I just received this email from a Mr Brett Cole: (he's referring to a Baboon pic I posted somewhere)

You should be ashamed, especially killing the alpha males. Disgraceful.

Brett

--
Brett Cole
Conservation Photographer

My reply:
Mr. Cole,
I'm never ashamed of killing Baboons. In fact I try on every occasion to kill those crop raiding, fawn killing pests. Indigenous people of the area have a hard enough time raising maze in rough conditions. Would you be willing to stand guard from first light until after dark every single day of the growing season? Would you be willing to feed these hungry people who lose a lot of their corn to Baboons, not to mention rodents and Elephants? The only reason they get relief from the night watch is due to heavy concentrations of Leopards that prowl at night. No sir, I'm not ashamed at all. You however seem to judge someone you don't know at all, and evidently have little or no knowledge of what Baboons are really about. Have you ever watched an Alpha male catch and eat live fawns? I have, and I don't see photographers posting that on their web site. And just so you know, this wasn't the Alpha male. He was hiding in the bush or I would have shot him too. You want to condemn me, have at it. But I would find a subject you understand.
David

He immediately fired back:
On 6/14/2010 1:39 PM, Brett Cole wrote:
> I know 100x more about baboons than you ever will. I've spent 10x more time with them than you ever will
>
>
I replied (for the final time regardless of what rhetoric he spews back)
Get a life

David - I too get these from time to time, amazing! Sometimes I engage them, sometimes not, just depends on how much energy I have to argue with a moron. Its a lot like trying to talk sense to a liberal, IMPOSSIBLE!!!

True Aaron. 99.9% of the time I just delete and hit "junk mail." This guy says I'm killing to make a profit (in his latest reply; which I just deleted and didn't respond). Frankly, he's the one making the profit. His studio obviously isn't giving photo's away...hardly.

David,

Should have told him that it was a pregnant female and your PH offered you two for the price of one.

For those who might have missed it, below is one I got from a supposedly "professor"!


Here is one I got a little way back

This guy Cole is a pretty good photographer. Too bad he's an idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Its a lot like trying to talk sense to a liberal, IMPOSSIBLE!!!

+1

Brett

This is a case of too much formal education, and too little common sense!


........................

David,

Don't fight with idiots. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
David,

Should have told him that it was a pregnant female and your PH offered you two for the price of one.

Andrew - What about the Jockey, man you could actually get 3 for 1.

quote:

I know 100x more about baboons than you ever will. I've spent 10x more time with them than you ever will

Must be those family reunions. Wonder what troop he hails from?

Now Jim, that was hilarious! Thanks! And yes Frank, your correct. My bad to even reply but sometimes I forget what Aaron said...you can't argue with a stooge.
David

quote:

I know 100x more about baboons than you ever will. I've spent 10x more time with them than you ever will

Following Jim's lead, I probably would have replied something along the lines of:

"Brett, I'm sorry to hear that, but that's not a nice thing to call your wife!"

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

I know 100x more about baboons than you ever will. I've spent 10x more time with them than you ever will

Must be those family reunions. Wonder what troop he hails from?

I heard they could manipulate basic tools but never heard of one using a camera?

I think I should be able to flog him until he relinquishes MY name!

Brett

David!i also gets this type of letters ofen and there is just one solution for this matter!dont answer the post and they will soon get feed upp with sending this stupid post to you

What an idiot!!!

I would love to know what the hell a "conservation photographer" is. If he was in fact capturing pics of conservation in action, then surely he would have a far greater understanding of hunting and its role in conservation. I agree with Aaron though that it is not worth getting into an argument with a moron.
I know I am talking to the converted here but when will these people understand just how much of a contribution hunting makes to Conservation in Africa. Take the Save Conservancy as an example. If Hunting were stopped today, I would guess that about 50 to 60% of the people employed on the Conservancy would be out of jobs within a year. Poaching would escalate very quickly to completely unmanageable levels. The Rhino programme would be non existant because land owners who generate revenue from hunting would simply not be able to afford their portion of the programme. I certainly dont see the antis flooding to shore up the holes that hunting would leave. I say again What an idiot!!!!!

