Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:

Having made 13 hunts to Africa, it is my opinion that either I am unlucky or naive, or more than " a few bad apples" exist. It seems to me, now, that what I consider to be normal, straightforward business dealings are the exception in Africa.

Apart from the Boet Nel issue I posted about-

I bought some rifles from a very "reputable" shop in Jo-Burg

-one was sold as an original double square bridge magnum action, with a price charged accordingly, and it turned out to be a spliced action. Ok my fault, I should have not believed their representation and taken it to an expert first..

-another rifle was sold as the "finest example of a ______ rifle in South Africa". When I got it home and took the stock off, it was completely rusted out just below the stock line. Someone had tried to repair it but the trigger assembly was so fragile it had to be discarded. Again, my fault (?) for believing this shop.

I am waiting now for nearly two years for trophies from a hunt taken with a South African PH in Namibia. The South African PH arranged the hunt through a Namibian PH, who was along the entire hunt. Just a few weeks ago, the Namibia PH says he was not paid enough for a "trophy hunt" and unless I pay $1000 more per kudu etc. he will not release my trophies. Until I contacted the Namibian PH, which was difficult to do as I could not find him, the RSA PH BS'd me time and again saying oh I don't know let me check on it, can't understand what the problem is. The Namibian PH claims he was told the hunt was a management hunt and informed my RSA PH there would be no trophy export from day 1.

I had a PH basically BS me about the size of a kudu- before the shot he said it was "really big- shoot it now", then on the ground even I could see it was small. I asked him how big and he said "low 50s". I refused to let him take my photo with the animal. He then stated if I shot another one he would only charge me $800 for this one. (?) and to please allow him to photo me for his records. When I returned home I contacted the landowner who had the "trophy" and was advised it was 47 inches. When confronted for charging me trophy fees on a non trophy kudu, and advising me to shoot an immature animal, the PH claimed :
"you stated the first night you didn't care about trophy size" ???? What? Actually, the first night I stated in front of the PH and the landowner, who recalls and backs my version, that I did not want to shoot a kudu no less than 55 inches.

So again- my fault, I should have fought the PH in the field and refused to pay $1300 for a non trophy animal. The PH also now claims he never said it was low 50s- he claims when I asked if it was low 50s, he replied "if that" and therefore I accepted the animal as a trophy...

Point is I think there are more unscrupulous people in the hunting business than I care to imagine. They tend to play up the buddy-buddy relations, sell the romantic side of the hunt, but pinch you on every opportunity.

This same PH told me he had hunted the property he sold me on for three years. I learned from the landowner the first night in camp that this was his first hunt ever on the property. He also told me the area had San trackers and was a really wild "Hemingway" experience. The trackers were Tsawana and spoke Africaans, and it was basically a farm hunt, not a "wild" experience.

ANY BS to get a booking I am afraid.

This same PH, who posts here and has a booking agent here who regularly promotes him, told me, before a hunt, that he had a new "chef" he was bringing along. It was a blond woman. She was actually a pretty crappy cook. I figured out after a few nights that there was some night visiting going on, and by the end of the hunt, it was basically a sleepover for the PH who was cheating on his living girlfriend with the "chef" who was actually a prostitute - per the PH.

It has really turned me off to hunting and I for one am sick and tired of being nickeled and dimed like an ATM from every person I come into contact with in Africa.

As to those who say "post the names" etc., I have already been told in writing by the PH in question that no one will believe my version since I have hunted with him many times. I have deleted all my supportive posts and advised thse who contacted me previously for a reference about my issues.

One of the people I PM'd wrote to me that he wanted more details, was surprised at my version of events, that he had talked to the PH on the phone and he seemed "reputable" etc. and asked me more questions to verify my version. I responded I am not the PH police, nor am I responsible for him having a good hunt, and insuring that he books with a reputable PH, therefore I was not going to engage in a long running he said- he said saga, which is basically what these complaints turn into, especially if the PH has a couple of other clients and a booking agent on AR.

In fairness, there are PHs I have met that have rave reviews on this board, and are regularly recommended that, after meeting them, I would not hunt with. My criteria is if a guy is a BSer, a drinker etc. I will not hunt with him, but some other like this, or overlook it.

