Buffalo calf tied to a tree

Matt,

Look at the clip about at about 1.10 and you will see the long haired guy and the buffalo tied with a red rope!

South African lion industry gotten themselves into deep water with their canned lions.

What do you think this sort of thing posted on youtube will give the Australian buffalo hunting industry?

I know, this might be just one outfitter doing it, but will that help?

This is the sort of thing that gives us hunters a bad name, and I really could not care less who is involved!

You aren't listening to me Saeed. There is no buffalo calf tied to a tree.... that is a mature buffalo bull (nothing like the buffalo in the other Thompson clip - anyone can see that) . The red rope that you are imagining ... is in fact a spear stuck into the tree. I know that because I was standing 30 feet away.

You and Steve are just making stuff up!!!

Time to retract now please Saeed...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Buffalo calf tied to a tree

This is the sort of thing that gives us hunters a bad name, and I really could not care less who is involved!

I have no say in what clients post on Youtube.

IMO - you talking smack on here about buffalo tied to trees equally has the potential to give hunters a bad name.

Matt,

I am not blaming you for anything.

My objection is to idiots like these who do things and post them on youtube.

This sort of thing has only negative effect on us.

Someone wants to play silly buggers with a buffalo and pretend to be so brave, fine just don't post it on youtube.

By the way, was this particular "hunt" done on your concession?

Was that long haired guy who untied the buffalo one of your employees?

I just looked at the videos again.


I cannot see the rope you are talking about
and I blew up the screen to full size and slowed
the video down.


Shakari and others - re the shot at 2.10 or so before Lynn has his hand on his gun, I think if you look closely it is the spear hitting the Termite mound and either coming out or breaking as something flies through the air and it looks a lot like a spear shaft.

It could have been a branch of a tree snapping behind the termite mound or flicking back and hitting it but more likely from the video to be the spear shaft.


Matt might be able to say whether the spear broke or not or whether it came out.

Well I just looked at it closely again.

Lynn's spear hit the Horn of the animal at 2.07
- that's one very hollow sound that could be thought of as a gunshot.

The spear comes out and flies back past the Termite mount. The sound could be the spear coming out or the spear hitting the termite mound.

Re: "buffalo calf tied to a tree"

That 'red rope' [at 1.10] appears to be more like the spear he has just thrust at the bovine.[now embedded in base of the tree]
[a rope would not wobble-spring/flex up and down like that]

...aside from that, the talk behind the video is IMO, tacky.

I found being in such country with Buffalo,Banteng,wild boar,Taipans & CrockOdiles,...enjoyable but not at all dangerous.
Maybe I just see things the way they are, rather than how promotionalists choose to senstionalize-emotively describe.

505G,

Would you please take a closer look at the link I posted above and see what is that red thing wobbling about at abou 1.10?

I would download the video and look at it frame by frame myself, but my video PC is busy processing a long safari video.


Let us assume that the buffalo was NOT tied to a tree, would anyone in his right mind think that is a wild buffalo?

The long haired guy almost touches it, while approaching it in plane view?

If anyone believes that, I have a tropical island to sell them, it is in Antarctica!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
505G,

Would you please take a closer look at the link I posted above and see what is that red thing wobbling about at abou 1.10?

I would download the video and look at it frame by frame myself, but my video PC is busy processing a long safari video.


Let us assume that the buffalo was NOT tied to a tree, would anyone in his right mind think that is a wild buffalo?

The long haired guy almost touches it, while approaching it in plane view?

If anyone believes that, I have a tropical island to sell them, it is in Antarctica!

Earth to Saeed - come in Saeed.

As I have said twice already... I was thirty feet away from that buffalo and it was not tied to anything, it was a mature wild buffalo bull that was asleep under that tree.... for all I know it is still living today, as it was not hit with the spear. Yes it was one of my hunting concessions.

In explanation - the bull was asleep under a tree, facing the other direction. Hunter (client) stalks to within 6m and throws the spear but the tree is partially covering the vitals ... and as Murphy's Law dictates.... the spear hits the tree dead-centre. Hunter turns and runs back to the others in the party and the buffalo stands and trys to determine what is going on. We manage to get the buffalo to move off without having to shoot it... none of us the worse for wear.

The camera angle makes it look like the hunter is within touching distance of the bull.

This clip is a promo reel for their TV show.

