It's hard to judge from the video, and I have never thrown a spear (does a javelin count? ), but it didn't look to me like the guy had enough velocity on his hurl...yes/no/maybe?

All else aside, Matt, I respect your loyalty to your client/friend. I'd be honored to hunt with you one day.

quote:

but it didn't look to me like the guy had enough velocity on his hurl...yes/no/maybe?

All else aside, Matt, I respect your loyalty to your client/friend. I'd be honored to hunt with you one day.

+1

That video is funny to watch. I think Lynn just make a fool of himself. It sure does stabs hunters in the back and should not be published.


I don't think Matt did something wrong here and I don't see a reason to attack him. I actually like to see that he stands behind his clients!

I wouldn't do it for love nor money, but could care less if someone else does.
I will say this though, if Matt says he was there, I'll take his word for what happened.

Thought I would weigh in quickly. I was in camp the week before the spear guys showed up, filming for our World Of Sports Afield series. As I said on camera, these Aussie buff are less switched on than Cape buff, with some easy to approach, for sure into close range if you really worked on it. But not all bulls. Some of the bigger bulls headed out the second they saw or smelled you. With no lions, and very little human contact, I think it creates a much calmer attitude in the buffalo. Matt runs a very tight ship, and I have known him on both a personal and professional level for years. He runs an ethical hunt, and although I doubt hosting a spear hunt is his favorite, or easiest week of the season, it is a legal means of hunting in his concession.Matt has earned his reputation in this business, and he would not risk it for one film crew to get a show. Like Matt, I have pretty thin skin when someone is seen (intentional or not) to be taking shots at my reputation. That is how he obviously feels, and why he is biting back.Did I like what I saw? Hell no. It looked like an excellent way to wound animals at best, and to get people killed at worst. But it happened, was filmed, and there were questions which have been asked and answered in detail. Matt was there, I believe him on every point, and just wanted to stand up for the guy.

As far as I'm aware, no-one has criticised Matt's reputation and in fact, he only hinted he was in any way involved on the 30th (or so) post on this thread and only on the 59th (or so) post in the thread does he say he was there. (He'd previously said he wasn't there) and as far as I can see from a quick check nor does anyone even suggest the hunt was on Matt's area.

Nor has anyone suggested Matt doesn't run a good operation or that spear hunting is illegal....... some perhaps have suggested it might not be a good idea etc but no-one has suggested it might be illegal.

What has happened is the client has been insulted by some members (not by me though) with a variety of innuendo such as regarding his weight, sexuality & perhaps morality etc but Matt pretty much ignored those and instead chose to insult both Saeed and I by suggesting that we were (in his words) 'making things up' which I interpret to calling us liars.

I have indeed questioned the professionalism of his replies here and believe I was fully entitled to do so because of the tone of them but neither I nor anyone else has questioned the professionalism of his operation.

I also have to say that the sound at 2.09 still sounds to me like a gunshot but I'm only playing through my laptop speakers and am a deaf bastard with tinnitus to boot but that's how it sounds to me...... I'm sure others have better hearing and sound systems though and if they say otherwise then maybe I'm wrong in what I seem to hear.

The other people were perfectly entitled to give their view of the video.... Lynn is who he is and he is well used to criticism. But I draw the line at untruths - and will correct them. Thompson is not a slob, not by any stretch; there were no hidden rifle shots, no buffalo tied to any tree. At least Saeed admitted that he was wrong in that respect.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I also have to say that the sound at 2.09 still sounds to me like a gunshot but I'm only playing through my laptop speakers and am a deaf bastard with tinnitus to boot but that's how it sounds to me...... I'm sure others have better hearing and sound systems though and if they say otherwise then maybe I'm wrong in what I seem to hear.

You just dont seem to get it do you Steve?? What does it matter that there is a sound at bloody 2:09 - for all we know the editor put it in there!!! It is just a sound... it could be the cameraman shitting himself. It doesnt really matter, no need for a CSI investigation. The only shots that were fired came from Lynn's handgun. Please don't call me a liar.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
It's hard to judge from the video, and I have never thrown a spear (does a javelin count? ), but it didn't look to me like the guy had enough velocity on his hurl...yes/no/maybe?

All else aside, Matt, I respect your loyalty to your client/friend. I'd be honored to hunt with you one day.

With these spears velocity is almost irrelevant... except how it relates to the angle at impact and simply getting the spear to the target. Penetration is mainly a function of the weight of the spear and the angle it hits at. The spears are very heavy and very sharp and if you can get them to the target they will penetrate deeply.

We have analysed this stuff over many, many months and tonnes testing and practice.

Appreciate your comments.

Matt

I haven't called the client anything, least of all a slob nor have I suggested he had anything tied to a tree. I didn't question his weight, sexuality or morality.

