You poor, pitiful hunter/hunt arranger. You would think that after 6 hunts together you could get along. I do not recall reading where one of you put a gun to the other's head and demanded a hunt or whatever.

GROW UP BOTH OF YOU. AIR YOUR PROBLEMS TO SOMEONE WHO CARES BECAUSE WE DO NOT...

I can see the new hunts offering with the following exclusions.

Does not include in all the above prices (for each hunter) :
- International flights, insurances and visa
- Alcoholic beverages
- Gratuities for staff (300 to 400 USD a week)
- Hotel, restaurant and taxi before and after the safari.
- Transport of trophies from Dar es Salaam to final destination.
-makeup (eyeliner, mascara etc.)

I think Dan has a photo for every occasion (and that one is a little disturbing). He secretly works for Hallmark cards.

..............................

Like I said, there are some "clients" I will refuse to hunt with on this forum...........

THAT THAR IS FUNNY!!!!!

There should an admission charge for this thread. The only thing that keeps it from being perfect is the lack of PICTURES!!!!!!

Somebody sucks.

Chris,

I have really enjoyed your posts in the past - especially that proud daughter who shot the 52" kudu. Thats as real as it gets. The information you pass on is always interesting and informative.

What I am puzzeled about in this instance is your (apparently) smearing the client (why do you always abbreviate him as clt?) with "coming out" etc. rather than just taking on his points directly? That seems to me to be below the level of professionalism that I think you have.

Why not just answer directly his accusations that you BS'ed him about the size of the kudu or he had to pay $1,000 more to get the trophy shipped to him - etc.?

Have I missed something here?

My prediction... This won't end pretty for anyone involved.


But it will be entertaining to watch.

This reminds me of the old saw about the fellow who observed his friend struggling into a girdle after their round of golf and asked when he started wearing a girdle? Ans: When my wife found it in the glove box of my car. Kudude

some people are just not made for hunting if i have a bad hunt every hunt ill start fishing and stop hunting

"The Stung and The Breastless"
What a load of CRAP..... enough already

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 375 fanatic:
some people are just not made for hunting if i have a bad hunt every hunt ill start fishing and stop hunting[/QUOT]

With a fishing buddy like Sam, wonder why you bother with hunting at all? Must be something about a preference for male company!

In good hunting.

Andrew.

quote:

Or maybe he wants to tell other members how he emailed me and asked me to come up for him on AR so that everyone won't think he's an asshole...

Other than the cosmetics, this struck me as hilarious somehow.


Now, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Or the other spike heel, perhaps.

quote:

Originally posted by SDHall:
The Hung and the Restless?

How about...Hunting Restless.....?

Chris ek dink dit was befok

Where is 404 on these allegations???

or is he e-mailing chris in secret

Chris please make public all e-mails between parties, same 404. Would be much appreciated

Sort of like what Kudude said,,,, the two Texas cowboys were saddling their horses and Hank asked Tex when he started wearing an ear ring,,, Tex said when my wife found it in my truck,,,,, so Mascara,,, so what,,,,

The Nnnnn has really fallen off the

FU N

in this topic now.....

I thought I'd seen everything on the hunting forums of the internet, but this one takes the cake!

Brokeback Africa???????????

Just to put the record straight...

This man threatened me, he insulted me, he insulted my wife and he made insults with regards to where and how I live. People can insult me all they want and if they don't like where and how I live that is fine too. But NO ONE has the right to make insults as far as my wife or family is concerned. Incidentally; EVERYONE else who has met my wife and seen where I live was extremely complimentary about both...

By bringing "personal" matters into my post I was merely trying to bring the message across that 404's issue with me does not relate to my ability to provide a quality hunt. Had that been the case surely he would not have had the confidence to book EIGHT hunts with me and even bring his family members with on some of them...

Nobody on this forum knows who or what "404"'s real identity is... and I did not nor do I now intend to reveal this... But HE chose to write to several AR members and other prospective clients privately (thus without giving me the opportunity to defend myself) and bad-mouthed me and my outfit (whose identity is NOT secret) based on an issue of personal nature - in an attempt to harm my reputation. Where I come from real MEN talk directly to other men and discuss issues in an adult manner... They don't do so via email after the fact and then write BS to other people.

