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Hide your gun......in airports and definitely no pictures Never smile in a grip and "grin" hero picture Stop posting reports or pictures Be ashamed of what we do and hang your head Harvest and take......never hunt and kill The pictures of my wife being "blooded"........RSA Should I be ashamed of them? Should she? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I am not ashamed of being blooded. As I said it was an honour. Had I not been blooded I would have felt a sense of exclusion and rejection from my brother hunters. Hunting without tradition, elation, reverence, introspection and camaraderie would hold no attraction for me. I forthrightly tell anyone who enters my life or looks at it on social media that I hunt, kill and revere wild game. I refuse to bow down to the alter of political correctness or to sugar coat the end results of my sheep farming enterprise to visitors. I don't glory in the killing of game or boast of lambs killed for consumption but no-one is ever shielded from the realities of what I have done, do and will continue to do and promote. I agree, hunting is where it is today due to the activities of hunters hiding their lamps behind bushes rather than standing upright and defending, it, promoting it to those who have not experienced it and educating those who blindly criticise it without the true facts being made apparent. | |||
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I was blooded when I killed my first African animal (an Impala) and I shared the photos. I think that political correctness is being used in an attempt to silence us. We are told we can hunt as long as we don't say or do anything that could ruffle feathers. At the same time they are very vocal and doing everything they can to stop us. I am not cut out to be a spokesperson. I do stand up for hunting on the local level. At a company function when our president's wife made a comment about me shooting bambi I pointed out that the meat she was eating didn't commit suicide and then went on to have a civil dialog with her about hunting. Recently she stopped into my office to say hello and ask my opinion on Cecil. The first thing I ask anyone that says anything negative about hunting is if they are a vegan. When they ask why I let them know that if they are we can have a real discussion about the ethics of eating meat. I point out that anyone who is opposed to hunting that isn't a vegan is be a hypocrite. Any of the other types of "vegetarians" don't have a leg to stand on. I really have an issue with people who fish and oppose hunting. DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Wow I thought this was pretty basic tradition here of "first blood" ie first animal taken. Surprised it has turned into a PC cluster like everything else. My kids will enjoy the ritual thank you. My wife did in Africa White Mountains Arizona | |||
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!00 percent agree with you here amigo. Most of the hunting shows fall into this category. Embarassing
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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My older brother tried to do that to me when I got my first deer. He got his ass kicked. We laughed about it after we both healed up! I guess that states my feelings about this ritual........ | |||
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Bloodying someone's on their first kill/cutting off someone's shirt tail because they missed are the type "Rituals", that need to fade into the mist of history. From what I have observed both of those "Rituals" are nothing more than someones idea of an induction into the supposed ranks of "Real" Hunters. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Or we could let the people who enjoy those rituals do them if they like and stop trying to change everyone. Grow some balls people and enough with the we must change to make people like us. | |||
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Very common is Wisconsin...I see nothing wrong with it. If you stop doing it, you're in essence admitting its wrong..at least in their eyes. Keep backing down on every little issue with the antis and let me know what you have left in 20 years. | |||
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Like most here I started hunting in the 60's been around life long hunters my whole life and have never seen anyone do that except in videos. I don't see the point, but each to his own. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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Or how bout this revelation, we quit slathering every thing we do as sportsman, all over social media and just maybe, we could enjoy it forever??? The first rule of fight club... Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Everything that is "slathered" all over this website ends up twisted and used to make hunters look bad all the time. Check any anti hunting website you like and AR pics and quotes are all over them. So I assume you wont be participating here anymore? And they don't just stay on anti hunting websites..they distribute it around to all kinds of media | |||
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The very reason , I suggested in the past that AR become a "sign-in" to search site- anyone not logged in may not search the site , and, more importantly may no reads the site | |||
