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Hey, you all are really rich, you throw on fire a lot of gasoline  . With the actual cost of the oil!?!bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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Disgusting. I think these two are in junior high school and in the girls pep club. Grow up... | |||
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404. I don't normaly post here but I will for the record as you have included me in your post. I am the "English Guy" that you refer to in your post. For the record and the factual information of the others here. Jaco did NOT book me to hunt with him. Jaco and I are friends and at the end of what was a very busy year for me, he invited me to come over and hunt with him. The only money that changed hands was between me and the landowners for trophy fees and THEIR day rates. Jaco made not one single Rand on the trip. He even insisted on paying for his own food and we split the cost of the gasoline. To question Jaco's motivation here, for what was a very generious act is malicious falsehood. You had no idea of the facts when you posted and I fucking resent you attacking a friend of mine like that. Now turning to Chris Troskie. Chris e-mailed me and offered me your cancelled hunt long before this post ever began. He told me in that e-mail that it was because your son was homesick. I am damm sure knowing Chris that he did not make that up, why would he, he had no need to give a reason. He offered me that hunt for what remained to be paid. He had no need to do that he simply could have kept the deposit which is as standard non-refundable and just discounted the rest of cost a little. Thereby increasing his margin. He did not, he just attempted to re-coup what he was out of pocket and save the embarassment of cancelling with the landowner. I have only hunted with Chris once. On that occasion he went out of his way to ensure that I had a sucessfull hunt in most trying circumstances for him. He arranged an additional PH to hunt with me that was very familer with the ground because of the unusual climatic conditions that week. On who's rates he made not a single cent. Because I drove a vehicle a few miles for him he gave me a days hunting on his property and the trophys as a gift at the end of my stay in 2007. Chris may have his faults, the chief one I suspect though is dealing with idots like you in public forums. Chiseling clients however is not one of them. As to your wardrobe habits I am far more likley to believe Chris. God alone knows poor bloody PH's have to cover up enough for clients strange habits, sexual exploits and lack of ability. And for the record if you don't want to be thought a poof, then perhaps you should remove that camp little picture below your nickname in postings. | |||
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This is deja vu all over again! Can't wait to see how Pierre Van Tonder fits into this.  | |||
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Hmm, I wonder how Mark Neal came to join the forum? This is certainly an interesting way of getting new members! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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I came to join the Forum just about 12 months ago to look at something that somebody else had posted. As you can see 17.06.07 I do not post here as frankly I do not for the most part find it plesant. The only other post I have ever made was a humerous response to the theme that 404 now alludes to. The only reason that I am here now is that this fuckwit choose to bring his suposed knowledge of a private matter between Jaco and I into a public forum. He was factually incorrect. He impuned Jaco's reputation maliciously and without any justification. And by implication suggests that I was complicit in doing something dishonourable. Neither Jaco or Chris Troskie, have solicited these posts from me. | |||
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This is way third parties need to stay out of it. If a hunter or outfitter/PH wish to post about bad hunts or bad clients it is up to them to do so. Third parties seem to all ways get the facts wrong and just end up posting gossip and rumors. Good Hunting,  | |||
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If I am the "third party" to whom you allude, then I was completly and blissfully unaware of this discussion until 404 brought me and my relationship with these PH's into his equation. Thus by his actions I am not a "third party " any longer. And there is no damm way I am going to let some cross dresser accuse me and my friends of doing something dishonourable when nothing of the sort transpired. | |||
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It's just a jump to the left...  | |||
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and a huge fall.... | |||
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No I am not refering to you as the third party, you were directly involoved. The third party in your specfic part of this would be 404. 404 would be the direct party involved of what got this thread started in the first place. The third party would be the one that started the other thread that got all of the mess started in the first place. He decide to post issues of others that he was not involved in. Good Hunting, | |||
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+1!. I will say that I think the personal stuff is a bit inappropriate from both parties -- and it must not have really bothered either of them. Some of the comments might be appropriate (bad food, etc) if true, but most of this seems pretty irrelevant. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. | |||
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Mr Culpepper. I now see what you mean. If I was sharp with you I apologise, I am somewhat cross with this individual. | |||
