What's every ones thoughts/takes on the current turmoil and uprisings occurring in RSA at present? Sounds to me like RSA is going down the same road as many other Southern Africa Countries. Not sure how safe to travel and hunt in RSA at the moment. What say you?

With most hunting locations in Africa turning to bunk, with maybe the exception of Mozambique and Namibia, I will most likely bring to an end my hunting on that Continent. Long air flights, political unrest, increased danger from the locals, ridiculous regulations by our own Government on guns and ammo, highly inflated costs of African adventures partly because of the greed of African Countries Governments, over the top costs of getting ones trophies returned to the USA and several other reasons. The RSA situation kinda pushes it over the top for me.

Maybe time to have another look at hunting more here in the good ole USA?

Would be nice to hear others thoughts on the current things I just mentioned on the African front.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser
Sabatti "trash" Double Shooter

Larry, things are very unstable in SA at the moment. Whites in SA are either packing up and leaving or buying/ reloading ammo! Good luck if you decide to hunt here.

Larry,

Whatever unrest there is, it is in certain areas of the cities.

And if you are like me, I never set foot anywhere but the airport.

We fly in, and take a charter to the hunting area.

On the way back, fly in by charter, and fly out.

Saeed's way is a good way of doing it.

Larry,

Like Saeed I have never felt unsafe in South Africa. Pick a good operator, have them pick you up at the airport, and you will have a great time. As for inflated prices, try booking a grizzly hunt in Alaska.

Bob

RSA can be safe as long as you have your head on a swivel and you have someone on the receiving end who knows the ropes. If you have to overnight, the CityHotel is connected to the airport and a very easy (and safe) walk from the International terminal. Food and drink at CityHotel are acceptable and there is always the food court at the domestic terminal. Just don't take your bags to the food court. You will find many folks there more than happy to carry your bags for you. Of course they seldom tell you where they are taking them.

Once you are in the bush you're safe. I would just limit my time in the main cities.

Sad to see what RSA has become. Resembling Zimbabwe more and more by the day.

Sad to see what RSA has become. Resembling Zimbabwe more and more by the day.[/QUOTE]


What a shame! Actually, it sounds WORSE than Zimbabwe. I never once felt in danger in Bulawayo.

Given the crime rates, and the unknowns to a Foreigner, I would never book with an Outfitter who would not pick me up, the day of my arrival!

I have no desire whatsoever to overnight in Jo-Berg! In addition, I want to be dropped off the day my plane leaves!

On my way there now for 10 days in EC

.
The press must have really blown this up outside of SA. Shame.

RSA saw outbreaks of xenophobic violence 4 - 5 years ago but it bounced back and now again there has been violence and lootings and deaths.

But have we not seen similar and other acts of violence in Europe, the US - schools, malls and elsewhere, Central Europe, North Africa etc etc.

Shame to write off a great country from the scenes on CBN, BBC and the rest. RSA is and remains a fantastic country with great hunting opportunities and an excellent holiday destination.

I am back there end of this week !

LAL, You might be packing up, and leaving but I am not going anywhere!, A total of 7 people died in all of this turmoil! more people die everyday in any big city in the world during rush hour traffic!!

The truth is the the RSA has gone to hell. Crime is rampant. It has one of the highest rates of murder, assault and rape in the world. MANY government issues, for example the electricity crisis. It isn't a safe place in the cities.

Having said that, I will go hunt there if I want without worry. I stay the hell out of the city to the maximum extent possible. By way, has anyone ever seen a airport worse than Tambo. Baggage theft, bribes solicited, etc?

Yes, I imagine the press blew this all out of proportion in the recent events. Regardless, it isn't a safe place.

Sounds like New York or the bad side of Houston to me. I prefer RSA.

I was told when i booked My hunts in 2012 that I was dumb for worrying about hunts--

I took Buff, Kudu, Elephant. in Zim and a lion in RSA-----

I told people at the time it might be my last chance to go---starting to look like I was correct--

I have my ivory and elle skin, a full mount lion, with a good story.



