quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wolfgar, the poster in question is more full of shit than a latrine.

What a buffoon!

MR, what an ugly thing to say! I abhor ugliness...

You and Wolfgar really should show the proper respect when in the presence of such reported skill. Me, I'm genuflecting even as I type this...

Never kept a shod horse in my life; always left 'em barefoot. Kept them standing up on their hooves with a pair of nippers, a rasp and a frog knife. From the physical aspect, not at all unlike horseshoeing...never noticed it improving my shooting though. Musta been doin' it wrong...see, here's where we could all stand to learn something new.

Wasn't there a Dixie Chicks CD around here somewhere?

Mark

Whatever you choose I suggest a ton of offhand rapid-fire practice.

SHOOTAWAY is simply and truley full of horse shit, and that is the end of that story!!

BYE

MacD37,when it comes to performing in a dangerous situation like a leopard attack I am a Hans Solo!

I picked up a 9.3x74 BERRETA GOLD SABEL O/U at the last Gun show.
That rifle would be my choice if I had one in such a circumstance..
ozhunter

Shootaway, My PH said that if a leopard is on someone, you run up and put the muzzle against the leopard, but not pointing at the victim, before you pull the trigger. The leopard will put people in the hospital, the bullet puts people in the grave.

I agree,but if you are at some distance and it may be too long before you get there and you are given an easy shot and will accept all the responsibility.A leopard will also put you in the grave.It is up to you to do whatever is necessary to save the hunter and assume all responsibility of the outcome.I think I would prefer a 458WM instead of a 300WM if it is as accurate at short and medium distances.

I would rather take my chances with the Leopard than have someone trying to shoot the Leopard off me from any more than 2-3 yards

My father once told me that a person should choose his battles wisely.

For example, if you choose to wrestle and fight with a pig, even if you win, you will come out smelling like pigshit. In light of that sage advice, I will follow the lead of mrlexma and ForrestB and refrain from wasting my time arguing with people whose absurd opinions themselves reveal more than any rebuttal comments could hope to do.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
MacD37,when it comes to performing in a dangerous situation like a leopard attack I am a Hans Solo!

You are HANS SOLO alright, but not in the way you mean!

Shootaway,C Wilson's father was right, but some things must be made clear to a perpetrator of false information, and that is, are you really naive enough to think anyone here believes,anything a 15 yr old has to say on this subject? Learn what it takes to stop rabbits, before you form an opinion on stoping Leopard!

Sounds like to me that shootaway is a position shooter. Lots of difference from a standing "position" shooter than a "field off hand shooter.

I would choose my 416 shooting 400gr bullets. Dead cat!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Calibre doesn't really matter much - anything over about a .30 cal will do. Open sights with a big bead foresight, short barrel(s) for fast handling and a good quality fast expanding bullet.

From my personal experience, shotguns are a complete waste of time in these situations.

From your experience... maybe you don't shoot a shotgun enough. Both eyes open with a 12 ga skeet gun would be much easier.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by shakari:
Calibre doesn't really matter much - anything over about a .30 cal will do. Open sights with a big bead foresight, short barrel(s) for fast handling and a good quality fast expanding bullet.

From my personal experience, shotguns are a complete waste of time in these situations.

quote:

by Shikari

I can give you an example that happened to me a couple of years ago.- (I've posted the pic before but I hope no-one will mind looking again) I was up in Tanzania hunting a client on a 21 day safari and had one of the PHs who works for us in Botswana along to see how our operation works up there. We ended up with a wounded Leopard and the other PH & I did the (night-time) follow up together. To cut a long story short, I was using my .500 and he was using a 12 gauge shotgun. (can't remember the shot size but it was bloody big). The Leopard charged from thick cover and we both shot together, dropping the cat at six or seven yards. (see pic) On later examination, my bullet had entered the face and exited the opposite haunch. The shotgun pellets had penetrated the skin and dented the skull - but not penetrated. The shot had also broken the cats jaw on both sides, so it was a full in the face shot and that disability would have slowed the cat down had he gotten to us..... but the point is, it hadn't penetrated the skull and therefore wouldn't have killed the cat.

quote:

by Ireload2
From your experience... maybe you don't shoot a shotgun enough. Both eyes open with a 12 ga skeet gun would be much easier.

Ireload2 I don't think the shooting is the problem, but lack of penitration is! The leopard was hit right in the face, but didn't penetrate the skull!

