Saeed, I was really...

I dident imply anything Mr Gould.

I stated flat out that I believe Chris Troskie. and only a barracks room lawyer as you appear to be, could read that any other way.

Neither is it a side issue.

404 used a public forum to perpetuate an untruth in an attempt to harm the reputation of one professional hunter. I have demonstrated that he is a liar.

Why on earth should you call on Chris Troskie another professional hunter to further defend himself against the allegations of somebody who is demonstrably a liar.

Think about this folks that are following this....
When Chris could not accomodate 404, to whom did he pass a lucrative repeat (was it 6 trips in 18 months then ?) client.
To Jaco. Whom now 404 would have you believe is Mr Troskies worst idea of a client thief.
And now 404 decides to throw this alledged conversation with Chris into the ring and have it repeated and believed.
Which is how I was dragged into this.

The test Mr Gould if you want to go into amateur legalising in a civil matter is not "beyond reasonable doubt" but "the balance of probabilities"

By that correct standard, nothing 404 says should be given any credence whatsoever.

I cannot understand why you want to be involved with this Mr Gould, unless you are hopeing to get a reach around from your new client.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Neal:
...I intend to slip back into obscurity from whence I came.
Mark

It was a nice thought - as long as it lasted...

- mike

My lack of response to the several issues / allegations that have been raised since my last post was not due to a lack of answers to such but indeed to the fact that I have been hunting for the past 12 days.

I do intend responding to the relevant issues / questions and will be doing so shortly.

Chris and myself had our differences.

On the matter of over-indulgence I had a chat with Chris and he assured me it was not meant against me, it was about a young ph he used the previous year. If anybody is interested I ussually will have about two drinks in the evening and lately I prefer two glasses of good red wine, for the rest of the evening I will drink strong coffee. To this Mark can testify.

Chris and myself did differ on the fact that Mark hunted with me, but we sorted that out. After that another client that hunted with Chris while I worked with Chris as a ph did contact me for a tour when they came to RSA. I informed Chris about it and we decided to each quote the person and share the information with each other. Neither of us, well I did not get the booking as the group was short of money.

Chris and myself sorted out our differences in an amicable way. Chris called me after my post and we will have a beer on the next time he will be in Pretoria. I will have more than two beers and Chris can stay over at my place if we decide to overindulge ha ha ha.

To Mark, thanks buddy, you are a true friend. I have never asked Mark to defend me in any way. Mark you are a true friend indeed. I hunted with you because I wanted to and you were a lot of fun. I enjoyed every minute of it. Maybe we must organise a hunt between you me and Steve and get Chris to join us. Then the two South Africans can teach you souties how to drink whiskey, he he he. Only joking, but we will have lots of fun.

Chris, Thea thinks you are very soft on the eye, now don't try your luck, I might end up getting you totally drunk.

I said enough for now, have fun.

quote:

Maybe we must organise a hunt between you me and Steve and get Chris to join us. Then the two South Africans can teach you souties how to drink whiskey

Sounds good to me, just as long as you don't make Mark and I drink bloody brandy!

Just what is your motivation for continuing to stir this pot? - Manion

Just keeping the thread on track, it has been sidetracked quite a bit and has become confusing so I decided to summarize the status on both sides, as best I can do it.

I note you don't take exception to others stirring the pot...do you have a bone to pick with me for some reason Mr. Manion?

In my mind the jury is out as to whether Troskie sucks or 404 sucks or both. But so far, Troskie appears to be trailing due to his unwillingness to answer the allegations made by the client. 404, on the other hand, has responded to most of those made against him.

If you don't care to read my posts, Mr. Manion, then put me on your ignore list.

Mr. Manion, you are pretty good at making wild and unfounded allegations yourself. Mr Troskie is not my competitor and I have nothing to gain by putting him down...which I don't believe I have done. I am not a PH or a Safari operator.

If I were trying to curry favor with the hunter-members of this forum, my postings would be far more obsequious toward them. As in smiley face, "interesting point" etc etc. I go on the record as saying that there are several potential clients that have posted here, and on my other posts, whose deposits I would return should they ever book a hunt through me. You, Mr. Manion, are one of them. I don't care to do business with people who I find to be vulgar and unpleasant.

If I have taken an interest in this thread, it's because it is aligned with my earlier assertion that the industry needs to clean up its act. In fact, the opening post is borrowed directly from my post.

quote:

404 used a public forum to perpetuate an untruth in an attempt to harm the reputation of one professional hunter. I have demonstrated that he is a liar.

Mr. Neal,

You have demonstrated nothing, other than that you fall into Manion's camp in my book.

404 stated that Troskie had bad-mouthed Jaco to him regarding the matter of stealing clients. He was relating Troskie's mindset/statements regarding Jaco and you (hearsay), not what in fact happened. He has no way of knowing what in fact happened, just as you have no way of knowing what Mr Troskie did or did not confide in 404.

Jaco, in his second post above, has admitted that Mr. Troskie had animus toward him regarding the subject of stealing clients in general, and SPECIFICALLY regarding your hunting with Jaco.

So any logical person cannot agree with your statement that 404 lied about Mr. Troskie's difficulties with Jaco, at least at one time. Until Mr. Troskie himself provides his input on this aspect of the saga, we can't conclude absolutely that 404 is telling the truth either, but what he said certainly appears consistent. And there is an old post on this forum, about the time you hunted with Jaco, where Mr. Troskie does indeed voice his anger at hired PHs attempting to insert themselves into the business relationship. Again, consistent. And finally, it would have been rather stupid of 404 to make a wildly false statement on a thread that he knew Jaco was following.

We are not saying that you lied, Mr. Neal. I am sure you have stated the facts regarding your hunt with Jaco. I am just saying that it appears that Mr. Troskie didn't know or didn't believe, initially, that this was just a friendly thing between you and Jaco, and he assumed the worst. It's very likely, that he did "bad mouth" Jaco to 404 at one time, and 404 is thus not guilty of lying as you so confidently state.

In any case, whether Mr. Troskie did or did not tell 404 that he resented Jaco's behavior, this has no bearing on the specific allegations made against 404 by Mr. Troskie, and vice versa. Other than to refute your confident characterization that 404 is an outright liar and thus everything he says should not be believed.

It's all hearsay anyway. So again, I think it's been a huge distraction.

And BTW, you seem extremely facile with the gay talk.

quote:

Mr. Manion, you are pretty good at making wild and unfounded allegations yourself. Mr Troskie is not my competitor and I have nothing to gain by putting him down...which I don't believe I have done. I am not a PH or a Safari operator.

My, my. No problem stretching the truth, huh? You may not be a PH nor an Operator, but if I am not mistaken, you do represent PH's and Operators, right? And is it not a fact that neither Chris Troskie nor Jaco Human are included in the stable of PH's and operators you do represent?

Or, are you telling us that you do not make any money promoting hunts in Africa? Not a dime?

Certainly, if you do make money from promoting safaris, and if people get the idea that certain PH's and operators are not reliable nor trustworthy, the PH's you represent may benefit from the business that might have gone to others. And in turn, if a PH you represent manages to benefit from your efforts, those efforts carry a financial reward that also benefits you personally.

It does my heart good to hear you would return a deposit from me if I ever sent one, but rest assured you will never have to be burdened with that task. I do not deal with those whose practices and ethics I find personally revolting. But you can do me a favor, and provide a list of those PH's and operators you do work with, so I can avoid them at all costs. I would presume, of course, that those whom you represent share your business approach and do not find your practices objectionable.

You, Gould, give new meaning to the term disingenuous. And frankly, you insult the intelligence of the members of this board by trying to put an altruistic spin on your thinly veiled purposes in dragging your competition down (or more precisely, the competition of the PH's and operators you make a buck off of).

True, I did not take exception to others here. However, most others had some first hand experience on the issues or made some passing remarks meant to be passing remarks. You, MR Big5, were the only one that assumed the self appointed role of grand arbiter. A role, I might add, is well beyond your capabilities. It is much too far of a climb from the bottoms you inhabit.

quote:

In my mind the jury is out as to whether Troskie sucks or 404 sucks or both.

In that very limited space, there no doubt is little room for any rational thought process. But, suffice it to say that you have indeed provided evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that as far as Russ Gould goes, "The suck stops here". Congratulations, Russ.

Hot Damn! I just wish that I could lock you all up together and sell tickets..

I have no stake in this matter except as a highly amused bystander but it appears to me thus if I were to be on the jury.

404, I tend to believe that the allegations against you are a true bill.
Personally I have a lot more faith in what a hard working PH has to say than a jet setting big wig.
Not that I have anything against jet setters, but your words have not rung true to me.

Chris; Yes calling 404 a cross dressing poofter may have been in less than stellar style, but you obviously were pissed about his allegations against your wife, and since you were not in the position that you wanted to be " which is ideally within knuckle busting range" you took the best shot you could to hurt him the worst.
I understand that, and know how when someone attacks our loved ones the gloves come off.
You were just hurting and wanting to get even, fair enough, but true or not those words probably would be a good excuse for an apology on your part, and in good taste.

I do tend to believe you for the most part, I find it hard to believe that you would burn a long term client over something as small as 404 suggests.
Part of my livelyhood also is derived from the service field and fellows such as you and I do not make a living by running off wealthy, well paying long term clients unless we are just stupid " which you certainly do not appear to be" or else they have violated one or more of our personal codes.

Mark; You just sound like a kick in the shorts,, I no longer drink but I would line up to buy you one.

Russ; I don't know why exactly but I personally don't like you,, nothing personal you understand.
But you do seem to come across exactly as has been mentioned, so perhaps a little more subtle approach to your bad mouthing may work a tad better, or just knock it the F off..

Saaed; I just want to tahnk you for having the sticktoyourgunsness to let these boys duke it out.
It has been immensely enjoyable.

And to the whiners that are so certain that this thread is the downfall of anything of class on this site,, grow the F up and get over it.
Or go back and play dolls with your girl friends and let the boys have their fun.

I am looking forward to Troskie's response as to

1. where my Namibia trophies are,

2. Why he misrepresented to me the Botswana area ie busman trackers, "wild Africa"

3. The issue about Charmaine the hooker appears to be admitted by Troskie and chocked up to the category of I wasn't married so who cares.

As for his original allegations that I am not a "gentleman or a "man".

In particular, I think the issue he has with me not being a gentleman referes to my written statements to him about his wife, who he brought on our hunt over my specific request not to do so.

Vis-a-vis women- who is the gentleman? He seems to think it is fine to live with a woman, bring another woman on a hunt as his "cook" spend the night with her, etc. yet says I did not act in a "gentlemanly" manner toward his wife. Please note there are no allegations that I was in any way rude or unfriendly to her. I basically kept my mouth shut and suffered through it.


I put up with his wife and their quarrels, her odd statements and having her on the truck every afternoon. I did not say a word to her about it and did not say anything to Troskie at the time because she was already there and I knew, as a woman, she would be very hurt and I did not want to do this. I did consider asking them to leave and to continue on hunting only with the landowner, and in fact tried to arrange this on the basis of extending my hunt, but could not arrange flights.

As to not being a "man" and confronting him- bear in mind at the time I left I had two issues with him, one, bringing his wife along, and two, the small kudu. I had already decided not to raise the issue of his wife, as that would go nowhere. The kudu, we discussed and he discounted it $100, but at the time I still thought is was a low 50s kudu..

Upon my return I investigated the Namibia trophy issue and basically saw that he had been BSing me time and again about them for well over a year, and I wrote to Troskie about this issue and he sent me back what I took to be a "fuck off" response.

To answer an earlier poster, I don't think he really wanted to drive off a good client, I think it was apparent to him that because of these issues, and our private emails to each other, we would not hunt again.

I then sent Troskie a very aggressive email where I called him a loser and a liar and cited examples. As to why he is a loser, I cited examples of his personal life I observed, but which I will not repeat here, and I also cited his wife and my observations about her and their relationship and my opinion of it. I will not repeat the specifics here, because though I basically think Troskie is one of the worst, most manipulative individuals I have come across, the contents of the private email I sent him are based on converations we had when we were "friends" and I don't want to violate them, even at this heated time, by publically disclosing them. Some may not agree, but between he and I, we were friends for several years, (so I thought) and therefore I was giving him my straightforward opinion about him and his decisions, and his actions toward me.

Please note at no time did I publicly say anything negative about his wife, he has complained about what I said to him about his wife and his living arrangements where he sells hunts, it was in private emails to Troskie and were intended to remain so.

If I want to tell a former friend to go Fuck Himself, and why, in a private email that is my peroggative. Don't know why Troskie chose to be so offended as to bring it to the board, and in junior high school jilted girl fashion, think the the meanest nastiest most terribliest thing his little head could think of and say.... I WEAR MASCARA!

Troskie was the one who brought this to the board- statements I made to him in private emails, though I think now he regrets it....

As for being a "man"- and not confronting him- bear in mind when we were last face to face, the issues I am particularly bothered about- Namibia trophies, nickel and diming me on charges for the hunt eg $150 for a permit when the landowner charged him $50, yet telling me he was "not making any money on the hunt", were not known to me, as they are now, and in particular, in my opinion, saw Troskie's "true colors" in his responses to me where I raised these issues.

