quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Digest this then.

http://southafricatoday.net/so...d-so-far-this-month/

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Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

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Originally posted by larryshores:
By way, has anyone ever seen a airport worse than Tambo. Baggage theft, bribes solicited, etc?

Yes - LGA - LaGuardia NYC.

Mike

LOL. LGA, what a dump.

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Originally posted by Opus1:
.. I've just noticed that you never let your total lack of knowledge and experience ever get in the way of you interjecting
your opinion on virtually any subject.

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Originally posted by Expat:
Lal and Scriptus. What are you hoping to achieve by your anti South Africa posts on a hunting forum? You are causing unnecessary fear and anxiety for people who are going to hunt there.

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Originally posted by lal:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
LAL, You might be packing up, and leaving but I am not going anywhere!, A total of 7 people died in all of this turmoil! more people die everyday in any big city in the world during rush hour traffic!!

Im not going anywhere but I am also not going to play the situation in SA down either. Fact is, anything can happen anytime and it seems we are getting closer to that time !

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Originally posted by infinito:

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Originally posted by lal:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
LAL, You might be packing up, and leaving but I am not going anywhere!, A total of 7 people died in all of this turmoil! more people die everyday in any big city in the world during rush hour traffic!!

Im not going anywhere but I am also not going to play the situation in SA down either. Fact is, anything can happen anytime and it seems we are getting closer to that time !

No one is playing anything down, it is guys like you playing it up Sir. I lived in the UK long enough to realise I belonged in South Africa.

I have said this many times around the campfire and on AR. Our people have been fighting to live in Africa for over 400 years, and our blood continues to flow. Do not like it, go live in Australia. But Africa will never be Europe or North America or Australia.

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Originally posted by Sunshine:
Don't see any unrest here in SA. Only the load shedding is shit.

Anybody coming to Cape Town soon? Need something from the US.


www.kapstadt.de/schindlers-africa

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Originally posted by dogcat:
Sounds like New York or the bad side of Houston to me. I prefer RSA.

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Originally posted by Scriptus:
...I have never been anti-South African, as 5th generation 1820 stock and as far as I know on my maternal side, part French Hugenot and part Dutch and always proud of what my families have done in SA. The time has come when I want to feel safe in my own home without intruders stealing what they want, without trying to get a member of the SAPS to respond and tired of carrying a .357 magnum to the toilet or to bed once the sun had gone down. I would like to go to the shop or local supermarket without wondering who wants what I have worked for.
Yes, I have been robbed, a car off the driveway, lawnmowers so many times that I kept the damn thing in my spare bedroom. I would like to know that the dog's water dish will stay awhile before some scrap dealer makes off with it, I would to come home and not find that some bastard has shat and urinated into my deepfreezer, or urinated onto my bed.
I have only been here two weeks, but what a pleasure to know that as an old greybeard, I am not at risk of a robbery or an attack, as advised by the local SAPS Crime Prevention Forum.
I can now go fishing where ever I fancy without the risk of ending up with a smashed skull because some bastard hates my white skin and fancies my possessions.
NO, not anti-South African, but if you were to say anti horse shit that comes from the present setup, you would be spot on. I miss the birds, I miss the wildlife, I miss the veld, of which I probably know the greater by their botanical/zoological, isiXhosa, English and Afrikaans names I will miss the hunting, and dammit, I miss my friends.
..... the only reason for me being here in NZ is because I wish to lengthen the odds of me living a long and fruitful life, and until my dying day I will be a South African.
...
And by the by, let me express my gratitude to New Zealand for giving me shelter.

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Anyone been to Detroit lately?????

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Originally posted by ALF:

Safety and security is a personal perspective.

What is secure for some is not necessarily secure for others.

The reality of the "new normal" in SA is that of burglar bars, security fences, alarms, security doors, and gated security complexes where people live in "safety" from a real or perceived level of threat.

The armed response linked to home security systems is a huge industry in South Africa.

I was surprised to see how much money average South Africans expend on securing house and home
Drive through suburbia in any City or Town and this has become the norm.

You cannot get insurance on certain cars if they are not fitted with alarms, tracking systems and immobilizers.

Remote farmers in certain border areas are basically living under the same security conditions that existed in the 70's and 80's during the war. Electric security fences, guard dogs let out at night and a reactivated Marnet system, just this time there is no Police or military response its up to your neighbours to help out.

Perhaps it takes someone to move from that to a different society where that is not part of daily life, where you can walk and hike anywhere, any time of the day or night and not fear for your safety to realize how different it has become.

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Originally posted by Saeed:

That was in America, over 30 years ago.

I bet a it is a damn sight worse today!

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Originally posted by Beretta682E:
http://www.tradingeconomics.co...frica/gdp-per-capita

The data is pretty clear - South Africa is doing pretty well economically since 1994. This is aggregate data.

The crime picture is pretty bad in South African - to compare it to US cities is a joke. NYC is a damn safe city by any global standard. In both Jo-burg (African Sky House) and Cape Town I was told my hotel/guest house not to go into town at night.

Mike

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Originally posted by Expat:
Saeed, the problem with people like Scriptus is they move to a different country because in their mind they are being targeted because they are white. And then they realize that they are strugging to adapt in their new country but in order to convince themselves that they "made the right move" they come on forums like this and vomit their hate and quote bullshit websites to support their reasons for leaving and to make themselves feel better. Every time somebody says something positive or that it is not that bad, they counter with a more horrific story to try and drive their point across. They don't "tell it like it is" because it is not "like it is". It is their perception and thy try to drum up support. White murders only account for 0.64% per day or 169 whites murdered each year (by black or white people)
So his statement that he can't go fish without having his scull crushed is a little extreme

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Originally posted by gunslinger55:
This would be to the relaxation of trade sanctions when the ANC took over I'll wager. I'll leave it to locals to expound on which was a better situation. My SA PH's did not have a lot of good to say about the basic infrastructure, land and property forfeitures, race relations and overall situation in RSA. I think the point is the basic rule of law and infrastructure and basic services. While the USA is not perfect comparing it one on one to Any African country would not be a fair comparison. Although the above Detroit comparison draws some similarities but they are righting the ship it seems.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
http://www.tradingeconomics.co...frica/gdp-per-capita

The data is pretty clear - South Africa is doing pretty well economically since 1994. This is aggregate data.