In terms of answering directly to 404's several allegations... It makes no sense for me to respond to these allegations over here. What would an appropriate response be? "No, I did not tell him the kudu was lower fifties"?... How can it be proven who is right and who is wrong?... My only response can be that there are several other very satisfied clients who did / do not have a problem with me or the trophies I managed to guide them to...(like the 4 clients who hunted with me directly after 404 and all went home smiling or the 2 clients I had after them who successfully hunted 16 species of SA game animals over 10 days all of which scored high in SCI and many of them even qualified for Rowland Ward). In fact; I'm sure the bowhunter I am guiding at present would be happy to tell everyone interested about the 37" Eland he hunted with me this morning...

This is pretty much all I have to say on this issue.

Thank you to those who expressed faith in me - publicly, via pvt email and telephone in spite of all of this.

The PH's are not always the bad guys...

Boet Nel part II

now starring Chris Troskie


Why am I not suprised?

This situation is screwy.

Chris it sounds like you have a quality operation. Can I recomend a pair of these for when you get the odd ball client.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
This situation is screwy.

Chris it sounds like you have a quality operation. Can I recomend a pair of these for when you get the odd ball client.

You might consider wearing it backwards

Saeed wants to "get to the bottom of this." Poor choice of words, my friend.......

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
This situation is screwy.

Chris it sounds like you have a quality operation. Can I recomend a pair of these for when you get the odd ball client.

I'm GLAD I have no idea what the hell THAT thing is!

Chastity belt, but I suppose he also has a "stopping rifle"

I have to support Chris on this matter.

404 booked a hunt with me about a year ago when Chris could not accomodate him.It was also a very short notice period and I had to work my butt off to get everything organised. Being nice I did not let him sign the contract untill I pick him up and I did not ask him to transfer the full day fees to me.

I was on my way to pick him up at the guest house where he stayed, when I received a call from him to cancel the hunt. He eventually paid me half the day fees. His excuse was that he could not finish his bussiness deals. Guess how surprised I was when I later found out that he in fact did go on a hunt.

People like 404 gives foreighn hunters a very bad name. We as outfitters does not always know who we are dealing with. We must trust prospective hunters and we sometimes carry huge losses because we trusted people wha are BS.

Thank heavens 404 was the only bad experience I ever had with a client.

Thanks to all the honest hunters out there, we as outfitters/ph's do appreciate your sincerity

If poor PH's get their names published, same should go for chickensh*t hunters...

i do believe i can syndicate this soap

I have just seen this thread and will respond.

I am presently in Botswana hunting a PAC ele but they have not come back out of the tribal lands onto farms as yet.

Where to begin?

I do think the claim that I

-stopped at the pharmacy to buy eyeliner and makeup is pretty desperate. I have not, nor will I ever, buy make up. Pretty sordid Troskie, though it did provide a lot of entertainment for others, apparently. Just an out and out fabrication ie a lie.

BTW I don't see any claim that I used "mascara" on a hunt- and what the hell does one do with make up on a hunt---and why buy it- if one uses it, bring it...etc. Like most BS, any examination of it and it fails on its own merits as being truthful.

The only thing I asked Troskie to "store" for me was ammo, boots and toiletries ie and limited to normal items- shampoo, deodorant etc. I have posted before that I like to check only my rifle case and carry on everything else- hence the need not to check a bag with liquids that the TSA forbids.

As to hiding things from my wife...? What was I doing with whatever he alleges on a hunt that I would hide from my wife? He wants readers to believe I use mascara but only on hunts, I don’t want to carry it home? Why not just throw it away? Bizarre.

Also internally inconsistent, that I like to visit “titty bars†but I “don’t like women� As I recall, we visited a “titty bar†twice, at his request, when he was a guest in my home in San Diego, after I paid for his ticket to come out from the east coast, as he said he was short of funds, and he fell in love with a young Latina and got several dances with her…..And? He can do what he wants, I suppose….