I have only one experience with buck shot and that was on a young whitetail buck I shot at 20 yds on the shoulder.It went down but was bouncing back up and seem to still have all the energy in the world.Another shot in the neck from up close expired him and when gutted and skined we found no shot penetrated the body,shot was found flattened just beneath the hide.I still don't understand why he went down in the first place.Another time I shot a small boar at 50yds,he fell down and got back up and made his way along with the group he was with to were I was standing.I got up on a wooden fence and part way up a tree because I had no idea as to what they had in mind.The one I shot was cut in the face by the shot.They all stared at me from beneath the tree and I fired a few rds just over their heads to send them on their way.The one that was injured did not budge,he just stood there and I shot it in the head.I was a teenager when this happened.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
MacD37,when it comes to performing in a dangerous situation like a leopard attack I am a Hans Solo!

You are HANS SOLO alright, but not in the way you mean!

Shootaway,C Wilson's father was right, but some things must be made clear to a perpetrator of false information, and that is, are you really naive enough to think anyone here believes,anything a 15 yr old has to say on this subject? Learn what it takes to stop rabbits, before you form an opinion on stoping Leopard!

Mac

I don't see a problem with shootaways claims. I had my my old girlfriend hold a dime in her lips and consistently shot it at 100 yards. (only missed 3 times )

I once shot a 1/4" group with my 577 3" at 200 yards off hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
MacD37,when it comes to performing in a dangerous situation like a leopard attack I am a Hans Solo!

You are HANS SOLO alright, but not in the way you mean!

Shootaway,C Wilson's father was right, but some things must be made clear to a perpetrator of false information, and that is, are you really naive enough to think anyone here believes,anything a 15 yr old has to say on this subject? Learn what it takes to stop rabbits, before you form an opinion on stoping Leopard!

Mac

I don't see a problem with shootaways claims. I had my my old girlfriend hold a dime in her lips and consistently shot it at 100 yards. (only missed 3 times )

I once shot a 1/4" group with my 577 3" at 200 yards off hand.

Are you that wasn't three old girlfriends?

Take the rifle you shoot best and your most comfortable with.Forget the shotgun, from what I heard regularly, their a complete waste of time and effort carrying them,unless u plan to shoot birds.
Quick shot maybe order of the day, but if your comfortable and happy with your rifle, no shot should never be so quick so you can`t aim properly, else it would be waste of time and ammo pulling the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Mac


I once shot a 1/4" group with my 577 3" at 200 yards off hand.

[/QUOTE]
==========================))))> (X) 200yds

I'd be quite interested in watching a demonstration of anyone hitting a CD donsistently at 300 yards off hand with anything. I shoot a lot offhand and shoot clays at 100 yards, still miss every fourth one of so and I don't hunt with anyone who can do better offhand. Shooting them at 300 would be quite a trick with a 15 mile and hour gusting wind. For what it's worth, most of the rifles anyone owns won't do this from a machine rest at 300 yards. I believe I'd rather have Shakari backing me up on a leopard charge.

You would need a very accurate rifle like a 308 with one hole 5 shot groups at 200yds,and a knowledge of how to maintain it.I shot a factory Remington varmint rifle with a laminated stock,tubb fireing pin and spring, loaded with 168g?? hornady VLD molly coated match bullets,Win cases,and either VV540 or Varget powder.It was not that hard and can imagine someone doing much better as I was never a full time shooter.I would shoot through fall and winter for about 8 yrs,once or twice a week or every two weeks.The shooting range was somewhat protected from wind as it was narrow(30yds) with high earth banks along the length.I got my truck warming up this moment and I am going to try to shoot a hundred rds offhand at the range if there is not anyone around.

OK is a .416 under-powered to shoot a CD at 200 metres?

It has been worrying me a lot lately.

if the CD ws still in the protective plastic case...I'd say you were borderline undergunned
troy

.....and if the CD is in a protective plastic case one would have to use solids.......

If I ever had a back-up rifleman like any of the above posters I would be Purina cat chow!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If I ever had a back-up rifleman like any of the above posters I would be Purina cat chow!

Your so full of shit you couldn't get anybody to go with you.

Even if your parents could afford it.

