quote:

Hell, we gave then the ammunition and photographic evidence to kill our own sport.

We just had to feed our insatiable ego's by posting hero shots all over the place.

quote:

Someone ask about minding if they see a deer tied to a car or truck. I sure dont care and still look for them around hunting season in Pa.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
How many on here, regardless of your stance on the face marking topic, feel that all the "High Fiving" and other such displays on hunting programs/videos are okay?

How many have stopped watching hunting programs over such things?

How many on here constantly attack Mark Sullivan over his exploits?

How many on here have no qualms about shooting a lion/leopard or a black bear over a bait or been brought to bay with dogs, while at the same time practically loathing the concept of shooting white tail deer or other hoofed game over a baited area or at a waterhole or in close proximity to a vehicle?

This face paining topic is merely another symptom of greater problem among the Hunting Public. It does not matter where any of us hunt or have hunted, what matters is that ALL of us, World Wide, embrace the concept that we are not really each others enemy.

As individuals we are all entitled and have the right to our own personal beliefs and values, but to believe/wish/pretend that every/any other hunter on this planet is going to agree 100% with what we as individuals believe to be perfectly acceptable behavior, borders on being ludicrous.

To believe that ALL hunters are united and ready to confront the forces that want to take hunting away from us, is simply not reality.

As individuals, we need to continue doing what is legal and we are comfortable doing, just don't be naive and believe everyone else will agree with it.

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Hunting is a blood sport. No two ways around it.

No sence in pussyfooting around the subject. It is not a delicate matter and it is very violent. You are creating absolute and complete devistation to the animal you are KILLING..

Why hide it? Why lie to ourselves and the world of what takes place.

We all know we don't hunt to just kill something, but that is exactly why we hunt. It's the whole point of it.

I guess we can all just go watch another Disney movie and sing around the campfire and keep our heads in the sand and pretend we are just putting the animal to sleep instead of killing it.

Wow you guys... I really don't get it wanting to hide what we are.

I've said it before, I will never hide in a closet for what I am or what I do, no matter what the reason. If you like to, that's your right.

I also don't like rubbing it in peoples faces either. If people want to come to my Facebook or on Accuratereloading.com, that isn't rubbing it in to thier face. They came looking.

You are willing to kill something and share it with others out of the kindness of your heart, just as long as somebody somebody pays money for it....

Cause that don't make us look bad....

Todd

quote:

Are you the same CrazyHorse that post in the ARPF? Can't be...you make sense when your not in there

quote:

social media is not our friend.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
social media is not our friend.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
Yup and because everyone is picky on who they show pictures to or scared to show what they enjoy is why we are losing the battle. The younger people have no idea what hunting is anymore and with not getting on the new ways we will not get many of them to think about hunting.

The way some people look at this subject makes it out like everyone hates hunting or scared to see a dead animal. That is so far from the truth. A few people make a stink and we all think it is the majority but it is not.

When my son took pic's from his trip to school must of the kids wanted to see them and talk about his hunt. One teacher had a problem with the pic's and asked him not to show them. His other 7 teacher had no problem at all. So we are our own worse enemy with how we think we cant show what we love and enjoy to others because a few make some noise.

quote:

Respectful photos is a must.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I would add cutting elephant tails to it. One would have really difficulty finding anyone who is not a hunter supporting it.

Mike

quote:

After tracking for 11 long days no one was going to stop me from cutting that Elephant's tail off. It's tradition and I chose to do a traditional Elephant tracking hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I would add cutting elephant tails to it. One would have really difficulty finding anyone who is not a hunter supporting it.

Mike

Mike,

I can't remember if you have hunted or killed Elephant. If I recall correctly I believe you once posted you would never hunt one. I respect that as your choice to somehow decide an Elephant is different than any other prey targeted on a hunt.

After tracking for 11 long days no one was going to stop me from cutting that Elephant's tail off. It's tradition and I chose to do a traditional Elephant tracking hunt with a 114 year old British double.