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There are a lot of red herrings in this thread. As I read it, the issue seems to be the hunter became disillusioned with his favorite PH over several specific events: 1. He shot 2 oryx and 2 kudu on a hunt in Namibia with this PH in 2006, and has not received the trophies. In addition, he felt that the PH let him down judging the first kudu, with which he was disappointed. It turned out to be a 47" kudu and it's still in Namibia being held hostage along with the client's other trophies. Client has received a note from the landowner in Namibia saying that he is not entitled to trophies because he did not buy a trophy hunt, but rather a management hunt. The landowner has demanded an additional $1000 PER KUDU, not clear about the other animals. The client says he bought a trophy hunt and paid (I believe) $1200 and $1300 for the two kudu, not sure what he paid for the gemsbok. This would indicate that the landowner thinks a trophy kudu is worth $2200 or $2300! The PH maintains the client was flexible as to trophy size and that he told him the kudu was mediocre before client took the shot, but he has not commented about the ransom note or the hostage situation. 2. The client says he was sold a hunt in Botswana that was represented as a concession hunt while it was in fact a ranch hunt. The hunt was apparently unproductive. Client says the PH continues to misrepresent the nature of the hunt as well as his experience with the area to other potential clients. The PH hasn't addressed this issue. 3. The client had problems with "cooks" on at least two hunts. In one case, he says the cook wasn't any good at cooking, although she was apparently very good at other activities; and in the other case, the cook was the PHs wife. The client, having met her previously, specifically requested that she not be part of his hunt. However, the PH ignored that request and she came along anyway. From other postings on AR, the PH's wife has conflicted feelings about hunting. The PH doesn't disagree with these facts, as best I can tell, but he has taken umbrage at the client's email feedback to him regarding the presence and personality of his wife after the hunt. 3. The client appears to have an unpredictable business/travel schedule and admits that he cancelled at least three hunts on short notice. In one case he paid the requested cancellation fee (with Jaco); in another case, when the client's wife seemed to have trouble making up her mind about her first trip to Africa, it's not clear how this was handled; the client then ended up going on a Safari with another operator in Namibia two weeks later, which offended the PH. In a third case, when the client says his son was taken ill and the PH claims his son was merely homesick, the PH kept the full prepayment for a hunt, comprised of daily rates ($700 per day x 7 days on a 2x1 hunt) plus some additional payments bringing the total to $6500, but offered to apply this amount to a future hunt. But he also charged $75 per day premium on the rebook as a "rebooking fee" and also $600 for 4 additional rifle permits for Botswana, when according to the client these permits cost $200. The client, as a major repeat customer, felt that he was owed some consideration/flexibility due to the amount of money he has spent with this PH, instead the PH was starting to nickle and dime him unfairly. The PH doesn't address these issues. The parties became disillusioned with each other as a result of these events, and the client, who had initially been a strong reference for the PH, began to provide negative testimonials instead of the expected praise, and apparently also withdrew or revised testimonials he had provided in the past. This then culminated when the client mentioned kudu incident (without mentioning names) on another thread, causing the PH to tell his side of the story in this thread. This then led to a major piling on by others. Unfortunately, in three pages of derogatory and mostly irrelevant postings, the key issues outlined above have not been addressed by the PH. I may have some of the facts wrong, if so I apologize and would welcome correction from anyone, it's somewhat difficult to wade through all the other "stuff" in this thread. If the parties would like to correct any misstatement in my summary, that would be helpful. And the PH really needs to address the real issues here rather than harping on about the client's toiletries etc. A calm response to the HUNTING ISSUES may be useful to clients considering a booking with PH as well as to PHs considering taking a booking from this client. As far as the salacious comments and red herrings introduced by other parties, these just confuse the issue and are for the most part in poor taste. Let's allow the protagonists to sort this out. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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Dear Mr Gould, What a very reasoned approach to what is undoubtably a difficult issue. It is nice that in these days of intolerence to the failings of other christain souls and their slight deviations from the paths of truth and honesty, that there is an oppertunity for them to see the error of their ways in a civilized manner. So any time the panty wasted, mommys boy, limpwristed, fuckwit, shirtlifter, would like to retract what he said about my amd Jaco's hunting trip. I will be most pleased to forgive him in a spirit of Christain understanding. | |||
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.... And then a step to the right. With your hand on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust. They really drive you insane. Let's do the Time Warp again. Let's do the Time Warp again | |||
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Mark, You might be taken more seriously if you drop the profanity and blatant insults. Who are you anyway? | |||