Matt,

Hang on a minute there Bwana...... you've just accused me of making things up. In other words you're calling me a liar and that's simply not on even by Aussie rules.

I said it sounds to me like a gunshot at about 2.09 and I stand by those words. You don't have to prove anything to me nor do you have to send me the address of some bloke I don't know from a bar of soap.......... but that still sounds to me like a gunshot at 2.09. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but that's what it sounds like to me.

I pointed out that it looked like a super mega bugly stuff up and I doubt many would disagree with that..... to me, although he did well to get that close to even a youngster it was hardly a well executed and successful hunt.

My other comment (which I've made many times) was that You Tube will be the death of hunting and stupid video clips like this are tip top examples of that statement. Anyone who believes such film isn't putting material straight into the hands of antis that they can then use against us is truly fucking deranged!

OK Steve - you believe what you want... I am just telling that you are mistaken and there was no rifleshot... I even offered to put you in touch with the guy you are suggesting fired that rifle. I even named him so people are sure who you are talking crap about.

As for the stuff-up... yes it was a failed stalk and shot with a spear ... ably backed-up by a handgun. Big deal?? Who cares?? They posted it show how he backed himself up with a handgun (quite well too I might add) and to give credit to the punchy buffalo... nothing more, nothing less. The spear hunt was only to show how they got to that point.

Youtube - yes I share your concerns but we are going to have to live with it. Everyone has different ideas about what is right and wrong and there are no set rules. At the end of the day this was a legal hunt with good intentions and the animal was killed very fast. Wringing your hands about such a clip is just wasted energy because 'antis' see ALL killing as bad. To them this may even be far more palatable than putting multiple shots into a wounded game animal in follow-up, over several hours.... Youtube abounds with that - why don't you go and single them out??

'truly fucking deranged'... that's a pretty harsh thing to say. I thought you were a gentleman.

Perhaps a gentleman that doesn't appreciate being called a liar.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt,

Hang on a minute there Bwana...... you've just accused me of making things up. In other words you're calling me a liar and that's simply not on even by Aussie rules.

Further, I am not calling you a liar at all. But if you dont retract your bullshit accusations you will be calling ME a liar because I do KNOW what happened.

Matt

Re-read my posts. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm just saying it sounds to me like there's a shot at 2.09.

I might be right or wrong but I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

You need to take a chill pill and then go back and calmly re-read my comments.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

You need to take a chill pill and then go back and calmly re-read my comments.

I dont need a chill-pill.

NO - you need to reread what I am writing - YOU ARE WRONG!!!

Matt

You do need a chill pill mate.

I've already said I might be right or wrong in what it sounds to like I hear on the video but I've never made any accusations and that's what you're quite plainly suggesting.

quote:

I found being in such country with Buffalo,Banteng,wild boar,Taipans & CrockOdiles,...enjoyable but not at all dangerous.
Maybe I just see things the way they are, rather than how promotionalists choose to senstionalize-emotively describe.

Trax

"enjoyable but not at all dangerous"


OK, go a few times and eventually something will turn to shit and you will face a charge from a Scrub Bull or a Buffalo. And re crocs, well, stick your foot in the water next time and shake it around and then wait, you WILL
get taken.


PH's, such as Matt do as much as possible to make sure that the clients don't get into dangerous situations but it sometimes happens which is why they are there.

As an example of it turning to shit,
check this out. The PH is a mate of mine
and dropped it with a 470.

I've been in the exact same situation but dropped them closer than that and the charge was not my doing !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXUwWxBiG6g

.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Not only a super mega bugly stuff up but a magical one at that.

Check the slo-mo at 2.10 when the first shot is fired before he's even got the handgun out of it's holster.

Not that I'm suggesting there's someone off camera with a rifle ready to keep his arse safe.

CRAP.... Of course there is someone off camera with a rifle - they are called a guide!!!!!!!!! You seem to be suggesting that is a bad thing!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

The biggest problem for me is that there is no mention of someone off camera taking action to keep him safe. He appears on screen and gives it the 'big un' about how wonderful he and his handgun are but the film shows quite clearly that a shot goes off before he even has the hand gun drawn.

CRAP.... the PH is clearly there at the start of the clip... standing there holding a rifle!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

As for trying to use a spear etc....... I personally wouldn't want to do it but if he does, then that's his choice but I have to say, I think if he's gonna do it, he should do it to a mature bull rather than an animal that's virtually got milk on it's lips still.

