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I once heard a pseudo-PH in Africa make the following statement: "The tip you receive at the end of the hunt depends more on how much the client thinks you are a friend, than the actual safari itself." What do the ladies and gentlemen of AR' African Hunting forum think of that? Do you agree? When you decide on how much to tip, do you tip more if you really like the guy, and think he likes you? Or does it depend more on the quality of the hunt, the effort, the trophies taken etc? (PS Note I did say "pseudo-PH" as the guy is really a pretender and a want-a-be. No offence meant to the real PHs on this forum or in Africa.) | ||
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Is the ph getting the tip or is it considered as part of the safari rate given to the ph who will then hand it over to his boss?I don't believe in tipping,it doesn't work today.When I here no tipping I am attracted and don't mind paying more. | |||
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If the hunt was awful or lousy due to the PH faulty hunting ability but he was a nice guy and I liked him, would I give him a tip, no. If the hunt was successful but the PH was grouchy or distant and made me feel like I was from Mars, would I give him a tip, no. Tipping is not automatic for me, I tend to be more impulsive in these decisions taking in the whole experience wide screen. Just so I don't come off to disagreeable, I'll say if the hunt was a wee more fruitful and the PH was a bit less friendly we would both find it more rewarding in the end. | |||
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Ha! He must know a lot more about how to charm pot-bellied middle aged men than about finding game.  I recommend that he change careers and become a stock broker. Or a gay male prostitute. | |||
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A friend gets a handshake, not a tip. If the lack of tip causes an issue in the friendship, there was no friendship to begin with. It is true that many folks bond with their PH and sometimes a true friendship arises between them. But some mistake frendliness for friendship. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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My outfitter rule of thumb, regarless of location, is if my guide is the owner of the operation, no tip. I've paid him enough. If my guide (PH) is an employee, then I tip if service and effort is warranted. Never had a problem this way. | |||
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if the hunt did well I'll give him a monetary tip, if its as a friend i'll give him a tip such as "stay out of motel rooms on dark nights" | |||
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John, Personally I tip the PH based based on how much honest effort he put out to get our game and how pleasant he was to deal with. I don't tip according to body count. Even the best efforts of a PH in a good area do not guarantee your game. I expect the PH to be friendly and helpful with both Sadie and I. I don't expect him to be my life long buddy after a couple of weeks together. He might find me a total bore and Sadie a pain so I don't expect a birthday card. Safari is a business deal plain and simple. If you do make a lasting connection with someone that's great but don't expect it. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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As long as they don't get caught being dishonest with me, don't endanger me without my consent, don't speak Afrikaans or a native language around me without providing a translation and are in control of the things they can control, I leave a tip. I tip the friendly or interesting ones more, but still tip the laconic or dull if they deliver. I don't tip owner/operators. Now I mostly hunt with guys who were fiends first and PHs second. I tip them more than they are worth, but they have trolled me a croc bait and tried to lose me in Mozabique. So, I attempt to provide financial incentive for them to keep me alive. Perry | |||
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Mark and Perry, sounds right to me. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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Not with me it doesn't. I'd say the title "pseudo-PH" fits this guy to a T. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The most important factor in figuring the amount of the tip is how the overall experience was. If the PH did his best to see that I had a good time and his did best to get me on the animals on my wishlist, which does not mean I actually took all the animals. With that being said if the PH is considered a friend, I will tip a little more than others especially this year as my PH/Friend and his wife just had thier first child so I expect I will throw in a little more for a gift for the baby. | |||
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David So does the PH you consider a friend send gifts to you, or when you have a baby or a grand-child? No offence meant, just asking. In a friendship the door opens both ways. *** The remark I commented on, was said a bit more 'mercenary' on the "friend" emphasis than "deliver a good hunt in a friendly manner." | |||
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I have no children so no gifts like that. But he does give gifts and when I had heart surgery last year he kept in touch via e-mails to see how I was doing. | |||
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Never heard of a PH handing over the tip. I know the outfitters demand the toks from the taxidermists and others, but I think the PH generally hangs on to his own tips. | |||
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shootaway, I'm a little confuse on your post also. Have you hunted where tipping has been discouraged? Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Could I be the only one who feels any tip to anyone is at my option? Or the amount I give if I give at all is not to be dictated to me by anyone. I want my PH to be friendly, speak English when around me or translate for me what he has told the tracker,skinner,etc., make an honest effort in getting me better than representative animals, keep me abreast of all events of the safari, be honest. I have no interest in a life long pal. Nor do I wish to hear about his personal life other than typical fireside converstions. | |||
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Bwanna Actually I have heard of an outfitter who used to ask for the PH's and apprentice PH's tips, then give them back what he considered an adequate tip. He pocketed the rest. Also charged for the cost of broken equipment supplied to them, even when the owner himself broke the equipment he had assigned to the staff. Takes all types! | |||
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MR Absolutely. I think a person with this attitude needs to examine which type of "professional" he is. | |||
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Mark,I have not hunted anywhere that discouraged tipping,but I would be attracted by a place that did.With tipping things are not straightforward ,clear, or fair with employees or clients. | |||
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Tipping, how much and to whom, will always be a bone of contention. Look you should be getting first rate service in the first place, not paying for anything less, unless you put forth a tip at the end of the hunt. I get tired of being inundated for "tips" from everyone from the garbage man, the newspaper man, etc. etc. and on up. . . . What happened to just doing a damn good job and not expecting anything, but being grateful if you do receive some extra? | |||