Despite your suggestions otherwise, I haven't lied and nor have I even hinted that you're a liar......... All I've done is said it sounds to me like a gunshot at 2.09. Nothing more and nothing less.

As I recall, the rules here allow me to express my opinion and doesn't require me to seek your approval before I express my opinion....... so as I said previously, I reckon you need to take a chill pill and then when you've calmed down and can think clearly again, re-read my posts and try to understand simple English.

I am perfectly calm.... but you know what you can do with your chill pill....

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I am perfectly calm.... but you know what you can do with your chill pill....

I suppose pouring yourself a glass of amber relaxative is out of the question as well then?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham: With these spears velocity is almost irrelevant... except how it relates to the angle at impact and simply getting the spear to the target. Penetration is mainly a function of the weight of the spear and the angle it hits at. The spears are very heavy and very sharp and if you can get them to the target they will penetrate deeply.

Appreciate your insight!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What a bloody JOKE!

It is idiots like this slob who give hunting a bad name!

You want to go spear a buffalo?

Fine, do it alone with a SPEAR, not with someone standing by with a rifle!

Why does a spear armed hunter need to do it 'alone' to maintain respect, but its deemed commonly acceptable for rifle armed hunters to be backed-up by rifle?

...by the way, I think Thompson did just fine by rapidly & very effectively backing himself up with his .454cal
... I think PHs are most happy when they dont have to fire a shot themselves.

So let me get this straight.

Mat was nto there and had no knowledge.

Then he was rigth there.

Well nto really but he was in camp cuiding someone else.

That don't add up to me but hey maybe I am just another dumb American.



but let not bother with that.

Let's look at teh fact taht lynn thompson is a freakign ass clown. has anyone watched the video links i posted ont eh first page? Reall ? RIPPING FIRE? Shooting insedcriminatly into a building?

the guy is a self promoting buffon. He gun handling skills are poor at best and his accuracy is sad at best.

I say lets forget the "Hatfield and Macoys" or in this case the Steve/Matt fued here and focus on the buffoon who was in the video.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
So let me get this straight.

Mat was nto there and had no knowledge.

Then he was rigth there.

Well nto really but he was in camp cuiding someone else.

That don't add up to me but hey maybe I am just another dumb American.

Now that you mention it though - I can explain it to you, all detailed in the posts above. There were 2 videos being discussed. One of them (the first mentioned) I was in the area but not at the actual scene.... The second (the one with the alleged bull tied to a tree) I was right there, standing near the cameraman. OK??

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What a bloody JOKE!

It is idiots like this slob who give hunting a bad name!

You want to go spear a buffalo?

Fine, do it alone with a SPEAR, not with someone standing by with a rifle!

Why does a spear armed hunter need to do it 'alone' to maintain respect, but its deemed commonly acceptable for rifle armed hunters to be backed-up by rifle?

...by the way, I think Thompson did just fine by rapidly & very effectively backing himself up with his .454cal
... I think PHs are most happy when they dont have to fire a shot themselves.

I would be more than happy to hunt ANY animals alone with a rifle.

The fact of the matter is, most rifle hunters rarely have to have someone kill their buffalo.

Of course, the likes of Mark Sullivan are the exception.

But, from what we see on youtuibe.

Most of those who try killing a buffalo or lion with a anything but a rifle have to have someone kill their animals with a rifle.

And the mention of the Aussy buffalo not beign switched on like the cape buffalo.

That video shows that comparing cape buffalo with these pets is like comparing a wild lion with a pet pussy cat

after watching the video, 2 thoughts come to mind
1. Lynn needs more spear practice
2. Lynn needs to seriously consider a gastric bypass....

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I would be more than happy to hunt ANY animals alone with a rifle.

The fact of the matter is, most rifle hunters rarely have to have someone kill their buffalo.

Of course, the likes of Mark Sullivan are the exception.

But, from what we see on youtuibe.

Most of those who try killing a buffalo or lion with a anything but a rifle have to have someone kill their animals with a rifle.

And the mention of the Aussy buffalo not beign switched on like the cape buffalo.

That video shows that comparing cape buffalo with these pets is like comparing a wild lion with a pet pussy cat

Saeed,

It is actually the Asiatic water Buff that was introduced to Oztralia.

I like the idea of hunting DG without a PH.

I have hunted on massive size areas both private or native title, that held Asiatic Buff,Banteng, wild boar,the most venemous land snake and crocodiles,....
and never really felt it was some great risky DG adventure, At times I had the choice of a guide but was also offered to wander about the land and hunt on my own.

I am in a proffession where you have the lives of people in your hands every second you are in the air,
..and there aint nobody to back me up in the event of things going pear shaped.
Hence I like to hunt without baCkup where possible,..but will gladly take someone along who is just good company..