Hmmm. The issue about the cook/prostitute came up because it was on our last hunt that Troskie told me she was a working prostitute, that he had a lot of “fun†with her, and that some rich guy bought her a malt shop in EllisRas (sp?) blah blah…I was pretty shocked that he would bring a prostitute on a hunt, then have me meet his girlfriend, live in, Zenna, for lunch and ask me not to mention Charmaine as Zenna would be unjustifiably jealous. I consider this low behavior, and Troskie apparently thinks it is fine, with a live in girlfriend, and I am the one who is not a gentleman or a “man�


Yes, I do like to buy rare or interesting rifles, and did so in Africa. And to buy stuff i.e. hunting clothes that are not available in the US.....so what?

Let me say now about not “confronting him†about my concerns- I was dependent on him for transportation from his residence to the airport, and would not put it past him to refuse to transport me. He often told me of his buddy Piet who, when he felt slighted by a client, instead drove the client to a black township and unloaded his baggage and told him he was on his own…I did not want him to pull I this with me.


My statements to him, in a private email, which he now wants to publicly air about his wife stem from the fact that I specifically wrote him and asked that she not come. It was not until she climbed into the back of the truck as we were leaving that I was aware she was going, and I just let it pass. He did point out a reference to her cooking one night in an earlier email, but I missed this, but there is no issue that I wrote that she not come and he wrote back that she would not.

I do think his wife is a bit odd, and..so what? Please don’t put me in the position to like or dislike your wife, on a hunt that I am paying for-thank you. I did not going on the hunt to spend time with “the Troskies†am I ? I went to hunt, and if I think my hunt was diminished by the presence of your wife, your dinner table arguments, her odd conversation, then isn’t that my right and my prerogative as paying client?

BTW I do not consider the Tuli hunt a disaster, just Troskie’s ruining of it, and, as stated, I am presently sitting on the same farm now hunting.

I did not nor did I intend to name Troskie on the board- I am not the PH police. I did write about some issues I had with bad hunts, because at the time I was particularly steamed about, in my opinion, not being treated fairly.

I did write to some individuals upon my return, because Troskie had provided my name as a reference for them and in one case, specifically recommending the Tuli block hunt. For some odd reason Troskie cc'd me on a "sales" email for the client. The email contained some exaggerations and out and out falsehoods.

I am using the landowner’s computer and cannot easily access the email, but will post it in its entirety when I return. In particular, Troskie wrote that he had been hunting the Tuli property for three years, when I in fact was the first person he had guided or hunted the proty with. Period- absolute lie in furtherance of a booking.

I wrote to another board member because Troskie told me the AR person was thinking of bringing his wife and family to hunt on Troskie’s “ranch’ and since I liked this board member, I reported exactly what I saw. Readers can be the judge- Troskie lives on a parcel that is 210 acres. Period- and a fact. It is, to my observation, surrounded by other such small parcels. With all the fences, cattle and people around, I don’t know how he can offer hunts on such a small parcel, especially since it is bisected by a well traveled road. Troskie, can you respond and/or refute this? I think you intend to drive your clients from your place to others in the area, which is fine, but from what I have seen as your promotion of it, I think it is inaccurate.

The issue about the Tuli being a farm hunt: Well, I am here now, so I can tell you…it is a farm. But go to Troskie’s site and I recall he describes it “as close to being in Tanzania†etc. It is a fine hunt…here I am again…but it is a farm…albeit a big one!

He sold it to me saying it was a Hemingway type experience with San trackers…I don’t think there is a San tracker for 100 miles of here….

Yes, I did hunt with Troskie a lot, though of the 8 3-4 were hunts lasting 3-4 days and were tacked on to business trips to RSA. I considered him a warm friend, and I think turned a blind eye, and sort of kept buying his explanations of things, until it sort of reached the breaking point and I caught him in several out and out lies.

This basically occurred on our last hunt, and they are:

First, Charmaine the hooker.