Talking crap... how do you know he didn't try to get mature bulls?? And who cares that he tried to kill a young bull - is that any reason to run the guy down here??

No you aren't lying Steve ... you are just using your overly-fertilised imagination too much.

Saeed

OK, have re played the video 4 or 5 times slowly,
frame by frame and I cannot see any rope.


Secondly, can I point out that I have walked up on resting / sleeping Buffalo with mates quite often. I am not talking semi farmed Buffalo, I am talking Wild Buffalo in remote areas. I know the difference as I shoot on both places.

It comes down to
1. Seeing the Buff before they see, hear or smell you.
2. Everything going in your favour in terms of wind, ground etc
3. Last but not least, the ability to be able to stalk well without making any noise.


So stalking up on Buff in Australia is possible.
Even more so if they are in a wallow which that one wasn't.

I reckon he did a good job of getting that close to it.

.

Matt,

I'm commenting on what the video appears to show as I interpret it..... nothing more and nothing less and I've even said he did a good job of getting that close, albeit to a young animal but would have thought if they'd done the same to a mature one, they'd have selected that as a preferable piece of film but there you go. I guess if they had the bad taste to post that clip, there's probably no reason to expect better taste in posting a better clip.

I hope you'll forgive me for saying so but I reckon you still need that chill pill mate because your unreasonable, unwarranted and infantile rants and accusations really aren't doing you any favours at the moment.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt,

I'm commenting on what the video appears to show as I interpret it..... nothing more and nothing less and I've even said he did a good job of getting that close, albeit to a young animal but would have thought if they'd done the same to a mature one, they'd have selected that as a preferable piece of film but there you go. I guess if they had the bad taste to post that clip, there's probably no reason to expect better taste in posting a better clip.

Yeah - why not just throw out a bit more speculation!!!!!!! you dont seem to be getting it through your skull - THAT I WAS THERE... I know pretty much everything about these videos that you might want to know.... you only have to ask and I will tell you the truth. Stop speculating and spreading bullshit!! This isn't '60 minutes'...

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

I hope you'll forgive me for saying so but I reckon you still need that chill pill mate because your unreasonable, unwarranted and infantile rants and accusations really aren't doing you any favours at the moment.

This final piece of condescension is just the lowest of the low... yes, you have reached a new low Steve!

I don't think it's me that's looking foolish or unreasonable at this point in time mate...... but if you want to continue ranting and making a fool of yourself instead of presenting a well reasoned and polite explanation to what not only I think is (at the very least) an ill advised bit of film then go ahead and fill your boots.

Matt, my appologies.

The calf was not tied. What I mistock for a rope was the red spear wobbling about whiler stuck in the tree.

quote:

I guess if they had the bad taste to post that clip, there's probably no reason to expect better taste in posting a better clip. Roll Eyes

Shakari


Why are you taking it out on Matt ?

Matt is not responsible for what clients videotape and post on the internet.

The guy was a paying client, Matt is in the business of providing guiding and hunting services for game in Australia by any legal method.

Why would he turn down Lynn's money ?


Some might not agree with how others hunt and what they hunt with but we are not rhe one's hunting. At least Lynn had back up in his pistol and someone else with a rifle.


And before someone suggests Aussies supporting Aussies, I hardly speak to Matt and have had many a blazing row with him over various things over the years but one thing is, he does run a good Safari operation.

.

1. Right, I didn't see a rope either.

2. A buffalo with a spear. Really, I admire the guy for trying but he was an idiot for trying to spear it in the back and even more of one for thinking he had any chance of killing it that way. A sword between the shoulder blades works in a bull ring with a bull fighter but Lynn baby should have taken a broadside shot.

3. There is definitely a shot fired before Lynn had any chance of getting one off into the buffalo. Following that are several shots in rapid succession that sound like they probably came from a different gun; possibly Lynns.

4. The buffalo was small but big enough to kill you. It wouldn't qualify for a trophy but would for dangerous game.

5. If you look at Lynn's other videos that were gratuitously posted, you can see Lynn hitting numerous animals, some running, with an open sighted handgun. Those shots aren't easy and are a testimony to pure luck (I don't think so), a fairly accurate handgun and/or a good shooter.

