David Petzel recommends:

"It works like this: Assuming you have a smooth rifle sling and not one of the grabby kind that won’t slip off your shoulder, and assuming you’re right-handed, you sling the rifle over your left shoulder, muzzle down, trigger guard forward. Your left hand should be on the fore-end to control the gun.

When it comes time to shoot, you simply haul the rifle up and put the butt in your right shoulder. The sling remains looped around the upper part of your left arm as a brace. This can be done in one motion with a minimum of movement and is very fast."
Article:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/shooting/rifl...199,767817-2,00.html

I reversed my Butler Neoprene and this seems to work.

Africa? What do you think?

It's exactly what Peter H. Capstick is recommending in " Safari, the last adventure" with a serie of pictures between pages 122 & 123.

Now the question, who was the first to have the idea? Isn't it simply basic soldiering?

Yep. Good way to carry with a sling. Cover the muzzle with electrician's tape, as always.

Ross Seyfried recommended this years ago. I have done it since. Keeps the rifle low profile, less snagging on brush. Fastest into action, even better than the no-sling safari carry.

The illustration shows a southpaw shooter, now I see after enlarging the image.

Old technique, yes basic, should be used more often. Great with a shotgun. Only thing better is having the rifle gripped in both hands, port arms.

Rough going, wading through muck and boulders might make you want to use a different carry with muzzle up instead of down by the hazards.

I haven't tried it before but will just to compare. Normally if I go through something thick I carry the rifle port arms since snags can happen I think in any position. I usually carry it slung barrel up on the right side (shooting side for me) and when bringing to to shoulder it comes under my arm by my pulling the butt around with the right hand, left hand grasps forearm on the way up and voila. seems very fast to me, but I have limited experience.

Red

good carry providing you don't fall & stickthe muzzle into the mud

Jean B.

I will order Capstick's book, thanks. Any other recommendations?

Look at slings made be Slogan Outdoors www.sloganoutdoors.com These slings have a variety of carry configurations. I have replaced my Ching Sling with a Slogan and love it.

I have carried one this way, but it always worried me to death for fear of sticking it in the mud here in Mo.

As a right handed person I often carry it like that, but slung on my right shoulder...As already mentioned be sure to cover the muzzle with electrical tape..

One of the big advantages of carrying muzzle down is if you are walking with somebody behind you...With the muzzle up, its very easy for the person behind to end up looking down the muzzle..

This is the normal carry method w/ sling that I've seen for years. I've seen quite a few use this in bear country and I do believe it is the method taught by the forestry service for those carrying a rifle in bear country. Though many I know, myself included, remove the sling and carry the rifle by hand when in thick cover.

I like it as it keeps my muzzle down and forward where I can see it. It keep the rifle upside down w/ the trigger group under my arm for protection from downpours and it keeps the bolt handle close to my body to avoid snags. There is no wasted movements or hand shuffling to shoulder and fire the rifle from this position.

Just as a side note. A Marine on an elk hunting trip about 5 years ago was hiking over rough terrain w/ his rifle slung over his shoulder w/ the muzzle straight up. His forend swivel stud pulled out of the stock and the rifle fell straight down on its butt. The impact tripped the sear and the rifle went off and he was fataly shot in the back of the head.

I like to carry my rifle stuffed down the front of my shorts. This necessitates that I carry it with the barrel up.

Has anyone actually tried shooting through that tape over the end of the bbl at the range to see if it has any effect on the POI compared to no tape? Seems it must have some effect, maybe not. I personally prefer to not use slings in Africa

quote:

Originally posted by Oldcoyote:
David Petzel recommends:

"It works like this: Assuming you have a smooth rifle sling and not one of the grabby kind that won’t slip off your shoulder, and assuming you’re right-handed, you sling the rifle over your left shoulder, muzzle down, trigger guard forward. Your left hand should be on the fore-end to control the gun.

When it comes time to shoot, you simply haul the rifle up and put the butt in your right shoulder. The sling remains looped around the upper part of your left arm as a brace. This can be done in one motion with a minimum of movement and is very fast."
Article:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/shooting/rifl...199,767817-2,00.html

I reversed my Butler Neoprene and this seems to work.

Africa? What do you think?

