Hammer's post has motivated me to post this poll. Double rifles are talked a lot about here on AR and I was wondering what percentage of members have actually used or plan to use a double as opposed to bolt rifle for DG. I'm thinking at least 95% bolt rifles and 5% boubles but I may be way off.

Mark

Question:
How many people that have hunted or plan to hunt DG have or would use a double as opposed to a bolt rifle?

Choices:
I have or will use a double
I have or will use a bolt rifle
I have or will use a double with a bolt rifle for a longer shot?

 

What's the matter? No one wants to play?

There is the good and the bad for bolts and doubles. You just have to hope you have the correct one in your hands when the time comes.

I had to vote for my old mod 70 375 H&H purely for economic reasons. I would love to have a double, but the money I don't spend on the gun will be spent on increasing the time and animals taken on the safari.

I've been a bolt guy for nigh on to 50 years. When it came time to acquire a DG rifle I seriously considered a double. I'm a lefty, and Krieghoff made me a very attractive offer on a LH 470 at SCI a few years ago. Considering that buff are shot at fairly long ranges these days, and that I would not likely hunt ele, I decided to stay with the bolt. No regrets.

I think guys with lots of shotgun experience, esp. doubles, get along better with DR's.

I have no idea how to answer the poll question. I have hunted DG with both bolt and double guns. Would I use a bolt or double for dangerous game in the furure of course I would, I might in fact use a single shot.

I'm 64 yrs old and for at least the last 25 have been searching for that mythical double that comes alive in your hands. The sauer double seemed O.K. but wasn't traditional enough,the Merkel has too much drop and is barrel heavy, the Chapius is just barrel heavy, I like the idea of the Searcy but is increasing in price faster than my ability to buy . Luke Samaras shared with me that he felt the English doubles were the most likely to come alive in your hands and further indicated he felt the best bolt guns were made in the U.S.A.. The Heym is still out there and I'd like to examine it but it appears I'll be hunting the same old way . With a M70 african 416R. Is there really a reasonably priced, well balanced double out there.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I have no idea how to answer the poll question. I have hunted DG with both bolt and double guns. Would I use a bolt or double for dangerous game in the furure of course I would, I might in fact use a single shot.

I voted for the double with a bolt for back-up! Like Zim, I couldn't answer the question because it doesn't have an "ALL OF THE ABOVE" catagory. The one thing I can say is I always have a double rifle if hunting dangerous game, and I seldom hunt anything other than dangerous game. Still many times I have a scoped bolt rifle along, but it is always one of legal size to take the place of my double, if need be!

I've been known to take both rifles in S/S double rifle configuration. A large express sighted big double, and my small rifle a scoped 9.3 double! So I guess, I would have to vote all of the above to answer truthfully!

I have spent untold hours confusing myself by the engineers plague - analysis paralysis.
I stuck with a bolt because I have yet to figure out what I want. I want it all- and that is the problem.

I think most people don't know anything about rifles or shooting them.I think they buy a double because they want to take part in the FAD or because they are just bored.You know,I WANT A DOHBLE. If you want to shoot just two without the help of a scope,you better be a good marksman.If you can do with a scopeless double what you can do with a scoped bolt rifle out to 150 yds ,then you have style.

I have been shooting bolt-actions for 30 years. I just like them and am comfortable with them. I have shot dangerous game with them. I think in a true charge situation the double is the best. If I was a PH, I would probably carry a double. That said, a truly well placed first shot is awfully hard to beat. In hunting, it is hard to know exactly how far and under what situation you might need to take that first shot. I feel more comfortable taking it with an accurate scoped bolt-action. But If I was a PH and following wounded game for most of my shooting, a double makes good sense. So I vote for a scoped bolt-action for the primary hunter and a double for a PH. Doubles cost the expense of a whole safari too. Another reason I shoot a bolt-action. I would truly love to own and shoot a good double though.

WHAT! no leverguns?


it is a matter of style...i would like to do both before i get too old to do it or to care. double for close work, bolt for distance or both may we all be so lucky.

