the question of are all hunters, no matter where they're from made aware of who the 'sleeping partners' are because I'm sure there are some 'sleeping partners' the clients may prefer not to deal with even if they're not on the banned lists from the various countries.

I'm not suggesting I know the answers because I know I don't but perhaps one first step might be for ANY hunter who wants to book a hunt in Zimbabwe to make a point of asking the name of ALL shareholders in the company in question AND ALL shareholders of the land they'll be hunting before they book and only deal with those companies/individuals who are fully above board, open, honest, ethical and reputable.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Frik Muller:
cow -trader Rog Style only books none US clients into unit 6 and has not booked any US clients into unit 6 since the US banned list has been out.

Buffalo Range Safaris books all thier US clients that hunt in Matetsi into forestry areas ,this is fact.

Your statment that all goverment concession holders are indigenous or have partners is B S as well .If you dispute this feel free to comtact me.

Just post the 'official list' of concession holders.

The way I understand it, an individual has no choice in who gets as partner.

The authorities tell you who to get in agreement with.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by Frik Muller:
cow -trader Rog Style only books none US clients into unit 6 and has not booked any US clients into unit 6 since the US banned list has been out.

Buffalo Range Safaris books all thier US clients that hunt in Matetsi into forestry areas ,this is fact.

Your statment that all goverment concession holders are indigenous or have partners is B S as well .If you dispute this feel free to comtact me.

Just post the 'official list' of concession holders.

Frik,

Where are you man??? Put your money where your mouth is. You said to contact you and I am. Post the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Frik Muller:
cow -trader Rog Style only books none US clients into unit 6 and has not booked any US clients into unit 6 since the US banned list has been out.

Buffalo Range Safaris books all thier US clients that hunt in Matetsi into forestry areas ,this is fact.

Your statment that all goverment concession holders are indigenous or have partners is B S as well .If you dispute this feel free to comtact me.

Frik,

Welcome to AR.

What you state is news to us, as we have always been led to believe that all government concessions have to have an indigenous partner.

Would you be so kind to let us know what the facts are?

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
THIS IS THE LATEST PHASA NEWSLETTER.

________________________________________
REPORT CONCERNING PHASA MEMBER ON ACCURATE RELOADING WEB FORUM

It recently came to PHASA’s attention that certain inaccurate accusations, aimed at PHASA member Joe da Silva, were posted on the web forum Accurate Reloading on 31 May 2013 concerning the issue of poaching in Matetsi Unit 6, Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe.

Mr. da Silva brought the following to our attention:

Kalulu Safaris is currently registered in Zimbabwe and owned by Marriott Mashonynika (Mash) who is a registered outfitter and Professional Hunter in Zimbabwe. Mr. Da Silva’s role is a support role/booking agent based in Cape Town.

In the last 30 years Mr. Da Silva, as a member of PHASA, has not been involved in any illegal hunting or breaking of any laws with regards to hunting and outfitting in South Africa and across our borders.

The matter involves clients and a professional hunter that were caught poaching in Unit 6, Matetsi, using Kalulu Safaris’ name and details.

Initial investigations indicate that the professional hunter that was arrested is from the company Kholisa Safaris, Bulawayo. The said PH had fraudulently used the name, Kalulu Safaris, its HOP number and officially got a TR2 stamp by National Parks. The main director of Kholisa Safaris is Eugene Ncube, whom Mr. Da Silva does not know and with whom he has never had any dealings.

KALULU SAFARIS HAD ABSOLUTELY NO INVOLVEMENTWITH THIS ILLEGAL HUNTING ACTIVITY. Kalulu Safaris has not been charged with any misconduct or with any other charges, ever.

The entire unfortunate situation is currently under investigation.

Dave, While this does show timely interest on the part of PHASA, and I am sure it is appreciated by the parties involved. But what about the South African PH arrested and convicted in this case? Where does PHASA stand on that issue?


And by the way, I wonder who was the South African, driving his own SA registered high end Toyota SUV, accompanied by the PH that is known to book hunts for the occupiers of the Woodlands?
He was there this last weekend.
Looking at hunting opportunities?

Looked a little surprised to run into a Land Cruiser full of legal hunters on the border road!!! Oops!

Les

Who is this PH know to book hunts for the occupiers of the Woodlands ?

Are you sure the hunters weren't driving in a Toyota pick-up with Zim registration when you saw them on the boarder road ???

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
Your name and that of your cohort Nkomo are required for continued play here.

Soon. Headed back into the bush in the morning.

Good bye.

Nkomo means " Cow " in Zulu , Xhosa and Matabele , just saying

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Frik Muller:
cow -trader Rog Style only books none US clients into unit 6 and has not booked any US clients into unit 6 since the US banned list has been out.

Buffalo Range Safaris books all thier US clients that hunt in Matetsi into forestry areas ,this is fact.

Your statment that all goverment concession holders are indigenous or have partners is B S as well .If you dispute this feel free to comtact me.

Frik,

Welcome to AR.

What you state is news to us, as we have always been led to believe that all government concessions have to have an indigenous partner.

Would you be so kind to let us know what the facts are?

Hi Saeed
Thanks for the welcome.
It has never been Law that all Goverment concession holders have to have indigenous partners ,the directors of these company's have to be Citizens of Zimbabwe and must be vetoed by National Parks befor they can bid for an area .
They are however putting in place laws that all Safari operators with a nett assit value of more than $1 must have a 51% indigenous partner ,as with most company's in this country .
I don't mind posting the company's that have the leases on cocessions but will not state who does and does not have a partner on this forum .