That was the experience I signed on for.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I would add cutting elephant tails to it. One would have really difficulty finding anyone who is not a hunter supporting it.

Mike

Mike,

I can't remember if you have hunted or killed Elephant. If I recall correctly I believe you once posted you would never hunt one. I respect that as your choice to somehow decide an Elephant is different than any other prey targeted on a hunt.

After tracking for 11 long days no one was going to stop me from cutting that Elephant's tail off. It's tradition and I chose to do a traditional Elephant tracking hunt with a 114 year old British double.

That was the experience I signed on for.

Cheers
Jim

Hey Jim:

I wrote a really wrong response and somehow it got lost in uploading.


My view is that cutting elephant tails does not sit well with the general public. Google elephant tail cutting - only negative stuff.

The background of cutting elephant tails is not in hunting by tracking or in old english doubles. It is in the commercial hunting of ivory. Old time commercial ivory hunters cut tails of dead elephants to signify ownership and possession. They were not hunting for meat or hides and left elephant carcasses as they went and killed other elephants for ivory. The cut tail signified to any other hunting parties that came along that this animal belonged to the ivory hunter that killed it (more correctly it belonged to somebody). Eventually the hunter or his team would come back to the elephant and harvest the ivory. Now that tradition may be repacked by the hunting industry as a rite of passage for hunting a elephant but its roots are in commercial ivory hunting.

I have no interest in elephant hunting but I support elephant hunting. I also have serious issues with the absolute devastation taking place to Africa's elephants - something that cannot be reversed for many generations if ever.

I think elephants should be hunted scientifically like they do in the Save Conservancy. Hunt a few males (I think 8-10 in the save) and let the professionals cull herds for population control. The culling of elephants is a brutal business and there is a reason why its now shown to the public. It has very solid conservation foundations. But its tough to sell a conservation program that often involves baby elephants being culled/shot/killed with 7.62x51 military rifles.

I just think it is a very tough marketing proposition to the general public why elephants should be hunted - a cut tail picture adds little to this tough sales process. And public opinion does matter cause the public elects politicians who can take away rights to hunt or import hunting trophies via laws and administrating/executive rulings.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I would add cutting elephant tails to it. One would have really difficulty finding anyone who is not a hunter supporting it.

Mike

Mike,

I can't remember if you have hunted or killed Elephant. If I recall correctly I believe you once posted you would never hunt one. I respect that as your choice to somehow decide an Elephant is different than any other prey targeted on a hunt.

After tracking for 11 long days no one was going to stop me from cutting that Elephant's tail off. It's tradition and I chose to do a traditional Elephant tracking hunt with a 114 year old British double.

That was the experience I signed on for.

Cheers
Jim

Hey Jim:

I wrote a really wrong response and somehow it got lost in uploading.


My view is that cutting elephant tails does not sit well with the general public. Google elephant tail cutting - only negative stuff.

The background of cutting elephant tails is not in hunting by tracking or in old english doubles. It is in the commercial hunting of ivory. Old time commercial ivory hunters cut tails of dead elephants to signify ownership and possession. They were not hunting for meat or hides and left elephant carcasses as they went and killed other elephants for ivory. The cut tail signified to any other hunting parties that came along that this animal belonged to the ivory hunter that killed it (more correctly it belonged to somebody). Eventually the hunter or his team would come back to the elephant and harvest the ivory. Now that tradition may be repacked by the hunting industry as a rite of passage for hunting a elephant but its roots are in commercial ivory hunting.

I have no interest in elephant hunting but I support elephant hunting. I also have serious issues with the absolute devastation taking place to Africa's elephants - something that cannot be reversed for many generations if ever.

I think elephants should be hunted scientifically like they do in the Save Conservancy. Hunt a few males (I think 8-10 in the save) and let the professionals cull herds for population control. The culling of elephants is a brutal business and there is a reason why its now shown to the public. It has very solid conservation foundations. But its tough to sell a conservation program that often involves baby elephants being culled/shot/killed with 7.62x51 military rifles.