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My point is about visual images. If you think what we're currently doing is conducive to 20 more years of international hunting, by all means, carry on. THE definition of insanity. and I meant quit, not quite Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Completely agree. there are also settings on other sites that do not allow for pictures to be seen unless logged in. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I'm pretty sure you and I are agreeing with each other? Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I agree with the premise that the website should be log in only...however, many antis are members here and occasionally post. With the policy of no banning for all but the most extreme offenders. I think it's not going to work here. Saeed chooses to run it the way he sees fit and if members don't want their pics all over antis websites, then it would be best not to post them. There is really no other choice. I'm indifferent to it...I see both sides of the arguement...I tend to lean towards freedom for hunters and not hidding in the shadows like we are ashamed. As far as blooding a new hunter...well that is common practice in many places in the world, including where I'm from...I see no harm in it nor any reason to stop it. I believe the hunter and wife that brought up this subject chose to share on a hunting website..not other forms of social media..so this whole arguement is much to do about nothing. | |||
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My only disagreement would be, those that choose to post their kills all over FB and AR, have taken my choice from me, or us. Those of us that have decided upon discretion over obtuse and in your face have been marginalized and diminished in the debate, without a voice. The killing of certain species, will never gain social acceptance, no matter how good the argument is. We as international sportsman, are just too few to matter. Hell, even those who think a positive change in the White house will matter I believe are just hoping upon hope. No politician would ever listen to a national demographic of 10-15K over the shouting and protest of many many more thousands, no matter how sound the conservation model is. My point for the last few years has been to keep it "our dirty little secret" that no-one knows about. Hell, we gave then the ammunition and photographic evidence to kill our own sport. We just had to feed our insatiable ego's by posting hero shots all over the place. If anyone reading this thinks I'm the least little bit ashamed of what we do, you're not getting my point. Discretion my friends, is the only way to continue. But that horse has left the barn. Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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You have good points and a solid arguement for your case...many others see it the way you do as well. However, there is also a sizable group that is strongly convinced the opposite of your strategy is the correct path. That's why I stated I'm indifferent to the subject.. Both sides make a solid case. But when a member shares pics on a hunting website from an obviously special moment and it gets picked apart...that rubs me wrong. | |||
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Discretion is how it has survived for so long,IMO.That and not always sticking what we do in the faces of those that hate us in the hopes they will let us carry on. | |||
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I asked 2 questions........anyone care to engage? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Ted......... no neither you, nor your wife need to be ashamed. It is what it is and lots of hunters from different locals practice that tradition. What is more to the point is where it is presented and how it is done. I tend to agree with Steve's post. Besides hunting, I live on a farm and raise livestock. I can assure you that the general public are now so far removed from where their food comes from that actually seeing an animal killed in a very humane manner and processed leaves most of them feeling ill and shocked. Society wants everything sterile and clean and their hands and minds washed of any guilt. They have been socially engineered this way over the last 3 to 4 decades. They do not use logic. Their lives now are more controlled by emotion. Until hunters get that, we are doomed. You cannot undo it............ it is way too late for that. I find it very frustrating that so many hunters do not seem to understand where we are at. Steve gets it. Right, wrong, moral, science based means nothing. While hunting for meat will no doubt last for a while in many countries all over the globe, "Trophy" hunting.... there is that word again.... is under attack. NO ONE gives a shit about a few thousand Americans that hunt overseas for animals they are convinced are endangered. They will bring an end to it........... and the in your face pictures will only hasten the process. Reverse social engineering is the only fix and it takes a long time. In the meantime "discretion" is the key word. The ego thing really needs to be brought in check......... cause with many that is really what it is truly all about. They post continuously because they seek self aggrandizement and have a bad case of the "look at me". Even more so for the big breasted dollies, wearing skimpy clothing and posing beside dead lions. Honestly, what is the motivation for it? Me, me, me....... look at me. Also.......... give us a bloody forum that we have to sign into and be vetted for approval so those who want to post and discuss issues without it getting copied and pasted and used in social media against us, can do so. Otherwise forums like this are going to continue to fizzle and die because more hunters ARE going to "get it" and quit posting. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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Count me in as one........ It's just not worth it anymore "forum participation" I'm glad the NRA doesn't jam their heads in the sand or we wouldn't be having a hunting discussion in the United States of America in 2016 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Common tradition in the south to get a bit of blood from your first deer dabbed on your cheeks. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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I have to agree with Shootaway on his statement above. Purposefully antagonizing folks who ignorantly disapprove of our activity is simply poor judgement IMO! As far as the blooding of the face of a first time hunter is not my cup of tea, but I see nothing wrong with that activity, but must agree that is not something that should be shared with the antis. Tradition is fine and belongs to those who own it, however some traditions should be private. Thomas McCartney and his wife the first of my family first came into the North America from Ireland in January of 1764 at Rowan county North Carolina and bought a house, a mill and farm land on both sides of Swearing creek. Over several generations my family have migrated across the country to enter Texas in 1846. All those generations have been hunters for the most part if only to supply meat for the table, and hides for leather, but they mostly washed the blood off their hands and face after the dressing of animals, as far as I know. They were hunters and all their descendants after that were and are mostly hunters till today with my grand kids and great grand kids. As far as I know we have never had such a tradition other than to not waste anything we hunted. If we couldn't use it all we gave it to those who could. We have tried to utilize everything of an animal hunted. Of course in Africa we can't bring meat home, but that meat is certainly not wasted, and the law only allows us to bring back hides and horns that are utilized for decorations, or to make other useful items. I'm not ashamed of being a hunter, and when asked by anyone if I hunt I answer in the affirmative but I see no reason to purposely antagonize those who simply do not understand the fact that hunting quotas are a necessary thing to make sure the wild habitat is reserved for all wildlife and avoid over use of that habitat by one species to the detriment of other wild life. Hunting being the salvation of all wild life not just game animals but proper regulation is essential to their long term existence. Stopping all hunting is a death knell to all wildlife not just game animals. .....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I don't see the point, same as rubbing cake on a bride's face and such nonsense. | |||
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How can you compare it to anything if you 'don't see the point'? Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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Pussy, Noted.  Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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As I said before, I really don't get the tradition or th fascination of blooding or the first kill rituals. That being said, it doesn't offend me either, it's a different tradition, like the euro sticking a twig in the mouth and the German horn playing stuff. Not my tradition, but I am not going to scoff at it either. However, in deference to Steve and others, if you want to put the picture up, make sure you explain the tradition and what it represents, as well as making the picture as tactful as possible. Have I taken some photos in less than respectful taste? Sure. I don't put those on electronic media. I do think what some feel is appropriate changes with time...the classic holding your rifle and having your foot on the dead dangerous animal or sitting on the elephant were considered very good poses 50 years ago, but now are seen as somehow disrespectful. In any case, I don't hide what I have done, and have put my hunt reports up. I probably won't put up rhino photos, but that is more not wanting the fruits camping out than my feeling it's offensive. | |||
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Simple question, what do such rituals prove, and to whom?????? I can see the bloody face thing, with bushmen, Plains Indians etc. where such rituals were a sign of coming of age/a rite of passage from being a child to being a man. As another person stated, we USED to strap deer to the hoods of our vehicles. For some it was done to show how good a hunter they were, and in some cases the State Game Departments required it. Regardless of your opinions on the "Bloody Face" concept, how many of you want to drive down the highway and see a dead deer strapped to the hood? Anyone care to HONESTLY answer that? If folks want to continue to do the "Bloody Face" thing, go for it, just do not expect every other hunter to agree with it. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Steve, On more than one occasion I have written social media has not been our friend. We have not used it wisely. It has been way more about the kill and not about conservation. But where do we stop? I do not post on Facebook any longer and in the past posted very little if anything about hunting. I enjoy reading the hunting reports on AR and looking at the pictures for the most part. If I find something distasteful I just move on. So do we need to quit writing about hunting also? I did not post anything about my last hunt but intend to do so. It was on Andrew's place and will be conservation theme, however I will include pictures of dead animals. So should just overweight hunters quit posting pictures of canned lions? Maybe no lions, no leopards, or no elephant? If we quit posting on Facebook and You-Tube (in some ways is not a bad idea) and quit posting on AR what will be next? Should outfitters quit using dead animal photos on their websites? And Steve will you be the one to call Mark Sullivan and ask him to quit selling videos? Even I do not like his videos, I can only imagine what an anti-hunter thinks about them. At the end of the day I do not feel it is a great idea to post a video of a canned lion hunt on YouTube or Facebook. However AR is a hunting site and is meant for sharing information between hunters. | |||