I just picked up a double.

I am probably hunting Buff in 2009.

I will bring my Merkel and then a Model 70 in .416 Rem.

I would like to kill the buff with the Double if shot/distance presents itself. If the shot is longer I will use the .416 then the .470 for follow up. We shall see.

quote:

Is there really a reasonably priced, well balanced double out there.

It's a personal thing. I use a Krieghoff with a mercury tube in the butt as suggested by the factory. Makes all the differenc in the world.

Gives on a warm fuzzy feeling when skulking through the long grass.

My two rifles in Africa are a scoped Model 70 in .375H&H and a Searcy .470NE.

Any questions?

On all 3 of my Zim Safaris I have used doubles.
A 450 No2 and a scoped 9,3x74R on the first 2.

On the third I took my wife [and thus more guns].
I used the 9,3x74R [scoped], and my 450/400 [the first time I had the 400 in Africa] and my 450 No2.

I did use the Blaser R 93 in 308 for a bushbuck, heyena, and a honeybadger [while in a leopard blind].

I much prefer the double for most hunting.

While hunting I have never had a double, and wished for a bolt rifle...

However, I had a bolt rifle once, saw this gorilla... and sure wished I had my 450 No2.

The Bolt 458, well handled save my life, but I would have felt MO BETTER with the double.

I like shoot shooting DG [all game in fact] up close, especially elephants, I think for that the double is the best BY FAR.

I have not found it a "handicap" for shots at game out to 200 yards, and I have stretched it out to 300 on a few occasions.

Besides when you kill DG with a double you look good doing it.

quote:

Besides when you kill DG with a double you look good doing it.

On my plains game hunt to Namibia.I took a 375 and 416. I just wanted to see if I could learn to use the big guns. I was surprised that the game just did not evaporate when shot.. My blue wildebeest shot through the heart with the 416 ran 300 yards, a zebra shot through the flank and out the off shoulder ran at least 200 yards.
I decided then if I get to go after buff, I would go with the biggest gun I could shoot.
I picked up a 602 in 458 win mag. Before I got a chance to shoot it , I was able to find a great deal on a Merkel 140 in 470. The 64 $ question is what bolt guns I will sell. I gon't need a 93X74 375 H&H, 416 Rem mag, 458 win mag,
for one more trip to Africia.

JD

double guns are alot like women - two barrels are much more attractive than 1

Butch- Do you like the ones with the bigger barrels?

So far this is pretty interesting. Almost 1/3 favor the double. Much more than I would have guessed. This brings up more questions for me.

1. Do people favor the double because they really think it is a superior tool for the job or mostly because it is sexy with a strong nostalgia factor? It seems to me it is only superior under very limited conditions but it definitely is appealing for several other reasons.

2. If given a choice between a trophy fee for a trophy bull elephant and $12,000 toward the purchase of the double of your choice would anyone choose the double?

3. Would the fact that a PH carried a double influence your confidence in his ability to handle himself in a dicey situation?

Personally I've not really got my head around the strong appeal of the double rifle. I definitely can see a number of reasons to buy one but I've not seen anything that makes me strongly consider buying one because I need it for my next safari. Maybe this thread will provide some insight.

Mark

As a result of speaking with Mark/Adam, I am going to Zambia in '08 (still looking for those August dates though, Mark ) and will be taking a 450 3.25 NE double and a 404 Jeffery. How's that for a combo? I will be hunting leopard and buff....and might be forced to shoot a puku and a Chobe bushbuck..if I see a nice orange one...to go with my Limpopo.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI

I voted for the double with a bolt action for longer shots. I am taking my Merkel 500 NE for buffalo and my mod 70 375 H&H for plains game this year in Zim.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:

1. Do people favor the double because they really think it is a superior tool for the job or mostly because it is sexy with a strong nostalgia factor?

