Thank you Jorge. The point was made. Yes, a .270 will kill a lion, or a elephant for that matter. But, using one to stop a charge in the thorns might not be the smartest act. This statement comes from one who grew up reading Jack O'Conner.

Bo: I have to admit that if I was ever fortunate enough to hunt lion, a 270 would not even be a consideration. For me, the 375 would be a minimum and preferably my soon-to-be Hein 450 Dakota. And I beleive Capstick like the old-fashioned Silvertips with the aluminum capped nose. jorge

I shot my one and only lion, a male with a decent blond mane, several decades ago in Mozambique with a 375 H&H, using the old gilding metal 300 gr Nosler Partition @ 2550 fps. We found his spoor and tracked him for a while, and came to a clearing about 200 yards across. We five (PH, two trackers, one gun bearer,and I) went about 30 yards into the wide-open clearing, and one of the trackers commenced calling by blowing through a rubber tube into a 10-gallon oil can. I thought the whole idea was nuts! Whoooah! Whoooah! Whooah! He did this three times in a span of 10 minutes, then the lion burst into the clearing on his back trail, running straight for us. Although I was taken aback, to say the least, instinct took over and I plopped down into a firm sitting position on a plane with the oncoming lion and fired one shot centered on his chest at about 50-60 yards. He did a complete somersault that covered about 10 yards. My vast experience (of one) suggests that the 375 is THE lion rifle. I still have the old Browning Olympic grade 375 I purchased in 1964. It was recently awarded a complete overhaul and new stock by Duane Wiebe, and it shoots better than ever.

quote:

Originally posted by JTurk:
I shot my one and only lion, a male with a decent blond mane, several decades ago in Mozambique with a 375 H&H, using the old gilding metal 300 gr Nosler Partition @ 2550 fps. We found his spoor and tracked him for a while, and came to a clearing about 200 yards across. We five (PH, two trackers, one gun bearer,and I) went about 30 yards into the wide-open clearing, and one of the trackers commenced calling by blowing through a rubber tube into a 10-gallon oil can. I thought the whole idea was nuts! Whoooah! Whoooah! Whooah! He did this three times in a span of 10 minutes, then the lion burst into the clearing on his back trail, running straight for us. Although I was taken aback, to say the least, instinct took over and I plopped down into a firm sitting position on a plane with the oncoming lion and fired one shot centered on his chest at about 50-60 yards. He did a complete somersault that covered about 10 yards. My vast experience (of one) suggests that the 375 is THE lion rifle. I still have the old Browning Olympic grade 375 I purchased in 1964. It was recently awarded a complete overhaul and new stock by Duane Wiebe, and it shoots better than ever.

Great story!

Here's hoping my little 9.3x74R double gets a good try-out on lion next month south of Etosha.

I shot mine with a 416 Rem Mag. 1st shot through the lungs(just behind the heart), it rolled and charged from approx 120 yds. 2nd shot through the chest, rolled it backwards head over heals and thankfully dead at approx 60 yds. Those buggers seem to get faster the more dead you think they are.

I was fortunate to bag a very good lion in Zim in 2006. I used a .338 Win mag with 250 grain Speer Grand Slams. The beast was sleeping in dense bush and some expert tracking was needed to find him. As we neared him the trackers kept falling back until we were within 80-90 yards when I spotted the unmistakable twitch of a resting lions tail.

The PH was trying to find him 200 yards away. When he realized where the lion was we were only 40 yards from him. Out came the shooting sticks and with them came the tersely worded speech: "Walter, whatever you do, do not !!!!ing miss! Do not !!!! this shot up! At that juncture , some of the young trackers hundreds of yards away let their enthusiasm get the better of them and they started to hoot and holler. The lion heard this cacophany and started to get up. He growled and the PH shouted SHOOT! I placed the shot squarely into the chest between the front legs of the lion. He never moved again though two more insurance shots were placed in the same area of the lion. All the bullets travelled through 14-18 inches of spine and lodged at the base of the skull. None exited. There was a mass of bone the size of a soft ball at the base of the skull.

Walter, great story. Got any pics.

Lion hunters take note of Saeeds post...
paraphrased,'I shot again, then again, as the lion rolled around on the ground'.

GOOD PLAN and good advice.

Afew extra holes in the lion's hide can be patched a whole lot easier, and with a LOT less pain then a few extra holes in your hide.

I haven't hunted lion (except mtn lion) but would be very happy with my 375 and good softs.

As to convincing someone else of what to use...why bother?

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:

As to convincing someone else of what to use...why bother?

Why bother? Because Strut10 asked Yukon Delta,and the 338win/9.3 MM/375 H&H simply makes sense!

I had a very good friend who lived several years in Palmer, Alaska, by the name of R.O. Burns. He died there about 5 yrs ago. He had hunted all over the world before retiring, and moveing to Alaska from D/FW at American Airlines, where he worked for me! Maybe you knew him! He was a good guy, and he's the one that talked me into going on my first safari in Africa, allthough it didn't take much talking!

If I had a chance at a lion and only a .243 or 45-70 were available, I would still go lion hunting.

However, I would prefer a 9.3 x 62 or .375 H&H.

My minimum would be an 06 with 200 gr. Noslers or Woodleighs, or 220 gr. in the same...I would be perfectly comfortable with it..

My preference is the .375 H&H or one of the 40 calibers like a .416 Rem..

More important is bullet construction and how well you place the bullet.

Sorry, I don't know him but that doesn't mean much as there are a lot of people who don't know me either.

I found it interesting that both Alan Shearing and Myles McCallum (PH's in Zim) thought my leveraction in .50 Alaskan would make a dandy lion rifle with softs. It had full penetration on elephant head and body shots but they mainly liked it due to the speed of the action. It's much faster than a bolt gun and just about as fast as a double for 2 shots. I could empty it (7 shots) in about as much time as you could shoot 4 in a double.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Sorry, I don't know him but that doesn't mean much as there are a lot of people who don't know me either.