Second, I asked him AGAIN on this last hunt where my 2 kudu and 2 gemsbok trophies were from our hunt a year and a hlf ago in Namibia? He stated he needed to follow up with the Namibian PH. I found this PH’s email upon my return, and he wrote me that Troskie told him it was a “management†hunt and that I did not want the trophies, and further that I Troskie did not pay the Namibian PH enough money for a trophy hunt. All of this was news to me, despite over a year of inquiries. I received several emails from the Namibian PH that were not consistent with what Troskie told me and to the effect that the Nakbian PH would never have anything to do with Troskie again. So where are my trophies Troskie- it has been a year and a hlf. PLEASE RESPOND HERE as you brought this to the board- and no “make up†excuses please.

The Namibian PH will not release my trophies. Yet Troskie uses this hunt on his marketing DVD. And if I was such an oddball, why is Trokie’s site basically covered with me and my animals. I should total up what I have spent with him, but I think it is well north of $100,000-

Third- the BS about the kudu I shot and its size. He sort of sheepishly offered to let me shoot a “bigger†one and he would only charge me $800 for the first one. Why not step up and say he made a mistake in judging its size. After this incident the next few days until the end of the hunt were the bare minimum of communication and me leaving after the last bite of dinner, unless the landowner was with us, whose company I enjoyed. I did specify 55 or better on a kudu. BTW yesterday, I chose one myself and got him ….54 ½….

Fourth- I did book a hunt with him for my son and I. We first hunted on a cull hunt in Limpopo with another PH, and my son was ill in bed for parts of every day of the hunt, hunting very little and very ill. He was not homesick, he was ill. I went on my last hunt alone with Troskie because he said he would not refund any of the approximately $6500 deposit I paid him, but that I could apply it toward a future hunt. I did so begrudgingly. I thought this was unreasonable and asked other PHs who told me they in similar circumstances, would have been more accommodation. So He had daily rates of $700 per day from me for 7 days, plus permits etc. He then insisted on charging me an additional $75 per day booking fee for the re-book, including 4 rifle permits at $150 per permit, which he apologized for and said he was out of pocket this amount. I learned while I was on the Tuli hunt that the permits only cost $50- and I was pissed that I was, in my opinion, being nickeled and dimed.

Troskie states that he bent over backwards to book me a replacement hunt- was he doing me a favor—or was he doing it to earn his living?

Regarding other issues:

Yes, we did talk to him about a hunt at Thabana and he did reserve the property, and yes, my wife did back out at the last minute. And yes, two weeks later she decided she wanted to go to Africa. Of course, I was thrilled that she wanted to go. At this time I received the follow up email from Boet Nel saying he now had availability, so we went to Namibia. I did call Troskie while we were in the hotel for two days explaining it all and said it was too bad our original plans fell through- because I considered him a friend and kept him posted on our doings.

Troskie threw out a lot of vitriol about the insults to his wife and that a “gentleman†wouldn’t do such a thing, etc. My comments to him, and him alone, about his wife were in my intention, to state to him why I considered the last hunt with him a complete bust.

I do think it is very odd of Troskie to bring this to the board- as I said, I am not the PH police, but when he cc’d me as reference on the very hunt I was on, I will reply to that person, and I will share my opinions on his abilities to those I consider friends on AR.

I do not use AR to promote my business or to book hunts, I am a consumer of hunting products, and have spent several hundred thousand dollars on hunting in Africa, so it is a free world, other AR posters can form their opinions, on this thread, on a few of the in home meetings some have had with me, on the several firearms I have sold without issue etc. I suppose PHs are free to not take my booking as well, it is a free world.

Jaco, as you may recall, I did book the hunt with you with a proviso that I also had business to attend to, and the day after my arrival, and upon cancellation, I gave you carte blanche to name a cancellation fee, which I paid promptly. Upon the conclusion of my business I did hunt 2-3 days with another PH, but this was days after we had cancelled and I had paid your cancellation fee. I do not think you should champion Troskie as he has MF'd you to me time and again for stealing clients, being a piss poor PH on the hunt he hired you for and for exceesive drinking.

Did you in fact later hunt with client's from the lever gunner hunt including some guy from England? And weren't all those earlier Troskie threads about other PHs stealing clients and drinking in fact directed at you? I do not for the record thik they are jsutified- jsut passing on what the man you are defending stated to me about you.