Mark

Considering that it is customary for DG hunters to hunt animals that can fight back at close range, as compared to long range sniper hunting for placid African plains game or deer in the USA, the circumstances around such a hunt inherently bring along different needs and tools.
The need for a stopping weapon that can fire more than one shot quickly is found in probably this one circumstance over all the other hunting opportunities in the world. Few hunters face brown bears at 20 yards, but elephant hunters take pride in such an encounter.
There's no other legal weapon in Africa yet designed that more aptly brings to the table the combination of a heavy load and a quick follow-up than a double rifle.
When it comes to whacking buffalo with 100 yard shots a bolt-action is ideal, but if you're following a wounded bull in the long-grass, with such, are you really ready?
The romance of a double is certainly there, but even more can be the lingering practicality.

Just my personal thoughts:

1. I have shot only 1 buff (with bolt) and that is enough that concerns trophy need for me, now I can put more efforts in, to enjoy The Hunt - getting close - no scope just open sights - definitively double next time.

2. I would exchange it for a Merkel double in 9,3 and 3 buffalo trophy fees...

3. Never...say never

I "discovered" just how good a general purpose hunting gun a double is after using my scoped 9,3x74R.

I have taken quite a bit of game in North America with iron sights on the 9,3, including 2 black bears.

In fact the year before my first Safari I "forced" myself to use the scope for deer and pig hunting here in Texas. I also shot a couple of coyotes with it.

I tested it to 300 yards.

I like a scoped double so much that I before my last Safari I scoped my British 450/400 3 1/4".

The scope really enhanced the usefullness and hitibility of the 400.

NE

Everything you just said about scoped doubles makes sense to me but doesn't the scope negate the essence of the double rifle? I thought a good piece of the double's appeal was that you only used it once you could smell the animals breath therefore eliminating the need for only the most basic sights.

I guess what eludes me is what would convince the average hunter that a double was necessary in place of a good bolt rifle. In reality is the chance of the average guy having to stop a charge on his own so great that he needs a rifle that is 4-5 times more expensive than a very nice bolt gun?

Mark

Mark, I cannot address question 1 as I have not shot one in anger.

On No. 2 - I would spend the money to hunt with and use a rented gun (if required).

On No. 3 - No, I am pleased that the PH has double but am more concerned that he is a good shot.

I like the romance of a double, but the best and most experienced hunter I know (he has taken every huntable animal in Africa and North America except Mt. Nyala) does not care one wit for the rifle he shoots. He likes a bolt gun only and is not picky about the action. He shoots a Model 700 in a .458 WM and a Weatherby .460. He just returned from a trip to Bots for elephant and is headed to Zambia for buff and other stuff.

I am not very keen on taking a gun worth more than $5,000 on a trip for worries of theft or damage. I prefer to take a gun that would not cripple me if it were lost or damaged badly.

Mark
It depends on what and how you are hunting.

Any scope on a double should be QD IMHO.

When hunting plains game I always had the scope on the 9,3.
When I hunted elephant with it I took the scope off.
When I hunted cape buff I kknew I would be shooting at last light, I had the scope on it.

When I hunted with the 400 I had the scope off for buff and elephant, but I did put it on for the shots at the lion.

I have found the double with a scope in QD mounjts to be superior to a bolt rifle for most hunting.

The one exception is when you expect longish shots as a rule rather than the possible exception.

When hunting with one of my doubles I have never had to turn down a shot because I thought it was to far.

Also let me add that I have found the immediately avialable second shot to be of more value than a magazine full of cartridges in a bolt rifle.
This is true for normal hunting not just charges.

[
However, I had a bolt rifle once, saw this gorilla... and sure wished I had my 450 No2.

The Bolt 458, well handled save my life, but I would have felt MO BETTER with the double.[/QUOTE]

I bet the thought of wanting the 450 No2 was the second thing that crossed your mind (first thought was oh sxxt!).
A gorilla might be able to bat down a dart but it's hard to bat down a 458 bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
NE

Everything you just said about scoped doubles makes sense to me but doesn't the scope negate the essence of the double rifle? I thought a good piece of the double's appeal was that you only used it once you could smell the animals breath therefore eliminating the need for only the most basic sights.