We are not all the same, we are not all automatically best of friends and life long brothers, therefore, some may like a PH and others may not, based on personality and personal habits. BUT I do draw the line at dishonesty and BS. Clearly, one guy can have what he considers to be one, two or many successful hunts with a particular PH, and another hunter would nit be satisfied, or the other hunter is ripped off and doesn't know it, etc.

This accounts for a difference of opinion of PHs, and I think tendency for some not to believe negative reports of their "favorite" PH.

So, at this point, when I see PHs or booking agents posting here on AR, my first reaction is you are all full of BS until proven otherwise - overselling and under producing. I will continue to hunt but I am sure I will be a less pleasant, more demanding client than I previously have been.

Like Steve Mc[B]Queen[/B]
All I need's a fast machine...

Chris Troskie's reply:
Comments have been made on this forum regarding clts being nickled and dimed by PH's - amongst other aimed at "a PH who posts on AR"... As I am the PH who is being referred to and as the poster have already contacted several individuals via pvt messaging and pvt email spreading untruths about me I feel that it is apt for me to publicly state my side of the story...

How long would it take the average man to come to the conclusion that a PH is lazy, mediocre and dishonest? Would he hunt with him once, twice or three times. How about 3 or 4 times...or more??? My thinking is that these qualities in a PH are likely to manifest itself and come out in the open rather quickly and definitely not only after the 8th hunt... In this post I am not going to respond to each and every allegation 404 made against me as his posts is so interspersed with BS that I'm not even going to take the time to deal with it.

That PH's have to put up with clts' habits, likes and dislikes and sometimes even their insults is a fact. It is after all part of their jobs to keep clts happy... But when clts start acting like they "own" PH's and feel it is their right to threaten them and insult them and their family members the dynamics change and I will have nothing to do with them...

I will not stoop to 404's level by sharing my personal opinions about him behind his back hence my reason for coming out on a public forum and stating my case. Having said that; "coming out" might have a different meaning to a man whose first stop after arriving at the airport is the local pharmacy so that he can stock up on makeup (eyeliner, mascara etc.) - not for his wife back home - but indeed for himself...And his 2nd stop is the gunshop so that he can buy himself new rifles, new clothes and other parephernalia for the hunt etc...

Fact of the matter is this:

404 booked his 1st 10 day hunt with me in Jan '06 on a week's notice... He obviously must have been quite satisfied with the outcome of the hunt as he booked another hunt in January and subsequently returned 6 more times over the next year and a half. He even wrote excellent testemonials to prospective clients and reported on AR about his "excellent hunts" with me. (These reports have since been deleted from the Hunting report section by 404 but I do still have a testimonial written to another prospective client on file)

404 felt so “comfortable†with me that he even asked me to store the goods picked up from the pharmacy for him to prevent his wife from finding it in his luggage when he gets back home.

The only real problem here is that he does not like women much... especially woman that are associated to me... It is indeed true that I had a brief relationship with my cook (also referred to as a prostitute in his post)... Was that really so wrong??? I was unmarried at the time and whatever "night visiting" was going on after hours never affected the quality of his hunt. Had that been the case - surely he would not have booked another 3 hunts with me later that same year - even bringing his 14 year old son with on one of them!!! For heavens sake; a client books me to hunt with him/her during daytime and surely whatever I do once he has gone to sleep is my business... Anyway; to me it seems a bit like double standards when a guy like 404 (who is married BTW) loves to frequent titty bars but objects to me having a relationship with a woman. I honestly do not need his or anyone else's permission or approval to get involved in relationships – whether that be with cooks, prostitutes or whoever.

It is interesting how he promotes the Tuli area I hunt on in one post and in another refers to it as a "farm hunt". How on earth anyone can refer to 30,000 acres of land with a tented camp and no electricity as a "farm hunt" only he will know! But I guess he can call himself a veteran with 13 safaris under his belt in the 3 years he has been hunting so he'll know what a farm hunt is... After all; he has a WIDE EXPERIENCE... limited to 2 Namibian hunts (one of which were botched in the Boet Nel saga), one in Tuli Botswana (also botched according to him) and the rest all “farm hunts†in South Africa... Would be interesting to know how many times exactly he has hunted the “real†Africa i.e. Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Mozambique etc... I for one know that he pulled out (again with only 3 weeks notice) of a Mozambican hunt...