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Interesting post from a guy who created a level 5 shitstorm here a week ago. https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/500106968 Either way, outfitters and hunters alike need to find better ways to resolve these issues-the list of people I would book with or through on this site is getting smaller and smaller. The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery. -- Winston Churchill | |||
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Mark, I've never met you, but I do consider Jaco a good friend - and you certainly wouldn't get past the interview for the diplomatic corps, but from one Brit to another, I've gotta say it's refreshing to see a fine exhibition of British forhrightedness........ say what you mean and mean what you say, don't be afraid of using that wonderfully expressive word F word and always call a spade a spade and not an earth inverting horticultural implement.  | |||
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He speaks very highly of you as well Steve. Maybe we can all meet up one day and sink a few or hunt together. Jaco has thrown open the hospitality of his home and we have had some damm good times together. He would do anything in his power for a friend. I am just not going to stand by and let somebody that has never even spent time with him insult him or myself with his inuendo. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bwana. Who am I? My name is as displayed in my header. If you are asking what my relationship is in regard of this thread, I thought that my first post on the subject contained an explaination. If you are asking who am I? in terms of what I do for a living and who I am as a person? I own a construction company, an engineering company and am a gunmaker. I have two honours degrees from English Red Brick universities, one a first and the other a 2/1. Am a hunter and a historian. Was born and brought up in London, so don't consider any of the words I used to be especially profane. Like dogs and cats, give money every year to the British Legion poppy appeal. Help old ladies accross the road when I see them. Hate Bannanas and never saw the point in Lychees, spiders make me jump. Can't spell. Own only 2 pairs of Grey socks (well 2 1/2 if you count the odd one in the bottom of the drawer). My knees hurt when it is going to rain. I shoot for the GB Rifle and pistol team and sing men of Harlich along with the cast when I watch the final scene of Zulu. I like my toast to just go slightly cold before I butter it so that the butter doesent melt, but only thin cut marmalade. Traveled all over the world with the exception of Australia and New Zealand. Proberbly because I like Marmite and not vegimite. Have seen so many friends depart in the last 20 years that it is hard to think on it. Treasure those that remain. Wish you could still get ice cream from the street barrrows cut fron the block between two peices of rice paper, So much better than McFlurries don't you think? Is that enough Bio' / Oh And I suffer fools very badly. Regards | |||
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Well said. | |||
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shakari I have to concur with your assessment. Sometimes it is refreshing to see a person get right to the point. And, yes, the "F" word indeed is one of the most versatile words in any language and is often weilded by those with the appropriate level of practice as masterfully as any artist with a brush, composer with a pen or sharpshooter wth a rifle. I could not explain it any better than this Indian gentleman, who no doubt has been a beneficiary of the British influence that is still found on the sub-continent today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynKhsMz68qw SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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Thats pretty damn impressive! Please tell me more! I was on the University of Manchester Pistol team and have shot at Bisley many times. Exactly which team are we talking about here? Your language does not reflect well on someone who has a First from a British University. It sounds more like the language from someone who goes to the University of Florida and plays on the football team. Or perhaps a Technical College? Now, having said all that, perhaps you can get Jaco to reply to the points that Russ raised in his most recent post. He seems to have a done a fairly careful analysis, which, if correct, means that the crucial issues have not been addressed by Jaco. "I am just not going to stand by and let somebody that has never even spent time with him".. I thought that 404 had been on 8 hunts with him? Is this not correct? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter You have a dog in this fight, or are you just looking to get chewed on a little? SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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Manchester: thats that funny place between the Watford gap and Liverpool isen't it. No wonder you moved to Florida. NRA (UK) Role Number 1425. GB Gallery rifle and pistol team-European match 2006, 2007. BA Hons (Exon) Class of 97 Double major. 1st in sociology 2/1 in History. My degree was confered in 97 and presented to me by Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu. Jaco cannot reply to the points Russ raised you double fuckwit. Because if you read the thread, rather than sticking your oar in where it is not wanted you would realise that the PH in question is Chris Troskie and my post was about a single incorrect reference in an earlier post by 404 where he made a factually incorrect statment about Jaco and I. That you see is the penalty of having attended a second class university. No bloody analitical ability. Now fuck off and play with somebody your own size. | |||
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The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery. -- Winston Churchill | |||