Glad I did what I did when i did it----cant be done now--------

Do RSA have high crime in some areas yes. But so do also a hell of a lot other cities and countries.

I have never had a single major problem traveling alone in everything from Kinshasa to Pakistan.

Actually on my January trip to Pakistan my insurance company called me up one day before leaving and cancelled my insurance. I went anyways and travelled half of Pak in the "worst" areas according to my gov at nights also by the way. And guess what I have never seen a more beautiful country and friendly people ever.

You will miss alot if you just go from the airport to the hunting area, and you will miss life if not going at all. JMO

.

The last thing the SA gov can afford is a tourist getting hurt. The tourist attractions are all well protected.
As a tourist, keep up your guard and use reputable licensed operators. And enjoy a beautiful country. Your PH should be more than capable to keep you safe

Larry

You are welcome in the ole EASTERN CAPE. Hunting is good down here

Sky is always falling somewhere
Africa has always been " unsafe " looking from outside.
Hell, whole world seem unsafe, but don't let your heart be troubled gentlemen.
Love Africa and as long as money is available, I'm going again.
Shit, two days travel one way is nothing, think weeks way back then on steamer... Sea sick, no good health care and so forth...
Like Anton said, he felt safe in Pakistan.
Local people will keep an eye on you as they know, you will bring more business by being treated well and safe anywhere in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Expat:
The last thing the SA gov can afford is a tourist getting hurt. The tourist attractions are all well protected.
As a tourist, keep up your guard and use reputable licensed operators. And enjoy a beautiful country. Your PH should be more than capable to keep you safe

Oh yeah! Like young women tourists being raped on Eastern Beach in East London, even Dali Mpofu being stabbed and roughed up in the same place. There have been rapes and robberies between Bonza Bay and Gonubie Mouth. Tourists get nailed far too often.
The biggest Police Station, Cambridge, serving the largest urban and rural area of East London cannot accept cash payments for anything. Anyone wishing to make a cash payment for firearm licences, traffic fines etc, must go to another Police Station that can accept money.
Drive past a fire station in East London and you will see that most of the Bays are empty. Some of the machines can be found in a broken down state behind the Greenfields fire station. The list is long and varied.
Sorry Ferdi, I know the hunting is good and I will miss it.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:

The press must have really blown this up outside of SA. Shame.

Shame to write off a great country from the scenes on CBN, BBC and the rest.

I do my best to avoid the hype and often selective reporting of western media,
Q./ Is it correct the current spurt of violence is mainly aimed at immigrant Africans?

From what I deemed a sensible documentary I viewed some yrs ago, the targeted killing of
such deemed 'rival' immigrant Africans in SA is nothing new, but now the worlds media is
for some reason deciding to put much focus on the issue.

Correct. Illegal African Immigrants. Not tourists. Visiting hunters are very very low risk. There will be a bigger chance of you getting hurt by the animal you hunt than by a rioting mob. Go and enjoy

quote:

Originally posted by Expat:
Correct. Illegal African Immigrants. Not tourists. Visiting hunters are very very low risk. There will be a bigger chance of you getting hurt by the animal you hunt than by a rioting mob. Go and enjoy

100 %.

quote:

Originally posted by Expat:
Correct. Illegal African Immigrants. Not tourists. Visiting hunters are very very low risk. There will be a bigger chance of you getting hurt by the animal you hunt than by a rioting mob. Go and enjoy

or even seeing a rioting mob. I've lived in South Africa all my life and have never seen any of this. Now , join the CNN team and have the mobsters perform for you in some backstreet hell hole -- you might see something

The situation is not nearly as bad as the media is making it. It is isolated in basically 3 areas. This is in anyway areas no tourist would want to visit, anybody going in that areas is stupid. If basic common sense is used anyone will be safe, be on your guard, know what is happening around you. It is as easy as that.