It is also interesting to note that In the emails 404 sent me after his Botswana hunt; 90% of the text comprised of personal insults against me and my wife and the remaining 10 % to his dissatisfaction with the hunt. As for him refusing to pose for a picture with his kudu - that is utter nonsense.and devoid of all truth. 404 did not sign my standard indemnity form authorising me to use pictures taken of him during the hunt for promotional purposes and I can therefore not post the pictures here but I would gladly email these pictures to anyone interested so that they can decide for themselves whether the smile on his face was forced or not... Reality is that 55" kudu are not found behind every tree and that, if one were to search for such an animal, one would need a lot more time for it than the 5 and a half hunting days we had at our disposal (again a hunt that was booked on about 6 days notice). 404 NEVER told me that a 55" kudu was his minimum. What he did tell me was that he was there to enjoy the wild experience and not to look for trophies.

Maybe 404 should "come out" and explain why he opted to hunt with me 8 times in two and a half years... Because he "liked" me or because I was the only PH stupid enough to put up with his tantrums, short notice bookings and equally short notice hunt cancellations???

Maybe he should "come out" and tell everyone how he had booked a hunt with me at Thabana Lodge for June '06 which he cancelled on a week's notice because "his wife didn't want to come"... And how he then called me up a week later from a hotel in Windhoek asking me to fly up there and show him and his wife around because he had a bad experience with Boet Nel...

Or maybe he wants to tell other members how he emailed me and asked me to come up for him on AR so that everyone won't think he's an asshole...

Maybe he should also "come out" and tell members that this "terrible" Botswana hunt was supposed to have taken place last year November already and that he advised me the day before his and his son's arrival that he's not coming anymore because his son is homesick... That I bent over backwards and arranged a replacement hunt for him in spite of the fact that my contract clearly stipulateed I was not obligated to...

And after all this he's probably now going to get "really nasty" as he promised to do and he's going to tell you even more lies about me, (quoted from one of his last emails: “BTW how are the bookings on AR going…??? Ha, Ha, Ha…)

Gentlemen & ladies; I have no intention of using AR to discuss a personal issue between a client (who does not know what he wants from life) and myself. I am also not making this post so that you out there can judge me or determine who is right and who is wrong. I’d be happy to provide anyone interested with contact details of all the 6 US clients who hunted with me between the time that 404 finished his Botswana hunt and now... In fact: I am presently hunting with my 7th clt since his last hunt this year and I’d also gladly share his details with you... Every single one of these clients were/are extremely satisfied with the experience my wife and I offered them and EVERYONE was complimentary about my wife – so much so that all of them indicated they’d like to come back and bring their wives along to meet her… In fact; at least one of them is presently talking about dates for next year’s hunt... with his wife... And the client who is hunting with me at present just gave her $1,000’s crossbow equipment as a present… I find it strange that ONLY 404 developed a "problem" with her... to the extent that he believes it is within his rights to badmouth and insult her… Interestingly enough he never had the guts to confront me face to face during or directly after the hunt, but waited for 5 days after his return to the US and then did so via email… Where I come from; MEN talk to other men directly when there is an issue to discuss... and not from behind their desktops... or via private messaging on an internet forum…

A client is a client and in an ideal world a clt is always right. EXCEPT when they insult my wife and make derogatory remarks about where and how I live. Remarks such as: “that woman you decided to marryâ€, "I cannot think of a more bizarre person to call a wife" etc... (as written by him to me via email) and calling the house that we are still building up a "hovel" does not sit well with me and I'm sure that most everyone who do care for their wives will take exception to such statements as this is no act of a gentleman!

The way I see things is that, upon meeting my lovely wife, 404 finally realised that he did not "own" me... And now he is going out of his way to destroy my reputation on AR in an underhanded and childish way... I sincerely hope that the real gentlemen out there will see through this "man"'s motives...

Familiarity seems to breed contempt...

quote:

404 felt so “comfortable†with me that he even asked me to store his mascara, eyeliner and other makeup for him to prevent his wife from finding it in his luggage when he gets back home.

I just about spit Mountain Dew out my nose!

I don't know, and think I like it that way.

This thread is worthless without pics.