The crime picture is pretty bad in South African - to compare it to US cities is a joke. NYC is a damn safe city by any global standard. In both Jo-burg (African Sky House) and Cape Town I was told my hotel/guest house not to go into town at night.

Mike

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Originally posted by shakari:
Before we take GDP per capita too seriously, perhaps we should bear in mind that the vast majority of that GDP is generated by the white population which is the same population that is currently leaving in droves and what isn't leaving in droves is being sidelined by BEE and the newer versions of BEE etc and perhaps we should also consider what the USD/ZAR exchange rate has done in that time and although I'm going from memory, I think it'd be something like 1 USD = ZAR 3.5 -4 or so and today 1 USD buys you something like ZAR 12.

Is South Africa a good hunting destination? - IMO, it's not good, it's better than good....... I reckon it's great in many ways (esp for plains game) and would encourage people to go hunting there but I'd also recommend they stay out of the cities and exert caution when travelling but that can be said of any African country to one extent or another.

Gotta say, I think Scriptus did the right thing in his particular circumstances....... but I also don't blame others who might perhaps have different circumstances for choosing to stay.

As for the violence, esp the farm attacks, anyone who denies how bad they are is talking kak.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Mike

I agree that Africa has massive potential but the unfortunate thing is that it's wasted on the Africans........ there's not a single African country that has made a success of independence and I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the smelly brown stuff that every single African country will continue to decline for the foreseeable future.

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Originally posted by Balule:
As I am typing this it is dark outside, the dogs are quiet, the alarm system is switched on, my wife and I will sleep tonight with our 45s at arms length, the 7.62 AR is standing in the corner(because it can). Neither my wife of I are scared but we are wary and prepared as we can be and willing to protect ourselves and our family.

Not very much different from our forebears who fought the Khoi, Xhoza, Zulu, Pedi and British over the centuries. Collectively they must have had a lott of restless nights! As a family (a bizarre mix of Dutch, French and Scottish blood) we are lucky... The last one to die a violent death was murdered by the British in 1902 under rule 303. 2 died in clashes with the Zulus in 1838. The conflict that cost us the most was the Anglo-Boer War (1899-1902), a white on white conflict. My grandfathers's grandfather was a member of parliament and well to do land owner, at the end of the war his wife was impoverished and a widow repatriated from a concentration camp. It took them 3 generations to get on their feet again. By the way the British created the Union of South Africa and f@cked off in 1910.

My wife and I are both medical professionals. Like most of you we worry about taxes, health, financial security and education and opportunities for our 6 year old son and 2 year old twin daughters. Are we happy? Hell yes, we have a good life materialisticly speaking, excellent professional opportunities in a functional private health care setting and good schools to choose from with excellent hunting literally a phone call away.

Our investments are growing - decades of sanction busting have given Saffas excellent opportunity to learn how to do business elsewhere. Our stocks listed on the local exchange exposes us to mining in South America, petroleum in the USA, liquor in Eastern Europe and telecomms in China to name a few examples. What the value of the Rand or Zuma does is farly irrelevant to these investments.

Are we worried? Hell yes. Have we talked about emigrating? Hell yes. With the lack of moral fibre in our politicians any sane person should be. If SA goes Zim shaped we could have been settled far away in another country. But where? Not an easy question to answer, especially with lots of quality guys coming back unable to crack it in Aus, NZ, Canada and on Her Majesty's Isle.

But then there is the big problem, we are an African tribe. Our mixed European ancestry has been lost over the generations. I feel zero affiliation with the Scots, English, Dutch and French that seeded our tribe. Culturally speaking it is easier for me to identify with conservative America than my European forebears. So even with the threat of going Zim shaped this is my place, my maternal homeland, my tribal homeland and I would rather hang around untill it is impossible to do so further. There is more of Africa in my blood than a couple of malaria parasites.

Much is made of crimes against white people in South Africa and there is certainly a barbaric race driven component to it, but in my work I have seen enough black on black violence to assure you that the black blokes are living in a tough neighbourhood and don't give their own a break. As everywhere else in the world the plight of the poor is little mentioned. This past Wednesday it was the picture of a black woman on the front page of an Afrikaans daily who had lost a daughter to murder in a carjacking.

Most of South Africas problems relate to the politilization of service delivery with the appointment of party members to head the departments that serve the public instead of appointing professionals in the various fields. (What did the West expect of darlings that rubbed shoulders in the Kremlin and Beijing)

The title of the thread is RSA turmoil, well not much more than most of the world recently. Like a visit to any third world country trustworthy local guidance is priceless for your safety. Just because there is a couple of blokes down here who is white and speak English with a funny accent doesn't make it part of the Western world, neither is it a war zone.

quote:

Originally posted by Cazador humilde:
Balule - God forbid, but if the time comes to "bug out", please consider Texas. Several of your countrymen have and seem to like it here. We'd be proud to have you. Now as far as having a "functional private health care setting" in the not-so-distant future, you're guess is as good as mine. Several politicians that seem to favor simple anarchy over any type of sensible policy are doing their damndest to destroy it.