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Jim, you are right! I probably overextended a bit! No, I have no dog in this fight, except to try to find out what happened. I believe that I may have contacted Chris when he first started posting on this forum. Basically I am still hoping to get to Africa again and am just trying to find out who to hunt with and who to avoid. That's all. Mark, thank you for the correction. You are absolutely correct, it was Chris and not Jaco. This whole thing has been going on and has got so convoluted that I am getting confused. Having said that, I still consider your use of language deplorable. I believe it is possible to communicate effectively without use of terms like "double fuckwit" and "now fuck off and play". Thank you again for the correction. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Mark, Im sure that one day we're gonna be good friends and the three of us will have to try to make a point to meet up at Jaco's place or elswhere.......... Dammit, I'm still crying with laughter!!!! | |||
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I have returned today from a hunt and wish to respond to recent posts. As for the fellow from England who is now very upset, I wish to point out that- Jaco posted in support of Troskie, and I replied that Jaco may want to know that Troskie has bad mouthed Jaco to me pretty extensively, including such details as "stealing" an English client, etc. I have no information to offer as to what actually happened and surely any reader of my post would not reasonably assume that I was advocating on Troskie's behalf as the wronged party..I put forward the "facts" as told to me, which could have been pure fantasy or BS on my part, but apparently have some measure of truth, else why the response? The element of truth was the fellow from England hunted with Troskie, then hunted with Jaco. One side tells me a client was "stolen", the other says no. What I take away from this is -Jaco may not want to champion Trokie -Troskie seems to have exaggerated the facts of the situation to me PERIOD. Not that it happened or some such thing.. so why pile on all sort of "pub talk" threats directed at me. The fact that the fellow did so tells me that he did not understand the point I was making. Rather, it is, especially after recent input, yet another example of Troskie "smearing" someone- Jaco to me and, in this thread, myself to the board, based on innuendo and in my case, pure fantasy.. Also note that Troskie initiated threads about PHs that steal another PH's clients- which he told me was directed at Jaco, and cited as an example the aforementioned "stolen" client from England, including the situation of "special deals" on hunts. Perhaps the fellow from England who is so upset may not have seen this thread, because if he had he may have responded differently. PH stealing Clients I may add as an aside, I really wonder where some of the posters found the photos they posted......more a statement about them than the thread or me, I think. True, I was a repeat client of Trokie's, and considered myself as a loyal client, and was used as a reference for him, up until the day or so before the last hunt we had, as I have mentioned before. There were issues that came up in previous hunts, and which I overlooked as "things happen". I sort of had it as a "last straw" when I learned, as previously written, the true facts about my now lost Namibian trophies, and the other issues so well laid out by Russ Gould in his post. I note that none of these issues have been addressed by Troskie, nor has he responded to my request to take my photos off his site. Instead, he throws up only some oddball talk of mascara- which, as I think about it is quite funny. According to Troskie- I come to hunt with him in Africa, but rush off to get mascara, but I also hide it from my wife along with "pharamaceuticals" at his house when I go home..so when do I wear the "make-up" presumably only on the hunt? So I guess it is fair to say that according to Troskie, it was done for HIM! I mean, why else, right? Perhaps that is why he includes statements in his original post which strike me as more indicitive of a jilted junior high school girl e.g. "he learned he doesn't own me" and "when he saw me with my wife he realized he didn't own me" which strikes me as total weirdo CREEPY statements. I again point out that I did not bring all this to the board, apparently my emails directly to Trokie pissed him off, and my contact with 2 other board members, and likely a third who wrote me about my comments on the Tuli area put him into a tizzy, hence his again CREEPY post that started the thread. ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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For the fellow from England, here is what I said about Jaco and his client, in its original format, which quite clearly states that I am not presenting as fact, but rather as something Troskie stated which I did not believe and reflected poorly on Troskie. I can understand h the Englishman's frustration as well. Really, these are side issues-the real issues are: Why won't Troskie address my concerns? What won't Troskie remove my photos from his site on the basis that I am such a terrible client? ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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Doesn't anyone remember the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I was trying to add some brevity to this conversation. Two friends have clearly had a falling out and frankly that sucks. Life is too short for this sort of thing. The absolutely best way to have a great hunting trip is to go with low expectations, no matter how much you spend. And the best way to deliver a good hunting trip is to deliver more then is expected. | |||