How does the eyeliner etc. hold up in the heat of africa, chasing a kudu?

Fahrfugnugen!

I would be happy to hunt with Chris. Several of my friends are pleased after hunting with him on their first safaris. One of these days Chris...and remember about the fishing invite up here.

Chris,

Are you joking or what?? Make-up??

This thread is going to be a real

quote:

Originally posted by farktoof:
This thread is worthless without pics.

How does the eyeliner etc. hold up in the heat of africa, chasing a kudu?

I was wondering the same thing, actually...

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

404 felt so “comfortable†with me that he even asked me to store his mascara, eyeliner and other makeup for him to prevent his wife from finding it in his luggage when he gets back home.

I just about spit Mountain Dew out my nose!

+1!

This should get interesting fast! Sounds like another potential matter for the infamous Doug Chester, Esquire!!

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

404 felt so “comfortable†with me that he even asked me to store his mascara, eyeliner and other makeup for him to prevent his wife from finding it in his luggage when he gets back home.

I just about spit Mountain Dew out my nose!

I've got to hear the rest of this story!

Chris,

I can certainly understand your anger and frustration here. Most of us who have been around always know there are two sides to every story, and tend to hold off on forming a conclusion until all the facts are in. Unfortunately, there are people that are off to the races on hearing one person's version of events. Believe me, I have been on the receiving side of that situation myself, and it is frustrating when you know folks are out there maligning you and spreading rumors faster than gossip in s sewing circle.

And there is no quicker way to insult another man than to go after his wife.

With regard to 404's posts, it was very apparent that something was missing and they begged for more information. No one is that unlucky to have it rain on every parade.

Not trying to be critical here, and your information is certainly great tabloid reading. But, with that said, you may want to think about reposting this thread without the closet queen information. You rightly defended yourself here, but you could have accomplished that goal without conveying information that, at least on this board, is sure to not just impugn 404's credibility (which was richly deserved), but to destroy his reputation entirely. For a group of guy who are avid hunters and conservationists, the prospect of sharing a tent with RU Paul is not exactly a comforting thought.

Just give it some thought. I by no means harbor any sympathy for 404 getting his comeuppance. Frankly, a response addressing his misinformation was due and warranted. I'm just not sure what the whole makeup thing adds to your argument other than the "holy shit" and entertainment factors.

And no, I don't wear makeup. I kind of figured some smartass out there was going to ask whether I had some other motive for making this post. I just hate to see someone's life ruined by a bad hunt report. Respond in kind, but save the nukes for when you really need them. And to all the world, you will be the better man.

Just an FYI:

Most of the men who like to wear women's clothes and/or makeup are actually heterosexual. I remember one of my psych attendings telling the story of how he had to testify as such so that a Colonel wasn't dishonorably discharged after being caught wearing a bra and garter belt.

I'm not saying it's not queer, just saying it's not QUEER.

Okay back to the

Chris,
Sounds like he has a "bone" to pick with you!

This kind of thing should not be tolerated here or anywhere.

Saeed, you would be doing us all a great favor if you would kindly delete this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
This kind of thing should not be tolerated here or anywhere.

Saeed, you would be doing us all a great favor if you would kindly delete this thread.

No way mate!

I would like to get to the bottom of this

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:

Having said that; "coming out" might have a different meaning to a man whose first stop after arriving at the airport is the local beauty shop so that he can stock up on makeup (eyeliner, mascara etc.) - not for his wife back home - but indeed for himself...


...

404 felt so “comfortable†with me that he even asked me to store his mascara, eyeliner and other makeup for him to prevent his wife from finding it in his luggage when he gets back home.

This one is a pretty tough sell.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
This kind of thing should not be tolerated here or anywhere.

Saeed, you would be doing us all a great favor if you would kindly delete this thread.

No way mate!

I would like to get to the bottom of this

Saeed, my point is that with this kind of thing, there is no bottom.

But it's your circus and you are certainly entitled to be the ringmaster.