All the hunting areas and tourist destinations are not close to the violence.

quote:

It is the break down of basic governance that is at issue.

And this translates to:

- inept people in top jobs
- mostly uneducated on top
- corruption is there for good measure
- lack of planning and vision
- white people are kicked out of their jobs and replaced with black people - it is called transformation.


Santa Claus

quote:

Originally posted by Santa Claus:

quote:

It is the break down of basic governance that is at issue.

And this translates to:

- inept people in top jobs
- mostly uneducated on top
- corruption is there for good measure
- lack of planning and vision
- white people are kicked out of their jobs and replaced with black people - it is called transformation.


Santa Claus

I can apply the above to many countries!

There are rapes and murders everywhere in the world sure this country is not like it used to be but what country is?? RSA is still a great place to hunt great place to live and yes I have been to much worst airports than OR TAMBO try and go to CAMEROON! HELL IN January it to me 3,5 hours to get thru Atlanta I DID not make my connection got treated like a criminal by TSA ARRIVED IN Dallas with no Luggage, it has never took me more than 1 hour to get through OR TAMBO, and if your gun paper work is in order that process should not be longer than 30 minutes,

There are 2 hotels at the airport you don't even leave the terminal no reason to go and sleep in Johannesburg, there are dozens of quest houses with full service packages including gun permits and paper work that meet you at the airport and take you back, bottom line is if you want to hunt over here use a good outfitter don't always BUY the " BEST DEAL" Do your home work like you would do for every other hunt you go on and you should be OK having A great time.

I am sick and tired of my fellow South Africans that bitch and moan all the time!! Guys we have allot to be thank full for. I will remain proudly South African and will stay here for the rest of my live. God Bless.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
LAL, You might be packing up, and leaving but I am not going anywhere!, A total of 7 people died in all of this turmoil! more people die everyday in any big city in the world during rush hour traffic!!

Im not going anywhere but I am also not going to play the situation in SA down either. Fact is, anything can happen anytime and it seems we are getting closer to that time !

quote:

Love Africa and as long as money is available, I'm going again.

So am I....but not to RSA.

Last September, I thought Tambo was wonderful! Friendly people, nobody being a humbug thanks to extra police / security presence. Easy enough to find my way around after Marius from Afton took us through to check-in. Police Firearms crew were helpful and friendly. And from Afton House, my mate Paddy and I walked to that shopping centre a couple of times. Felt pretty safe the whole time. I know I'll be back!

Benkk, thank you for first hand report! As I said if you go about it the right way I can not see much of A problem.

If I didn't read this I would have thought everything was all normal in the country.....

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
Do RSA have high crime in some areas yes. But so do also a hell of a lot other cities and countries.

JMO

I agree with Anton. The real problem is that we have a very high crime rate in our Parliament and among Cabinet Ministers - the bunch of international terrorists that the former Apartheid Government in South Africa was forced to hand over the reigns of government to. Since 1994 this bunch of thugs had but one very clear primary objective: Steal as much as you can! The equally clear secondary objective of most of the thugs in cabinet, parliament, provincial and local government had - and still have - a very clear secondary objective: Let the ANC Terrorist Government look as good as possible! There are long, and well researched, lists of crimes by the ANC thugs that was simply "swept under the carpet" in order to make the terrorists look good.

One of the things that, after about 10 to 15 years of terrorist misrule, theft, corruption and a long list of other non-kept promises, threatened to make the ANC look bad was the number of "illegal immigrants" living interspersed between other South Africans. Now, if you, as a minister, has "imported" a whole drug smuggling gang from one of the nearby African countries to run your illegal drug or rhino your smuggling business in South Africa and the fact that there are many "illegal immigrants" starts making ugly waves, well you do something about it! You set in motion a whole system to simply provide that illegal immigrants with the required paperwork, so that they become legal! The ANC Terrorists did exactly this - they simply made illegal immigrants legal by giving them almost "instant" South African citizenship!

