quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
Why not do it the other way around??.

Tease a buffalo with a peewee pistol and ends up with killing it with a spear during the charge.

Jens

Go ahead.

All I can say is I'm glad I had a rifle in my hands when charged, albeit a smaller calibre
than desired but it did the trick at the time.

I honestly could not see a spear stopping a charge !!! LOL

Would be funny watching someone else though.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I guess you just proved that it is an 'imagined threat' only, at this stage.

Not entirely imagined Matt. A few years ago, the LACS produced a document condemning trophy sport hunting in Africa where they used no end of our own material against us and they did it very effectively.

Whilst it took advantage of a lot of image and data theft from a variety of sources including AR and hunting websites, they basically used our own material against us and there's absolutely no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same with video clips instead of still images and text....... in fact, I'd likely they will do so at some time in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I guess you just proved that it is an 'imagined threat' only, at this stage.

Not entirely imagined Matt. A few years ago, the LACS produced a document condemning trophy sport hunting in Africa where they used no end of our own material against us and they did it very effectively.

Whilst it took advantage of a lot of image and data theft from a variety of sources including AR and hunting websites, they basically used our own material against us and there's absolutely no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same with video clips instead of still images and text....... in fact, I'd likely they will do so at some time in the future.

What is LACS? What result did they get using this material.

Scenes depicting animal cruelty are deleted off Youtube...

Matt

Sorry. The League Against Cruel Sports (LACS) are a very nasty anti hunting group in the UK....... but I've just found the document and it was Animal Rights Africa not LACS..... my error in naming the wrong bunch of nucking futters.

I'd happily post the document itself but it's a MASSIVE PDF and not only do I not know how to post multi pages, it'd take me forever to do it with my connection speed even if I could.

I can try to email it to you if you PM me your email address and you can see for yourself how they've used hunters pics & quotes etc against us....... my point is I reckon there's a bloody good chance they'll do the same with unfortunate video clips when they feel the time is right for them to do so.

I didn't say they took stuff off of You Tube, I said they took it off of websites including extensive posts and pics off of AR and then used that material to attack us hunters.

That's OK - thanks. What I am saying is that there is no evidence (that I have seen) that it has actually had a negative (legislative/regulatory) effect.

There was one activity here in Australia - where there was a chance (lugging pigs with dogs) - but you tube stomped on it as did the industry groups in Australia. Apart from that I havent seen anything.... Youtube is full of all sorts of crap, much of it heavily edited and photoshopped (or whatever the deal is with video) - I think it is a little naive to think that it could be used against us successfully, when Youtube itself censors the actual animal cruelty. That could infact be part of our defence - it must be OK because youtube allowed it!!

As I see it, the hunting world has suffered increasing restrictions for years. Whether it be increasing firearms restrictions in Oz or the UK, foxhunting in the UK or toughening general firearms licencing in RSA etc etc etc...... it's been going on for years and to a large extent, all these restrictions are won (at least partly) by the antis using efficient PR against us or our appointed representatives......... and the document I mentioned and offered to send to you is a good example of that.

As a famous man once said, "public opinion is a fickle thing" and therefore, I feel that giving thee antis gift wrapped ammunition of our own making for them to use against us when the time is right is a very bad thing to do.

As I see it, we need to win the PR war and the way to do that is to show the world that we behave responsibly and use our sport as a genuine conservation tool rather than make ourselves look like we just revel in slaughter......... If we do the former, we just might see our various sports continue for the next generation to enjoy but if we do the latter, we'll surely lose the war and sports we all love.

I'd never heard of lugging of pigs but have since Googled it and there are clips of the practice available on You tube right now and have to say, they're bloody good examples of why we shouldn't post such things....... I have to wonder what's in the mind of the fidiots who do so.

Anyone who posts this kind of crap must be fucking deranged!

In relation to that lugging video - the clip went for 20 seconds before the knife was applied. If this was deemed inhumane it would have been taken down already. This is a legitimate sport around the world - to deny it doesnt happen does hunting no favors at all.

You may not think it is a legitimate activity but... that is your problem!! Some other hunters may say that things you or I do are sick too??.. Some might say that taking a 200m shot with open sights on a fleeing red stag through the back (and publishing it) is uncool.... I wouldnt say that but others might.

Early-on - there were lugging clips that showed the guys standing around for extended periods and encouraging dogs. That is illegal activity and the antis did try (unsucessfully) to use those clips against pig hunters (on TV). but then Youtube and the hunters cleaned up their act and now they wont allow illegal activity to be shown.