What you think about things like this where there are a shitload of BigBore barrels bearing down on one lion? ...

- Ted Roosevelt was an irresponsible hopeless shot with his BigBores, often requiring someone else to finish the job/clean up the mess of wounded game he created
- WDM Bell was a cool & seasoned crackshot with 7x57 and hunted DG without backup, and successfully looking after the lives of his African helpers at the same time!

Id like to think there are similar variations of skill,proficiency & personal responsibility, in those hunters
who happen to choose to launch projectiles other than HV rifle bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

That video shows that comparing cape buffalo with these pets is like comparing a wild lion with a pet pussy cat

I do not compare them (they are not even of the same genus) but what makes you say Asiatic buffalo are pussy cats I do not know?? Just because myself and the client and Lynn and his guide were able to stalk so close without being spotted .... perhaps we are just very sneaky bastards!!!

It is true that mature Asiatic buffalo are generally not so afraid of humans... but their behaviour is unpredictable and they can most certainly 'turn it on'. Perhaps one day you will come and hunt them yourself and not set your opinions based on a couple of Youtube videos that you seem to have a bit of trouble interpreting.

Matt,

May be the Aussy buffalo are suffering from the same effect as you lot!

I think I would not be normal if I lived upside on this earth

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Matt,

May be the Aussy buffalo are suffering from the same effect as you lot!

I think I would not be normal if I lived upside on this earth

Wouldn't Zimbabwe Cape buffalo act the same then??

Seriously though - adult buffalo here have no local predators, so their behaviour is different.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Matt,

May be the Aussy buffalo are suffering from the same effect as you lot!

I think I would not be normal if I lived upside on this earth

Wouldn't Zimbabwe Cape buffalo act the same then??

Seriously though - adult buffalo here have no local predators, so their behaviour is different.

Zimbabwe buffalo are only lying down, which is not half as bad as being upside down mate!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Matt,

May be the Aussy buffalo are suffering from the same effect as you lot!

I think I would not be normal if I lived upside on this earth

NO! Its just you Northern Chaps are looking at the map wrong side up as usual..

For you gents debating the "sound" of a gunshot, please keep this in mind.

In digital video editing, the sound of a gunshot that is heard and the actual moment in time in which the gunshot was taken, are often NOT in sync.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

That video shows that comparing cape buffalo with these pets is like comparing a wild lion with a pet pussy cat rotflmo

Saeed
You can get some pretty wild Bulls out there
who just because they think they are dominant will take on all comers, including vehicles !
One of the most agro Bulls I have ever shot never took a step backwards, charged vehicles, stood his ground when we stalked him, turned to charge when we hot him.

And cows with calves are another thing altogether, seen dogs tossed and people
charged just because they are there.

A whole range of factors seems to determine whether the Water Buffalo is quiet or agro.

.

The spear chuckers in these videos have earned the "Jackass Certification," they are certifiably jackasses.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
.. Everyone has different ideas about what is right and wrong and there are no set rules. At the end of the day this was a legal hunt with good intentions and the animal was killed very fast. Wringing your hands about such a clip is just wasted energy because 'antis' see ALL killing as bad. To them this may even be far more palatable than putting multiple shots into a wounded game animal in follow-up, over several hours.... Youtube abounds with that - why don't you go and single them out??

As you say Matt, most 'antis' see any form of hunting/killing as bad,
...and anyone blaming a spear hunt video more than a rifle hunt video, for huntings public image woes,
has a really poor perspective of things,..probably about as poor as the antis.
However, If anyone here can show us all a Utube hunt[using rifle,arrow,spear,knife,dogs,predatory bird,etc] that the antis are genuinely more approving of,
- please post it in a link.

Although Thompson carries on like a sensationalising buffoon,
the fact is after his muffed his spear throw, he swiftly despatched the bovine with the .454cal.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
You Tube and fidiots like this really will be the death of hunting!

Whereas detailed hunting reports with graphic photos and links to Youtube videos on AR are OK?

Amazing double standards.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
You Tube and fidiots like this really will be the death of hunting!

Whereas detailed hunting reports with graphic photos and links to Youtube videos on AR are OK?

Amazing double standards.

MB: You might have missed the heated discussion regarding detailed and graphic reports on AR mentioned many times before, met with vehement rhetoric about hunter's rights by some members to post whatever they wished as a throw-back to the bunny huggers and one-sided conservationists.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
You Tube and fidiots like this really will be the death of hunting!

Whereas detailed hunting reports with graphic photos and links to Youtube videos on AR are OK?

Amazing double standards.