Remember that we are not now talking of foreign investors - but mostly thugs, smugglers, slave traders, sex workers, rhino poachers, and many simply unemployed Zimbabweans, Nigerians and other foreign nationals who came into the country illegally, but were en masse made into either voting citizens or otherwise legal immigrants! Can I give you 10 guesses to git it right for which political party these are mostly going to vote! Those that got it right on the first guess as the ANC does not even deserve praise - it is so obvious!

Now, in 2008 the Xenophobic violence first erupted. This eruption was underlain by widespread dissatisfaction of the voters because of the terrorist government lack of fulfilling on its many electioneering promises. Civil unrest and "service non-delivery" was rife. This made the terrorists as government look bad! Very, and unacceptably bad! A scapegoat had to be found, and quickly!

Now, the reader of these thoughts should by clever enough to know that the terrorists still had - and now yet and always will have, their "undercover gangs" active. Many of these thugs masqueraded as senior SA Police Officers, Intelligence operatives and similar terrorist government paid thugs. It needed merely a whispered "the outlanders", who get houses, services etc. before true South African citizens are to blame to let the Xenophobic violence flare up. At the same time the attention was drawn away from the real cause of the widespread civil unhappiness, i.e. the lack of investments, jobs and services as mis-managed by the terrorist government.

So the ANC looked good. For some time: There were studies, commissions and a lot of empty talk. Meantime the borders are even wider open for all manner of unsavory shady character from neighboring - and further in Africa - states to simply stream into our country!

Now, in 2015 Xenophobia has again flared up. Why? The ANC did nothing to improve job creation - except increase the size, and so decrease the already almost zero efficiency even more, of the Civil Service. Money is streaming from the country as honest investors realize that they are dealing with a totally corrupt officialdom! So joblessness has increased even more than it was in 2008. Service delivery is now only a thought and a dream! The people most needing clean water, sanitation, roads, good schooling and almost every service that should be rendered by the various tiers of government gets more promises!

Do you not think that the ANC has pulled off a fantastic confidence trick with the current wave of Xenophobia? A few months ago everyone was unhappy with the ANC and the corruption, thuggery and lack of service and job delivery! Now every news media shouts out about the triumph of the "country united in the rejection of Xenophobia!"

Please do not tell me that you are really so stupid as to not realize that the underlying causes of widespread citizen dissatisfaction - including, but by no means dominated by, the presence of large numbers of foreign economic opportunity seekers, is not to be blamed squarely as the direct result of the past policies of the ANC terrorists' mismanagement of the country's affairs? Yet now this very self-same ANC is internationally praised for uniting the country, and all political parties, local and foreign in their condemnation of Xenophobia!

My question is now: are we going to see any positive action in the right direction for the best interest of all the South Africans, including some honest international investors?

My heart says: Cry beloved country!

And yet the blacks still line up in droves to vote for the ANC candidates.

Just like our government plantation slaves continuing to vote for their slave masters. And then they complain that there are not enough jobs and they cannot survive on a burger flipping wage.

Unbelieveable

It's not the riots you have to worry about in RSA it's just the average ordinary rampant crime that you should be concerned about.

We just returned from S.A. and personnaly did not see any problems. True we did not spend any time in the large cities but did do some sightseeing in Grahamstown, Kenton on Sea and Port Alfred.
We did hear about the protesters taking down a statue and police firing rubber bullets but that was in Jo'burg, we were a long way from there.

Unlike some on this thread I have absolutely ZERO monetary gain from you coming in or going out of South Africa. Funny how those with a financial gain welcome overseas trade !.........

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
By way, has anyone ever seen a airport worse than Tambo. Baggage theft, bribes solicited, etc?

Yes - LGA - LaGuardia NYC.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
By way, has anyone ever seen a airport worse than Tambo. Baggage theft, bribes solicited, etc?

Yes - LGA - LaGuardia NYC.

Mike

The physical facility I would agree. However, TAMBO is FAR worse with theft and corruption.