On another matter,

I have tried to figure out exactly why Mr. Neal thinks I am a liar or how he has proven that I am a liar. I note Jaco has posted that all is well with Troskie and that Troskie told him to his face that the "PHs stealing other PH's client" thread was not directed at Jaco and Jaco accepted that.

Just to be clear, Jaco posted in this thread that he spoke with Troskie and that

-Troskie assured him the PH stealing clients post was not about Jaco
-the drinking allegation was not about Jaco
-they are fine and fast friends

Apparently Troskie has added Jaco and Mr. Neal to the list of people he has "snowed"-

Please read on and tell me- And I am the liar? Did I, as some allege, make up all the stuff about Jaco? Although this is a private email sent to me by Troskie, since it appears to be universally accepeted that I am some kind of liar, and Troskie merely a victim here, I am posting it.

NOTE I do not have any first hand knowledge about the lever gun hunt, drinking, client stealing- I merely pointed out that Jaco may not want to champion Troskie as Troskie has MF'd Jaco to me time and again. Then someone comes on and says I made it up and am a liar etc. and Jaco further boosts Trokie and by implication discounts my claims by saying Trokie and he are fast friends etc.


I don't blame Jaco or Mr. Neal, Troskie is a very smooth operator and is quite adept as BSing people..


Please see the attached email sent to me by Troskie:

Hey man,

How’s business going? Everything sorted out – making money???

Don’t know if you saw my post on AR about PH’s poaching clients…

Remember I hired this cocksucker Jaco Human to help me with the levergun.com hunt last year? Well, he and the one English guy had quite a good rapport with each other seeing as they both enjoyed boozing until the wee hours of the morning.

So following my post about the “alcohol in camp†thread on AR I get this stupid email from Human stating that he never overindulged during the hunt and that it was forward of me to make remarks like I had on AR. Then he continues to say that the English client and him had an excellent hunt in January getting 6 animals in so many days… Funny thing is that I never raised the issue of his alcohol use with him directly nor did I make any mention of him in my AR post… yet he jumps to his own defence immediately… by implication admitting guilt or what do you think?

Turns out that Human made an offer to the client to come back and hunt with him – paying cost on trophy fees on top of his daily rate… Interesting of course is that few clients actually know exactly how much “cost†is… But that’s not all… during follow-up correspondence with the client it turns out that another PH that was hunting for me also invited the client to go hunt Springbok in the Kalahari with him and his family – also at “costâ€â€¦ And ANOTHER PH whom I contracted for the last 2 days – just to get him some animals as Human seemed unable to do so offers the client a free buffalo hunt in Zambia as a straight swop for a .470 Nitro Express Double (which he builds as a hobby BTW)…Of course the client would have been a fool NOT to take these assholes up on their offers. After all… who would pay regular trophy fees if they can pay cost??? Then the client goes on to assure me that if ever he were to book a “commercial hunt†again he would most certainly contact me for a quote first… Yeah sure… but why the hell would he book a “commercial†hunt if he can “hunt for free†with the other guys???

Anyway, that’s all the news I have save the fact that my season is looking pretty good… The MD from Wyoming booked a 14 day hunt for July, I have 2 hunts scheduled for May and a bowhunter coming in June… Just might be able to let the books balance for a change…

Take care and best of luck with the business!!!

Cheers,

Chris Troskie
Tel / Fax +27 14 763-2207
Cell +27 82 859-0771 / +27 83 963-3911 ( South Africa )
PO Box 32 Lephalale 0555 South Africa
www.ct-safaris.com
"Better than sitting in an office!"

In another matter, Troskie keeps posting that we cancelled the first Bots trip because my son was "homesick" casting at least me as some kind of flake..

Here is an excerpt of the email Troskie sent me a few days after the hunt, the rest of the email is rather long, so I merely excerpted it, but the full text, with headers is available as authentification:

"I contacted the camp owner directly and asked if we
could move the hunt to a
later date given the circumstances (i.e. that Zach got
sick and had to go
home). He agreed to deal with me directly and move the
hunt to January 19th."

This is yet another example of Troskie twisitng-exagerating facts to his favor and to paint me and my family in a negative light.

I will be interestd in his promised response- no wonder it is taking him so long, he has told so many lies to so many people, he can't figure out what to say now..

Troskie has said he will respond-

So please respond Mr. Troskie:

Where are my Namibia trophies?

Why do you continue to splash my face and the face of my relatives all over your website if I am such an anathema to you as a client?

Damn! This is great. I lost my score card, so forgot who is the good guy and who is the bad guy.
Accusations, he's a queer, he's a drunk, he's a crook. he's a limey.
The only thing we need now is for the lawyer Chester "whats his name" Esq. to inject a threat of a law suit!
My TV is broke so I can't watch Oprah or Jerry Springer. This is much better.
Keep her going boys, it's great!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

just as long as you don't make Mark and I drink bloody brandy!

Only if you can behave yourselves

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:
Only if you can behave yourselves

Hmmmm......... don't know about Mark, but I'm not sure I can guarantee that!

Actually buddy, a trip to Jo'burg would be very handy to me as I've got my beady eye on a classic 82 Laverda and it'd give me an excuse to go look at it without getting it in the ear from Mama!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:
Only if you can behave yourselves

Hmmmm......... don't know about Mark, but I'm not sure I can guarantee that!

Actually buddy, a trip to Jo'burg would be very handy to me as I've got my beady eye on a classic 82 Laverda and it'd give me an excuse to go look at it without getting it in the ear from Mama!!!!!

When should I expect you?

Why not see when Mark can make it and assuming we're not in the bush, we'll be there!

We'll be spending more time at home this year and letting the other guys do more hunting because as you know we're working on something else over the next few months.......

I'm not in a rush to pick up the Laverda as I'll have to ride it home and it'll be bloody cold at the moment!!!!

Now this is the fourth page of this topic ...... I think it is coming the time when your assistants take the agreements for the duel ...... choose the place, the guns, I suggest a big caliber rifle, the distance, etc.etc., make the assistants take pictures and films of the duel, invite the audience, because the forum need also this kind of fuel, and .............. maybe the topic will sweetly die.

quote:

Posted 11 June 2008 06:27 Hide Post
Hot Damn! I just wish that I could lock you all up together and sell tickets..

Yup i can just see the fight now. 2 punches w/ pillows and then settle down in neutral corners for 30 minutes of verbal abuse

Hi Steve. Are we talking laverda jota here. Cos if so it was the bike of my dreams. All the best with that.

Have you been flatdog fishing recently.

Grant.

It's the model they made after the Jota which was supposed to rectifly the small faults the Jota had such as dodgy electrics and is called the 1000 RGS. - This is a pic of the one I'm after and it was made in 1982.

Haven't had a chance to go after the flatties as we're too busy, which is a pain in the ass..... maybe later this year!

Actually I do believe it would be a dust up worth watching.
I would bet that at least a couple of these fellows still has quite a bit of bark still left on.
If they are anything like the men I grew up with here in Az that live outside and do the dangerous deeds they are nobody to F with.
I would be that Africa is no different in that regard..

Many issues have been raised and as I have practically been hunting non-stop since the end of April I have not had time to read this thread regularly or respond to the various issues raised.

Let me firstly repeat one of my initial statements namely that it was never my intention to have AR members play jury in this matter. The first time I learnt of 404’s issues was in an email to me dated 7th May (only read by me on May 13th) wherein he raised a personal issue – completely unrelated to hunting. Quite frankly; I was neither impressed with the tone of his email – nor with the content thereof and I replied in a manner I deemed appropriate. Only then did he start raising issues pertaining to hunting with me, insulting me and my wife and threatening that he would see to it that I would never book a hunt on AR again. He followed up on his threat by privately writing to AR members who had contacted me in the past and enquired about hunting with me. As I was not privy to the contents of his private correspondence I initially wrote privately to the members whom I suspected he would write to and offered to share my side of the issue with them. I did so only after I received the email from 404 on May 14th and up to May 13th had no idea that he was unsatisfied with the outcome of his hunt which ended on May 1st.

404 opted to make public some of the private email correspondence between the two of us (Jaco Human) and I know that he still has more of these in his arsenal… such as me writing to him about personal issues between my (then) future wife and I; me asking him to help me out with money etc… Maybe he will also post these – maybe not… But at the end of the day I believe that all this proves is that we indeed used to be friends… This reinforces my original point that the issue between 404 and I is one of a personal nature and has NOTHING to do with hunting or my ability to put a quality hunt together.

I publicly and unequivocally offer my apologies to Jaco Human… We did indeed have issues between us but thankfully we managed to resolve our issues man-to-man and in an adult manner…

Below I have also quoted from private correspondence between myself and 404 – not with the intention of smearing him as he is doing now in an attempt to discredit me (believe me – had I wanted to do that I have more than enough ammo for that) but purely to bring across my point on relevant issues…

Herewith then my asked for response to the relevant issues raised by 404:

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
I do think the claim that I

-stopped at the pharmacy to buy eyeliner and makeup is pretty desperate. I have not, nor will I ever, buy make up. Pretty sordid Troskie, though it did provide a lot of entertainment for others, apparently. Just an out and out fabrication ie a lie.

BTW I don't see any claim that I used "mascara" on a hunt- and what the hell does one do with make up on a hunt---and why buy it- if one uses it, bring it...etc. Like most BS, any examination of it and it fails on its own merits as being truthful.

This is a typical answer from a lawyer / former prosecutor that 404 indeed is… using terms such as “Examination of the facts…â€

quote:

As to hiding things from my wife...? What was I doing with whatever he alleges on a hunt that I would hide from my wife? He wants readers to believe I use mascara but only on hunts, I don’t want to carry it home? Why not just throw it away? Bizarre.

Again – a typical answer from a lawyer… I don’t know where 404 stores his makeup back home… all I know is that he asked me to hang on to it or dispose of it as I saw fit. According to him, he did not want to dispose of his makeup in my trash can at home as he didn’t want my former girlfriend finding it and questioning me about it. He and I knows the truth… and HE is the one who has to live with it…

quote:

Also internally inconsistent, that I like to visit “titty bars†but I “don’t like women� As I recall, we visited a “titty bar†twice, at his request, when he was a guest in my home in San Diego, after I paid for his ticket to come out from the east coast, as he said he was short of funds, and he fell in love with a young Latina and got several dances with her…..And? He can do what he wants, I suppose….

Yes, and for THIS reason I would bring the issue of titty bars up… Again he knows the truth… and has to live with it…

quote:

Hmmm. The issue about the cook/prostitute came up because it was on our last hunt that Troskie told me she was a working prostitute, that he had a lot of “fun†with her, and that some rich guy bought her a malt shop in EllisRas (sp?) blah blah…I was pretty shocked that he would bring a prostitute on a hunt, then have me meet his girlfriend, live in, Zenna, for lunch and ask me not to mention Charmaine as Zenna would be unjustifiably jealous. I consider this low behavior, and Troskie apparently thinks it is fine, with a live in girlfriend, and I am the one who is not a gentleman or a “man�

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense for me to suddenly remember that the cook was a prostitute – what – 2 years later???

If I’m not mistaking 404 contradicts himself a little over here… One the one hand he claims that he only learnt my cook was a prostitute during our last hunt – little over a month ago… On the other hand he claims that he found my “asking him not to mention anything about my cook to my ex-girlfriend lowly behaviour…†So when did this “lunch with my ex-girlfriend†take place? Last month??? My wife and I have been together since January ’07 and the only lunch 404 and I ever had together with my ex-girlfriend was during his 2nd hunt with me in January ’06 – before either him or I had even met the cook!!! So when exactly did he start finding my behaviour lowly??? Back in January ’06 when I made this so-called “request for confidentiality�

Anyway… some girls go with men because the men buy them malt shops… some woman MARRY men because men buy them Mercedes’s and offer them an escape from the circumstances… Whether that makes them prostitutes??? I don’t know… 404 would probably know better…

quote:

Let me say now about not “confronting him†about my concerns- I was dependent on him for transportation from his residence to the airport, and would not put it past him to refuse to transport me. He often told me of his buddy Piet who, when he felt slighted by a client, instead drove the client to a black township and unloaded his baggage and told him he was on his own…I did not want him to pull I this with me.

Really? So why not place a stop on the cheque he issued me? As I recall the events the lady from Waterberg Transfers (a very reputable transfer company) was sitting waiting for 404 as he wrote out the cheque… What was he thinking? That SHE – a 25 something year old lady would drive into a black township to leave him there??? Why does this remind me so much about an issue with Boet Nel? Didn’t he also threaten to leave someone in camp? It seems this “councillor†is sticking to the same approach to justify himself over and over again…

quote:

My statements to him, in a private email, which he now wants to publicly air about his wife stem from the fact that I specifically wrote him and asked that she not come. It was not until she climbed into the back of the truck as we were leaving that I was aware she was going, and I just let it pass. He did point out a reference to her cooking one night in an earlier email, but I missed this, but there is no issue that I wrote that she not come and he wrote back that she would not.

Maybe 404 would like to share a copy of the email wherein he “specifically asked that my wife should not go with.†The concrete evidence thus far indicates that he was in receipt of a mail from me well in advance stating that my wife would be doing the cooking… (Which 404 claims to have missed) And seeing that we’re “examining the facts here†the rest is pure speculation… Anyway; as I recall the events we were discussing the trip up to Botswana (all three of us) during dinner which my wife had prepared and which 404 commented on as being “very tasty†so the statement that he only learnt she is coming with when she got into the truck is incorrect…

quote:

I do think his wife is a bit odd, and..so what? Please don’t put me in the position to like or dislike your wife, on a hunt that I am paying for-thank you. I did not going on the hunt to spend time with “the Troskies†am I ? I went to hunt, and if I think my hunt was diminished by the presence of your wife, your dinner table arguments, her odd conversation, then isn’t that my right and my prerogative as paying client?