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shootaway, I can't disagree with anything you said but tipping is part of whole safari industry. ALP#4, Tipping is up to you and nobody should be telling you when or how much to tip. If a client asks me what to tip I tell them what I do but stressing that the amount of the tip is up to them and what kind of an experience they think they have been provided. The two times I felt a little pressured concerning tips I actually gave less. Unless I ask about tips on my safari I don't want to hear about it. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Mark Absolutely. As you know I am no fan of tipping in general. But unfortunately it is part of the landscape. Back to the original question, however, or as an extension of it. Why do so many clients think the PH at the end of their hunt is their best friend or a great friend? I know I have liked most of the PHs and have hunted with, and would like some of them as friends, but paying someone for a couple of weeks to be a hunting guide, when probably twenty other guys have also done the same in the single year, means they end up with lots of short-time friends! I think it has someone to do with the commaradie of a hunt. Traditionally it has been a male-bonding experience since stone age man. I think the above statement was a true "male-bonding", but more an affectation of friendship for monetary gain. I think 500grains joke statement was closer to the truth in that case! | |||
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An outfitter in Alberta,and I assume there are many like him specify an"800 dollar obligatory" tip for the guide on a 5000 dollar hunt.How can such an amount be a tip? Why don't they just say the hunt costs 5800 dollars.If the 800 is a tip what is the guides salary for the hunt 80000 dollars??? If the 800 is the guides salary then why don't they just say so? About the gay thing,in europe you get funny looks when you tip at a cafe or restaurant.On my last vacation the restaurant owner brought my tip money with him to my table when I was preparing to leave and asked,whats this for?The waiter who appeared to be gay may have been offended by my tip. | |||
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Shootaway At least using that 'price list' you know the "real" price of the hunt. I agree with you, the $800 is in reality wages for the guide. At least if its specified, you know how much the hunt is, and yes NO OTHER TIPS WHATSOEVER! | |||
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I will not tip owner operators. If the PH is the owner he don't get tipped. If the PH is the son of the owner he don't get tipped. I tip those who cook, clean and see to my personal creature comforts. Like someone else has said, it's a business deal. When I contract with someone to build them a home, I don't expect a tip just because I did a good job or did a few extras at no cost to the client. | |||
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For me, it's real simple. A PH is not my friend, he's my employee. The set up is, if he does a good job, tip him accordingly. If he does a bad job, don't tip him and tell his employers why. DC300 | |||
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Any outfit that has an obligatory tip will not get my business. DC300 | |||
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Devil I once hunted with a young lad. He was the son of the very wealthy owner and acted as our hunting guide. Poor bugger, he didn't get paid at all by Dad, so my mate gave him a nice $ tip. I gave him a Cuban cigar as he was a chain smoker during the hunt. | |||
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I must confess, too, that I don`t like the idea of tipping (at least US style) very much either (I am an American). If I like and respect a PH enough to be a friend, I`d rather give him something special like a special piece of outdoor equipment which he wants but cannot get where he is located. Giving him money somehow reduces the relationship to a purely client-provider basis. Also, I`ve noticed that in places where tipping is considered obligatory (US and Canada) PHs and staff seem to be paid hardly anything, and may end up working mainly for the tips! It seems unfair somehow if the client just doesn`t have the $$$ for big tips even if a good job was done. Lastly, in hunts with a lot of staff especially where labor is cheap as in Africa, Latin America, and Asia, it`s really hard to figure out who deserves a big tip and who doesn`t. The tip money seems so big to the locals, that everybody rushes to do stuff like carry your things and fuss over you thinking that will get them the big tip over the others. If you tip too much to the wrong person, you can also cause big problems among the staff. Tipping is now nearly unavoidable in overseas hunts. But when I can, I like to ask the outfitter how much I should tip for each person, put it in to an envelope with the person`s name on it, then give it to each person by hand so they know that no one might have taken a cut out of it before he got it. Seems to work well. | |||
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Big Kahuna, I agree on handing out the tips directly to the staff and PH with a hand shake, hug if earned, and a big asante sana. My wife and I put everyones in an envelope with their name on it( makes you work to get the spelling right). We give out tips based on how they treated us above and beyond just doing their job. Attitude and attempts to speak english count. We try Swahili and expect lots of laughter in our attempts. The final camp dinner has this as part of the good byes. We also have our videographer film this as part of our safari video. This safari my wife and the PH's wife served the top camp staff dinner as a reward for the effort they put forth. There is a pecking order/rank in camp and your PH should make you aware of it to aid you in tipping. We also included candy for everyone this year. Robert | |||
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You can't buy groceries or vehicle parts with "special gifts". DC300 | |||
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Their services should be priced to cover vehicle parts. In my business it's called overhead and it's factored into my price. As far as groceries are concerned, if he needs tips to buy them he needs to be in another business. Tips to owner operators is BS plain and simple. | |||
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Most of them own their own vehicles and maintain them out of their own pockets. DC300 | |||
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If we didn't tip we wouldn't have to argue about who, what, when and how much to who ever. Sounds good to me. | |||
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I tip mostly based on level of effort and how I felt about the hunt...not so much on success. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Hell yes, most of us Americans have far more than we need so let's keep it all and F**K all of them!! Thank God I don't have to do business with a cheap bastard like you! DC300 | |||
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DC300 I like your attitude! Let's just say F@#K them and not tip at all. | |||
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Urdubob  Midway USA sucks!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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DC300, I'll just disregard your personal attack and say this. Most people who are in business own the vehicles they use in that business and yes they have to be maintained. That being said, we all know that vehicles breakdown from time to time and must be repaired. That is why we have what is called a contingency fund, it pays for those unexpected breakdowns. When we price a job, labor, material, overhead, contigency, and profit are factored into the price we quote. Now if the PH that your so in love with is not smart enough to properly price his services, I agree and say fuck him! I'm not obligated to tip him because he is stupid. | |||
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