I just think it is a very tough marketing proposition to the general public why elephants should be hunted - a cut tail picture adds little to this tough sales process. And public opinion does matter cause the public elects politicians who can take away rights to hunt or import hunting trophies via laws and administrating/executive rulings.

Mike

I couldn't legally bring back any parts of that Elephant. I do have the knife that cut off it's tail though.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I would argue the general public and media in the US is not as anti hunting as AR members make it out to be. Same time the general public is far more anti trophy hunting than AR members think it is.

On AR you will get lynched for shooting an eland of the back of a truck. The general public cares less if it sold as a hunting for meat thing

http://www.cnn.com/video/shows...th-africa/index.html


Cutting an elephant tail will get you a atta boy on AR but the general public will be horrified.

I really don't think it is possible to change the general publics view on trophy hunting.

I am with Steve Arhenberg - if you going to do trophy hunting (cats, elephants) stay out of the social media and general media spotlight.

Mike

quote:

I can't answer that, as each person is entitled to their own approach. My view is; if it is legal and clean, go forth. Legal is easy to define, clean can be up to interpretation.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

Excellent post Butch.jc

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

Excellent post Butch.jc

The flaw in that logic Butch is what others do does impact what you are able to do. A dentist with a history of game law violations from Minnesota decided to hunt a lion at night along the boundary of a national park with a bow and shot a collared lion. That became the rallying point for those that had been working for years to eliminate lion hunting. Game ranchers in South Africa decided to feed the demand for lion hunting by offering captive bred lion hunts of lions raised to be shot that were never intended to live and breed outside of a pen. That likewise became a rallying point for those interested in eliminating lion hunting. We know how that story ended . . . lions were uplisted.

Two points. One, we live in a different day and age with the prevalence of the Internet, social media and the like. We can pretend that old traditions should remain inviolate but the reality is that if the actions of a few are deemed reprehensible by the public at large, the few should not be surprised if their traditions come under attack when they lay them out in public places accessible to the general public. Two, tell those folks that had lion hunts booked after USFWS uplisted the lion that you should be allowed to do your thing and they can do their thing. Not the way it worked . . . their ability to do their thing was denied due to the actions of those that preceded them.

If folks want to rub blood all over each other faces, have at it. But it is beyond the possibility of serious debate that doing so today and putting your handiwork on display on the Internet and social media for all to see is shortsighted. And it is not a situation of "you mind your business and I will mind mine" . . . because in this instance your actions do have a real possibility of impacting others. I am as guilt as anyone of falling into this mindset in the past but at some point we have to realize that times are changing, hunting and hunters represent a minority and rubbing the noses of the public in the sport is not going to cause them to be more accepting or understanding of the sport . . . particularly practices like "blooding". If we do not start playing the game smarter, we should not be surprised, and will largely have ourselves to blame, when the next nail is hammered into the coffin of hunting.

. . . now, heeding the advice given by my colleagues above, back to my knitting while I grow a set of cojones . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

Excellent post Butch.jc

The flaw in that logic Butch is what others do does impact what you are able to do. A dentist with a history of game law violations from Minnesota decided to hunt a lion at night along the boundary of a national park with a bow and shot a collared lion. That became the rallying point for those that had been working for years to eliminate lion hunting. Game ranchers in South Africa decided to feed the demand for lion hunting by offering captive bred lion hunts of lions raised to be shot that were never intended to live and breed outside of a pen. That likewise became a rallying point for those interested in eliminating lion hunting. We know how that story ended . . . lions were uplisted.

Two points. One, we live in a different day and age with the prevalence of the Internet, social media and the like. We can pretend that old traditions should remain inviolate but the reality is that if the actions of a few are deemed reprehensible by the public at large, the few should not be surprised if their traditions come under attack when they lay them out in public places accessible to the general public. Two, tell those folks that had lion hunts booked after USFWS uplisted the lion that you should be allowed to do your thing and they can do their thing. Not the way it worked . . . their ability to do their thing was denied due to the actions of those that preceded them.

