I am asking this question on behalf of an uninformed discussion going on at another board.

To anyone who has actually shot a lion....what round did you use and how did it perform?? Thanks a bunch for your help and input.

S10

Ruger RSM, 416 Rigby, 400 GR Barnes Triple-shock. First shot put him on his back roaring. Second shot finished the affair. Both were pass throughs.

I would not have any fear using my 9,3x74R double for lion.

I shot my lion with my 450/400 3 1/4" double, scoped with a S&B 1-4.
I was using 400gr Woodleigh softs's at @2200fps.

The first shot was fired from @90 yards, he had seen us stalk up, the other lions with him had already stood up and started to walk away, as he lay facing me. He just rolled on to his side, the second shot hit him in the shoulder, exited and re-entered the body about 6 or 7 inches behind the exit. I immediately ran up to him and put a shot into his spine between the shoulders at point blank range. [I ran past 3 other lions, 1 male and 2 females, on the way to him, watching them was the PH's "job" ]

He probably did not need the insurance shot, but bullets are cheap, and I like to shoot.

NONE of the bullets exited the Lion. I recovered them all and they were perfectly expanded.

I consider the scoped 450/400 the perfect lion gun.

As lions are usually shot over bait, and it can be in low light I think a scope with an illuminated reticle is a good idea.

The venerable .375 H and H works fine also. I have taken 3 lions with it.

It usually hurts them bad on the first shot and the second one results in a short few steps to lay down.

edit. Upon thinking more about it, one was with a 458 WM. Could not tell the difference in effect between that and the 375 however - it still took two shots.

Mine was shot with a .375 H&H Model 70 Winchester using a .300 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaw.

Thanks, so far, fellers. Keep 'em coming please.

Reason I'm asking........a guy on another board is trying to gain consensus on the .300 WSM as lion medicine. I don't wanna see the guy end up as a lion turd.

Is the .300 WSM even LEGAL for lion anywhere in Africa??

....416 Taylor with 400gr old style (lots of lead) barnes soft point. One shot, one dead lion.

I almost forgot...I shot him again just to be certain!

One very large male lion with a .375 H&H, 300 grain TB bearclaws. The next three were solids and just passed through. I was tracking buffalo and he was to and our encounter gets better everytime I tell it.

In Zimbabwe, the legal minimum is 7mm rem mag. See my comments on rabid lion in the nikudu files - and yes, as a parks officer I have taken them with (multiple hits from) a .308.

Would I be happy seeing a client arrive so armed? Not really. If the lion is broadside, and conditions are perfect then a 7mm or 30 mag with the right bullets will do the job. Trouble is, how often do you get a "classic" broadside shot? And unless it is a canned hunt, the PH is likely to be able to get you but one oportunity on a typical 14-18 day safari.

I would think that 90% of the shot oportunities I get a client on a walk and stalk hunt are at a fast departing lion. On a baited lion, the one you want is almost invarably lying down at some funny angle.

A .338 Win, 9,3 x62 or .375 H&H are all great lion cartridges, when loaded with the right bullets and the client can then take whatever shot is presented, with a reasonable expectation of getting the animal!

I have yet to do it, but as I get older and less amienable to idiots, one of these days when somebody has lodged a 7mm bullet somewhere between the back let and the stomach and the lion has gone into the reed beds, I'll hand the client my double and tell him I'll be at the truck while he finds it

Well said.

300 WSM may be legal somewhere, but most PH's adhere to a .375 minimum. I shot mine at 35-40 yards head on with the .375 H&H using 300 grain Swift A-Frames. First shot took him square in the chest. That pushed him back on his haunches. He wheeled to exit stage right and I put another behind his shoulder which double lunged him. He took shelter behind a thorn bush and came out running in about 15 seconds. Third shot in the neck killed him instantly. All were pass through, none recovered. We tracked this Lion and when we caught up with him he charged. I had wanted to take my .300 RUM but was told absolutely not. I'm glad I listened to reason. Not that the 300 RUM couldn't kill a Lion, but their tenacity and strength is nothing to second guess. Those that do may be in the happy hunting grounds ahead of their time.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
I have yet to do it, but as I get older and less amienable to idiots, one of these days when somebody has lodged a 7mm bullet somewhere between the back let and the stomach and the lion has gone into the reed beds, I'll hand the client my double and tell him I'll be at the truck while he finds it

Ha ha. That is EXACTLY what a friend of mine had to do with a black Zim PH when he wounded a lion with his .375. Said he wasn't going to follow it up in the thick riverine bush so he and the trackers went and sat in the bakkie, while my mate followed it up and despatched it.

I used a 9.3x62 with 286grn Woodleigh round nose soft at MV 2340fps.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I used a 9.3x62 with 286grn Woodleigh round nose soft at MV 2340fps.