Why does this remind me of the Boet Nel incident again??? Didn’t Boet and his wife argue as well according to 404? It seems that everyone seems to be arguing with their wives when 404 is around… Wonder when my wife or I are going to be accused of excessive drinking as well… The short and sweet of things are that everyone has the prerogative to like or dislike my wife but NO ONE – whether they are paying customers or not can claim to have the prerogative of insulting her.

quote:

I did write to some individuals upon my return, because Troskie had provided my name as a reference for them and in one case, specifically recommending the Tuli block hunt. For some odd reason Troskie cc'd me on a "sales" email for the client. The email contained some exaggerations and out and out falsehoods.I am using the landowner’s computer and cannot easily access the email, but will post it in its entirety when I return. In particular, Troskie wrote that he had been hunting the Tuli property for three years, when I in fact was the first person he had guided or hunted the proty with. Period- absolute lie in furtherance of a booking.

This is an excerpt of the email that 404 is referring to as written to an AR member:

Heading straight into your questions.

Hunting:

200 yard shots will be very unlikely in Tuli - expect shots of between 60 and 100. The area I hunt borders the Limpopo River and is just across the border from Limpopo Province so the vegetation is pretty much the same as that here by us. In fact; my Tuli concession is less than a 2 hour drive from our ranch. For the type of hunt you are looking for I couldn't think about a better area to hunt. The species on your wish list occur there; the game is plentiful and the area is big enough for you not to see any fences while hunting. The other advantage is that there is no need for expensive air charters (which could take a huge chunk out of your hunting money) as Tuli is within easy reach (5 hours) from Johannesburg Airport. I can honestly say that my camp in Tuli is as close you can get to the "real" African hunting experience you'll find in Tanzania / Mozambique you can get for a heck less money.

There is NO shooting from the vehicle and I'm not a fan of shooting at waterholes either so we're on the same page there.

Accommodations:

Accommodation is offered in "Hemmingway-style" safari tents with bathrooms comprising of a shower, basin and lavatory en-suite. Erected next to a dry riverbed, the tents are not luxurious but they have all the conveniences you would require to make your stay comfortable and still get the real African feel. The only "negative" is that you won't be eating spam sandwiches. Between Sabina (my wife) and Charlotte (the landowner's wife) you are guaranteed to feast on excellent food and probably gain a few pounds in weight.

I've been hunting this area for the last three years - but I used to do so in a freelance capacity for another outfitter who used to have sole hunting rights on the property. At the end of last year I was fortunate enough to obtain hunting rights of my own from the owner - hence my statement that this is a "new" addition to my hunting areas. I hunt with all my clients myself (unless in the event of group bookings when I have no alternative other than using extra PH's) so - should you decide to book with me you will unfortunately be stuck with me. Yes; I do indeed hunt both Tuli and Limpopo at the "same" time. See; because my reputation important to me; I only take as many clients as what I can comfortably handle per year (typically not more than 35) - so whether we hunt Limpopo, Tuli, Natal or North-West Province I am personally involved in every hunt. BTW I am off to Tuli on Friday to hunt plains game and a PAC elephant with AR member (404WJJeffrey) so if you need a US reference for the area I'm sure he'd be happy to give you one after his return.â€

Clearly I wrote that I have been hunting “the area†for the past 3 years – which is a fact. I did not state that I have been hunting “the property†for 3 years and was referring to the general Tuli area which comprises of several 100’s of Thousands of acres.

quote:

I wrote to another board member because Troskie told me the AR person was thinking of bringing his wife and family to hunt on Troskie’s “ranch’ and since I liked this board member, I reported exactly what I saw. Readers can be the judge- Troskie lives on a parcel that is 210 acres. Period- and a fact. It is, to my observation, surrounded by other such small parcels. With all the fences, cattle and people around, I don’t know how he can offer hunts on such a small parcel, especially since it is bisected by a well traveled road. Troskie, can you respond and/or refute this? I think you intend to drive your clients from your place to others in the area, which is fine, but from what I have seen as your promotion of it, I think it is inaccurate.

What 404 saw of our ranch was a 6 mile stretch of dirt road leading through my neighbour’s 10,000 acre property to ours. He also saw the chalet he slept in (free of charge) and our house itself. How he came to the conclusion that we live on a “parcel of land of 210 acres†I don’t know – because according to my calculations 175 hectares does not convert to 210 acres… This is how I “promoted†our ranch to the “AR person†via pvt email: He hasn’t posted on this topic and as such is not part of this conversation but I’m sure he will recall me telling him during a telephone conversation that our own ranch is not big and I’m predominately hunting on my neighbour’s property:

• Of course you cannot compare ranch hunting to hunting in the Selous or Massailand but it is possible to hunt SA on foot nevertheless and still enjoy a wonderful and satisfying hunting experience.
• Allow me to tell you a bit about my outfit and the areas I hunt…

o My own company is only 3 years old now and needless to say it is small when compared to the guys who have been in the business for donkey’s years. But being small has its advantages – such as being able to personally oversee every hunt that I book and most importantly HUNT WITH MY CLIENTS MYSELF. You see, I didn’t choose this profession for the money (If I were into it for the money I should’ve stayed out of it). I chose becoming a PH because I love hunting and while some of the “big guys†prefer to sit back and relax, counting the money their PH’s are earning for them I prefer to be out there in the bush with my clients and hunt with them.
o Life has been good for me and in May this year, Sabina and I were fortunate enough buy our own ranch near Lephalale (Ellisras). Our ranch is situated on the Mogol River and located in one of the most picturesque areas in the Limpopo Province. We named the ranch SABRISA – using letters from Sabina’s (SABINA) my own (CHRIS) and my daughter (ASHLEY)’s names.

• Apart from being picturesque; the mountains next to the Mogol are also renowned for the free ranging Kudu, Bushbuck, Klipspringer, Mountain Reedbuck, Warthog and Bushpig that occur in the area. I hunt on our own ranch as well as that of my next-door neighbour and with the exception of two game fences and some old cattle fencing on the neighbour’s part, the property is unfenced so wild animals are free to come and go as they like.
• For the most part, hunting for Kudu, Klipspringer and Mountain Reedbuck takes place in the mountains and as there are very few roads into the mountains, we hunt up there on foot. So in answer to your question: YES, we can hunt on foot directly from camp. In fact, we don’t have much of an alternative. So this does make for a challenging hunt (I’m glad to hear you’re staying in shape) yet a very satisfying one…
• For species – other than the ones I mentioned above – I hunt on other concessions which are within a 30 minute radius from our property. These areas are game fenced but are large enough to hunt for days in a row (especially if done so on foot) without seeing the same landmarks over and over again.


Were exactly the misrepresentation part came in I don’t know. Yes, my neighbour has cattle (which 404 would have seen en route to our ranch) but for the most part his cattle pretty much stick to the open areas and NOT in the mountains where we hunt. 404 NEVER saw the mountains or where I hunt… ALL he saw was the dirt road and my house. Interesting also that the same 404 was interested in purchasing a share in what he now calls our “hovel†a year ago…

quote:

Yes, I did hunt with Troskie a lot, though of the 8 3-4 were hunts lasting 3-4 days and were tacked on to business trips to RSA. I considered him a warm friend, and I think turned a blind eye, and sort of kept buying his explanations of things, until it sort of reached the breaking point and I caught him in several out and out lies.

Lets see…

January 5th thru January 15th ’06 = 11 days
January 24th thru January 30th ’06 = 7 days
March 16th thru March 26th ’06 = 11 days
July ’06 – 404 cut his leopard hunt short to join me and my family for 4 days of hunting in Natal
August 15th thru August 24th ’06 = 9 days
October 9th thru October 17th ’06 = 9 days
May 10th thru May 18th ’07 = 9 days
April 24th thru May 1st ’08 = 8 days

Not sure where the “3 – 4 days tacked onto business†comes in…

quote:

I found this PH’s email upon my return, and he wrote me that Troskie told him it was a “management†hunt and that I did not want the trophies, and further that I Troskie did not pay the Namibian PH enough money for a trophy hunt. All of this was news to me, despite over a year of inquiries. I received several emails from the Namibian PH that were not consistent with what Troskie told me and to the effect that the Nakbian PH would never have anything to do with Troskie again. So where are my trophies Troskie- it has been a year and a hlf. PLEASE RESPOND HERE as you brought this to the board- and no “make up†excuses please.

Yeah, and that’s why the PH, his girlfriend, my wife and I were having dinner together a couple of months ago… talking about future hunting opportunities… It is perfectly possible though that he may not want to talk with me anymore – especially as 404 decided to get in touch with him and told him that he had left a $1,000 tip with me to pay over to him… which is absolute BS... 404 left a tip of in the region of around $1,200 with me which he gave me a written mandate for to split whichever way I deemed appropriate. I wrote him back and said that I had already shared the proceeds of the hunt with the PH and intended using the tip to make the hunt work for me financially as well. After settling 404’s hotel bill in Pretoria which he told me he had paid when I picked him up from the hotel but he had in fact not, there was not much left of “my†proceeds. For this reason I “kept†the tip for myself and advised 404 accordingly. He wrote back and said that this was in order with him…

Facts are that 404 invited me to join him on a cull hunt in the Kalahari – an invite which I politely declined… I offered to put something similar together for him in Namibia in place of the Kalahari hunt which he agreed to. The Namibian hunt started off as a non-trophy hunt but 404 got some nice animals and the Namibian PH asked 404 how he would like to have the trophies prepared… Granted; this may have brought 404 under the impression that the trophies were exportable… but this can hardly be blamed on me… The first time I learned of 404’s intentions to have the trophies exported was in May last year during yet another one of his tantrums via email. I told him I’ll get in touch with the Namibian PH and find out what he has to say. The PH responded by stating that the hunt was not priced as a trophy hunt from the outset and that additional charges would be payable to have the trophies exported. I requested the PH to get in touch with 404 in this regard and seeing that I did not hear from 404 or have any enquiries regarding his trophies for another full year I assumed the matter had been resolved between him and the Namibian PH. In fact later that same month 404 and his brother hunted with me again and never mentioned the Namibian trophies…

BTW, here’s an excerpt from my email to 404 when I “sold†the Namibian hunt to him:

I’ll be upfront and say that I can’t offer you a similar deal to the one you can get in the Kalahari and I will understand if you opted to rather take that deal. Thing is that if I opted to join you on the management hunt in the Kalahari, I won’t be earning an income from Piet which amounts to around $150pd and given my upcoming expenses with my US trip, I can’t really afford to do this even though I’d hunt for free with you in the Kalahari.

Trophy Prices:

Gemsbok - $400.00
Hartebeest - $500.00
Kudu - $600.00
Springbok - $250.00
Zebra - $600.00

There aren’t any management (female) animals available to hunt at the place where I can get us into in Namibia as all the animals are carrying babies at present. I have to admit that I find it a little strange that the place in the Kalahari is taking off female animals at this late time of year but I guess they have their reasons.

Either way, please let me know what you want to do as I need to confirm with the landowner whether we’re going up there or not and I’ll have to get the air tickets booked as well.

Looking at the prices 404 was quoted for his Namibian hunt and what Trophy Fees(even in Namibia) run at; CLEARLY these prices could not have been quoted for exportable “Trophy Animalsâ€. 404 was well aware of this fact.

quote:

And if I was such an oddball, why is Trokie’s site basically covered with me and my animals. I should total up what I have spent with him, but I think it is well north of $100,000

Simple… my site is “covered with 404 and his animals†because I was the one who guided him to those animals and I am in possession of 7 signed indemnity forms from 404 wherein he gave me permission to use photographs taken during SEVEN of his EIGHT hunts with me for promotional purposes… The pictures are certainly not there to show HIM off but indeed to show OTHER potential CLIENTS the quality of trophies hunted with me in the past.

quote:

Third- the BS about the kudu I shot and its size. He sort of sheepishly offered to let me shoot a “bigger†one and he would only charge me $800 for the first one. Why not step up and say he made a mistake in judging its size. After this incident the next few days until the end of the hunt were the bare minimum of communication and me leaving after the last bite of dinner, unless the landowner was with us, whose company I enjoyed. I did specify 55 or better on a kudu. BTW yesterday, I chose one myself and got him ….54 ½….

Oh, so there are actually Kudu bigger than 47†on the property! According to my information 404 wrote to ANOTHER AR member privately that he never saw any quality animals… Anyway; I also find it odd that he chose to shoot the “immature†47†kudu with me if he is so good at judging trophies… being able to “pick†his 54 ½†kudu himself…

quote:

Fourth- I did book a hunt with him for my son and I. We first hunted on a cull hunt in Limpopo with another PH, and my son was ill in bed for parts of every day of the hunt, hunting very little and very ill. He was not homesick, he was ill. I went on my last hunt alone with Troskie because he said he would not refund any of the approximately $6500 deposit I paid him, but that I could apply it toward a future hunt. I did so begrudgingly. I thought this was unreasonable and asked other PHs who told me they in similar circumstances, would have been more accommodation. So He had daily rates of $700 per day from me for 7 days, plus permits etc. He then insisted on charging me an additional $75 per day booking fee for the re-book, including 4 rifle permits at $150 per permit, which he apologized for and said he was out of pocket this amount. I learned while I was on the Tuli hunt that the permits only cost $50- and I was pissed that I was, in my opinion, being nickeled and dimed.