You mentioned gun laws in Australia - in my home state we are having some laws repealed - but it is mostly through political pressure - not PR. Wins are possible!!

Matt

You miss my point yet again.

I'm not saying I disapprove of it at all. As I said previously, I don't care if someone wants to sneak up behind the animal and shag it to death....... I might not want to do it myself but if someone else does, then that's up to them.

My point is that putting bad taste videos or pics that portray hunters in a bad light on public view is a fidiotic thing to do because the antis will sooner or later use them to whip up public opinion in the hope it'll get some or all of our sport banned.

WOW!!! 127 posts!

Gentlemen I have only scanned to posts on this after watching the film and I may have missed the something but the wide range of opinions this one has caused are truly amazing!

I agree with those who find the group of so-called hunters as a little strange and self absorbed. Not a group I would enjoy hunting or sharing a camp with!

But having said that, I see no reason to down grade the hunting of dangerous game with a spear, and/or having a rifle/pistol back-up during the process.

I don't see anyone cussing those hunting dangerous game with a 500NE double for having a rifle back-up in case things go south!

I would love to hunt Africa's dangerous eight alone with only my rifle, but I certainly would not try that with a spear nor do I believe anyone here would either!

Even the natives who hunted elephant hippo, and buffalo with spears had 30 or 40 other spear chunkers to back them up, and every one of the people here who have hunted dangerous game in Africa have had a firearm back-up for when the shit-hit-the-fan the rifle back-up supplied a rain coat so they didn't get an unpleasant surprise!

Spear or knife killing of anything is not my cup of tea! It seems to me a little like murder more than hunting. That said different strokes for different folks! However if you choose to do your hunting that way, I see nothing wrong with haveing a firearm back-up as an insurance policy to avoid hospital or funeral costs!

.....................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt

You miss my point yet again.

I'm not saying I disapprove of it at all. As I said previously, I don't care if someone wants to sneak up behind the animal and shag it to death....... I might not want to do it myself but if someone else does, then that's up to them.

My point is that putting bad taste videos or pics that portray hunters in a bad light on public view is a fidiotic thing to do because the antis will sooner or later use them to whip up public opinion in the hope it'll get some or all of our sport banned.

Well you say very strange things Steve - you said the people who posted it must be deranged... how do you come to such a conclusion unless you are making comment on the activity itself. Surely you are not sayin that the activity is OK but the act of publishing it means they are deranged?? I don't understand your line of thinking here.

I fail to understand why you can't see the difference between doing it and publishing what is obviously going to be highly offensive to a very large percentage of the general public on the internet..... to me, it's bloody obvious that the latter is asking for trouble and an open door invitation to the antis to use such crap as part of an attempt to get such things banned.

No offence intended but I appreciate the Aussies aren't known for their diplomacy but to me at least, it's simply begging for trouble and as obvious as a kick in the head.

I guess I should say that I'd have no interest in pig lugging, spear hunting or shagging animals to death but don't criticise those who do it if they do it well but I'd want nothing to do with any of them..... I do however think putting videos of such activities on the net is a very dumb thing to do.

i am not sure about anything on you tube. it seems to only bite people in the ass. not sure but these sites might be the anti-christ. facebook is the cause of more divorces than anything else and just look at our general and his email practices. scary stuff.

What a Class A Jackass and braggart. The only consolation is his firing a 454 without hearing protection.

I have seen all four episodes of "Hard to Kill" twice now on the "Relentless Pursuit" TV show on Direct TV satilite co. I haven't seen anything tied by a rope or anything else. They had painted the blade of one of the spears orange I think to get maybe a better ideal of where it hit the animal much like luminock fitted arrows. The young inmature bull(not calf) that charged the "big man" was giving the typical bovine threat posture of a sideways head so any quick movement or getting closer was likely to get an aggressive responce. A posting by Matt awhile back on the Aussie NZ forum was that the young bull took a bullet to the back of the head from the 454. Tim Wells the short haired brother to long haired Buck(the silly one) is quite an acomplished bow hunter. He managed to kill two mature buff with the spears and he and long hair killed one mature buff each with the their bows. They racked up some trophy fees! Buck slightly wounded one mature buff when the bull raised it's head and catching the shank of the spear with the top of it's head resulting in a crooked slice by the blade through the very thick skin on top of the bull's neck but only the white of the skin showing in the cut and no red showing of the muscle below. Buck I believe it was in episode 3 arrowed a weaning age calf from a cow herd for the local tribe to have a cook out on the beach. Everything I saw was honest and sportsman like. Yes, the animals were a bit lax on their wariness but they have no natural preditors there to harrass them. I don't think they even worry about the crocs as they seem to take to the water without fear. I would never go after anything with a spear myself as it's just to difficult to place your shot.