This the Reply I sent when one person questioned why I "killed animals":

Why I Hunt:
Man is an eyes forward predator who has been a hunter for the past million or more years. It’s in our genes to hunt--some of us still enjoy the hunt as one of the best things in life. We do it because we enjoy it.
Is it wrong to eat meat ? Not according to the majority of religions. I enjoy eating the meat of animals I have hunted, but sometimes feel a bit guilty if eating domesticated/slaughtered meat.
If one were to be re-incarnated as a male animal whose end was to be eaten by man, would the logical choice be to 1) be born in the wild (and suffering predation by 4-legged predators, cold, lack of food during tough times, but living in freedom and possibly attaining maturity and beyond) or
2) to be born in captivity, castrated at birth, protected from predators, provided with feed and water, vaccinated against disease, but taken to the slaughterhouse at age 16-20 months? Some might choose option 2, but not me. It is my opinion that the slaughtering of millions of young domesticated cattle, goats, sheep, and chickens is a far worse thing than the hunting of old males of any species.
Taking pictures of animals in Parks that have become accustomed to people/vehicles is lots of fun. It is, however, nothing like trying to approach animals in the wild that have been hunted. They do not wish to be seen if they can help it.
In Africa and the rest of the third world, starvation of human beings is a rather common problem. How can a man solve the problems of his family during times of starvation, or just provide protein during regular times? He can plant land--if he can keep the animals out of what was once their home. He can kill wild animals (any wild animal, young, either sex), or perhaps he can buy food from beyond the area. In Africa, the common means of killing animals is professional poaching at night, from a truck, with a light, with 5-6 helpers in the truck to load the multiple slain animals which will be sold as bush-meat in the local villages. This rather quickly decimates the wildlife populations. There are two alternatives to this decimation: Wild-life Parks and Hunting concessions.
The reality is that in both areas, the human poachers must be killed (or imprisoned).
In the Park, the animals that die of old-age are eaten by predators or scavengers.
In the hunting concession, the meat of the old bulls goes to the villages.
The money that comes from Parks or Hunting concessions seldom makes it down to village level. Some of the money from Both the Tourist/photographer and the Visiting Hunter is used to keep professional anti-poaching units in action killing poachers. Nothing short of killing really seems to work.
I have never been to a remote African Village that wasn’t very happy to see a hunter--except/unless they already had an organized poaching ring operating from the village.

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:
What an idiot!!!

I would love to know what the hell a "conservation photographer" is.

http://www.brettcolephotography.com/about.html

"My major conservation projects have dealt with forests in the Pacific Northwest, wetlands and wild birds, South African baboons, and tropical rain forests and cloud forests. I've also completed many multimedia projects for conservation groups, including web design, custom mapping, video production, and page layout."

http://brettcole.photoshelter....ca/G0000ZElblJKZUTE/

http://brettcole.photoshelter....ld/G0000Zxwpd9zXFEQ/

I bet baboon boy has more hits on his web site than ever. And from who? We hunters? I removed his link from my post to avoid shedding light on this character

L.David Keith:

Welcome back and I hope this means that Nashville has recovered.(A charming city I saw nearly 40 years ago and never forgot -even if I never got back) I laughed out loud at your reply to the baboon protector about shooting them. I saw an "Alpha" baboon about 40 feet away from me -and got into a staring contest with him -and my PH told me to stop staring or else shoot him. (He was approaching in a bouncing manner) I always regretted that I didn't shoot him -after what I learned about baboons)

Thank you Gerry. I'm still a ways from finishing the rebuild but we're underway now. Floods are a nightmare I hope no one reading this ever experiences. But I'm sure that's a shallow hope. Yes, I would be happy to shoot Baboons on a daily basis. Baboon's, just like the Wolves in our Western States, are creatures the Bunny Pimps can't begin to understand what they're really about unless you have to live with them. I don't necessarily want to see them extinct (they're too much fun to shoot) but having some childlike compassion for them isn't in my nature, nor mindset. Baboon's like Wolves are by nature bloody killers. That's just what they do. Ask some of the ladies around Cape Town what they think about all those Uncle Bob's running around. I say light 'em up!
Cheers,
David

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:
What an idiot!!!

I would love to know what the hell a "conservation photographer" is.

http://www.brettcolephotography.com/about.html

"My major conservation projects have dealt with forests in the Pacific Northwest, wetlands and wild birds, South African baboons, and tropical rain forests and cloud forests. I've also completed many multimedia projects for conservation groups, including web design, custom mapping, video production, and page layout."

http://brettcole.photoshelter....ca/G0000ZElblJKZUTE/

http://brettcole.photoshelter....ld/G0000Zxwpd9zXFEQ/

Guess I gotta call myself a Conservation Shooter then!!!!!

I once wanted to do a 3 baboon grouping - 2 females and one male. One with a sign "Hi I'm Bill" next "HI I am Hilery" and the third sign "Guess Who" dressed in a blue dress.

David, rather than spend several valuable minutes of your day engaging this idiot, perhaps your time would have been better spent with a succinct reply of "Go thee forth, and procreate thyself".

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I once wanted to do a 3 baboon grouping - 2 females and one male. One with a sign "Hi I'm Bill" next "HI I am Hilery" and the third sign "Guess Who" dressed in a blue dress.

I'm guessing the third one would be the ...."Community Organizer"

I think it was at least in part to generate hit to his sight, and to also be able to tell peole that he is a staunch supporter of no-hunting or whatever.