Troskie states that he bent over backwards to book me a replacement hunt- was he doing me a favor—or was he doing it to earn his living?

404 was quoted $150 per rifle permit and was happy to pay it. I do not ask merchants what they pay for their merchandise before agreeing to buy it… If the price I am quoted seems fair I pay it – period. And if I learn later that the merchant made a profit of 10, 20 or 100% on my purchase I cannot blame him for it. I have responded about the issue of charging $75 per day for the replacement hunt to Russ Gould. Fact is that I was under NO obligation to offer him ANYTHING. Yes; 404 did initially tell me that his son was not feeling well… This was 2 days before the hunt was supposed to have commenced and at the same time that he asked me to change the soft drinks I had already purchased for fruit juice… The following day he told me his son was missing home and was lying weeping in his chalet…

quote:

Regarding other issues:

Yes, we did talk to him about a hunt at Thabana and he did reserve the property, and yes, my wife did back out at the last minute. And yes, two weeks later she decided she wanted to go to Africa. Of course, I was thrilled that she wanted to go. At this time I received the follow up email from Boet Nel saying he now had availability, so we went to Namibia. I did call Troskie while we were in the hotel for two days explaining it all and said it was too bad our original plans fell through- because I considered him a friend and kept him posted on our doings.

Interesting… sounds very similar to an explanation someone offered earlier for booking a hunt with Jaco Human and cancelling it while Jaco was en route to the client (due to “business reasonsâ€). Coincidentally the same person ended up hunting with another outfitter during the time he had originally booked with Jaco… The events as I recall them were that Jaco and I met 404 at the airport. Jaco told me that 404 had invited him to have dinner with us that evening and that the plan was for Jaco to take 404 to his hotel… When 404 met Jaco he decided there and then that he did not want to hunt with him anymore. Conveniently forgetting that he had invited Jaco for dinner; he dragged me into this stating that he and I had a business appointment and that I would be taking him to his hotel… The following morning 404 told me that he had arranged to hunt with Johan Pieterse and that he had cancelled the hunt with Jaco. He then gave me a cheque for R6,000.00 which he asked me to take to Jaco and asked me to take him to Powder Keg where Johan Pieterse picked him up. THESE ARE THE FACTS!!!

Lastly; 404 claims that I knew he was unsatisfied about the kudu and about the hunt because he queried this and I gave him $100 discount on the kudu… Please see below an excerpt from my original quote for him, his brother and his son:

Arrival (Botswana) on November 15th and departure on November 24th.

Charges:

Nov 15th (arrival) - $450.00 ($150 X 3 PAX)
Nov 16th thru Nov 23rd - $5,600.00 ($350 X 2 X 8 hunting days)
Nov 16th thru Nov 23rd - $2,000.00 ($250 X 1 X 8 observer days)
Nov 24th (departure) - $450.00 ($150 X 3 PAX)
Total - $8,500.00
VAT - $1,190.00
TOTAL - $9,690.00

Should Adam not come (I sincerely hope he will though) you can subtract $2,300 + VAT of $322 from the total so the total cost would be $7,068.00 for you and Zach only.

Good news is that Sandy offered me better Trophy Fees than what I originally quoted you on some of the animals so these would be as follows:

Bushpig - $350
Gemsbok - $1,000
Eland - $1,700
Waterbuck - $1,600
Bushbuck - $750
Kudu - $1,300
Zebra - $1,000
Wildebeest - $800
Impala - $250
Warthog - $250

……

I really don't want to stuff Sandy around and I HAVE to let him know today or tomorrow at the latest still that (if) the deposit is on its way. So if you could please send it to my SA bank account ASAP I'd appreciate it. I don't know if you use internet banking for your FNB account but I could take Rands as well and that would be the quickest way of getting the money to me. Trophy fees have to be paid in US$ though...

Seeing that 404 claimed he had to pay $1,300 for an immature kudu in the post that spurred my post - EXACTLY WHAT I HAD QUOTED HIM I'm really interested tp hear how $1,300 less $100 gets to $1,300???

I reiterate that this is a PERSONAL issue and has nothing to do with hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
There are a lot of red herrings in this thread. As I read it, the issue seems to be the hunter became disillusioned with his favorite PH over several specific events:

1. He shot 2 oryx and 2 kudu on a hunt in Namibia with this PH in 2006, and has not received the trophies. In addition, he felt that the PH let him down judging the first kudu, with which he was disappointed. It turned out to be a 47" kudu and it's still in Namibia being held hostage along with the client's other trophies. Client has received a note from the landowner in Namibia saying that he is not entitled to trophies because he did not buy a trophy hunt, but rather a management hunt. The landowner has demanded an additional $1000 PER KUDU, not clear about the other animals. The client says he bought a trophy hunt and paid (I believe) $1200 and $1300 for the two kudu, not sure what he paid for the gemsbok. This would indicate that the landowner thinks a trophy kudu is worth $2200 or $2300! The PH maintains the client was flexible as to trophy size and that he told him the kudu was mediocre before client took the shot, but he has not commented about the ransom note or the hostage situation.

Sorry Russ, You’ve got the facts wrong. The 47†kudu was hunted last month in Botswana and the other animals referred to during 2006 in Namibia. The Namibian hunt was never sold to “the client†as a trophy hunt… As a matter of facts; “the client†invited “the PH†to go with him on a cull hunt in Namibia to which “the PH†responded by saying that he could not take time off from work but that he could set “the client†up for a similar hunt – arranged by him... “The client†agreed to this and even went as far as stating in pvt correspondence that: “OK, it was just another crazy idea but I understand – you need to make some money…†The hunt turned out to be quite productive and “the client†hunted some good trophies. One year after the event “the client†wrote to "the PH" and queried the status of his "trophies".

quote:

2. The client says he was sold a hunt in Botswana that was represented as a concession hunt while it was in fact a ranch hunt. The hunt was apparently unproductive. Client says the PH continues to misrepresent the nature of the hunt as well as his experience with the area to other potential clients. The PH hasn't addressed this issue.

In South Africa we refer to hunting areas as “concessions†– whether such an area comprises as a ranch or a “concession area†on public land. Furthermore; you should know that Tuli is a area that comprises of several hundreds of thousands of acres and I have indeed been hunting the Tuli area for 3 years. This does NOT mean nor did I imply that I had been hunting this particular ranch (which is 30,000 acres in size) for 3 years. 404 was well aware of the fact that this particular ranch was a new area of mine as can be seen from an excerpt of an email to him dated 30 January 2008:

I was up there last week and have to say it is awesome! Rustic tented camp, huge hunting area and LOTS of game! Roy - the owner seems like a good guy...

quote:

3. The client had problems with "cooks" on at least two hunts. In one case, he says the cook wasn't any good at cooking, although she was apparently very good at other activities; and in the other case, the cook was the PHs wife. The client, having met her previously, specifically requested that she not be part of his hunt. However, the PH ignored that request and she came along anyway. From other postings on AR, the PH's wife has conflicted feelings about hunting. The PH doesn't disagree with these facts, as best I can tell, but he has taken umbrage at the client's email feedback to him regarding the presence and personality of his wife after the hunt.

Russ you have your facts wrong again... 404 met my wife for the first time ever on his arrival night on the 24th of April this year. 404 NEVER requested that my wife not be part of the Botswana hunt. I did indeed ask him if it would be OK for my wife to come along and take care of the cooking when he booked a hunt for him and his brother in May last year… His response was that she should rather not come – something I obliged to. During the May ’07 hunt 404 had (as usual) complaints about the black cook’s cooking abilities and when he booked the Botswana hunt he specifically asked who would be doing the cooking. My response was that my wife would be taking care of this. In a previous post 404 has already acknowledged that he received such an email although he claims he “missed itâ€. Regarding the personal insults that 404 threw at my wife - everyone is entitled to his own opinions… Yet; no one can expect to insult another person’s wife and hope it will be overlooked… A client pays me to hunt with him – NOT to have me or my wife insulted by him…

quote:

3. The client appears to have an unpredictable business/travel schedule and admits that he cancelled at least three hunts on short notice. In one case he paid the requested cancellation fee (with Jaco); in another case, when the client's wife seemed to have trouble making up her mind about her first trip to Africa, it's not clear how this was handled; the client then ended up going on a Safari with another operator in Namibia two weeks later, which offended the PH. In a third case, when the client says his son was taken ill and the PH claims his son was merely homesick, the PH kept the full prepayment for a hunt, comprised of daily rates ($700 per day x 7 days on a 2x1 hunt) plus some additional payments bringing the total to $6500, but offered to apply this amount to a future hunt. But he also charged $75 per day premium on the rebook as a "rebooking fee" and also $600 for 4 additional rifle permits for Botswana, when according to the client these permits cost $200. The client, as a major repeat customer, felt that he was owed some consideration/flexibility due to the amount of money he has spent with this PH, instead the PH was starting to nickle and dime him unfairly. The PH doesn't address these issues.

Facts Russ! “The client†cancelled a hunt with “the PH†on the pretence that his wife didn’t want to come. Meanwhile the real reason was that he got (what he thought was) a better deal in Namibia. He then ran into a “bad experience†with Boet Nel (SHORT NOTICE BOOKINGS!!!) and had the audacity to call “the PH†up and ask him to fly up to Namibia and show them around. While the “client†was hunting with “the PH†in May last year he booked a June hunt for him, his son and his brother in Mozambique. The PH does not own the concession in Mozambique and therefore has an arrangement with an outfitter up there. Three weeks before the client was due to arrive he advised that he “didn’t know†he needed a visa for Mozambique. Other clients managed in the past to get an emergency visa within 3 days… Yet this “client†claimed there was not enough time for him to get a visa and he cancelled yet another hunt… The concession owner asked for a $1,000 cancellation fee – which the client initially agreed to pay but later refused… The result was that “the PH†had to pay the cancellation fee out of his own pocket… Short notice cancellations seem to be habit of “the client†as he did the SAME with Jaco Human… So this “client†does not only believe it is his right to insult PH’s and their wives – he also thinks it is his right to cancel hunts as and when he wants…

Because the same outfitter that set “the PH†up in Mozambique previously used to set “the PH†up in Botswana; “the PH†asked for full daily rates upfront when “the client†booked the Botswana hunt – this was something that “the client†clearly agreed to as he did indeed pay the deposit over. “The PH’s†contract clearly stipulates that there are NO REFUNDS on cancelled hunts and as such was under NO obligation to either offer “the client†a replacement hunt OR a refund. “The client†had specific dietary requirements – amongst others the fact that he dislikes venison – which was part of the regular menu. This implied that the landowner had to drive for 1.5 hours to the nearest town to stock up on supplies that would meet “the client’s†requirements – amongst others fresh fruit and vegetables... Furthermore; this hunt was scheduled outside of the regular hunting season – which means that the landowner had to especially have his farm hands stay on = incurring cost… “The PH†also had to incur cost of his own… like booking his own time, making international phone calls etc… being phoned 2 days before the hunt and be advised of “new†beverage preferences – just to be called a day later and be told: “sorry we’re not coming as my son is lying in his room weeping because he’s missing home…†Regarding the $150 importation fee… any business transaction comprises of: 1.) a willing seller and 2.) a willing buyer… I don’t ask you how much you pay for the product you sell and if the price you charge me sounds right to me I will pay it… The same applies here. Whether I get the importation permits for free, whether I add a 10% margin or a 150% margin is irrelevant. As things were this “client†was quoted $1,300 TF on a Kudu that normally sells for $1,600…

quote:

The parties became disillusioned with each other as a result of these events, and the client, who had initially been a strong reference for the PH, began to provide negative testimonials instead of the expected praise, and apparently also withdrew or revised testimonials he had provided in the past.

The parties did not become disillusioned with each other because of the events as you described them… One party became aggrieved with another party because of a personal issue that has nothing to do with hunting whatsoever… He then threatened to destroy the other party’s reputation and put action to his words by writing privately to certain members of this board without giving the other party an opportunity to respond... The first party also severely insulted the other party’s wife – which he was offended by.

quote:

This then culminated when the client mentioned kudu incident (without mentioning names) on another thread, causing the PH to tell his side of the story in this thread. This then led to a major piling on by others. Unfortunately, in three pages of derogatory and mostly irrelevant postings, the key issues outlined above have not been addressed by the PH.

Russ, over and above the informative value of this forum, one of the reasons we post here is because we’re hoping clients will consider booking with us… and I honestly wish you all success with your endeavours… During 404’s “disaster hunt†he told me that he had previously been talking to you about hunting Botswana… Maybe you’ll book him – maybe not… and if you do… I wish you LOTS of success… Who knows? MAYBE we’ll be reading a similar thread here on AR in 2 years time… maybe not… just be sure not to leave 404 alone at the campfire for as long it takes to get him another beer...

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:
Many issues have been raised and as I have practically been hunting non-stop since the end of April I have not had time to read this thread regularly or respond to the various issues raised.