Thanks 376 - I havent seen any oof the shows but I was there for most of that action described.

Did they show much of the bow-fishing?? That was the best hunting we did... really quite difficult and those guys are very skilled with that bow-fishing gear.

sorry to get on-topic but that spear did not seem enough to me to hit the vitals. though, he did seem to launch it hard and straight.

Delloro,

how much speed,momentum and Ft/lb does a spear need to reach the vitals on DG..?

I would not underestimate what a relatively slow sharp-edged weapon can do!

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:
sorry to get on-topic but that spear did not seem enough to me to hit the vitals. though, he did seem to launch it hard and straight.

Seem enough what??

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Yes, the animals were a bit lax on their wariness but they have no natural preditors there to harrass them. I don't think they even worry about the crocs as they seem to take to the water without fear. I would never go after anything with a spear myself as it's just to difficult to place your shot.

It is weird that they will swim in the water right near big crocodiles that are easily big enough to kill a buffalo. I guess the reality is that a croc would rather not take on a full grown buffalo - too much trouble and risk... so while they are swimming as a herd they are probably safe(ish).

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I fail to understand why you can't see the difference between doing it and publishing what is obviously going to be highly offensive to a very large percentage of the general public on the internet..... to me, it's bloody obvious that the latter is asking for trouble and an open door invitation to the antis to use such crap as part of an attempt to get such things banned.

No offence intended but I appreciate the Aussies aren't known for their diplomacy but to me at least, it's simply begging for trouble and as obvious as a kick in the head.

I guess I should say that I'd have no interest in pig lugging, spear hunting or shagging animals to death but don't criticise those who do it if they do it well but I'd want nothing to do with any of them..... I do however think putting videos of such activities on the net is a very dumb thing to do.

Matt, if it matters any, I agree with Mr Robinson as well as apparently A7Dave does.

I have no resume to impress you with and I wouldn't know if A7 does or not but the point is the main character in the video made a very poor representation of himself and his fellow outdoorsmen many of us believe. Although I'd absolutely jump at the chance to meet and hunt with you, I believe the video reflects very badly on the main character and your defense of him reflects badly on you.

There was simply no reason to walk up to the obviously un afraid immature buffalo and chuck a sharp stick at it. There was really no reason to blather about the incident after the spear chucking obviously went afoul and he had to side shuffle around the stump whilst dragging the hog leg outta his waist band. Having participated in the spearchuck-run-a-foul, having reviewed his on video blather, there really, really was no reason to post the video to the web and commit it to a tv show.

Strike three and you're out Fatty.

To the point, Main Character in video/ Fatty; if you're ever in Dillingham to film a fishing trip/ moose hunt or brown bear spear chucking fiasco and you find yourself in need of assistance, I am in the phone book but don't call. I think you're a jackass as does several other members here and I won't help.

See what we mean Matt?

Matt

Here's a good example of how what is posted on the internet can be stolen and twisted so our activities can be unfairly portrayed in a bad light.

At 5.03 of this video we see who must be one of the most ethical and generous hunters on AR AND a highly respected PH both being portrayed as canned lion hunters.

Not only have the video makers stolen the image and made a libelous suggestion they're also using it to advertise their own business AND also making a profit from it because of the advertising situation on youtube.

If this company can do this just think how much worse it could be if a rabidly anti hunting organisation or individual decide to do a similar thing with silly arsed videos such as the spear chucking stuff up being discussed here.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I fail to understand why you can't see the difference between doing it and publishing what is obviously going to be highly offensive to a very large percentage of the general public on the internet..... to me, it's bloody obvious that the latter is asking for trouble and an open door invitation to the antis to use such crap as part of an attempt to get such things banned.

No offence intended but I appreciate the Aussies aren't known for their diplomacy but to me at least, it's simply begging for trouble and as obvious as a kick in the head.

I guess I should say that I'd have no interest in pig lugging, spear hunting or shagging animals to death but don't criticise those who do it if they do it well but I'd want nothing to do with any of them..... I do however think putting videos of such activities on the net is a very dumb thing to do.

Matt, if it matters any, I agree with Mr Robinson as well as apparently A7Dave does.

I have no resume to impress you with and I wouldn't know if A7 does or not but the point is the main character in the video made a very poor representation of himself and his fellow outdoorsmen many of us believe. Although I'd absolutely jump at the chance to meet and hunt with you, I believe the video reflects very badly on the main character and your defense of him reflects badly on you.