An FAL in .308 Have bayonette as an added insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
A 300wm or something close to it,in a win mod 70 crf rifle or something close to it,with a barrel free of copper fouling and throat erosion and a good high power accurate load with a quality bullet.Hold on tightly to your rifle and don't shoot unless you have the forehead in the crosshairs.If you do you might be a goner.Also,if my first shot didn't drop him for whatever reason, I would follow up quickly with a head shot.As for double barrel rifles or shotguns,I would not trust them for DG because of the problems I have experienced with 3 different double shotguns hunting small game.

i would love to see you try to find the forehead of a charging leopard in thick thorn brush through ANY rifle scope. the one i shot with a load of 12 gauge 00 buckshot barely gave me time to shoulder the weapon and fell less than 10 feet off the end of the barrell. the entire sequence lasted probably less than 8 seconds from the time we walked up to the edge of the blackthorn where he was bayed until he was dead. i shoot a lot more rounds through my o/u shotgun than i ever will through any of my rifles and it just shoulders by itself- something to consider when the shit hits the fan jerry

I would not go into any thick thorn bush if I thought there could be a wounded leopard inside,unless I had a ton of offhand rifle practice at moveing objects in close quarters,and I don't mean a few rds of practice each season.As for my choice in firearm,I stand by a 300WM and above.I would not want to shoot a pumped-up 300lb muscular leopard with buckshot and expect to stop an attack.

300 lb leopard?!? Steroids perhaps?

I don't understand why you guys encourage this troll. To anyone, with even a modicum of knowledge and experience, it's obvious that he's so full os $hit that his eyes are brown. If everyone just pretended that his posts didn't exist, he'd probably fade away in time.

i re read an article the other day that made me think of this thread...

ed stevens ( a well known and experienced alaska guide) uses a browning lever action to guide his clients going for brown bears in 45-70...he told the story of how the 45-70 had saved his hide on multiple occasions and retold the story of stopping a charging bear with a 405 soft in the skull and it skid up to him only a few feet away. he likes the leveraction and 45-70 combo to get off multiple shots in a hurry in a defensive situation. so if it is good enough for him and big bad hard skulled brownies...well it is just a matter of performing when the need arises. he said brown bears are like rattlesnakes...whenever you dont expect them, there they are. yes the 45-70 is not ideal for long range or for ideal elephant hunting but in defensive situations like cat hunting in the brush...it makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
A Tanz PH told me that he really regretted taking Robin Hurt's advice and using a rifle on a wounded leopard follow up.

I also saw the wicked scars that caused those regrets.

And another of Robins' Ph's used a 12 ga 2 years ago and got mauled after both barrels - the 2nd at point blank - failed to stop the cat. Hardly penetrated the muscles. Not sure what ammo he used but suffice to say he is one of the most experienced PH's on Robins' books.

A Street Sweeper. Do they still make those by the way?

quickshot,

All this discussion may be about a moot point as the PH may not want you on the follow up if you wound the leopard. He will have enough to worry about let alone protecting you. We all would like to think we could clean up our own messes but it might not be the wise thing to do in this case. Just take your time and drill the leopard on the first try.

Mark

In many charge situations with cats, there is only time for one shot. If you are going to use a shotgun, use a slug. I believe there is a video called "claws" or "mawled" that was done several years ago in Zim. They tested all the shotgun loads. The only load that had enough penetration was the slug. In my opinion, a double is the only choice when facing a charging animal because it is the fastest way to get two shots in one second. Like others have said, the only way to avoid charges is making the first shot count.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
A Tanz PH told me that he really regretted taking Robin Hurt's advice and using a rifle on a wounded leopard follow up.

I also saw the wicked scars that caused those regrets.

And another of Robins' Ph's used a 12 ga 2 years ago and got mauled after both barrels - the 2nd at point blank - failed to stop the cat. Hardly penetrated the muscles. Not sure what ammo he used but suffice to say he is one of the most experienced PH's on Robins' books.

I believe that the use of proper ammunition, with plated or hardened buckshot, must be the key to the effectiveness of a shotgun on leopard.

Too many have used a shotgun on leopard to good effect for me to think otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
A Tanz PH told me that he really regretted taking Robin Hurt's advice and using a rifle on a wounded leopard follow up.

I also saw the wicked scars that caused those regrets.

And another of Robins' Ph's used a 12 ga 2 years ago and got mauled after both barrels - the 2nd at point blank - failed to stop the cat. Hardly penetrated the muscles. Not sure what ammo he used but suffice to say he is one of the most experienced PH's on Robins' books.

I believe that the use of proper ammunition, with plated or hardened buckshot, must be the key to the effectiveness of a shotgun on leopard.

Too many have used shotguns on leopard to good effect for me to think otherwise.

I guess this is one of those arguments that will never have a unanimous answer. Like which are better, blondes or Brunettes?

In my experience (sorry - the omly Leopard I ever shot was dead when she hit the ground), I would use what I know works, and that would be the rifle I would probably have given him the first shot with - my .375 with 1-4x20 Leupold scope and a 300gr soft. I would NOT attempt that follow-up alone, though. My companion should use the firearm he shoots best.