Let me firstly repeat one of my initial statements namely that it was never my intention to have AR members play jury in this matter. The first time I learnt of 404’s issues was in an email to me dated 7th May (only read by me on May 13th) wherein he raised a personal issue – completely unrelated to hunting. Quite frankly; I was neither impressed with the tone of his email – nor with the content thereof and I replied in a manner I deemed appropriate. Only then did he start raising issues pertaining to hunting with me, insulting me and my wife and threatening that he would see to it that I would never book a hunt on AR again.


May I ask since you are so adept at cutting and pasting emails that you show where I made this threat. I did say "Good luck booking hunts on AR", with no HAHA after, as you previously posted, as you have told me many times this is basically your only means of bookings, which I was referring to in the general theme that in my opinion you are a bit of a loser, and you have told me many times you are struggling to make it.


He followed up on his threat by privately writing to AR members who had contacted me in the past and enquired about hunting with me. As I was not privy to the contents of his private correspondence I initially wrote privately to the members whom I suspected he would write to and offered to share my side of the issue with them. I did so only after I received the email from 404 on May 14th and up to May 13th had no idea that he was unsatisfied with the outcome of his hunt which ended on May 1st.

I have already addressed who I wrote and why....I think Troskie has done far more harm to himself by beginning this thread than he would have otherwise incurred- as he said he is free to write everyone, as he did (everyone being 2 people, to ask to present his side of the story).

404 opted to make public some of the private email correspondence between the two of us (Jaco Human) and I know that he still has more of these in his arsenal… such as me writing to him about personal issues between my (then) future wife and I; me asking him to help me out with money etc… Maybe he will also post these – maybe not… But at the end of the day I believe that all this proves is that we indeed used to be friends… This reinforces my original point that the issue between 404 and I is one of a personal nature and has NOTHING to do with hunting or my ability to put a quality hunt together.

OK fair enough- and by this logic, the issues you raised about me apparently were not important enough to mention before--ie make up-- do you have many friends, with whom you share details of your marriage, business, girlfriends etc. THAT WEAR MAKE UP, or AM I SPECIAL??? or is it BS? This is so rich I have to hit it again.. "Used to be friends"...but I am such an oddball, I mean make up cosmetics..is this your normal type of friend? Or are you lying about the make-up there Troskie?

No it is only relevant in that I wrote you that, based upon our interactions- rocking up in the US without money for plane tickets and borrowing from me, asking to borrow money from me for your wedding or at least around your wedding - and hence the basic Go Fuck Yourself email I sent you- mostly personal, which you took offense to and which YOU began writing about on this public bard...DUMB MOVE

I publicly and unequivocally offer my apologies to Jaco Human… We did indeed have issues between us but thankfully we managed to resolve our issues man-to-man and in an adult manner…

Below I have also quoted from private correspondence between myself and 404 – not with the intention of smearing him as he is doing now in an attempt to discredit me (believe me – had I wanted to do that I have more than enough ammo for that) but purely to bring across my point on relevant issues…

It seems a little late to talk about not writing with the intention of "smearing me" else why the complete lies about "make-up on safari- BTW any proof? Or logically, do you think the make up was "special for you"? How bout some photos of me with mascara? You are an out and out fabricator and liar on this topic.

Herewith then my asked for response to the relevant issues raised by 404:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
I do think the claim that I

-stopped at the pharmacy to buy eyeliner and makeup is pretty desperate. I have not, nor will I ever, buy make up. Pretty sordid Troskie, though it did provide a lot of entertainment for others, apparently. Just an out and out fabrication ie a lie.

BTW I don't see any claim that I used "mascara" on a hunt- and what the hell does one do with make up on a hunt---and why buy it- if one uses it, bring it...etc. Like most BS, any examination of it and it fails on its own merits as being truthful.

This is a typical answer from a lawyer / former prosecutor that 404 indeed is… using terms such as “Examination of the facts…â€

I am sorry you hold it against me that I respond to your smears in a logical and even manner. It is usually the best way to direct the argument toward the truth. I am afraid you have reasoned in your mouse-mind that your claims about make-up really didn't add up, so you just say my response is....too clever...too "lawyerly"?

quote:

As to hiding things from my wife...? What was I doing with whatever he alleges on a hunt that I would hide from my wife? He wants readers to believe I use mascara but only on hunts, I don’t want to carry it home? Why not just throw it away? Bizarre.

Again – a typical answer from a lawyer… I don’t know where 404 stores his makeup back home… all I know is that he asked me to hang on to it or dispose of it as I saw fit. According to him, he did not want to dispose of his makeup in my trash can at home as he didn’t want my former girlfriend finding it and questioning me about it. He and I knows the truth… and HE is the one who has to live with it…

This will be fun. Tell ya what, go ahead and PM me Zenna's contact information, and I will cal lher and ask her to verify this- and I will post her response- fair enough?? If it is too much trouble, I still have your old address so I can just contact her myself, if you like...

SUPER- give us a list of the "make-up" you saw please....eyeliner, rogue- and oh by the way what shade would that be?

quote:

Also internally inconsistent, that I like to visit “titty bars†but I “don’t like women� As I recall, we visited a “titty bar†twice, at his request, when he was a guest in my home in San Diego, after I paid for his ticket to come out from the east coast, as he said he was short of funds, and he fell in love with a young Latina and got several dances with her…..And? He can do what he wants, I suppose….

Yes, and for THIS reason I would bring the issue of titty bars up… Again he knows the truth… and has to live with it…

Again with the titty bars.....BTW what shade of rogue did I wear in the darkly lit titty bar, if you recall..?

quote:

Hmmm. The issue about the cook/prostitute came up because it was on our last hunt that Troskie told me she was a working prostitute, that he had a lot of “fun†with her, and that some rich guy bought her a malt shop in EllisRas (sp?) blah blah…I was pretty shocked that he would bring a prostitute on a hunt, then have me meet his girlfriend, live in, Zenna, for lunch and ask me not to mention Charmaine as Zenna would be unjustifiably jealous. I consider this low behavior, and Troskie apparently thinks it is fine, with a live in girlfriend, and I am the one who is not a gentleman or a “man�

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense for me to suddenly remember that the cook was a prostitute – what – 2 years later???

If I’m not mistaking 404 contradicts himself a little over here… One the one hand he claims that he only learnt my cook was a prostitute during our last hunt – little over a month ago… On the other hand he claims that he found my “asking him not to mention anything about my cook to my ex-girlfriend lowly behaviour…†So when did this “lunch with my ex-girlfriend†take place? Last month??? My wife and I have been together since January ’07 and the only lunch 404 and I ever had together with my ex-girlfriend was during his 2nd hunt with me in January ’06 – before either him or I had even met the cook!!! So when exactly did he start finding my behaviour lowly??? Back in January ’06 when I made this so-called “request for confidentiality�

Hmmmm. The distinction is you were sleeping with a gal in camp while then asking me not to mention it to Zenna. Then later you tell me she was a hooker- don't know if you paid her yourself or just "charmed" your way to her heart, but I do think it is in poor taste, and not very "gentlemanly". BTW what has happened to all the talk of "manly" and "gentlemanly" behavior you originally led with?

Anyway… some girls go with men because the men buy them malt shops… some woman MARRY men because men buy them Mercedes’s and offer them an escape from the circumstances… Whether that makes them prostitutes??? I don’t know… 404 would probably know better…

quote:

Let me say now about not “confronting him†about my concerns- I was dependent on him for transportation from his residence to the airport, and would not put it past him to refuse to transport me. He often told me of his buddy Piet who, when he felt slighted by a client, instead drove the client to a black township and unloaded his baggage and told him he was on his own…I did not want him to pull I this with me.

Really? So why not place a stop on the cheque he issued me? As I recall the events the lady from Waterberg Transfers (a very reputable transfer company) was sitting waiting for 404 as he wrote out the cheque… What was he thinking? That SHE – a 25 something year old lady would drive into a black township to leave him there??? Why does this remind me so much about an issue with Boet Nel? Didn’t he also threaten to leave someone in camp? It seems this “councillor†is sticking to the same approach to justify himself over and over again…

Why not put a stop payment on the check...the thought occurred to me but I only had enough time to get to the airport- I did consider it, also I admit I perhaps was thinking pay this clown and be done with him, that is until the rest came to light. And BTW you mis-spelled counselor...

quote:

My statements to him, in a private email, which he now wants to publicly air about his wife stem from the fact that I specifically wrote him and asked that she not come. It was not until she climbed into the back of the truck as we were leaving that I was aware she was going, and I just let it pass. He did point out a reference to her cooking one night in an earlier email, but I missed this, but there is no issue that I wrote that she not come and he wrote back that she would not.

Maybe 404 would like to share a copy of the email wherein he “specifically asked that my wife should not go with.†The concrete evidence thus far indicates that he was in receipt of a mail from me well in advance stating that my wife would be doing the cooking… (Which 404 claims to have missed) And seeing that we’re “examining the facts here†the rest is pure speculation… Anyway; as I recall the events we were discussing the trip up to Botswana (all three of us) during dinner which my wife had prepared and which 404 commented on as being “very tasty†so the statement that he only learnt she is coming with when she got into the truck is incorrect…

quote:

I do think his wife is a bit odd, and..so what? Please don’t put me in the position to like or dislike your wife, on a hunt that I am paying for-thank you. I did not going on the hunt to spend time with “the Troskies†am I ? I went to hunt, and if I think my hunt was diminished by the presence of your wife, your dinner table arguments, her odd conversation, then isn’t that my right and my prerogative as paying client?

Why does this remind me of the Boet Nel incident again??? Didn’t Boet and his wife argue as well according to 404? It seems that everyone seems to be arguing with their wives when 404 is around… Wonder when my wife or I are going to be accused of excessive drinking as well… The short and sweet of things are that everyone has the prerogative to like or dislike my wife but NO ONE – whether they are paying customers or not can claim to have the prerogative of insulting her.

Yes, he did, and yes you did. I guess you "forget" that your wife, at the dinner table, launched into telling us that she and your 11 year old had a conversation where your wife stated she offered the chalet to your daughter and her boyfriend for their first time together, and you protested, argued, and she hit you in the face at the dinner table. Did you forget when you had her drive and she stalled the truck, you, I thought, fairly patiently told her what to do, and when she couldn't do it, replaced her, and she pouted, pulled away from you etc. in anger- which lasted about 30 minutes. Why do I as a client have to put up with this stuff???

quote:

I did write to some individuals upon my return, because Troskie had provided my name as a reference for them and in one case, specifically recommending the Tuli block hunt. For some odd reason Troskie cc'd me on a "sales" email for the client. The email contained some exaggerations and out and out falsehoods.I am using the landowner’s computer and cannot easily access the email, but will post it in its entirety when I return. In particular, Troskie wrote that he had been hunting the Tuli property for three years, when I in fact was the first person he had guided or hunted the property with. Period- absolute lie in furtherance of a booking.

This is an excerpt of the email that 404 is referring to as written to an AR member:

Heading straight into your questions.

Hunting:

200 yard shots will be very unlikely in Tuli - expect shots of between 60 and 100. The area I hunt borders the Limpopo River and is just across the border from Limpopo Province so the vegetation is pretty much the same as that here by us. In fact; my Tuli concession is less than a 2 hour drive from our ranch. For the type of hunt you are looking for I couldn't think about a better area to hunt. The species on your wish list occur there; the game is plentiful and the area is big enough for you not to see any fences while hunting. The other advantage is that there is no need for expensive air charters (which could take a huge chunk out of your hunting money) as Tuli is within easy reach (5 hours) from Johannesburg Airport. I can honestly say that my camp in Tuli is as close you can get to the "real" African hunting experience you'll find in Tanzania / Mozambique you can get for a heck less money.

There is NO shooting from the vehicle and I'm not a fan of shooting at waterholes either so we're on the same page there.

Accommodations:

Accommodation is offered in "Hemmingway-style" safari tents with bathrooms comprising of a shower, basin and lavatory en-suite. Erected next to a dry riverbed, the tents are not luxurious but they have all the conveniences you would require to make your stay comfortable and still get the real African feel. The only "negative" is that you won't be eating spam sandwiches. Between Sabina (my wife) and Charlotte (the landowner's wife) you are guaranteed to feast on excellent food and probably gain a few pounds in weight.

I've been hunting this area for the last three years - but I used to do so in a freelance capacity for another outfitter who used to have sole hunting rights on the property. At the end of last year I was fortunate enough to obtain hunting rights of my own from the owner - hence my statement that this is a "new" addition to my hunting areas. I hunt with all my clients myself (unless in the event of group bookings when I have no alternative other than using extra PH's) so - should you decide to book with me you will unfortunately be stuck with me. Yes; I do indeed hunt both Tuli and Limpopo at the "same" time. See; because my reputation important to me; I only take as many clients as what I can comfortably handle per year (typically not more than 35) - so whether we hunt Limpopo, Tuli, Natal or North-West Province I am personally involved in every hunt. BTW I am off to Tuli on Friday to hunt plains game and a PAC elephant with AR member (404WJJeffrey) so if you need a US reference for the area I'm sure he'd be happy to give you one after his return.â€

Clearly I wrote that I have been hunting “the area†for the past 3 years – which is a fact. I did not state that I have been hunting “the property†for 3 years and was referring to the general Tuli area which comprises of several 100’s of Thousands of acres.