There was simply no reason to walk up to the obviously un afraid immature buffalo and chuck a sharp stick at it. There was really no reason to blather about the incident after the spear chucking obviously went afoul and he had to side shuffle around the stump whilst dragging the hog leg outta his waist band. Having participated in the spearchuck-run-a-foul, having reviewed his on video blather, there really, really was no reason to post the video to the web and commit it to a tv show.

Strike three and you're out Fatty.

To the point, Main Character in video/ Fatty; if you're ever in Dillingham to film a fishing trip/ moose hunt or brown bear spear chucking fiasco and you find yourself in need of assistance, I am in the phone book but don't call. I think you're a jackass as does several other members here and I won't help.

See what we mean Matt?

Scott - I am only commenting here about what I know about the event and what I personally know about the individual in question. You are quite welcome to call Thompson a jackass or whatever else, from what you see on someone Youtube clip - I have no problem with that and I haven't questioned anyone's opinion in that respect. Like I said - Lynn is a big boy and he puts himself out there and he is well used to criticism. I have only corrected things that I know are incorrect... OK??

As far as him walking up to the unafraid animal... he was behind a rather large termite mound for cover... and it did take them well over one hour to get into that position... just saying, it wasn't a walk in the park.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I have only corrected things that I know are incorrect... OK??.

Actually Matt, you might like to review your own posts because if you'd only done that, most of this debate wouldn't have taken place.

What you've done is consistently misunderstood my comments and consistently attacked me for what you seemed to think my comments meant rather than what they did say and mean.

Just to make it clear, the aforementioned point I've repeatedly been trying to make is that it is simply fidiotic to post such videos on the internet where they can be misused by the antis.

The question now is, do my previous comments in general and my post before this one in particular illustrate to you that point I've been trying to make all along?

Or alternatively, do you think such videos are a good thing and/or do you think they portray hunters in a good light?

Whatever Steve - you are entitled to your opinion on the videos... I am not going to get into any more of a pissing match about whether 'these' videos do bad. I said from the outset that I wasnt totally happy with 'this' video being on Youtube.

When I wrote that I had only been correcting the incorrect - I was talking about the statements about 'this' video, not our discussions about whether Youtube clips are bad for hunting.

Next they will be doing this as an advert for their knives and spears!

What this man was doing has nothing to do with hunting.

All he was doing is making an advert for the company that makes the knives and spears.

This actually is not much different from all the silly so called "hunting" shows one sees on the TV nowadays.

The producers have a script, and they go out and impliment it. Regardless of how silly what they do looks like.

Hunting for the same of hunting, and taking a video of the hunt, is a completely different thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:
sorry to get on-topic but that spear did not seem enough to me to hit the vitals. though, he did seem to launch it hard and straight.

Seem enough what??

seem adequate

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Delloro,

how much speed,momentum and Ft/lb does a spear need to reach the vitals on DG..?

I don't know, otherwise I would not have questioned it.

I do not underestimate archery, as I am not unfamiliar with it. but I am unfamiliar with thrown spear hunting. intuitively I do not expect a spear thrown into a buffalo to work very quickly or cleanly. but I really do not know.

I have been avoiding watching the clip, but finally did and have a few thoughts:

Did anyone else notice how fat boy was out of breath after walking up to the buffalo, throwing the spear, then taking three or four steps to get out of its way?

The title was "Lynn Thompson gets Charged by a Buffalo". Wouldn't it be more accurate to call it, "Lynn Thompson Provokes a Buffalo Charge"?

Yes, this is great for our collective public image as hunters: a fat hunter walking up to an immature buffalo, that does not appear to be the least bit concerned about his presence, and then throwing a spear at it with with the same grace, power, and form of a third grade girl trying to throw a shot put and having much the same results.

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Delloro,

how much speed,momentum and Ft/lb does a spear need to reach the vitals on DG..?

I don't know, otherwise I would not have questioned it.

I do not underestimate archery, as I am not unfamiliar with it. but I am unfamiliar with thrown spear hunting. intuitively I do not expect a spear thrown into a buffalo to work very quickly or cleanly. but I really do not know.

A spear (that spear) into the vitals kills very, very fast mate. It has a very large cutting edge and as the animal moves it does a lot of damage, cutting arteries and other organs. It also penetrates very well, even on very thick skinned animals like these buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

Yes, this is great for our collective public image as hunters: a fat hunter walking up to an immature buffalo, that does not appear to be the least bit concerned about his presence, and then throwing a spear at it with with the same grace, power, and form of a third grade girl trying to throw a shot put and having much the same results.

it lodged in the buffalo's horn... The buffalo blocked it with his horn

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Next they will be doing this as an advert for their knives and spears!