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At no point have I threatened you. Been rude to you yes, but no threat. But somebody using the image and words of two homosexual icons on a single post should expect that. You have to be carefull, as displaying symptoms of paranoia is one of the factors that will definatly rule out trans-gender surgery. Insted of just retracting what was a malicious falsehood you seem to want to repeat it. What is it with you. Is it just because you can not even pay people enough to spend time in your company ? quote Rather, it is, especially after recent input, yet another example of Troskie "smearing" someone- Jaco to me and, in this thread, myself to the board, based on innuendo and in my case, pure fantasy.. end quote What the hell do you mean Troskie smearing somebody ?! You posted the links. Where in the hell does Chris mention either Jaco or myself ?? You are the only person that has posted anything to the effect that it was an Englishman in question, or Jaco. As to the drinking thread that is another falsehood of yours. You will note that I replied humourously at the time, the only other occasion I have posted to this forum. You wish to hide your deplorable actions with this "I am only repeating what I was told" nonsense. when at the same time suposedly repeating what you were told by somebody you now wish to call a liar. You were wrong, period. You took unrelated pieces of information and attempted to discredit Jaco, and by that to discredit Chris. You made the big mistake of involving me in this. Now I can understand that following Chris's tight little arse around the bush for a few days left you with a nice lazy lob, tossing and turning in your cot whilst he was banging away must have been the height of fustration. But now you are just getting catty sugar. All that tension will give you wrinkles you know. Now withdraw what you said. You are trying to defend the indefensable. I am the person you are talking about. You are factually incorrect. | |||
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Mr. Neal I think you are really pressing too much on this issue. I tried to respond to you in a measured manner, and gave you the benefit fo the doubt. I also think that you and others are having a little too much fun with all the gay talk, which seems to come so easily to some people. Please re-read what I have posted, and if you don't agree with my presentation of it- fine. I do think you are merely discrediting yourself further with you profanities, sexual innuendo and references to Christian forgiveness. You may post all you want, but I will not respond to you further. ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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mark you have me rolling on the floor laughing, you raised the entertaintment value of this tread to the moon, thanks cheers peter p.s. the H&H dident go out to you today, so no need to look for it, i will try again tommorow. | |||
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Saeed PLEASE!!! I admit I came to AR and was immediately at odds with Moderator GeorgeS because I believed (still do) him to be far too heavy handed in his moderation. (Specifically, he removed an entire thread because someone called someone else a "politician"  )Saeed, you on the other hand have been EXTREMELY liberal and tolerant in your moderation of this particular thread, and I commend you on that; BUT I really think perhaps it is time this crap dissappeared from public (possibly anti-hunting) eyes. It is entertaining and enlightening, but I really think that it is a showcase of the lowest possible standards a human can set, and cannot reflect well on our passion for hunting & firearms. BY THIS STATEMENT I AM IN NO WAY TAKING SIDES OR ENTERING THE DEBATE: I am merely saying that to continue this thread, with the tone used by the main characters, and the ugly & personal snippets from the "audience" CANNOT BE GOOD FOR OUR COLLECTIVE CAUSE! Please seriously considder removing it. You can give due warning to the players so they can copy and paste it for their personal refference, but get it out of the public eye now. It's the better thing to do...... http://www.bigbore.org/ http://www.chasa.co.za Addicted to Recoil ! I hunt because I am human. Hunting is the expression of my humanity... | |||
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I am afraid I do not agree with you. We have here a number of people who seem to have a problem with each other, and as it has already been brought into the open, I think we should leave it to them to sort it out without me - or anyone esle for that matter - stops them. | |||
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So that is how it ends is it 404. Put on the slingbacks, slip on the elbow gloves, dab of lip gloss, touch of Elnet and flounce into the sunset to the strains of the Beverly sisters ? You are a liar and a coward. You attempted to use A friend and my relationship as a foil in your argument with Chris. It was a discracefull and disgusting thing to do. What you wrote had no foundation in fact and now you want to play the injured innocent because you got called on it. If you were at all confident in your sexuality you would not be so intimidated by the transexual jibes. "I think the lady doth protest to much" personaly. ----------------------------------------------- Unless there is any more from 404 I intend to slip back into obscurity from whence I came. I thank Saeed for his forbearence in this matter especially as I am not a regular contributer here. To Peter, who was man enough to correct his initial posting without edit. I should like to withdraw the F****it part of what I wrote. You might have been wrong Peter but that took guts. 404 could learn a lot from you. To the friends who posted, we will meet up near the border sometime I hope, that should be a good night !. I'll pack my best frock. To the other members of this forum I should like to express my sincere regret if they feel I degraded their forum. Personaly I do not feel that I have. Sometimes it is necessary to put down the binoculars, stop looking and shoot the bloody thing. Best Regards to the aforementioned. Mark | |||
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Hey Mark, I'd rather you show up in a frock than in some of Boddington's Daisy Duke shorts! Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