And ????

1) The bullet bounced off?
2) Woodleigh paid for the hunt?
3) You couldn't afford a 375 H&H?
4) It just pissed-off the lion?"
5) You missed?
6) You never fired a shot?
7) You never saw a lion on the hunt?
8) The lion chose how to die?
9) You chose how to die?
10) The PH chose how to die?
11) The PH couldn't see the lion?
12) You couldn't see the lion?
13) The PH was afraid of lions?
14) You decided the trophy fee was too high?
15) It was a pink-nosed lion?
16) It was fornicating?
17) You shot it anyway?

Details, please.

To be fair...

18) It turned out to be a hyena?
19) It turned out to be a cub?
20) It turned out to be a cub hyena?
21) The PH's dog made a nice full-body mount?
22) The tracker's family wanted at least $25 (US dollars)?
23) Thank God someone had a black magic marker for its nose?
24) The hide was big enough for a pair of slippers, size Small?

i did mine in with a 300 gr a frame out of my 9.3x74r, i did have a PH some years back that favored a 300 mag with a barnes x bullet, but i don't think thats quite enuf gun. other hunts i used a 375 and a 470.

Or,

25) It was caught in a snare?
26) It was caught in a cage?
27) It was caught stealing chickens?
28) You baited it with chickens
29) It choked to death on a chicken?
30) It was wounded by a buff?
31) You finished it off?
32) It was already dead?

I have never taken a lion. But I have been reading up on doing so for 30 years (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express one night too!). Most of the African texts on shooting lions say the .338 Win Mag is a minimum and also quite adequate. There have been a lot of lions "killed cleanly" with that cartridge. If I go, I will use my .375 H&H that I shot my first buff with.

.338 Win. Mag. and .375 H&H Mag. Both worked fine.

My first shots, on the other hand, were thrown off in both cases by unseen intervening grass and brush (in each case I took my first shots at ballpark around 50 yards). (I have learned from those and other experiences that there is no such thing on this earth as a brush buster. That is a myth.)

My first shots were not fatal in either case, but only wounded the lions. That made for some interesting follow ups, but both my .338 and my .375 performed fine for that too.

Mine have all been shot with a .378 Wea or a .375 H&H. If I had to face a serious charge I would prefer the doble .450 or .470, otherwise I think the various .375s are about right.
I would say the .375 H&H is the CLASIC lion caliber for visiting hunters over a near century of time.

BTW, if I were on a PG hunt with a .300 WSM and had a chance at a problem lion, I would not hesitate to go for it.

Will:

#21 works for me.

This only opinion, but I think the 338 Win Mag with heavy for caliber bullets, like the Nosler Partitions, or Swift A-frames is about minimum, I'd use.

Gregor Wood, who wrties for Man Magnum magazine in Africa, and has lived, and hunted in Africa for all his life, says He considers a light double rifle chambered for the 9.3X74R to be perfect for follow-up on wounded lion. I'm not sure I fully agree with that, but who am I to second guess Mr Wood. I would not hesitate to hunt Lion with my 9.3X74R double rifle, and would follow him up with it as well, but I'd rather have something larger for the follow-up, on a wounded cat. I happen to have a 470NE double rifle that would likely get the nod for going into the weeds with a punctured lion!

The 300 mags would be OK,IMO, with heavy bullets if hunted over bait, but it wouldn't be my choice. I'd rather have a 375 H&H with a 300 gr Nosler partition, or a 9.3 with a heavy bullet! Since I haven't taken an African lion with any rifle, all this is simply speculation!

That's wise speculation. After having shot mine with the .375, I followed him up with my .470 NE, and the PH with his .500 NE, JUST IN CASE, even though we were fairly certain that he was dead.

Another lion taken in the chest with a 375 H & H 300 grns. nosler partition.
LMCH

Strut 10,

I think MacD37's recommendation for the 375 H&H loaded with the Nosler Partition might just be an excellent choice. Lots of tissue destruction with that bullet and a big hole. I can say though that the 300 Mags will kill lions because I've done it and I'm sure the lion would not have expired any more quickly if I was using a heavier caliber. I used the 300 only because the lion was showing up at last light and the low power scope on the 375 was not adequate for the task. The 3x10 on the 300 made the difference. When I hunted lion after that I used a bigger scope on my 375 and never missed the low power variable.

To answer the question I guess the 300WSM is adequate but why choose that caliber with so many more appropriate calibers out there. And is he going to shoot his buffalo for bait with the 300WSM?

Mark

I have never hunted lion and probably will not get the chance but....If I had the money to shoot a lion at todays fair chase prices and the money to have him mounted I would probably buy a 375 HH or closely equal rifle to handle all my DG needs...why shoot it with a 300 WSM when you need a 375/9.3X64 to hunt buffs and such?