What this man was doing has nothing to do with hunting.

All he was doing is making an advert for the company that makes the knives and spears.

This actually is not much different from all the silly so called "hunting" shows one sees on the TV nowadays.

The producers have a script, and they go out and impliment it. Regardless of how silly what they do looks like.

Hunting for the same of hunting, and taking a video of the hunt, is a completely different thing.

He was there for the hunting and to try to kill a buffalo with the spear his company makes. The filming was secondary...

baloney! the filming was primary to help him sell the spear his company makes...

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
baloney! the filming was primary to help him sell the spear his company makes...

The film may have been to sell his spear but as Matt said he was there primarily to hunt.

Cheers,
Mark.

Quite frankly the level of vitriol, expressed in attacks on the character and appearance of the person in this clip - a fellow hunter - is just mind-blowing to me....

but this is AR after-all - where talk is cheap...

quote:

Originally posted by Mark R:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
baloney! the filming was primary to help him sell the spear his company makes...

The film may have been to sell his spear but as Matt said he was there primarily to hunt.

Cheers,
Mark.

I know you were right there with me Mark but I don't even think the film's main purpose was to sell product and this clip certainly was not. To my mind the main thing was in getting good hunting footage - which we got - to show what could be achieved. This clip was just a failed spear throw that highlighted Lynn's prowess with the handgun - nothing more, nothing less. He didn't even post the video, the TV show did. Lynn hunted with the handgun for MOST of the 14 days!!!!!! Last time I looked he wasnt selling handguns!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

What this man was doing has nothing to do with hunting.....

...Hunting for the same of hunting, and taking a video of the hunt, is a completely different thing.

Many people over the yrs have been fueled by the emotive/creative/sensationalised writings of Hemingway,Crapstick,OssaJohnson, etc

If Hemingway was hunting for the sake of hunting- rather than to sell his books,[or prove his manhood]
then he would not have been disappointed when he shot a lion and it just died, feeling deflated that he had no event to sensationalise over for his book.

Trying to sell books,videos, knives,spears[or hunts]...is all the same in my eyes when your motives are identical.

I wonder how many people who appreciated the likes of Hemingways writings also criticise Lynn Thompson for doing much the same thing?
[ie; promoting/publicising,exaggerating and profiting for his own self interest]

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

There was simply no reason to walk up to the obviously un afraid immature buffalo and chuck a sharp stick at it.

What reason does one need to hunt game?..

Does DG have to express fear, or be aware of ones presence, in order for one to hunt it?

If theres no good reason to throw spear at a bovine.
then theres probably no good reason to launch a HV rifle projectile at it either.

quote:

What this man was doing has nothing to do with hunting.

Perhaps not our "Cup of Tea" but is dose fall into the category of Hunting as explained in a dictionary:
hunt;
   [huhnt] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to chase or search for (game or other wild animals) for the purpose of catching or killing.

hunt (hnt)
v. hunt·ed, hunt·ing, hunts
v.tr.
1. To pursue (game) for food or sport.
2. To search through (an area) for prey: hunted the ridges.
3. To make use of (hounds, for example) in pursuing game.
4. To pursue intensively so as to capture or kill: hunted down the escaped convict.
5. To seek out; search for.
6. To drive out forcibly, especially by harassing; chase away: hunted the newcomers out of town.
v.intr.
1. To pursue game.
2. To make a search; seek.

The Australian Water Buffalo can sometimes seem docile, but so can a Puff Adder.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
This clip was just a failed spear throw that highlighted Lynn's prowess with the handgun - nothing more, nothing less....

A person can 'muff' a shot on DG with a medium bore rifle,then have their PH clean it up with his uber BigBore whoPPa sToppeR,
....and AR people will congratulate you on your successful hunt.

You can 'muff' your spear throw at DG and swiftly clean him up yourself with your BigBore pistol,...and you will be criticised....[go figure... ]

If he was trying to advertise the steel his compnay makes by trying to kill buffalo with a spear they make, then he had FAILED miserably!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
If he was trying to advertise the steel his compnay makes by trying to kill buffalo with a spear they make, then he had FAILED miserably!

Correct Saeed - to think this was some kind of advertisement for his spears is just silly.

Is there any other country, civilized or otherwise that offers the hunting/killing (legally of course)of any species of wildlife? Are there different "calibers" of spears available and where can the interested hunter purchase one?

I have searched far and wide but cannot locate such a destination though I must admit that back in the darker ages man did hunt with almost anything that came to hand.

Man later evolved and progressed but in some regions of the forgotten world time stood still