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I don't "expect" others to approve of the bloody face thing, but neither do I expect my colleagues on this forum to be openly critical of our traditions. I make it a habit not to criticize shooting deer under feeders, extremely long range "hunting", hunting with suppressors, not so primitive weapons, crossbows, spears, etc, etc, etc. I do my thing and expect you to do your thing. Under the big tent of hunting we should not be critical of other folks methods unless they are clearly illegal or against the teachings of our faith. Once you deny me my method, I will join the ranks of those against yours. It is a death spiral. I just thought I would point this out to everyone. I still couldn't care less if anybody else approves of it. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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Hi Mike! Great to hear from you. Still cycling? Where do we stop? We stop when we are no longer able to travel oversea's, freely, to hunt with our own guns. Because thats the trajectory, any argument there? My point, I enjoy the pursuit, much, much more than posting photo's and talking about it on the internet. The irony is, the internet gives license, ample and free information to whom ever wants it. . . at no cost. (which is really important to my argument) You see, our opposition has a flaw, they really like to scream at the top of their lungs and legislate, as long as IT DOESN"T COST THEM ANYTHING. As far as calling out MS, nope. The opposition is far to cheap and MS is far to smart, to allow his videos to get out to the anti's for free. I'm sure MS would gladly sell them if asked, but they won't ask. Ask yourself, why don't magazines and the published word get attacked? because they aren't free. The internet is free. I believe that AR should not only be a sign on site, but it should have an annual fee. it will keep 99.999% of the dipshits off the site. Saeed could make an annual donation to conservation with the proceeds. Self fulfilling and full circle. We simply have a disagreement here. Gentleman can disagree without being disagreeable, and you are a Gentleman. The road we are traveling down right now leads to an Africa devoid of hunting and most of its wildlife. I am simply following my inner compass, a compass that tells me open, free access to our most intimate of pursuits isn't healthy or even prudent. And as far as a previous poster suggesting I am ashamed or hiding. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've written about my passion, openly and fully. The writings appear in a publication that cost money to buy. The anti's, as previously stated, won't spend their own money to satisfy their curiosity. Their devotion to being an anti, ends with their short arms. They are mostly, if not all Democrats. Democrats love to spend other peoples money and this is no different. Take care Mike, Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Butch, I have no issue's with the painting of ones face. I really don't care if people openly bath in a fresh carcass of blood and guts. Just have the common sense to not post pictures of it on FB. And as far as not being critical of all those things you listed, you just were.  Regards Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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More than once on social media I have asked the question "Who will take care of the wildlife in safari areas if hunters leave?" I have never received an answer other than being called a murderer. They will not pay for conservation and especially not get the money in the hands of people on the ground.
I like that idea, even if it was only for the "Hunting" section. A nominal amount would be all it takes. Donate the money to a worthwhile cause like SCI (just kidding). There are several operators that post here that are really attempting to do the right thing in terms of conservation that could use the help. | |||
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Steve, I was not being critical of the the things I listed. They were for reference only, because I have seen postings here critical of all of them. My point is that none of them should divide us, live and let live. It simply is not important enough to have a 2 page thread. P. S. I don't have a FB account. I have seen FB cause a lot of unnecessary grief to others. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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Just one persons observation, nothing more. The only Real/Tangible thing the members of Accurate Reloading have in common is the love of hunting/desire to hunt. The down side is, how often do All of us, regardless of whether we have ever hunted Africa or not, completely agree on or about hunting? Here we are, two pages into an "Issue" over something as meaningless as how some folks choose To or Not To celebrate a successful hunt. Why can't people simply do as they choose and not make it a dividing point? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Hi Butch The FB comment was meant in the collective, not you in particular. And the smiley face shows my intent as not confrontational.  Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I have deleted my wife's blooding pictures in South Africa from the "Wives" thread. Anyone here that doesn't approve of what we do in the field or on the WWW can......and I mean this GFY X100 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Ted, Take a breathe and relax. We will all never agree on everything. Leave your pictures on the thread. From what I remember you had a great hunt and were really happy with the experience. | |||
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