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Well we will take that as an implied vote of confidence in Mr. Troskie from Mr. Neal. Most of Mr. Neal's contribution is a vehement denial of 404's indirect allegation that Jaco stole a client from Mr. Troskie (ie Mr. Neal). 404 actually alleged that Mr. Troskie BELIEVES and has told him (404) that Jaco stole his client. Mr. Neal asserts that he went hunting with Jaco as an invited friend and that he paid the landowner directly for the hunt, ie that Jaco made no money on the deal and thus did not violate any trust placed in him by Mr. Troskie . This appears to be a side matter however, having to do with the relationship between Troskie and Jaco and also with the character of Jaco. After these exchanges, we still don't know for sure whether Troskie trusts Jaco or not, or whether Troskie has in fact expressed his displeasure with Jaco to 404 and others, specifically for stealing clients or overindulging on the job, but that is neither here nor there with respect to the topic at hand...namely whether 404 sucks as Troskie asserts. Jaco's original input is relevant to that topic...he confirms that 404 has, on at least one occasion, booked a hunt and then cancelled at the last minute. But he also confirms that 404 paid the requested cancellation fee. From a PH's perspective, cancelling hunts is not desirable behavior on the part of a client, so I think we can chalk up that point to Mr. Troskie as far as that aspect of 404's conduct is concerned. 404 himself conceded this point so it's no longer contested. The fact that 404 paid Jaco the cancellation fee indirectly supports 404s assertions that he has paid Troskie in full and then some for the various hunts. Troskie has never said 404 failed to pay in full for anything. So I think we can put that matter aside now as well. The remaining allegation against 404, are: 1. that he is wont to use women's cosmetics, has been well covered by both parties and we will have to call that contested. In any case, it's not clear that using cosmetics makes one a lousy client. 2. that he made negative comments to Troskie about his wife has been admitted by 404 without apology and the client's perspective has been offered. On its own, it appears to be weak evidence. If this is part of a pattern of condescending or belittling behavior, then it is stronger and relevant to the main allegation. 3. that he likes to shop for rifles and clothing in Africa has been admitted by 404 without apology. Mr. Troskie does not explain why this behavior is distasteful to a PH. 4. that he made negative comments about Mr. Troskie's abode has not been responded to by 404. If this is part of a pattern of belittling behavior, then it could to some degree support Mr. Troskie's assertion that 404 sucks as a client. 5. that he likes titty bars has been answered and we would have to call that contested and again, if it were true, would that support the main allegation that 404 sucks? 6. that he doesn't like women has been answered, and since 404 is married one would have to say it has been refuted, and again, how does this support the thesis here? 7. that he made negative comments to various prospective clients about Troskie and his operation by email and/or PM has been admitted, at least in the case of 2 clients that were provided 404's name as a reference by Mr. Troskie. This is clearly sucky behavior from a PH's perspective but not necessarily from the perspective of the AR members, particularly those that were provided with feedback, and especially if true. And that still leaves the core allegations I outlined in my post above against Mr. Troskie, that remain unanswered and therefore possibly valid. So I would say the jury is still out..and that, at least in my mind, the accused must be held innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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Russ, Just what is your motivation for continuing to stir this pot? Do you have any direct involvement in this matter, or are you up to the usual? You may not intend to do so, and you will surely deny it, but your past and present record of taking any opportunity to criticize the practices and experiences of your competitors creates the impression of you as a shameless opportunist. Certainly, if you were sincere in your belief that "the accused must be held innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt", 404's original unsubstantiated allegations against Chris Trotskie would be given similar deference by you. Instead, you are playing the role of advocate for 404, taking his claims against the PH as fact and slanting your questions in anything but an impartial manner. It is a little disingenuous for you to assume the role of the chief high justice here when you have a more than passing interest in its outcome. The apparent glee in which you seem to revel when it comes to highlighting possible problems with other outfitters and PH's you do not represent is fairly well established here. Thus, your credibility as an impartial arbiter is seriously impaired. You could do us all a favor by cutting the crap. It is pretty clear what you are trying to do here, and it does nothing to enhance your reputation or standing. There are two kinds of people in this world: People that work hard and build a name and reputation for themselves through superior performance, and people that lack the talent, skills or drive to compete on that level and find it necessary to tear the accomplishments of others down to make their lack of achievement appear par for the course. You would do yourself a great service by focusing on what you can do, rather than wallowing in the mud hole of sewing circle gossip about what others cannot do. If you want to get 404 as a client, go for it. You can accomplish that without continuing to take the rest of us for fools or running down your competitors. And please do so somewhere else. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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