Personally, I think ya'll should give Lynn his due even if you don't choose to do things that way.

One further question; it mentions that Lynn used his handgun which I would take to mean his own. I was under the impression that one could not temporarily import one's own handgun into Australia to hunt.

It looks like a lot of fun; I'd like to do it some time if I could use my own handgun.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Matt, my appologies.

The calf was not tied. What I mistock for a rope was the red spear wobbling about whiler stuck in the tree.

No worries mate - but it wasn't a calf, it was about an eight year old bull!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Matt, my appologies.

The calf was not tied. What I mistock for a rope was the red spear wobbling about whiler stuck in the tree.

No worries mate - but it wasn't a calf, it was about an eight year old bull!!!

I thought those bulls had much bigger horns

Matt

Just as an example of how silly you're making yourself look:

You first say:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I already did explain - it was not a gunshot, did not sound like a gunshot - was most likely the spear hitting the termite mound and flying forwards as you can clearly see (well I can). No I was not in the editing room, no I was not standing right there but I can tell you the guide nor anyone else fired a rifle... or anything else apart from the handgun on Thompson's side.

And then later on you say:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
you dont seem to be getting it through your skull - THAT I WAS THERE ... I know pretty much everything about these videos that you might want to know.... you only have to ask and I will tell you the truth. Stop speculating and spreading bullshit!! This isn't '60 minutes'...

Which begs the question: were you or were you not there?

If you were there and had said so in the first place, then you could have given a reasoned explanation instead of making yourself look like an adolescent teenage girl throwing a tantrum and hurling unwarranted insults at people....... if you'd wanted to do that, you might have had reason to do it to others here who have insulted the bloke in question but all I've done is said I thought I could hear a gunshot at 2.09 and that videos such as these don't do hunting any favours.

505G

Where have I had a pop at Matt? ....... all I've done is pointed out in a perfectly reasonable and logical way what it appears to look and sound like to me..... nothing more and nothing less.

If anything, he's the one that's popping at me without reason not the other way around!

Nor incidentally have I ever suggested he doesn't run a good hunting operation as you suggest. In fact, if someone asked me about Aussie hunting, Matt is probably the bloke I would have suggested they go to........ Now I'm not so sure because I reckon he's presented himself in a highly unprofessional manner in this debate and that might possibly make me nervous about recommending him further.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

2. A buffalo with a spear. Really, I admire the guy for trying but he was an idiot for trying to spear it in the back and even more of one for thinking he had any chance of killing it that way. A sword between the shoulder blades works in a bull ring with a bull fighter but Lynn baby should have taken a broadside shot.

3. There is definitely a shot fired before Lynn had any chance of getting one off into the buffalo. Following that are several shots in rapid succession that sound like they probably came from a different gun; possibly Lynns.

4. The buffalo was small but big enough to kill you. It wouldn't qualify for a trophy but would for dangerous game.

5. If you look at Lynn's other videos that were gratuitously posted, you can see Lynn hitting numerous animals, some running, with an open sighted handgun. Those shots aren't easy and are a testimony to pure luck (I don't think so), a fairly accurate handgun and/or a good shooter.

Personally, I think ya'll should give Lynn his due even if you don't choose to do things that way.

One further question; it mentions that Lynn used his handgun which I would take to mean his own. I was under the impression that one could not temporarily import one's own handgun into Australia to hunt.

2.The shot was broadside - the way the spear drops it must travel very high in order for it to drop into the chest. That shot would have hit it mid shoulder and angled down into the vitals. It actually would have been a very good throw I think but the buffalo blocked it, just as we told him it would.

3. As stated - there are NO other shots fired apart from the 5 shots Lynn fired from the handgun. If you read mny previous posts you will see that I categorically stated that the bull was killed with the first shot to the back of the head. The other four shots he pumped into it because he could and wasnt sure if was going to get up. The guide did not fire.

4. True

5. "Those shots aren't easy and are a testimony to pure luck (I don't think so), a fairly accurate handgun and/or a good shooter." Certainly a case of all three but mostly it is that Lynn is a very, very good handgun shot, when his mind is focused.