If folks want to rub blood all over each other faces, have at it. But it is beyond the possibility of serious debate that doing so today and putting your handiwork on display on the Internet and social media for all to see is shortsighted. And it is not a situation of "you mind your business and I will mind mine" . . . because in this instance your actions do have a real possibility of impacting others. I am as guilt as anyone of falling into this mindset in the past but at some point we have to realize that times are changing, hunting and hunters represent a minority and rubbing the noses of the public in the sport is not going to cause them to be more accepting or understanding of the sport . . . particularly practices like "blooding". If we do not start playing the game smarter, we should not be surprised, and will largely have ourselves to blame, when the next nail is hammered into the coffin of hunting.

. . . now, heeding the advice given by my colleagues above, back to my knitting while I grow a set of cojones . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

You might want to remove that word from your lexicon in relation to hunting. The masses you speak of don't accept hunting as a sport and certainly don't like it when you get a trophy for your sport.

On a side note....have you tried counted cross stitch?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

Excellent post Butch.jc

The flaw in that logic Butch is what others do does impact what you are able to do. A dentist with a history of game law violations from Minnesota decided to hunt a lion at night along the boundary of a national park with a bow and shot a collared lion. That became the rallying point for those that had been working for years to eliminate lion hunting. Game ranchers in South Africa decided to feed the demand for lion hunting by offering captive bred lion hunts of lions raised to be shot that were never intended to live and breed outside of a pen. That likewise became a rallying point for those interested in eliminating lion hunting. We know how that story ended . . . lions were uplisted.

Two points. One, we live in a different day and age with the prevalence of the Internet, social media and the like. We can pretend that old traditions should remain inviolate but the reality is that if the actions of a few are deemed reprehensible by the public at large, the few should not be surprised if their traditions come under attack when they lay them out in public places accessible to the general public. Two, tell those folks that had lion hunts booked after USFWS uplisted the lion that you should be allowed to do your thing and they can do their thing. Not the way it worked . . . their ability to do their thing was denied due to the actions of those that preceded them.

If folks want to rub blood all over each other faces, have at it. But it is beyond the possibility of serious debate that doing so today and putting your handiwork on display on the Internet and social media for all to see is shortsighted. And it is not a situation of "you mind your business and I will mind mine" . . . because in this instance your actions do have a real possibility of impacting others. I am as guilt as anyone of falling into this mindset in the past but at some point we have to realize that times are changing, hunting and hunters represent a minority and rubbing the noses of the public in the sport is not going to cause them to be more accepting or understanding of the sport . . . particularly practices like "blooding". If we do not start playing the game smarter, we should not be surprised, and will largely have ourselves to blame, when the next nail is hammered into the coffin of hunting.

. . . now, heeding the advice given by my colleagues above, back to my knitting while I grow a set of cojones . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

You might want to remove that word from your lexicon in relation to hunting. The masses you speak of don't accept hunting as a sport and certainly don't like it when you get a trophy for your sport.

On a side note....have you tried counted cross stitch?

Actually you are wrong. More than 50% of adult Americans nationwide strongly or moderately support "sport" as a motivation for hunting compared to about 25% where a "trophy" is the motivation. Always best to understand the data before stating conclusions.

. . . now back to the knitting . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

Excellent post Butch.jc

The flaw in that logic Butch is what others do does impact what you are able to do. A dentist with a history of game law violations from Minnesota decided to hunt a lion at night along the boundary of a national park with a bow and shot a collared lion. That became the rallying point for those that had been working for years to eliminate lion hunting. Game ranchers in South Africa decided to feed the demand for lion hunting by offering captive bred lion hunts of lions raised to be shot that were never intended to live and breed outside of a pen. That likewise became a rallying point for those interested in eliminating lion hunting. We know how that story ended . . . lions were uplisted.