Now who is playing the lawyer. Shades of Bill Clinton- depends on what "is" is....so are you saying you consider hunting in Limpopo, or even on the continent "this area" And listen pal, I know for a fact you have NEVER hunted with a client in Botswana before- if you have please identify which are, not just "Tuli" name the farm, and/or pint to the pics on your website of the hunt. BTW I found it funny you have pics of an ele and a leopard on your site, as you have not guided a client on either. You did tag along on my PAC ele hunt in Tuli, but as you did not have a DG rifle, you asked me to bring and extra stoppper rifle for you, which I did. You are not a DG qualified PH and as such we were required to use a local Bots DG PH. We did not have any opportunity on ele as they have moved on, but please don't pretend that you have hunted Tuli, or that on your site you have guided leopard or ele. You did "guide" me on the RSA buff hunt, but only with two DG qualified PHs...

quote:

I wrote to another board member because Troskie told me the AR person was thinking of bringing his wife and family to hunt on Troskie’s “ranch’ and since I liked this board member, I reported exactly what I saw. Readers can be the judge- Troskie lives on a parcel that is 210 acres. Period- and a fact. It is, to my observation, surrounded by other such small parcels. With all the fences, cattle and people around, I don’t know how he can offer hunts on such a small parcel, especially since it is bisected by a well traveled road. Troskie, can you respond and/or refute this? I think you intend to drive your clients from your place to others in the area, which is fine, but from what I have seen as your promotion of it, I think it is inaccurate. FACT is you BS'd me about the Tuli area and YOU BS'd a potential client about your experience there....and won't fess up to it

What 404 saw of our ranch was a 6 mile stretch of dirt road leading through my neighbour’s 10,000 acre property to ours. He also saw the chalet he slept in (free of charge) and our house itself. How he came to the conclusion that we live on a “parcel of land of 210 acres†I don’t know – because according to my calculations 175 hectares does not convert to 210 acres… This is how I “promoted†our ranch to the “AR person†via pvt email: He hasn’t posted on this topic and as such is not part of this conversation but I’m sure he will recall me telling him during a telephone conversation that our own ranch is not big and I’m predominately hunting on my neighbour’s property:

• Of course you cannot compare ranch hunting to hunting in the Selous or Massailand but it is possible to hunt SA on foot nevertheless and still enjoy a wonderful and satisfying hunting experience.
• Allow me to tell you a bit about my outfit and the areas I hunt…

o My own company is only 3 years old now and needless to say it is small when compared to the guys who have been in the business for donkey’s years. But being small has its advantages – such as being able to personally oversee every hunt that I book and most importantly HUNT WITH MY CLIENTS MYSELF. You see, I didn’t choose this profession for the money (If I were into it for the money I should’ve stayed out of it). I chose becoming a PH because I love hunting and while some of the “big guys†prefer to sit back and relax, counting the money their PH’s are earning for them I prefer to be out there in the bush with my clients and hunt with them.
o Life has been good for me and in May this year, Sabina and I were fortunate enough buy our own ranch near Lephalale (Ellisras). Our ranch is situated on the Mogol River and located in one of the most picturesque areas in the Limpopo Province. We named the ranch SABRISA – using letters from Sabina’s (SABINA) my own (CHRIS) and my daughter (ASHLEY)’s names.

• Apart from being picturesque; the mountains next to the Mogol are also renowned for the free ranging Kudu, Bushbuck, Klipspringer, Mountain Reedbuck, Warthog and Bushpig that occur in the area. I hunt on our own ranch as well as that of my next-door neighbour and with the exception of two game fences and some old cattle fencing on the neighbour’s part, the property is unfenced so wild animals are free to come and go as they like.
• For the most part, hunting for Kudu, Klipspringer and Mountain Reedbuck takes place in the mountains and as there are very few roads into the mountains, we hunt up there on foot. So in answer to your question: YES, we can hunt on foot directly from camp. In fact, we don’t have much of an alternative. So this does make for a challenging hunt (I’m glad to hear you’re staying in shape) yet a very satisfying one…
• For species – other than the ones I mentioned above – I hunt on other concessions which are within a 30 minute radius from our property. These areas are game fenced but are large enough to hunt for days in a row (especially if done so on foot) without seeing the same landmarks over and over again.


Were exactly the misrepresentation part came in I don’t know. Yes, my neighbour has cattle (which 404 would have seen en route to our ranch) but for the most part his cattle pretty much stick to the open areas and NOT in the mountains where we hunt. 404 NEVER saw the mountains or where I hunt… ALL he saw was the dirt road and my house. Interesting also that the same 404 was interested in purchasing a share in what he now calls our “hovel†a year ago…

You told me you had 1/3 of your property on the river side of the road, which was 70 acres, and 2/3rds on the mountain side, which is where I got 210 acres. I willlook back at your earlier emails to see how you represented it. Yes, we did have discussions about me building a proper lodge on your property in a business deal, but once I saw it...that idea was dropped. Just like you wrote to me asking you to finance you in a hunting vehicle, I was unfortunately very generous with you, as I think I am with anyone I consider a friend.

And no, it was not my idea:

from an email

It would be great if you could come over sometime and
talk to Sabina about
the lodge. [another client] also expressed interest in such a venture but I'm not holding my breath on that happening as he has also been promising to send me the CZ
for over a year now and nothing has materialized on
that end. In any event; I'd much rather have you as partner in business...

About the other business you'd like to discuss you can call me anytime on my new landline. The number is +27 14 763-xxxx. Getting the house on the farm sorted out has pretty much exhausted the little financial reserves that I had so any other way to make some money would be welcomed.

Hope to hear from you soon.

May 31, 2007
I really, really appreciate your kind offer but my friend even if you were to pay for me I don’t think I can make it. I have a heck of a lot to do on the farm. I’ve just about finished building the kitchen and the next project is for me to build a guest toilet and start working on the extension which is going to keep me busy for quite a while. Plus I need to rebuild the road up the mountain and start building a camp or a new chalet so that the farm can start earning us some money so as much as I’d like to join you for some fun in Namibia it wouldn’t be practically possible for me to do it with you. (You wouldn’t be interested in building a chalet SA BTW? I haven’t discussed this with Sabina and I have no say about these things whatsoever but she might be open for some arrangement whereby you have a chalet and use of the farm when you’re here and I can rent the chalet from you (at a reasonable price of course) for clients when you aren’t using it… This would give you a “place†to come to in Africa at a reasonable price + you will have the assurance of it being looked after in your absence. Maybe a little bit of “pie in the sky†but something worth considering nevertheless…
Cheers,


If one does a search for Sbarisa Romantic Getaways, one can see a google earth pic of Troskie's place, where the distance from his place to the road, and the mountainous terrain that comprises most of his happy "hunting" area is contained, and with expansion, one can see all the dwellings surrounding his place. I will post a link

quote:

Yes, I did hunt with Troskie a lot, though of the 8 3-4 were hunts lasting 3-4 days and were tacked on to business trips to RSA. I considered him a warm friend, and I think turned a blind eye, and sort of kept buying his explanations of things, until it sort of reached the breaking point and I caught him in several out and out lies.

Lets see…

January 5th thru January 15th ’06 = 11 days
January 24th thru January 30th ’06 = 7 days
March 16th thru March 26th ’06 = 11 days
July ’06 – 404 cut his leopard hunt short to join me and my family for 4 days of hunting in Natal
August 15th thru August 24th ’06 = 9 days
October 9th thru October 17th ’06 = 9 days
May 10th thru May 18th ’07 = 9 days
April 24th thru May 1st ’08 = 8 days

Not sure where the “3 – 4 days tacked onto business†comes in…

It comes from the fact that on several of these "trips, you know as well as I, I came on Business, and you picked me up, took me to a hotel, and I conducted business for several days, and then went hunting. I specifically recall trips to lawyers, your recommended bookeeper, many banking trips, to the import export people etc. Why must you twist every detail to a convoluted end?

quote:

I found this PH’s email upon my return, and he wrote me that Troskie told him it was a “management†hunt and that I did not want the trophies, and further that I Troskie did not pay the Namibian PH enough money for a trophy hunt. All of this was news to me, despite over a year of inquiries. I received several emails from the Namibian PH that were not consistent with what Troskie told me and to the effect that the Namibian PH would never have anything to do with Troskie again. So where are my trophies Troskie- it has been a year and a half. PLEASE RESPOND HERE as you brought this to the board- and no “make up†excuses please.

Yeah, and that’s why the PH, his girlfriend, my wife and I were having dinner together a couple of months ago… talking about future hunting opportunities… It is perfectly possible though that he may not want to talk with me anymore – especially as 404 decided to get in touch with him and told him that he had left a $1,000 tip with me to pay over to him… which is absolute BS... 404 left a tip of in the region of around $1,200 with me which he gave me a written mandate for to split whichever way I deemed appropriate. I wrote him back and said that I had already shared the proceeds of the hunt with the PH and intended using the tip to make the hunt work for me financially as well. After settling 404’s hotel bill in Pretoria which he told me he had paid when I picked him up from the hotel but he had in fact not, there was not much left of “my†proceeds. For this reason I “kept†the tip for myself and advised 404 accordingly. He wrote back and said that this was in order with him…

Still doesn't answer my questions- and That is not the tune he is singing in his emails to me- he was obviously blissfully unaware of the issue, since you never raised it with him, despite writing me and telling me you were looking into it...re the hotel bill, another attempt to show me as some kind of dishonest person? I have my bank account statements on line, and I see that the hotel charged me 17.00- You however, had already pre paid the hotel, and I specifically remember saying I would pay for my breakfast, and you protested, but I did. You bucko, quoted me on the trip, inclusive of the hotel. You have a bad habit of constantly whining about how little money you make on hunts. This is not my business, I have paid EVERY bill you presented to me in full and promptly...The Namibian PH has asked not to be involved in this cyber war and I will respect that, and I have already begun recovery efforts in RSA against you for the Namibian trophies.

Facts are that 404 invited me to join him on a cull hunt in the Kalahari – an invite which I politely declined… I offered to put something similar together for him in Namibia in place of the Kalahari hunt which he agreed to. The Namibian hunt started off as a non-trophy hunt but 404 got some nice animals and the Namibian PH asked 404 how he would like to have the trophies prepared… Granted; this may have brought 404 under the impression that the trophies were exportable… but this can hardly be blamed on me… The first time I learned of 404’s intentions to have the trophies exported was in May last year during yet another one of his tantrums via email. I told him I’ll get in touch with the Namibian PH and find out what he has to say. The PH responded by stating that the hunt was not priced as a trophy hunt from the outset and that additional charges would be payable to have the trophies exported. I requested the PH to get in touch with 404 in this regard and seeing that I did not hear from 404 or have any enquiries regarding his trophies for another full year I assumed the matter had been resolved between him and the Namibian PH. In fact later that same month 404 and his brother hunted with me again and never mentioned the Namibian trophies…

BTW, here’s an excerpt from my email to 404 when I “sold†the Namibian hunt to him:

I’ll be upfront and say that I can’t offer you a similar deal to the one you can get in the Kalahari and I will understand if you opted to rather take that deal. Thing is that if I opted to join you on the management hunt in the Kalahari, I won’t be earning an income from Piet which amounts to around $150pd and given my upcoming expenses with my US trip, I can’t really afford to do this even though I’d hunt for free with you in the Kalahari.

Trophy Prices:

Gemsbok - $400.00
Hartebeest - $500.00
Kudu - $600.00
Springbok - $250.00
Zebra - $600.00

These prices are exactly in line with Frank Heger's trophy prices when I hunted with him in 2006, the same year I hunted with Troskie in Namibia. And for the love of GOD who shoots a zebra on a management hunt? And yes, why was I asked how I wanted the trophies caped if it was a "management" hunt.I would like to make a general comment to Troskie, I think his overall presentation would be more effective if he conceded the issues about which he is obviously wrong- but he has not...and again more whining about not making money.Far as I can tell, no one put a gun to Troskie's head and forced him to take me as a client, or forced him to charge me the prices he did. I know at the time of the Namibian hunt he was hurting for $$$ and he saw an opportunity to steer me from one hunt onto another, where he would put money in his pocket, which he did.

and...unfortunately for Troskie, he did not include all of the email....see especially the reference to TROPHY prices and the reference to including the hotel room cost- he has said time and again he quoted the Namibia hunt as a management hunt- clearly he did not, nor did I "stiff" him on the hotel---why would I pay for it if it was already quoted and included?

His email:


Although the trophy fees are cheaper in Namibia Im paying exactly the same for accommodation as what I normally pay here (maybe even a little more) + Ive got to get myself up to Windhoek and pay the PH up there something too.

My normal rate for hunts of less than 7 days is $400pd and the best I can do under the circumstances is to offer you a rate of $350pd. On the upside I dont have to charge you VAT as this hunt will not be conducted in SA. This saves you an extra $56pd.

Ive included the airfare from JNB to Windhoek in the following quotes (something that isn't included in the Kalahari package) so for comparison sake you need to add airfare / transportation which would set you back an additional $481.00


Option 1:

09-Oct

Arrival day + Accommodation in Irene lodge

150.00
10-Oct

Flight to Windhoek BA6275

162.00
11-Oct

Hunt

350.00
12-Oct

Hunt

350.00
13-Oct

Hunt

350.00
14-Oct

Hunt

350.00
15-Oct

Hunt
350.00
16-Oct

Hunt

350.00
17-Oct

Return Flight to JNB BA6274 ($205) + DR ($350)

555.00 *


Total

2,967.00



There aren’t any management (female) animals available to hunt at the place where I can get us into in Namibia as all the animals are carrying babies at present. I have to admit that I find it a little strange that the place in the Kalahari is taking off female animals at this late time of year but I guess they have their reasons.