My suggestions come from the cheap seats in the peanut gallery.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:
I will not stoop to 404's level by sharing my personal opinions about him behind his back hence my reason for "coming out" on a public forum and stating my case. Having said that; "coming out" might have a different meaning to a man whose first stop after arriving at the airport is the local beauty shop so that he can stock up on makeup (eyeliner, mascara etc.) - not for his wife back home - but indeed for himself...And his 2nd stop is the gunshop so that he can buy himself new rifles, new clothes and other parephernalia for the hunt etc...
404 felt so “comfortable†with me that he even asked me to store his mascara, eyeliner and other makeup for him to prevent his wife from finding it in his luggage when he gets back home.

That is pretty f&@$ed up right there. Not that you posted it...That was funny as hell...Just that he actually had the "insert whatever here" (certainly not balls, nope that would just be plain wrong) to ask you to do that. Well maybe not wrong in everybody's eyes...

Chris,
Nothing I have seen posted on this forum would stop me from booking a hunt with you...
Best of luck to you with your future hunting adventures and may you have much better luck with the caliber of clients who comes to partake in such...
Brian

John

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
This kind of thing should not be tolerated here or anywhere.

Saeed, you would be doing us all a great favor if you would kindly delete this thread.

No way mate!

I would like to get to the bottom of this

Saeed, my point is that with this kind of thing, there is no bottom.

But it's your circus and you are certainly entitled to be the ringmaster.

My suggestions come from the cheap seats in the peanut gallery.

I am hoping that by letting this ride, we might be able to stop at least SOME of the stupid things some so called "clients" and so called "PH" of doing the same thing and hoping no one would know about it.

uninvited comments about a mans wife, guns, house, car, dog, horse etc. is the quickest way to get a smart jap in the face.

it shows poor class, to jugde others by your own uninformed standards.

the make-up thing is not something that i care about in any way shape or form.

but tasteless hasing of a proffesionel, by going after his reputation and family is degrading in a very big way.

i dont know you chris, we might hunt together at one point or another, and then i will make up my own mind about you as a prof. untill then the badmouthing of you wont make a difference to me.

best regards

peter

i gotta save this thread I think I can sell it to a TV station as a daytime soap It should make millions

This has all the makings of a great thread. I will have to send a link to PETA.
Peter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDDHcN75HnU

Saeed, How about a soap opera forum where AR members can reveal juicy tidbits about each other.

Sounds like .404J and the late John "Pondoro" Taylor would have liked to share a camp!

Imagine the following scene....
404j arrives in camp "John, you look MARVELOUS, have you lost weight?"

Pondoro," No, it's just my new designer loin cloth and matching pith helmet ensamble from the SHE SAFARI collection."

404J, "Anyway, I picked up the new Cover Girl savanna and jess complete cosmetic collection while in town. I hope you like it."

Pondoro, "Damn it Laddie! I told you that only the Avon Deep Veldt Collection has the right patina for my complexion with the added benefit of tsetse fly protection!"

404J (holding back tears), "Well maybe the camp boys will like it."

Pondoro, "I am sorry I hurt your feelings. But if I have told you once, I have told you a thousand times, only Avon has the Sectional Density to hold up to the rigors of the bush by day and the camp by night."

Pondoro, "Just remember my teachings. A good solid foundation applied with moderate but adequate speed will deliver the knock out impression you want to make in the bush or in the camp. Wait a second.....That's it! I will call it "Taylor's Knock Out Value!" An intricate combination of rouge, mascara, eye liner and application techniques that all can use and appreciate!"

And thus, a legend is born.....


RCG

This is all just plain wrong.

Bloody funny though!

Sorry I cannot stop laughing or turn away from the computer. Can't wait to see where this one goes. People usually pay good money to read a story like this.

make-up??

holly shit--I swear to God that I will never wear camo on my face again when archary hunting!!!

I suppose it is bad timing asking for pictures?!

quote:

I would like to get to the bottom of this

As Saeed said. Just when you thought you had heard it all on AR....
Peter.

Well, we have to have an official name for this...

As the Safari Turns??

Days of Our Hunt??

Desperate Hunters??

This has got to be one of the more interesting threads on AR. What is the old saying about a woman scorned?

quote:

As the Safari Turns??

Days of Our Hunt??

Desperate Hunters??

The bold and big-bore...

I see now why folks get addicted to soap-operas, this is entertianing and quite unfortunate

JohnHunt,
I dunno about you, but I'd confess immediately to hauling hookers around...

The Hung and the Restless?