Why would someone go shoot a lion and not need a larger rifle to hunt buff and the larger antelopes....seems like just some mental exercise that someone wants to pump up his latest/greatest gun.

IMO

-phil

I'd use the one and only 458WM or 458 Lott and 500gr bullets.

From an elevated position, placed a 300 gr Swift A-Frame-- 375 H&H, in the right side of back taking out the lung and shoulder. One shot was all. Good thing as he was going away. Would not feel comfortable to take that shot with a lessor caliber or bullet.

Dak

A big male with a Pre'64 Model 70 .375. I used the 300 grain Nosler partition. This was the only animal that I have knocked down, and got back up! They are very tough.

Will,
Although I haven't finished your book yet, I don't think you explained what equipment you used for your Lion shot with Doug C.
Mine was one of my best hunts yet and hope to hunt Lion again some day.
And within 15m, no the bullets did not bounce off, but suspect that even the great 7x57 Mauser would have been OK providing he didn't see me .

My valley Shumba.

I used a .375 H&H with a 300 gr. Swift A-Frame. Shot was high in the right shoulder while lying down. Rolled over and never got up. Bullet did not exit and was found perfectly mushroomed under the muscle in the off side. Did put in an insurance shot that was not necessary but I'am not one to take chances.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Will,
Although I haven't finished your book yet, I don't think you explained what equipment you used for your Lion shot with Doug C.
Mine was one of my best hunts yet and hope to hunt Lion again some day.
And within 15m, no the bullets did not bounce off, but suspect that even the great 375 Ruger would have been OK .

375 H&H, 300 gr. Swift A-Frame. Spined it.

But it may have been dead already.

I haven't shot a lion...yet but I was up close and personal with 3 of them in the Matesi 6 area of Zimbabwe.

We had chained some meat to a tree as hyaena bait and built what I'd describe as a "walk-up" blind to allow us to walk into the bait in the early AM. When we got there we could see some activity at the tree (about 100 yards away) and as it got light the activity was a very large and nicely maned male and two of his girl friends.

The blind wasn't very substantial and after a few moments the lions must have seen something as they started walking directly toward us. There was a small ravine about 75 yards in front of the blind and when the 3 of them went down into it only 2 came out ... the male and one of his girl friends. The other one came out about 50 yards to our left and they all walked up to about 25 yards and stared at the blind with the male eventually lying down while the 2 lioness alternated looking at us and rubbing up against the big fellow. I was more than a little "tight" and the .375 in my hand felt like a .22lr. After a few minutes of this the male became irritated at one of his girl friends and gave out with a roar that seemed to vibrate thru my whole body. He got up and took a few steps toward the blind, (I released the safety at that point but the PH put his hand over mine as if to say "not yet") stopped and stared at it and then slowly walked away with the two lioness following him looking back over their shoulders every couple of steps.

Start to finish was probably 10 minutes but seemed like at least an hour. If I ever get a chance to hunt lion I might start with a 375 but if I had to follow up I'd like something with a much larger hole in the end of the barrel. Neither buffalo or leopard scared me (I did respect them) but the lion certainly did.

During all of this my PH. Brian van Blerk, who now works for Adam Clements in Tanzania was as cool as a cucumber.

2 were shot with a 416 Rigby Improved, about 40-50 yards, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 400 grains.
One shot in the neck, dropped dead. The other was shot with two rounds as she was rolling around. Died within 2-3 yards from where she was shot.

3 were shot with a 375/404, and Barnes X 300 grains bullets.

1 was a lionnes about 30 yards, 3 shots while she was rolling around herself trying to bite the first hit. Died within 2-3 yards from where she was originally shot.

1 was trotting away about 100 yards away. 2 shots, again, the second was not really required, but as she was rolling around I put a second bullet in. Died within 2-3 yards of where was originall shot.

1 was about 120 yards, 1 shot, as he disapeared behind some bushes after getting the shot. Died within about 7-8 yards from where he was originally shot.

I would have no problems shooting a lion by any caliber from the 270 Winchester upwards.

How about a .280 Ross?

DB Bill,
That must have been an awesome experience. What a great story.

quote:

Originally posted by Bo Rich:
How about a .280 Ross?

Ask Sir Edward Grey....or his survivors jorge

PS: My uncle took a lion in Angola (or Mozambique I forget) in the late 60s with a 270 and old fashioned Winchester Silvertips!

Jorge,

Wasn't the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip PHC's preferred lion bullet?

Rgds,
FB

I have not sold my M70 416 Rem Mag in the hope that a lion hunt becomes a financial reality.

While many have used less, when things go bad, I would not be comfortable with anything less.