Two points. One, we live in a different day and age with the prevalence of the Internet, social media and the like. We can pretend that old traditions should remain inviolate but the reality is that if the actions of a few are deemed reprehensible by the public at large, the few should not be surprised if their traditions come under attack when they lay them out in public places accessible to the general public. Two, tell those folks that had lion hunts booked after USFWS uplisted the lion that you should be allowed to do your thing and they can do their thing. Not the way it worked . . . their ability to do their thing was denied due to the actions of those that preceded them.

If folks want to rub blood all over each other faces, have at it. But it is beyond the possibility of serious debate that doing so today and putting your handiwork on display on the Internet and social media for all to see is shortsighted. And it is not a situation of "you mind your business and I will mind mine" . . . because in this instance your actions do have a real possibility of impacting others. I am as guilt as anyone of falling into this mindset in the past but at some point we have to realize that times are changing, hunting and hunters represent a minority and rubbing the noses of the public in the sport is not going to cause them to be more accepting or understanding of the sport . . . particularly practices like "blooding". If we do not start playing the game smarter, we should not be surprised, and will largely have ourselves to blame, when the next nail is hammered into the coffin of hunting.

. . . now, heeding the advice given by my colleagues above, back to my knitting while I grow a set of cojones . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

You might want to remove that word from your lexicon in relation to hunting. The masses you speak of don't accept hunting as a sport and certainly don't like it when you get a trophy for your sport.

On a side note....have you tried counted cross stitch?

Actually you are wrong. More than 50% of adult Americans nationwide strongly or moderately support "sport" as a motivation for hunting compared to about 25% where a "trophy" is the motivation. Always best to understand the data before stating conclusions.

. . . now back to the knitting . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

I'd rather have the 85% approval rating that hunting for meat enjoys.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral.
I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it.

Excellent post Butch.jc

The flaw in that logic Butch is what others do does impact what you are able to do. A dentist with a history of game law violations from Minnesota decided to hunt a lion at night along the boundary of a national park with a bow and shot a collared lion. That became the rallying point for those that had been working for years to eliminate lion hunting. Game ranchers in South Africa decided to feed the demand for lion hunting by offering captive bred lion hunts of lions raised to be shot that were never intended to live and breed outside of a pen. That likewise became a rallying point for those interested in eliminating lion hunting. We know how that story ended . . . lions were uplisted.

Two points. One, we live in a different day and age with the prevalence of the Internet, social media and the like. We can pretend that old traditions should remain inviolate but the reality is that if the actions of a few are deemed reprehensible by the public at large, the few should not be surprised if their traditions come under attack when they lay them out in public places accessible to the general public. Two, tell those folks that had lion hunts booked after USFWS uplisted the lion that you should be allowed to do your thing and they can do their thing. Not the way it worked . . . their ability to do their thing was denied due to the actions of those that preceded them.

If folks want to rub blood all over each other faces, have at it. But it is beyond the possibility of serious debate that doing so today and putting your handiwork on display on the Internet and social media for all to see is shortsighted. And it is not a situation of "you mind your business and I will mind mine" . . . because in this instance your actions do have a real possibility of impacting others. I am as guilt as anyone of falling into this mindset in the past but at some point we have to realize that times are changing, hunting and hunters represent a minority and rubbing the noses of the public in the sport is not going to cause them to be more accepting or understanding of the sport . . . particularly practices like "blooding". If we do not start playing the game smarter, we should not be surprised, and will largely have ourselves to blame, when the next nail is hammered into the coffin of hunting.

. . . now, heeding the advice given by my colleagues above, back to my knitting while I grow a set of cojones . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

You might want to remove that word from your lexicon in relation to hunting. The masses you speak of don't accept hunting as a sport and certainly don't like it when you get a trophy for your sport.

On a side note....have you tried counted cross stitch?

Actually you are wrong. More than 50% of adult Americans nationwide strongly or moderately support "sport" as a motivation for hunting compared to about 25% where a "trophy" is the motivation. Always best to understand the data before stating conclusions.

. . . now back to the knitting . . . knit one, purl two, knit one, purl two . . .

I'd rather have the 85% approval rating that hunting for meat enjoys.

. . . good to see you are now focused on the actual data.