Troskie, if these cheap shots are the best you got, you have lost. I can say sincerely that I was really bothered by the loss of someone I considered a friend and with whom I was incredibly generous with tips, including one trip a large caliber rifle. I am not pissed off at myself for being so blinded by friendship that overlooked things and pissed at being lied to and taken advantage of.

I think both of you need to be in "time out" like other children who cannot get along...

He said - she said - his wife said - blah blah blah...

What a pathetic display...

quote:

I am using the landowner’s computer and cannot easily access the email, but will post it in its entirety when I return.

Please don't

Personally this sounds like a rich, spoiled tantrum.
I have had dealings with such in my own past, and the smell is the same here in this case.
Now this other PH is just conveniently getting his facts a little off????????
And he should be so happy for getting his cancellation fee which if normal barely covers his out of pocket, and not a bit of his time and effort.
Not to mention the lsot biz that a person turns away counting upon someone honoring their word to show up..
I just have one question, did you give a damn enough about what you had just done to even offer to this PH the opportunity to recoup something by rebooking a few days later?
It appears that you simply booked another hunt with someone else.
That is sorry, low class, and chickenshit in my book.

Too much like a soap opera for me.

I prefer game shows.

I will have to reconsider the comments I made on the Boet Nel thread. Admittedly, looking at it from the outside, I was inclined to side with the Hunter instead of the PH on that thread.

But now we have a hunter that has issues with three (seemingly) reputable PH's. (I'm including Jaco - sorry!) There does seem to be some sort of trend developing, and as I recall this started with 404 basically cataloging a list of hunts which he consdiered mostly "dissatisfactory". Nobody is perfect, but if EVERYONE else is the problem, it may be time for some introspection.

Bill

I re-read Troskie's original post and would like to add:

Up until a few weeks ago I was his #1 go to reference for all his prospective hunters, so can I really be that bad?

I would like to publically ask that in light of all this nonsense that Troskie remove all photos me myself and my family members from his website, which he uses in advertising. If he is such a man of principal, why should he want me all over his site?

TROSKIE- will you do this?

As recently as the day before I left on the Tuli hunt he cc'd me on an email he sent to another AR member trying to sell the same hunt.

I certainly did not go behind his back or refuse to confront him "like a man".

He was well aware of my issue with the kudu, and at bill settlement time when I protested the trophy fee, he "knocked off" $100. I know everyone makes mistakes, but I really resented that he was not honest with me about the size of the trophy.

He was aware of my concerns, so much so that before I wrote to the AR member who he used me as a referral to try and sell a hunt and to the AR member who was considering taking his family, each of these people wrote back and said Yes, Troskie contacted me already and said that you(404) may be contacting me, and all Troskie asks is a chance to present his side of things.

No going behind backs.

BTW I did not ask him to list me as a reference or to use me as a reference for his next Tuli hunt.

BUT in this email which he cc'd me, he wrote to the prospective client that he, Troskie, had been hunting the Tuli area for three years for another outfitter, and now he had rights to it on his own.

This is an out and out lie. I was the first hunter he guided in Tuli, but I suppose, anything to sell a hunt.

I must admit it is unpleasant to read the posts of other members.

I think I was a good client for Troskie, and despite all the stuff he threw out, there was not a mention of me not paying every bill promptly and in full as presented, no mention of me having outlandish expectations of trophy size, being a poor hunter, etc. He came up with all this stuff to balance out what I wrote to TWO people, one who I consider a friend from AR in that I read and appreaciate his sincerety and contributions, and the other WAS SOMEONE TROSKIE PUT ME DOWN AS A REFERENCE FOR...should I lie to cover up for Troskie so he can sell another hunt?

Am I not entitled to my opinion about his operation?

Am I not entitled to the trophies I paid for in Namibia, which are lost because Troskie did not pay the Namibian PH adequately?

Have all the fun you want jumping on the bandwagon, but my issues with Boet Nel were not unique to me, and until now I think I have been a loyal and generous client of Troskie..

And becuase of this you hunted with him 8 times.....