Either way, please let me know what you want to do as I need to confirm with the landowner whether we’re going up there or not and I’ll have to get the air tickets booked as well.

Looking at the prices 404 was quoted for his Namibian hunt and what Trophy Fees(even in Namibia) run at; CLEARLY these prices could not have been quoted for exportable “Trophy Animalsâ€. 404 was well aware of this fact.

'Fraid you blew this one bucko- you quoted me trophy fees, and they are in line with 2006 Namib prices...

quote:

And if I was such an oddball, why is Trokie’s site basically covered with me and my animals. I should total up what I have spent with him, but I think it is well north of $100,000

Simple… my site is “covered with 404 and his animals†because I was the one who guided him to those animals and I am in possession of 7 signed indemnity forms from 404 wherein he gave me permission to use photographs taken during SEVEN of his EIGHT hunts with me for promotional purposes… The pictures are certainly not there to show HIM off but indeed to show OTHER potential CLIENTS the quality of trophies hunted with me in the past.

I have asked yuo for these and you have not and cannot produce them. You have ONE indemnity and waiver, not 7......

quote:

Third- the BS about the kudu I shot and its size. He sort of sheepishly offered to let me shoot a “bigger†one and he would only charge me $800 for the first one. Why not step up and say he made a mistake in judging its size. After this incident the next few days until the end of the hunt were the bare minimum of communication and me leaving after the last bite of dinner, unless the landowner was with us, whose company I enjoyed. I did specify 55 or better on a kudu. BTW yesterday, I chose one myself and got him ….54 ½….

Oh, so there are actually Kudu bigger than 47†on the property! According to my information 404 wrote to ANOTHER AR member privately that he never saw any quality animals… Anyway; I also find it odd that he chose to shoot the “immature†47†kudu with me if he is so good at judging trophies… being able to “pick†his 54 ½†kudu himself…

quote:

Fourth- I did book a hunt with him for my son and I. We first hunted on a cull hunt in Limpopo with another PH, and my son was ill in bed for parts of every day of the hunt, hunting very little and very ill. He was not homesick, he was ill. I went on my last hunt alone with Troskie because he said he would not refund any of the approximately $6500 deposit I paid him, but that I could apply it toward a future hunt. I did so begrudgingly. I thought this was unreasonable and asked other PHs who told me they in similar circumstances, would have been more accommodation. So He had daily rates of $700 per day from me for 7 days, plus permits etc. He then insisted on charging me an additional $75 per day booking fee for the re-book, including 4 rifle permits at $150 per permit, which he apologized for and said he was out of pocket this amount. I learned while I was on the Tuli hunt that the permits only cost $50- and I was pissed that I was, in my opinion, being nickeled and dimed.

Troskie states that he bent over backwards to book me a replacement hunt- was he doing me a favor—or was he doing it to earn his living?

404 was quoted $150 per rifle permit and was happy to pay it. I do not ask merchants what they pay for their merchandise before agreeing to buy it… If the price I am quoted seems fair I pay it – period. And if I learn later that the merchant made a profit of 10, 20 or 100% on my purchase I cannot blame him for it. I have responded about the issue of charging $75 per day for the replacement hunt to Russ Gould. Fact is that I was under NO obligation to offer him ANYTHING. Yes; 404 did initially tell me that his son was not feeling well… This was 2 days before the hunt was supposed to have commenced and at the same time that he asked me to change the soft drinks I had already purchased for fruit juice… The following day he told me his son was missing home and was lying weeping in his chalet…

quote:

Regarding other issues:

Yes, we did talk to him about a hunt at Thabana and he did reserve the property, and yes, my wife did back out at the last minute. And yes, two weeks later she decided she wanted to go to Africa. Of course, I was thrilled that she wanted to go. At this time I received the follow up email from Boet Nel saying he now had availability, so we went to Namibia. I did call Troskie while we were in the hotel for two days explaining it all and said it was too bad our original plans fell through- because I considered him a friend and kept him posted on our doings.

Interesting… sounds very similar to an explanation someone offered earlier for booking a hunt with Jaco Human and cancelling it while Jaco was en route to the client (due to “business reasonsâ€). Coincidentally the same person ended up hunting with another outfitter during the time he had originally booked with Jaco… The events as I recall them were that Jaco and I met 404 at the airport. Jaco told me that 404 had invited him to have dinner with us that evening and that the plan was for Jaco to take 404 to his hotel… When 404 met Jaco he decided there and then that he did not want to hunt with him anymore. Conveniently forgetting that he had invited Jaco for dinner; he dragged me into this stating that he and I had a business appointment and that I would be taking him to his hotel… The following morning 404 told me that he had arranged to hunt with Johan Pieterse and that he had cancelled the hunt with Jaco. He then gave me a cheque for R6,000.00 which he asked me to take to Jaco and asked me to take him to Powder Keg where Johan Pieterse picked him up. THESE ARE THE FACTS!!!

Lastly; 404 claims that I knew he was unsatisfied about the kudu and about the hunt because he queried this and I gave him $100 discount on the kudu… Please see below an excerpt from my original quote for him, his brother and his son:

Arrival (Botswana) on November 15th and departure on November 24th.

Charges:

Nov 15th (arrival) - $450.00 ($150 X 3 PAX)
Nov 16th thru Nov 23rd - $5,600.00 ($350 X 2 X 8 hunting days)
Nov 16th thru Nov 23rd - $2,000.00 ($250 X 1 X 8 observer days)
Nov 24th (departure) - $450.00 ($150 X 3 PAX)
Total - $8,500.00
VAT - $1,190.00
TOTAL - $9,690.00

Should Adam not come (I sincerely hope he will though) you can subtract $2,300 + VAT of $322 from the total so the total cost would be $7,068.00 for you and Zach only.

Good news is that Sandy offered me better Trophy Fees than what I originally quoted you on some of the animals so these would be as follows:

Bushpig - $350
Gemsbok - $1,000
Eland - $1,700
Waterbuck - $1,600
Bushbuck - $750
Kudu - $1,300
Zebra - $1,000
Wildebeest - $800
Impala - $250
Warthog - $250

……

I really don't want to stuff Sandy around and I HAVE to let him know today or tomorrow at the latest still that (if) the deposit is on its way. So if you could please send it to my SA bank account ASAP I'd appreciate it. I don't know if you use internet banking for your FNB account but I could take Rands as well and that would be the quickest way of getting the money to me. Trophy fees have to be paid in US$ though...

Seeing that 404 claimed he had to pay $1,300 for an immature kudu in the post that spurred my post - EXACTLY WHAT I HAD QUOTED HIM I'm really interested tp hear how $1,300 less $100 gets to $1,300???

If I may remind Troskie, when a client hunts with a PH he relies on the PH to assess trophy quality. Sound vaguely familiar to you Troskie? The client focuses on the shot, n'est pas? This kudu you said- "it's big- shoot it" then the sad little tale of you not fessing up to the true size of it and at the time of my departure, you lying sack of shit, you know you presented me with a bill for a $1400 kudu, I protested and you lowered it to $1300..

But you know facts are a funny thing, especially when yuo write them to me in an email:
Hey man,

Just got off the phone with Mr. M-----.

His area in Tuli is open - 12,000 hectares with river frontage and no
internal fences.

Same camp I spoke to you about before - i.e. bushmen trackers, tented camp
etc.

Please let me know if you ant me to take this further with him. I haven't
told him yet that it is you who are interested in hunting there but will do
so if I get your go-ahead on the hunt and sort things out with him -

Daily rate is $400 per day for 1X1 hunting and the animal prices same as
those he quoted us for May's hunt i.e.

Blue Wildebeest
$ 1,000.00

Bushbuck
$ 850.00

Bushpig
$ 500.00

Duiker
$ 300.00

Impala
$ 400.00

Kudu
$ 1,750.00

Steenbuck
$ 300.00

You knocked the kudu from $1750 to 1400, then after more protest, $1300, or your earlier offer of $800 "if I shot one bigger"...look everyone makes mistakes, you guided me to a one horn steenbok, which didn't bother me- and had you been straightforward, it would not have been such a big deal. I reiterate, I think you are under a lot of money pressure and you are pushing things, and nickel and diming, proclaiming the impala I shot was "big" when it was ...what 21 inches etc...

AND HEY BIG MAN WHAT ABOUT THOSE BUSHMEN TRACKERS YOU SOLD ME ON....? NO RESPONSE? AN OUT AND OUT LIE, AS IS YOUR CLAIM TO HAVE HUNTED "THIS AREA" FOR THREE YEARES, AS IS YOUR VERSION OF THE NAMIBIA HUNT AND AS IS YOU "MAKE-UP' DITTY...YOU ARE A LIAR LIVE WITH IT

Hey pal you brought this to the board, and yes you are a BSer about just about everything - where you hunted, when , how much, how big etc. and I know it will catch up with you. I suppose I agree with you if being BS'd and receiving poor service from a PH is personal.....

Mr Neal:

After reading this I have a question. What is a "fuckwit" and/or a "double fuckwit"?

I thought I could curse with the best of them but I have never heard these terms.

Mr. Shores,

Your question can be answered at the following website:

www.fuckwit.info

Arguing on the internet is a lot like competing in the Special Olympics. You may win, but at the end of the day you are still retarded.

Why don't you two just go to "Fist City" and be done with this.

Early on, I found this thread quite entertaining, for which I am now deeply embarrassed.

It's just sad.

Should circumstances ever allow me to hunt Africa I am convinced that I would not wish to do so in company with any of the principals in this tawdry tale, and would think twice about doing so with anyone who has participated in the thread, including myself.

Blech.

500 grains: Leave it to the internet to have an answer and a website for everything!

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
There are a lot of red herrings in this thread. As I read it, the issue seems to be the hunter became disillusioned with his favorite PH over several specific events:

1. He shot 2 oryx and 2 kudu on a hunt in Namibia with this PH in 2006, and has not received the trophies. In addition, he felt that the PH let him down judging the first kudu, with which he was disappointed. It turned out to be a 47" kudu and it's still in Namibia being held hostage along with the client's other trophies. Client has received a note from the landowner in Namibia saying that he is not entitled to trophies because he did not buy a trophy hunt, but rather a management hunt. The landowner has demanded an additional $1000 PER KUDU, not clear about the other animals. The client says he bought a trophy hunt and paid (I believe) $1200 and $1300 for the two kudu, not sure what he paid for the gemsbok. This would indicate that the landowner thinks a trophy kudu is worth $2200 or $2300! The PH maintains the client was flexible as to trophy size and that he told him the kudu was mediocre before client took the shot, but he has not commented about the ransom note or the hostage situation.

Sorry Russ, You’ve got the facts wrong. The 47†kudu was hunted last month in Botswana and the other animals referred to during 2006 in Namibia. The Namibian hunt was never sold to “the client†as a trophy hunt… As a matter of facts; “the client†invited “the PH†to go with him on a cull hunt in Namibia to which “the PH†responded by saying that he could not take time off from work but that he could set “the client†up for a similar hunt – arranged by him... “The client†agreed to this and even went as far as stating in pvt correspondence that: “OK, it was just another crazy idea but I understand – you need to make some money…†The hunt turned out to be quite productive and “the client†hunted some good trophies. One year after the event “the client†wrote to "the PH" and queried the status of his "trophies".


It certainly was sold as a trophy hunt, in fact I have posted the relevant email from Troskie in the thread below where it was quoted as a trophy hunt.

quote:

2. The client says he was sold a hunt in Botswana that was represented as a concession hunt while it was in fact a ranch hunt. The hunt was apparently unproductive. Client says the PH continues to misrepresent the nature of the hunt as well as his experience with the area to other potential clients. The PH hasn't addressed this issue.

In South Africa we refer to hunting areas as “concessions†– whether such an area comprises as a ranch or a “concession area†on public land. Furthermore; you should know that Tuli is a area that comprises of several hundreds of thousands of acres and I have indeed been hunting the Tuli area for 3 years. This does NOT mean nor did I imply that I had been hunting this particular ranch (which is 30,000 acres in size) for 3 years. 404 was well aware of the fact that this particular ranch was a new area of mine as can be seen from an excerpt of an email to him dated 30 January 2008:

As noted in the response I made in Troskie's post- nice Bill Clinton imitation. Please state where and when you ahve hunted the Tuli area and on whose farm it was . BSer..

I was up there last week and have to say it is awesome! Rustic tented camp, huge hunting area and LOTS of game! Roy - the owner seems like a good guy...

quote:

3. The client had problems with "cooks" on at least two hunts. In one case, he says the cook wasn't any good at cooking, although she was apparently very good at other activities; and in the other case, the cook was the PHs wife. The client, having met her previously, specifically requested that she not be part of his hunt. However, the PH ignored that request and she came along anyway. From other postings on AR, the PH's wife has conflicted feelings about hunting. The PH doesn't disagree with these facts, as best I can tell, but he has taken umbrage at the client's email feedback to him regarding the presence and personality of his wife after the hunt.