Well, I tried it a couple of times tonight in my office and I think it doesn't work as well for me as what I learned in Europe many years ago. I realize that is not a fair test and I will try it some on the range. However, I currently do almost the opposite. I am left handed and I only carry left-handed or single shot rifles so I will describe this for a right handed shooter. I think you have better control of your muzzle and little chance of getting dirt or mud in the bore. Right-handed: Carry weapon on left shoulder muzzle up trigger guard to the rear. Grip weapon with left hand where you would if you were going to shoot it. To position for shooting just puah forward and rotate wrist like you are sticking your hand out for someone to place something in your palm. At the same time; bring your right hand up and grip the stock. Place your head in position to aim and fire.Your left arm should be tight against the sling. I am 5'9". Using this method a bolt action rifle will extend from near the top of my head to about level with the bottom of my pants pocket. Extra short people or extra long barrels; use a barrel band sling swivel to kept the barrel near the top of your head. Using the other method the 22" barrel of a bolt action was about half way between my knee and my foot when standing upright. Bending over causes the muzzle to come close to the ground. Banging it into a rock could damage the crown. Using this method you will at times have the muzzle pointing at your foot or leg. I would like to keep both of mine. Holding the muzzle up you can see where you are pointing it at all times and I believe you have better control of the muzzle. I usually have flip-up covers on my scopes for transport. If the weather is bad I just leave the front one closed and I often remove the rear one when hunting to insure it does not interfear with cycling the bolt. Has anyone tried it like this? I saw it a lot it Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
I haven't tried it before but will just to compare. Normally if I go through something thick I carry the rifle port arms since snags can happen I think in any position. I usually carry it slung barrel up on the right side (shooting side for me) and when bringing to to shoulder it comes under my arm by my pulling the butt around with the right hand, left hand grasps forearm on the way up and voila. seems very fast to me, but I have limited experience.

Red

It sounds like you are rotating the rifle about 270 degrees and repositing your right hand from the butt to the forearm of the stock. I would think that either the method described by Oldcoyte or me would be faster as you only move the muzzle about 90 degrees and you don't need to reposition your hands. I am sure it would be safer as you can see where the muzzle is pointing at all times.

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:
It's exactly what Peter H. Capstick is recommending in " Safari, the last adventure" with a serie of pictures between pages 122 & 123.

Now the question, who was the first to have the idea? Isn't it simply basic soldiering?

This isn't the way PHC shows in Safari. The method that he shows is what army aviator just said with the muzzle up and trigger guard to the rear. It is very fast.

Yep, Capstick's method was barrel up and trigger to the rear with forward pressure exerted on the bottom of the forend, thus "tensioning' the sling. It works, but not over long periods, then i just sling it the traditional way. jorge

I've carried my long guns that way for years... Very quick to get into action too.

quote:

Originally posted by JoeR:
Has anyone actually tried shooting through that tape over the end of the bbl at the range to see if it has any effect on the POI compared to no tape? Seems it must have some effect, maybe not. I personally prefer to not use slings in Africa

Joe,

The trick is to use one strip of thin insulating tape of the muzzle..

Don't use anything thicker like duct tape..One normal medium bore hunting rifles, I 've never noticed it effecting accuracy in any way..Somebody who shoots benchrests might disagree, but thats not what we're talking about here..

Apparently the tape is blown off by the increase in air pressure with in the barrel as the bullet speeds toward it..

I believe shotguns are a different matter and their muzzles should never be obstructed for safety reasons...

Regards,

Pete

Thanks Pete, have you ever grouped a rifle with tape over it though? If a muzzle brake doubles the group size, as I've read it does, I wonder what something apparantly more drastic such as tape would do.

quote:

Originally posted by JoeR:
If a muzzle brake doubles the group size, as I've read it does...

My experience has been that a muzzle brake sometimes moves the point of impact, but I haven't noticed any significant difference in group size. It seems to me that a brake could either increase or decrease group size, by changing the harmonics of the barrel.

"I've tried three top brands, which the manufacturers insisted on installing themselves. All three doubled group size." D'Arcy Echols, Rifle #201.

Has been my usual carry method for decades. Normally have barrels covered with electrical tape.

Non-shooting shoulder,rifle forward, barrel-up, is faster and less likely to get dirt in the muzzle. SGraves155

I carry my rifles with a vinyl cap on the muzzle.

These are frequently used as thread protectectors
on precision -6 hydraulic fittings and sometimes as shipping caps on things like heater cores for cars.

They are 5/8" ID and DO affect point of impact at long range
but If I ever find a NEED to get the rifle into action FAST
I would presume it's something big, fast, dangerous and CLOSE and thus any effect on POI would be minor.

I've always managed to reach up and pull the cap off before shooting, and slip it into my pocket so I can put it on after
the need to shoot is past...

As far as electrical tape one pass over the muzzle
one wrap around the barrel to hold it on the tape
is blown apart before the bullet gets to the muzzle.

What's more interesting, is what happens to the tape
around the barrel when the barrel is MagnaPorted.

AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by JoeR:
"I've tried three top brands, which the manufacturers insisted on installing themselves. All three doubled group size." D'Arcy Echols, Rifle #201.

Joe:

I have 4 braked rifles that shoot well under an inch. I guess if I take off that break they will be bug holers.