I guess what eludes me is what would convince the average hunter that a double was necessary in place of a good bolt rifle. In reality is the chance of the average guy having to stop a charge on his own so great that he needs a rifle that is 4-5 times more expensive than a very nice bolt gun?

Mark

MARK, the double rifle that sports a scope sight is used exactly opposite to the way a scoped bolt rifle is used! Where the bolt rifle's primary sighting system is the scope, and the irons are back-up, so that the bolt rifle is carried most of the time with the scope mounted. The double that hsa scope is carried most of the time without the scope onboard, and is only fitted when the need arises, and the scope is carried most of the time in a container (like the new AFRICASE, from Eleko) in the day pack, or on the belt! Both bolt, and double should have a scope, if they are to be at their best all the time.

I think your take on the double rifle is a little off, because all doubles are not stopping rifles, andy more than all bolt rifles. I would say most bolt rifles that are in the stopping format, are carried most time with iron sights, just like the big bore (.400 cal up) doubles.

IMO, a DGR, if mounted with a scope should be in quality QD rings, and bases, and have quality iron sights as well. I also know several people who have 470NE doubles with QD scopes in addtion to the irons. It only makes sence to cover as many bases as you can, with a FIGHTING rifle! In fact with CATS, a bolt rifle would benifite, greatly from a Bayonet at times!

While the appeal of a double is great.For a little old weakling like me; I've yet to handle one that feels light enough to carry all day in the bush. My scoped bolt 375 weighs 8.5 ready to go and its all I feel like lugging around. The doubles sure are pretty though.

I subscribe to what Finn Agaard said one time: "There is no situation even in DG hunting that a low power scope is not superior and quicker than iron sights."

Studdog

You'd be surprised at some of the double weights.

In 9.3 X 74 (which is very close to the 375), both Merkel and Heym make them at 7 pounds or a little over. The Chapuis' I have handled cannot be more than 8 pounds.

My 470 NE comes in at a "sporty" 9.5 pounds. I use a PAST recoil shoulder pad at the range for load development and cobweb cleaning, and have frankly never noticed recoil when hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

However, I had a bolt rifle once, saw this gorilla... and sure wished I had my 450 No2.

The Bolt 458, well handled save my life, but I would have felt MO BETTER with the double.

Just so no one gets any strange ideas, this was in a perfectly legal setting.

Jim Manion, I've used doubles and O/U on birds alot and I far preferred them to other actions. In DG rifles I don't think the 9.3 is up to legal min. If I saw a nice light double in 450/400 or so I'd be tempted. The shorter overall lenght of the double is also highly desirable to me.

Let's get real.

There is nothing quite so romantic as a double rifle.

I would doubt that many hunters actually ever NEEDED one, where one actually needed that quick second shot to save their own hide.

You look cool carrying a double and that about 99.999% of it, no matter how one tries to rationalize its use. I do the same thing!

Will, well said...I had always wanted a double and I ended up with one.. Finally getting one and seeing how well it shoots and holding those big cartridges is a rush...
But I still know it all comes down to the well placed shot... Double or bolt gun..

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Let's get real.

There is nothing quite so romantic as a double rifle.

I would doubt that many hunters actually ever NEEDED one, where one actually needed that quick second shot to save their own hide.

You look cool carrying a double and that about 99.999% of it, no matter how one tries to rationalize its use. I do the same thing!

There are those who own a double to look cool, and those that have a double because they ARE cool....

My dad and I are both saving up for doubles before we go on a DG safari. I know it is expensive, but to me, it's worth it. I might only need it 0.01% of the time, but that's enough for me. Also, to answer Mark's question, I would absolutely NOT hunt dangerous game with a PH that didn't use a double. In my opinion, a PH using a bolt gun to back up clients on DG is a big No-No.

For me it's a very simple thing.....I cannot handle double triggers at all!!!

I also want a lightweight rifle and I'm very used to the bolt rifles!

In my hands a double rifle would be a serious setback.....unless I found one with a single trigger.....I hear some of you shivering already!