quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
Missed out on much of the debate here as was on the Africa Geographic and Blood Lions web and facebook pages setting the truth and facts straight.

Canned Lion killing is not hunting nor does it contribute to conservation - it therefore makes it un-defendable by hunters on the global arena.

Hunting is a proven tool of conservation and is guided mostly by a code of conduct and ethics which by definition excludes canned or captive lion killing. It is therefore defendable based on science and research .

Make no mistake the Blood Lions team have a far greater agenda than just closing canned lion killing and breeding - they have a goal to close all forms of hunting.

However on the platforms they use to spread their mistruths and misinformation - we are able to respond with science and facts and research and working models - this provides the balance needed for people who never had an opinion before , but who could become anti if left to the Blood Lions crew , so yes we need to seperate hunting from killing and to ensure we remain open to debate on morality and ethical issues.

Every week we will hear of new closures and bans and each week we will have to commit ourselves to working to enlighten and educate those who have been misled and misinformed , but we can only do so if we dont carry questionable baggage with us such as canned lion killing , genetic manipulated species , and a disrespect for public opinion.

For those holding on to the dogmatic approach to combating the further closure of hunting, enjoy it while you can, we cant change your thoughts and actions any more than we can the anti hunters or anti gun people, we can only carry you on in the folds of hunting, but in time through attrition those who do not move with the times will fall away.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Sir, I never said canned lion hunting should be made "illegal" - although this sounds like I am splitting hairs. I simply said it needs to be halted, which to me means that as an industry as a whole - we apply enough negative connotations to it, that just like shooting young lions - it mostly goes away all on its own. No demand, no supply - just like that!

I realize I am being optimistic - but that's how I would like to see it go. No one could possibly confuse canned lion shooting - for hunting! No way, no how, not at all.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Sir, I never said canned lion hunting should be made "illegal" - although this sounds like I am splitting hairs. I simply said it needs to be halted, which to me means that as an industry as a whole - we apply enough negative connotations to it, that just like shooting young lions - it mostly goes away all on its own. No demand, no supply - just like that!

I realize I am being optimistic - but that's how I would like to see it go. No one could possibly confuse canned lion shooting - for hunting! No way, no how, not at all.

To your point Aaron, look at what has been accomplished over the last twenty years with buffalo. There is no law that says that shooting a soft bossed bull is illegal. However, by hunters informally recognizing that hunting mature, hard bossed bulls is preferable to hunting young, albeit wide, soft bossed bulls, the standard among hunters has slowly evolved. Does that mean that no soft bossed bulls get shot, certainly not, but it means that far fewer get shot. Now a "trophy bull" to most is a broomed off, smooth, hard bossed bull regardless of the fact that it is 38" and folks look askance at a bull that may be 42" but is soft. By the community of hunters adopting a higher standard, without someone legislating that standard, and holding each other accountable to that standard, the standard has evolved. Is the same thing possible with canned lion hunting, I do not know, but it sure seems like it would be preferable for the hunting community to take the lead on eliminating the demand instead of some legislative body mandating its elimination.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Sir, I never said canned lion hunting should be made "illegal" - although this sounds like I am splitting hairs. I simply said it needs to be halted, which to me means that as an industry as a whole - we apply enough negative connotations to it, that just like shooting young lions - it mostly goes away all on its own. No demand, no supply - just like that!

I realize I am being optimistic - but that's how I would like to see it go. No one could possibly confuse canned lion shooting - for hunting! No way, no how, not at all.

To your point Aaron, look at what has been accomplished over the last twenty years with buffalo. There is no law that says that shooting a soft bossed bull is illegal. However, by hunters informally recognizing that hunting mature, hard bossed bulls is preferable to hunting young, albeit wide, soft bossed bulls, the standard among hunters has slowly evolved. Does that mean that no soft bossed bulls get shot, certainly not, but it means that far fewer get shot. Now a "trophy bull" to most is a broomed off, smooth, hard bossed bull regardless of the fact that it is 38" and folks look askance at a bull that may be 42" but is soft. By the community of hunters adopting a higher standard, without someone legislating that standard, and holding each other accountable to that standard, the standard has evolved. Is the same thing possible with canned lion hunting, I do not know, but it sure seems like it would be preferable for the hunting community to take the lead on eliminating the demand instead of some legislative body mandating its elimination.