It's You Tube and the fidiots that post fidiotic BS videos that will be the death of hunting..... as I see it, the vast majority of hunting videos on You Tube portray hunters in a bad light and do nothing more than give ammo to the antis in gift wrapped packaging..... the canned lion ones are embarrassing enough to watch and whilst I'm not for a moment suggesting this was a canned hunt is at least equally embarrassing and I for one can almost hear the antis rubbing their hands with glee when they watch it..... whether on AR or anywhere else.

About the only videos that I can even bear to watch are Saeed's personal ones and the Boddington ones because they're about the only ones that portray/celebrate the hunt rather than the kill.

The only way any anti-hunter would even know that one of those clips was a canned lion hunt - is when hunters tell them (or even suggest) it is canned. Those clips have been around for years - do you have any evidence that they have had a negative effect on real hunting?

To compare Thompson shooting that buffalo with a +handgun - to a canned lion video is laughable in the least.

Exactly Matt.

Steve, cutting an elephant's tail off isn't exactly sporting - tradition or not - and yet you see plenty of such activity here. If you think that image is good for hunting whereas failed YouTube spear hunts are not then you are mistaken.

By the way, Lynn shot very well with the .454. That was some fast shooting.

if he hadn't been stupid enough to try and spear him in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to shoot him. i suppose that in the right hands, a spear might get 'er done. his definitely weren't the right hands

What gives hunting a bad name is the nincompoops who are only interested in the moments of fame.

A perfect example is Mark Sulliva.

He is holding the rifle, and telling the buffalo to choose how he is going to die?!

And funny part is the many like minded nincompoops who fall for this sort of bullshit!

You feel you want to kill a buffalo by spear?

Be my guest, go ahead and do it. Using ONLY a spear! Not end up shooting it with a pistol, while another man is standing by to bail you out with his rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

You feel you want to kill a buffalo by spear?

Be my guest, go ahead and do it. Using ONLY a spear! Not end up shooting it with a pistol, while another man is standing by to bail you out with his rifle.

I guess he doesnt have to please or appease you though Saeed. Can do what he wants, when he wants.

Lynn didnt even post this video of himself...

Why not do it the other way around??.

Tease a buffalo with a peewee pistol and ends up with killing it with a spear during the charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
To compare Thompson shooting that buffalo with a +handgun - to a canned lion video is laughable in the least.

Matt

As you've consistently done throughout this thread, you've missed my point entirely........ I made a point of saying:

"whilst I'm not for a moment suggesting this was a canned hunt"

and then went on to say it:

"is at least equally embarrassing"

I'm not comparing the man or the hunt to a canned hunt....... Instead, I'm comparing the video and perhaps the fidiot that had the bright idea of posting such a ridiculous monument of stupidity as a gift to the world of anti hunting.

I'm not even criticising spear hunting. I don't know enough about it to comment on it and frankly, am not interested enough to look into it. As far as I'm concerned, he can sneak up and shag the thing to death if he want to but to put it on you tube is asking for trouble and/or criticism....... some things are better left in the bush and (IMO) a failed spear hunt is one of those things.

Do I have any evidence that they have had a negative effect on real hunting?

No I don't but do you have any proof that they won't or haven't either now or at some time in the future?

If I was an anti, I'd be collecting all these dumb arse videos with the intention of using which ever I wanted whenever I felt the time is right in the future.

And I'll bet that sooner or later, that's exactly what will happen.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

Do I have any evidence that they have had a negative effect on real hunting?

No I don't but do you have any proof that they won't or haven't either now or at some time in the future?

If I was an anti, I'd be collecting all these dumb arse videos with the intention of using which ever I wanted whenever I felt the time is right in the future.

And I'll bet that sooner or later, that's exactly what will happen.

I guess you just proved that it is an 'imagined threat' only, at this stage.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Be my guest, go ahead and do it. Using ONLY a spear! Not end up shooting it with a pistol, while another man is standing by to bail you out with his rifle.

that ouTlook is fine as long as one applies it to rifle hunters as well.

If a PH accepts clients who hunt DG with 9,3x62 or .375, but the PH feels he needs a .450 or .570 cal to sort any problems out,
it may indicate that a PH for the sake of profit, will tolerate clients who want to perform such 'stunts' with less capable weapons,
which the PH considers somewhat inappropriate.
...as long as a bigbore armed PH is prepared to cater to the whims & desires of the client with less powerful medium bore,
why should he not also cater to the whims & desires of clients who want to hunt with less powerful spear or bow.

Either way the PH is compensating for the transgression in the clients capabilities and chosen weapon.

...or are you suggesting that clients who hunt DG with spear, should only be backed up by PHs with a larger 'stopping' spear?...

Succesfully hunting with spear is no easy task,... rifles certainly make hunting easier.