I'd take the link down too, although I'll admit to going there to see how many baboons he did have pics of. it actually was a lot, but I didn't see any of the pics of them destroying things, killing other animals, eating chimpanzee babies etc.

Red

L. David:
No doubt Mr. Cole has spent 100 times more than you with his baboon friends because he enjoys a smoke after his performance...and they enjoy the afterglow.


Dutch

I hate to judge people on the basis of what they write on the internet. I can see by the man's pictures that he does in fact have an eye for the camera. Unfortunately, he also seems convinced of the truth of his opinion, his absolute superiority of character over hunters, and his authority on the natural world, which has lead to his stupid and irrelevant comments to an experienced outdoorsman. It hurts to think about how many people share his opinions.

The problem in engaging this type of mentality is their arguments are emotional, with little or no basis in science or even with true conservation in mind.

When you counter with facts, science and true conservation minded ideas, they have no response other than another emotional one.

That's when they generally resort to name calling.

I've encountered this for my entire career and the basic arguments they provide never change no matter the true status of the natural resource. Thank God, I'm close to retirement as it really does get tiresome.

Protect to them means - Exclude all human involvement or contact.

Conserve to them means - Prohibit all human "consumption" of the resource. Consumption meaning any harvest for any reason.

True conservationists realize the need and good management of responsible multiple use of our public lands and waters, responsible game and fish management through controlled and selective harvest, and the importance of active human involvement with our natural resources to ensure our place as stewards of the resource for future generations is secure.

Andy:

You don't mention names but I assume from your reference to a "picture" that you have L.David Keith in your sights. You may be an "experienced outdoorsman" but that may mask the fact that you are not a hunter who ever has seen baboons (in the wild)-and quite frankly, childlike sentimentality about shot animals in a picture does nothing to "protect" wildlife. (It was duck hunters who lobbied for passage of the Federal Duck Stamp Act, back in the 1930s who voluntarily imposed a tax upon themselves in order to save hunting of migratory birds) I don't see where the so called "greenies" or the "Environmentalists" ever want to help out that way. (My mother with her brainwashing techniques persuaded me not to shoot rabbits -but she picked a lovable animal -and I never shot rabbits.Fact) - Anyone who ever saw a baboon troop would not characterize them as "lovable". Why not try the soft word instead of insulting hunters as some kind of atavistic throwback to primitive man? (Come to think of it - primitive man only survived by conquering his environment. (Yeah, your favorite word) He didn't kneel down and worship it.

Gerry, I don't think Andy meant me. He was referring to the guy who sent me the email: Mr. Cole. I think he referred to me as the "experienced Outdoorsman." Regardless, that's how I read his post. I found no one's reply offensive or chastising me; rather the opposite as we all here are of same mind set as to hunting. However, the reason I posted this to begin with was to shed light on this person's thoughts. First, he assumes I "shot the Alpha male." In fact there were 3 mature males in the troop. The "Alpha" male was far too clever and kept his distance (310 yards) which is not out of my ability to use my .223, rather he kept his entire body behind a large rock, only to occasionally peep up from behind. I was ready to scalp him when the male I shot came running up the ridge, exposing himself. I was predator squealing at the troop and many of the females were perched in the tree tops screaming back at me, all the while moving towards my position. That forced the male I shot to make a mistake: try and get them back to him and the other 2 males. If you examine the teeth (k-9s) in my picture, you can see he is obviously not an old male. Their teeth are generally worn down to a smaller size. The other assumption Mr. Cole made is: he has no idea how much I know about Baboons, nor how much time I have been around them. Point being, he assumes what he does not know to be fact.
All the best,
David

Folks, from experience as someone who worked for 24+ years around people such as the person that sent the letter to Mr. Keith, ChopperGuy's response covers the whole situation.

Especially his opening sentence: The problem in engaging this type of mentality is their arguments are emotional, with little or no basis in science or even with true conservation in mind.

Adressing these individuals concerns/claims/comments, with facts or rational is pointless and useless.

Their minmd is made up, and no matter how valid the information a person presents them with, they are not going to listen or learn.

Also, and again from experience, the calmer and more rational and factual your statements are, the more emotional and confrontational their reactions become.

Here is one dedicated to Mr. Cole



Aziz

David:

I reread Andy's post -and have concluded that,as usual,this old Irishman shot too quickly from the hip. (I also did it at 20) I hope Andy will overlook my wild shots. (Yes, I will send him an apology)

Andy:

L.David Keith has pointed out to me that I was shooting at the wrong target in my response to your post. An old Irishman should not be trusted with shooting anything - including electronic bullets. I truly do apologize. (The Irish say that "the worst word in your mouth is good enough for me?" -meaning that we have a bad tongue sometimes. We talk too much.)