I found it interesting that both Alan Shearing and Myles McCallum (PH's in Zim) thought my leveraction in .50 Alaskan would make a dandy lion rifle with softs. It had full penetration on elephant head and body shots but they mainly liked it due to the speed of the action. It's much faster than a bolt gun and just about as fast as a double for 2 shots. I could empty it (7 shots) in about as much time as you could shoot 4 in a double.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a lever action rifle for dangerous game. The only thing I have a problem with is chamberings that are not well suited to the game folks want to use them on.

Like your PH, I too think a lever action with an appropriate chambering is a very good choice for Lion, over bait, or for a follow-up if wounded. The 50 Alaskan,or 45-348 with an appropriate bullet, and a short barrel, with good express sights, would be, IMO, and fine follow-up rifle for cats, or large Bear. I have an old 1894 Marlin 45-70, that I had the barrel shortened to 16 1/4", installed good iron sights, and lengthened the magazine tube to the end of the barrel like the winchester Trapper model. I carry this rifle with handloads that are hot for a Ruger No1, when fishing in Alaska. The bears up there get quite cheeky, during the salmon runs.

Would I rather have a 470NE double rifle, hell yes, but I think something like a BLR, with it's lever actioned, turn bolt action with some stock modifications,some quality iron sights, and chambered for 458 Win Mag,or LOTT, would be a strong competitor to the doubles, even for buffalo, and elephant, but let's leave the 45-70 at home, for that!

I said my minimum would be a 30-06 with 200 or 220 gr. Noslers or Woodliegh, as that was the question.

I would not recommend the 30-06 or the 50 Alaskan or 45-70 to someone else.

My recommendation to anyone that asked me would be the 375 H&H or larger..

I shot a lioness in Zim in '92, at 70 yards, using Nosler partition 300 grain (first round)and solids (subsequent rounds) from my Sako 375 H&H. First shot rolled her, but i emptied the magazine on the instruction of Hallamore Sahib "KEEP SHOOTING!" When I go for a male, I plan to use my 416 with Noslers or TBBC, 400 grain. I cant kill it too dead, and I'll feel better!

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff189/albertasafari

I am new to this posting pictures game. I hope this works. Zimbabwe 2006 with ZimAfrica safaris.

Great looking lion threre, Walter! The rest of your bag is very nice as well. That must have been quite the safari.

That's an awesome lion Walter. Tell us more about it.

I hope you don't mind me posting it here for everyone? In Photobucket, you copy the link from the IMG code at the bottom of your choices...

A french firm, "sologne", claims for the qualities of cartridges "GPA", including both high fragmentation and core penetration.
They propose them from 243 Win to 500 NE
Has anybody experience with those ammo on lion?

http://perso.orange.fr/www.cartouchegpa.com/usindex2.html
http://perso.orange.fr/www.cartouchegpa.com/balgpa.html

I have not shot a Lion but I wouldn't use anything under a 375 H&H.

Gentlemen:

I want to preface my comments by saying I NEVER shot a lion. In fact, I am in the process of planning my first African hunt. However, I did want to respond because I think there is more to this issue than a simple question of caliber.

If and when I get to go to Africa, a lion will not be on the list of animals I wish to hunt. There are three reasons for this. First, I just can't afford it. A hunt for a well maned lion has become frightfully expensive. Second, I recognize my limitations. I want to kill my game and not put anyone in jeopardy. I would have no problem shooting a stationary lion from a good rest but we all know that sometimes things happen. In addition, lions move fast, way faster than this old man can shoot and I doubt that I would have the necessary skills to teminate a determined charge. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, lions scare the living s*#t out of me!

This is why the answer to this question involves a lot more than the issue or caliber. I have a great fondness for the 9,3X62. I am CONVINCED it will do everything my .375 will do on DG within 100 yards. I know that. At least I know that while I am sitting here in my family room at my computer. However, then I read DB BILL'S post:

'The blind wasn't very substantial and after a few moments the lions must have seen something as they started walking directly toward us. There was a small ravine about 75 yards in front of the blind and when the 3 of them went down into it only 2 came out ... the male and one of his girl friends. The other one came out about 50 yards to our left and they all walked up to about 25 yards and stared at the blind with the male eventually lying down while the 2 lioness alternated looking at us and rubbing up against the big fellow. I was more than a little "tight" and the .375 in my hand felt like a .22lr. After a few minutes of this the male became irritated at one of his girl friends and gave out with a roar that seemed to vibrate thru my whole body. He got up and took a few steps toward the blind, (I released the safety at that point but the PH put his hand over mine as if to say "not yet") stopped and stared at it and then slowly walked away with the two lioness following him looking back over their shoulders every couple of steps.'

I echo Bill's sentiments exactly. At that point, even my .375 would seem like a pop gun. So, for me anyway, it is more than the gun. In my heart, I know that the 9,3 will do the job but on the ground, with real live lions, I want something more and regard the .375 H&H as the bare minimum and would prefer my .404 or .416.

Dave

Dave Bush,
Common logic is a wonderful "thang" ....I agree with you 100%...

A review of the rabid lion article written by Ganyana makes for interesting reading in the context of this discussion.

http://accuratereloading.com/nick/AHPDF/Hydro.pdf

Feel free to use a .22 Hornet, if you wish.

Lol.

There are records of elly being shot with a .22; that still doesnt make it a good choice. I was happy with my 375, and would not suggest anything lihter. What for?

I knew a guy who had shot a lion wih a .22 lr, near Louis Trichardt in Limpopo.