Russ you have your facts wrong again... 404 met my wife for the first time ever on his arrival night on the 24th of April this year. 404 NEVER requested that my wife not be part of the Botswana hunt. I did indeed ask him if it would be OK for my wife to come along and take care of the cooking when he booked a hunt for him and his brother in May last year… His response was that she should rather not come – something I obliged to. During the May ’07 hunt 404 had (as usual) complaints about the black cook’s cooking abilities and when he booked the Botswana hunt he specifically asked who would be doing the cooking. My response was that my wife would be taking care of this. In a previous post 404 has already acknowledged that he received such an email although he claims he “missed itâ€. Regarding the personal insults that 404 threw at my wife - everyone is entitled to his own opinions… Yet; no one can expect to insult another person’s wife and hope it will be overlooked… A client pays me to hunt with him – NOT to have me or my wife insulted by him…

Best solution, leave your women at home....and you are a little mixe dup bucko- you asked and I specifically said I did not want your wife on the hunt in Botswana, when I originally booked it with my son. yuo may have forgotten or mixed it up, but that is a fact.

quote:

3. The client appears to have an unpredictable business/travel schedule and admits that he cancelled at least three hunts on short notice. In one case he paid the requested cancellation fee (with Jaco); in another case, when the client's wife seemed to have trouble making up her mind about her first trip to Africa, it's not clear how this was handled; the client then ended up going on a Safari with another operator in Namibia two weeks later, which offended the PH. In a third case, when the client says his son was taken ill and the PH claims his son was merely homesick, the PH kept the full prepayment for a hunt, comprised of daily rates ($700 per day x 7 days on a 2x1 hunt) plus some additional payments bringing the total to $6500, but offered to apply this amount to a future hunt. But he also charged $75 per day premium on the rebook as a "rebooking fee" and also $600 for 4 additional rifle permits for Botswana, when according to the client these permits cost $200. The client, as a major repeat customer, felt that he was owed some consideration/flexibility due to the amount of money he has spent with this PH, instead the PH was starting to nickle and dime him unfairly. The PH doesn't address these issues.

Facts Russ! “The client†cancelled a hunt with “the PH†on the pretence that his wife didn’t want to come. Meanwhile the real reason was that he got (what he thought was) a better deal in Namibia. He then ran into a “bad experience†with Boet Nel (SHORT NOTICE BOOKINGS!!!) and had the audacity to call “the PH†up and ask him to fly up to Namibia and show them around. While the “client†was hunting with “the PH†in May last year he booked a June hunt for him, his son and his brother in Mozambique. The PH does not own the concession in Mozambique and therefore has an arrangement with an outfitter up there. Three weeks before the client was due to arrive he advised that he “didn’t know†he needed a visa for Mozambique. Other clients managed in the past to get an emergency visa within 3 days… Yet this “client†claimed there was not enough time for him to get a visa and he cancelled yet another hunt… The concession owner asked for a $1,000 cancellation fee – which the client initially agreed to pay but later refused… The result was that “the PH†had to pay the cancellation fee out of his own pocket… Short notice cancellations seem to be habit of “the client†as he did the SAME with Jaco Human… So this “client†does not only believe it is his right to insult PH’s and their wives – he also thinks it is his right to cancel hunts as and when he wants…

Hmmmm...how is it that you know this? In fact, my wife did not want to go to Africa, then after we "cancelled", if you can call it that, as we had not got to the stage of even contracts or deposits, Troskie made some inquiries...then she read about Namibia, the deserts, Etosha, and how peaceful it was compared to RSA, that she opted to go. If I was such a cad, why did I call you from Namibia and talk to you about our situation? Logically inconsistent = not true.

RE Moz- facts are a funny thing, especially when there are written by Troskie in an email. TROSKIE try not to drink when you respond- you are getting sloppy. I don't know where he gets the "three weeks" timetable. I went to a concession owned by an outfitter with Troskie as a PH and hunted with my brother. While there, Troskie told me the same outfitter had a deal on croc/hippo in Moz. We talked about it. I spoke with the Outfitter's mother about it. I told everynone we may go in a few weeks, but I'd have to clear things and see who could go, my brother, my son, or all three of us. We looked at dates. I asked Troskie for air charter costs, he wrote back 6 days later he could not go and quoted the airfare and advised that I needed a visa, and that the open dates were beginning in 5 days. I responded that I needed a week to get a visa per the Moz embassy, and that I did not want to hunt with an unknown PH, to which Troskie advised I not go. The outfitter apparently took issue with it, and in many emails Troskie himself said they were out of line requesting a cancellation fee under the circumstances. All of this occurred within a matter of weeks, but I did not book then cancel three weeks before on the visa issue...

just one of many emails:

I have several emails of this vein from Troskie:



Write me a separate email stating that you were unaware of the fact that you needed a visa for Mozambique and that by the time you realised you did it was too late to get one sorted. Mention that although the hunt in Mozambique was scheduled for 23rd onwards your plans were to come over earlier to look at properties and do some hunting in SA which would have reduced the time available to have the visa issued and in hand before you left. You may also want to add that the invitational letter from the M***** (required for the visa) was only sent to you on the June 8th – eight days before you were due to leave for SA and that did not give you enough time to apply for the visa.

Troskie quite clearly sated to me not to pay the fee and that he did not think it was warranted. Troskie claims to have paid the cancellation fee- but I doubt he did, I would not put it past him to have made up the whole scenario to squeeze another $1000 out of me- he claims he paid it out of my deposit for the Bots hunt, about half of which I basically wasted by not going on the original hunt.


Because the same outfitter that set “the PH†up in Mozambique previously used to set “the PH†up in Botswana; “the PH†asked for full daily rates upfront when “the client†booked the Botswana hunt – this was something that “the client†clearly agreed to as he did indeed pay the deposit over. “The PH’s†contract clearly stipulates that there are NO REFUNDS on cancelled hunts and as such was under NO obligation to either offer “the client†a replacement hunt OR a refund. “The client†had specific dietary requirements – amongst others the fact that he dislikes venison – which was part of the regular menu. This implied that the landowner had to drive for 1.5 hours to the nearest town to stock up on supplies that would meet “the client’s†requirements – amongst others fresh fruit and vegetables... Furthermore; this hunt was scheduled outside of the regular hunting season – which means that the landowner had to especially have his farm hands stay on = incurring cost… “The PH†also had to incur cost of his own… like booking his own time, making international phone calls etc… being phoned 2 days before the hunt and be advised of “new†beverage preferences – just to be called a day later and be told: “sorry we’re not coming as my son is lying in his room weeping because he’s missing home…†Regarding the $150 importation fee… any business transaction comprises of: 1.) a willing seller and 2.) a willing buyer… I don’t ask you how much you pay for the product you sell and if the price you charge me sounds right to me I will pay it… The same applies here. Whether I get the importation permits for free, whether I add a 10% margin or a 150% margin is irrelevant. As things were this “client†was quoted $1,300 TF on a Kudu that normally sells for $1,600…

Quite the liar you are Troskie- I did not have any specific food or beverage requirements, and as you may verify with Roy and Charlotte whom I hunted with and just returned from 4 days ago, I ate and was very happy to eat venison. You are an odd bird, you ask clients what they want, and if they specify anything specific, you complain they are picky. I think you Troskie are in the wrong business, you constantly ridicule your clients, and I have many emails re the latest stupid thing this client or that client did, and you seem genuinely to not like being in the service industry. Time to get out.My son was ill with the flu, you wrote as much in emails to others, and you wrote me not to worry about it. I did not sign ANY contract for the Bots hunt, nor can you produce one, and your claim to the entire deposit likely could not be enforced ,though I let it go.If I am such a pain, please feel free long ago to stop accepting my bookings, The reason you got them is I can only book very short notice due to my work, and you, my friend, were always free, except when I booked with Jaco, who, by the way Troskie DID NOT recommend.

I do know for a fact that Troskie's story to me about cancellation fees being demanded etc is a total out and out lie-----?

quote:

The parties became disillusioned with each other as a result of these events, and the client, who had initially been a strong reference for the PH, began to provide negative testimonials instead of the expected praise, and apparently also withdrew or revised testimonials he had provided in the past.

The parties did not become disillusioned with each other because of the events as you described them… One party became aggrieved with another party because of a personal issue that has nothing to do with hunting whatsoever… He then threatened to destroy the other party’s reputation and put action to his words by writing privately to certain members of this board without giving the other party an opportunity to respond... The first party also severely insulted the other party’s wife – which he was offended by.

quote:

This then culminated when the client mentioned kudu incident (without mentioning names) on another thread, causing the PH to tell his side of the story in this thread. This then led to a major piling on by others. Unfortunately, in three pages of derogatory and mostly irrelevant postings, the key issues outlined above have not been addressed by the PH.

Russ, over and above the informative value of this forum, one of the reasons we post here is because we’re hoping clients will consider booking with us… and I honestly wish you all success with your endeveerrs… During 404’s “disaster hunt†he told me that he had previously been talking to you about hunting Botswana… Maybe you’ll book him – maybe not… and if you do… I wish you LOTS of success… Who knows? MAYBE we’ll be reading a similar thread here on AR in 2 years time… maybe not… just be sure not to leave 404 alone at the campfire for as long it takes to get him another beer...

[b]Again with the complaints about clients and service--you are in the wrong business bucko - too bad you cop days are through- there you could really take out your aggressions, as you have told me many times before of the "good old days"..I did consider meeting your Truth and Reconciliation Panel target friend a sort of macabre highlight my visits to RSA...[how many blacks did you admit to killing..was it 11 or 13, I just can't remember- oh well it is all public record anyway.../b]

RUSS you are free to respond - as far as I know you and I have never talked about Bots, our only conversation was a year or two ago re Burkino Faso- but correct me if I am wrong--TOO many details for Troskie to keep straight...

My free advice to Troskie and I hope last words from me:

Bad move starting the thread

Better to deal directly with the two people I provided poor references for

Make up your mind if we were friends and therefore you agree I should not share the crap you told me, though the money borrowing etc was already put out ther eby you

And better if you had to post, just to say I was a difficult client re the short notice bookings and "cancellation" of my wife's hunt 2 years ago, and your disappointment re my son's illness, where you kept the full 2x1 $700 per day fees without any credit back, and fess up that the Moz "cancellation" was as you reported in your email to me, not a firm booking/cancellation for the reasons you stated,

and then otherwise admit you made a pile of $$$ off me

And if you truly had all these negative ideas about me all this time- make up, demanding- "tantrums" you kept them to yourself for the money

OR ---I am losing track-- were we friends, with you visiting me at my home at your request etc yet I was some kind of major make up wearing FREAK...?

Yes, better to quit while you are only this far behind- or next up - see if a reader can identify himself as a ridiculed client in quoted emails and one of several clients who think Troskie is a great guy...or one of several PHs who post on the board who are also ridiculed in emails.....

Thanks 500.

I learned something today. I proudly thought I knew every curse word in existence.

Larry, FWIW (I guess) I am an example of a double FW. I'm just glad he didn't call me a TRIPLE FW! That would have been really bad.
Peter.

quote:

Should circumstances ever allow me to hunt Africa I am convinced that I would not wish to do so in company with any of the principals in this tawdry tale, and would think twice about doing so with anyone who has participated in the thread, including myself.

Blech.

I'll second that.

After several of the these internet inquisitions, there is a long list of people I do not want to be seen with let alone hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
You are not a DG qualified PH and as such we were required to use a local Bots DG PH. We did not have any opportunity on ele as they have moved on, but please don't pretend that you have hunted Tuli, or that on your site you have guided leopard or ele. You did "guide" me on the RSA buff hunt, but only with two DG qualified PHs

It is standard practice to have a back-up PH with when hunting dangerous game. As far as DG qualified is concerned...




This is a copy of my current UNRESTRICTED permit.

For sake of clarity - here is also a copy of the back page of my old (restricted) permit. (Special restrictions par 6.)



Only DANGEROUS GAME QUALIFIED PH's are issued with UNRESTRICTED permits

quote:

Simple… my site is “covered with 404 and his animals†because I was the one who guided him to those animals and I am in possession of 7 signed indemnity forms from 404 wherein he gave me permission to use photographs taken during SEVEN of his EIGHT hunts with me for promotional purposes… The pictures are certainly not there to show HIM off but indeed to show OTHER potential CLIENTS the quality of trophies hunted with me in the past.

I have asked yuo for these and you have not and cannot produce them. You have ONE indemnity and waiver, not 7......

I've sent 404 one and here are two more. The other waivers have his name and address written on them so I'm not sure if he'd like me to publish these as well... Either way; this will be my last post on the matter as I feel that I have responded to all the relevant issues raised.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I thought I'd seen everything on the hunting forums of the internet, but this one takes the cake!

DITTO

Sorry folks, but this is officially SICK. I'm outta here.

Come on guys...this may be the best thread since the Sheephunter/PVT thread where the true "character" and "ethics" of McBragg and several other AR "elite" were exposed. Lighten up and enjoy. As someone mentioned earlier, how many more times must we discuss the merits of the 30-06 as a plainsgame rifle or the best two rifle battery...

Chris,

Although I would sign a waiver, I would never sign an indemnity agreement. If you need insurance then buy insurance, but I think it is poor form to ask the client to indemnify you from the risks that are inherent in your business.