6. The two handguns used in the clips are owned by me but Lynn purchased them originally, so that he would have a handgun to use here, when he comes to hunt. You are correct, you cannot import a handgun to Australia for the purpose of safari hunting... but you can use mine if hunting in the NT.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Matt

Just as an example of how silly you're making yourself look:

You first say:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I already did explain - it was not a gunshot, did not sound like a gunshot - was most likely the spear hitting the termite mound and flying forwards as you can clearly see (well I can). No I was not in the editing room, no I was not standing right there but I can tell you the guide nor anyone else fired a rifle... or anything else apart from the handgun on Thompson's side.

And then later on you say:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
you dont seem to be getting it through your skull - THAT I WAS THERE ... I know pretty much everything about these videos that you might want to know.... you only have to ask and I will tell you the truth. Stop speculating and spreading bullshit!! This isn't '60 minutes'...

Which begs the question: were you or were you not there?

If you were there and had said so in the first place, then you could have given a reasoned explanation instead of making yourself look like an adolescent teenage girl throwing a tantrum and hurling unwarranted insults at people....... if you'd wanted to do that, you might have had reason to do it to others here who have insulted the bloke in question but all I've done is said I thought I could hear a gunshot at 2.09 and that videos such as these don't do hunting any favours.

505G

Where have I had a pop at Matt? ....... all I've done is pointed out in a perfectly reasonable and logical way what it appears to look and sound like to me..... nothing more and nothing less.

If anything, he's the one that's popping at me without reason not the other way around!

Nor incidentally have I ever suggested he doesn't run a good hunting operation as you suggest. In fact, if someone asked me about Aussie hunting, Matt is probably the bloke I would have suggested they go to........ Now I'm not so sure because I reckon he's presented himself in a highly unprofessional manner in this debate and that might possibly make me nervous about recommending him further.

Seriously - I don't have time to address this petty drivel. Yes I was there in the camp, but not right there in that clip. I was guiding the other hunters who were apparently tying and untying buffalo to trees I have discussed this incident 100 times over with all the participants... I have a pretty damn good idea of what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Now I'm not so sure because I reckon he's presented himself in a highly unprofessional manner in this debate and that might possibly make me nervous about recommending him further.

Nope - you've just hit a record new low...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I thought those bulls had much bigger horns

They get bigger as they get older!!!

Matt,

I'm sincerely sorry that I feel that way but the truth is the attitude of your replies to my posts have not only been bizarre but as I read them, also far from the level of professionalism that I'd have expected from you and therefore, I have to say what I feel. I'm not surprised that my comment put your nose out of joint but that's just how it is.

As I stated in a previous post, if you'd said in the first place that you were there or on camp or whatever and given a reasoned explanation then not only would it have avoided your man getting a lot of needless stick it would also have allowed you to remain far more professional in your replies.

Those problems are yours not mine and the more you respond in the manner you are the worse you're making yourself look.

Which takes us back to that chill pill I suggested.

Good grief.... which part of

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
We oversee these hunts very carefully and seriously.

in one of my early posts - left you with any doubt that I knew quite a lot about what was going on in those clips.

Shit, it's okay for you to throw words like 'unprofessional' around .... but no one can question you miLord can they?? No skin off your nose is it??

No need to call me Mi' Lord mate. Although I'm now retired, I've never been ashamed to be what us Brits term working class.

We're not talking about me but if we were, my replies are pretty much always courteous, reasoned, well informed and logical........ yours however have been the direct opposite and that's why we're talking about your lack of professionalism and not mine.

As I posted earlier, you need to go back and re-read what I've said and then you might realise that your replies to me have been unwarranted, unreasonable and although you somewhat ungraciously withdrew the allegation later, in the case of when you called me a liar........ plain fucking rude.

Admittedly, it's no skin of my nose if you make yourself look illogical and as dumb as a sack of spanners with your ridiculous comments but it is when you insult me for no good reason.

"Pretty much always courteous"

I never called you a liar... I said that you and Saeed were making stuff up - you know ... make believe, imagining things. Saeed was sure he could see a buffalo tied to a tree, where none existed. You said you could hear gunshots on the Youtube clip that I assured you did not exist. I told you that I was heavily involved but you still seem to ignore the fact that I did give you that heads-up. Perhaps you wanted it in some other language??

Matt,

I just can't believe how you're continually shooting yourself not in just one foot but in both..... Doesn't it hurt when you keep doing it?



I think I'll try to save you further embarrassing yourself by trying not to comment further.

Right.... so you've got .... nothing.

Still a damb funny clip...