I don't use a sling much, but if you do use one and carry the barrel up or angled across your back, try walking with (for right handed shooters) your right hand resting on the wrist of the rifle. (It falls there naturally) and if you want to get the rifle into action quickly, just grip the rifle and pull forwards and up... at the same time, bring your other hand onto the forend of the rifle....the stock just falls into the shooting position.....

quote:

Originally posted by Oldcoyote:
Jean B.

I will order Capstick's book, thanks. Any other recommendations?

Hi Oldcoyotte,

This book is really interesting and is providing most of what one needs about hunting in Africa.

In Africa I am rarely carrying my rifle this way....because I am carrying my bow and a tracker is carrying my rifle.
Anyhow in France or when needed in Africa, I am absolutely carrying my rifle this way as long as not in action. In action, like everybody, my rifle is poised slightly upward so as not to shoot the tracker or the PH.
I insist this method is extra secure, fast and comfortable.
Good luck

I used one of the Cabelas safari slings for a couple of hunting seasons now. I kind of like the it. It keeps the rifle in front of you, being a lefty I use my right hand to rest on the barrel foreward of the scope and it keeps the muzzle in a safe direction and is actually comfortable. My personal experience is that after walking with a rifle without a sling, I get tired as the day goes on and I'm not as aware as I should be of where the muzzle is pointing every second. Down side to the sling is if you fall, it is easy to crawl on hands and knees with and if your rifle is reasonabley balanced it keeps the muzzle out of the crud. I would probabley do the tape thing though from now on. I've used this sling on iron sighted rifles also, it seemed to fall away from the sight path just fine. It's great for tree stand hunting, as you can hold the rifle at the ready, but don't have to worry about dropping it.

Another advantage of carrying a rifle sling down is that it does not hook on branches of trees, esecially when ducking under low thorn tree branches.
I have found however that after a couple of hours and a lenghty walk my carrying position changes as the rifle gets heavier & heavier...

I don't view the "Capstick" muzzle up carry and the "AK Forestry Service" muzzle down carry as two different styles of carry. They are both the same overall technique w/ total control of the muzzle. The "Castick" is just rotated up and the "AK" is rotated down.

As far as sticking the "AK" low muzzle into the ground or sticking the "Capstick" high muzzle into overhangs, you always can maintain control of your muzzle and can rotate up or down as needed. I look at going from these positions to a firing position, port arms, and/or back again as one fluid motion w/out too much hand shuffling.

As far as long hikes are concerned, it is more comfortable and natural for me to rotate the muzzle down w/ my off hand holding the forend (controlling the muzzle) w/ the receiver tucked tight against my side held by my inner arm and w/ the bolt knob resting in the crook of my arm.

When I'm going through tall grass, water, etc., I'll rotate the muzzle up and/or go to a hand carry.

My favorite carry method when hiking all day in the mountains is to grasp the scope tube w/ one hand (like a handle). Most of my rifles balance well this way and it is easier than the same rifle w/ the scope removed and carrying by other methods.

Gary

I have carried this way for over 25 years.

You may have to adjust your barrel length to your own height however.

I can only carry a 22 inch tube muzzle down but I am only 5 foot 5 inches tall.

Here is photo of my recent november safair.



Andy

Allen,
if your rifles blow the tape off before the bullet gets there you have a really bad, shot out barrel.
The bullet is supposed to be of a size to completely seal the bore so that all of those expanding propellant gasses are used to push the bullet down the tube. Am I wrong here?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Allen,
if your rifles blow the tape off before the bullet gets there you have a really bad, shot out barrel.
The bullet is supposed to be of a size to completely seal the bore so that all of those expanding propellant gasses are used to push the bullet down the tube. Am I wrong here?

Rich

It is the volume of air w/in the barrel ahead of the bullet that pushes the tape off, not the gases behind the bullet. The bullet acts like the piston in a bicycle pump and the tape is not strong enough to hold the pressure and therefore blows off prior to the bullet reaching the muzzle.

I've carried a rifle this way since about 1960. It's fast to get into action with an automatic hasty sling. The shortcomings are: You can't run, uphill is a problem, forget climbing, the thornbush will scratch your barrel. Sometimes th "conventional" muzzle up carry is better, and port arms is often necessary.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Allen,
if your rifles blow the tape off before the bullet gets there you have a really bad, shot out barrel.
The bullet is supposed to be of a size to completely seal the bore so that all of those expanding propellant gasses are used to push the bullet down the tube. Am I wrong here?

Rich

It is the volume of air w/in the barrel ahead of the bullet that pushes the tape off, not the gases behind the bullet. The bullet acts like the piston in a bicycle pump and the tape is not strong enough to hold the pressure and therefore blows off prior to the bullet reaching the muzzle.

Exactly right, that 20-odd inch long column of air trapped between the bullet and the tape has gotta go SOMEWHERE as that bullet accelerates down the barrel.... the tape doesn't have a chance.

AllanD