I know they are available on ranches there but were they "native" or introduced?

Introduced.

Brett

They were originally native only to the savanna grasslands of South Africa. Nearly exterminated, they have been re-introduced to many areas of SA and now also to Namibia. They can carry rinderpest, and must be confined by double-row game-fences in the Cattle raising areas of Namibia.

Thought so, thanks.

Must be established and roaming some though. Talked with a guy that just got back from ARUB and he saw them there and it's a low cattle fence ranch with free range critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Thought so, thanks.

Must be established and roaming some though. Talked with a guy that just got back from ARUB and he saw them there and it's a low cattle fence ranch with free range critters.

Could be, but I'd be willing to bet it's a double-row low fence. Especially if the farm they are on abuts a cattle farm.

quote:

Originally posted by Jorge400:



Could be, but I'd be willing to bet it's a double-row low fence. Especially if the farm they are on abuts a cattle farm.

So that means they have to jump twice.

Frostbit,

Indigenous non-indigenous in my mind is neither black nor white. I would not pursue a bongo in Texas because the experience would be so far removed from what you would have in the jungles of central Africa. In the case of trying for a black wildebeest in Namibia as opposed to RSA were in both cases the animals have been introduced I fail to see that one offers a more satisfying or authentic experience than the other. If you want a black wildebeest on your safari in Namibia take one.

Mark

As a general rule of thumb and a handy hint, if you want to know if a species is indigenous to an area, look it up in the RW book and check it's distribution.

If it's indigenous, it'll be listed there and if not, it either doesn't occur there or it isn't indigenous to that area.

How's that for a useless piece of information.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Frostbit,

Indigenous non-indigenous in my mind is neither black nor white. I would not pursue a bongo in Texas because the experience would be so far removed from what you would have in the jungles of central Africa. In the case of trying for a black wildebeest in Namibia as opposed to RSA were in both cases the animals have been introduced I fail to see that one offers a more satisfying or authentic experience than the other. If you want a black wildebeest on your safari in Namibia take one.

Mark

Looks like we are on the same page. I guess I could have choosen my words better. Established and self sustaining fits the bill for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Established and self sustaining fits the bill for me.

Yes, well established and quite self-sustaining. Here is a Gold Medal example from the Hardap region of southern Namibia:





I think they are much more interesting than the blue wildebeest.

Frostbit, in general law we must have a double low fence for them 10m apart, it must be a game proof low fence meaning 12 wires +. What do happen is that sometimes it's a smaller camp in a larger camp, that will also go as a doubkle fence. Then there is another way a lot of ranchers do it and that includes me as well. I only have a double low fence where I'm neighbours with cattle ranchers, most of my propperty however is bordering game ranchers that also keep Blue and Black Wildebeest and we have an agreement with each other that we do not put double fences and does not keep the other liable should there be an illness outbreak.

You must ask your friend how many wires did the low fence have, many hunters see a lowfence and PH's tell them it's free roaming, there is no place in Namibia where you will find Black or Blue wildebeest free roaming, they are way to expensive to buy. I gues it was a low game proof fence. Black or Blue wildebeest does not jump fences so the low game proof fence acts that same as a High game fence for these species.

Roy

I think Roy is correct.
Neither blue nor black wildebbeest is native to Namibia.
the only blue wildebeeest I've klled was in Namibia. And the blues were far wilder than the blacks. But this was only my experience.

Now don't get carried away there gentlemen, Black maybe but Blue Wildebeest is very native to Namibia. They already roam the grasslands of Eastern Namibia before the first pioneers arrived and did so untill only 60 years ago.

quote:

You must ask your friend how many wires did the low fence have, many hunters see a lowfence and PH's tell them it's free roaming, there is no place in Namibia where you will find Black or Blue wildebeest free roaming, they are way to expensive to buy. I gues it was a low game proof fence. Black or Blue wildebeest does not jump fences so the low game proof fence acts that same as a High game fence for these species.

Correction, there are free ranging blue wildebeest in the northeastern parts of Namibia. They are native to the area.

Black wildebeest as already pointed out are introduced, occurring on private land exclusively and originate from South Africa.

Guys, I didn't say that Blue Wildebeest wasn't native to Namibia, I said they must be within a 10 m boundary fence. I'm well aware that they used to roam in a big part of Namibia. I don't know of any Blue wildebeest free roaming in Namibia today and I'm not including concession areas, I'm talking about private land where cattle farming is still of practise.If Vaughn knows od areas where they are free roaming and cattle farming do still exist then I stand corrected.

Just for intrest sake and some of the other Nambian PH's can correct me if I'm not 100% with my facts is that in the earlier years when Blue Wildebeest was roaming in big parts of Namibia the Government at that time told farmers to shoot them on site due to the fact that they carry deseases that can kill cattle. I've heard from older farmers that they were shot like jackals when they saw them. Cattle farming was very big in those days and very little if not no trophy hunting.

Regards

Roy

quote:

Originally posted by Otjandaue Hunting Safaris:
Frostbit, in general law we must have a double low fence for them 10m apart, it must be a game proof low fence meaning 12 wires +.
Roy

The situation and fence that Frosbit alluded to was a 6 strand, plain wire fence that was just under my waist height. All the fences on the property, including boundary fences were exactly the same type. The Kudu went over them with ease, the Sprinbok and Gemsbok underneath thanks to the warthogs, and the zebra on two occasions simply took 50 m of the fence down

My understanding from the landowner where I hunted (Heino Voigts, Nomtsas, Maltahohe, Namibia) is that virtually all of the game on his farm with the exception of plains zebra, black wildebeest, and eland, is native and has not been supplemented by imported stock. So, I believe that the blue wildebeest there are indigenous animals (if memory serves correctly).

However, no animal in that area is totally "free roaming" since 100% of the land is enclosed by one type of fence or another, albeit the fences on Nomtsas divide parcels of as much as 20,000 hectares (nearly 50,000 acres). I suppose you could call the kudu, springok, warthogs, baboon, and jackals "free roaming" since none of the fences can actually contain them.

Harvey, then he surley is brave to have Black Wildebeest in only 6 strand wire, if they brake out to th eneighbour ranch then it becomes his property unless he has an arrangement with the neighbour to fetch them back which can be a costly situation. I didn't know that there was actually ranches that took that chance since Blue and Black Wildebeest is so expensive to buy. You always learn something new, but I must say that 95% of game ranchers will have them enclosed in a low game fence especially up north where there is a lot of bush and they can dissapear quickly.

As Vaughan stated, free ranging and native blue wildebeest do occur in Namibia. The blue wildebeest below was free ranging and native to Namibia and was taken in the Caprivi area. The locals do have cattle throughout the area and I have no idea what the impact is on them from the wildebeest.

The hunter on the right is native to Georgia but is of Irish descent. The PH on the left...well it has been much debated and regions such as Namibia, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Scotland have come up with no clear consensus, and he is best classified as a nuisance species.

Stonecreek, I don't want to call the man a liar since I don't know the south of the country that well, I don't know if he meant that they use to be free roaming there but it's hard to believe for me that they are still free roaming.

This is just my opinion, maybe there is outfitters on the forum that own ranches there that can clarify this for us. Vaughn mentioned that they are free roaming in the North Eastern part of Namibia like the Caprivi, I'm not an expert on this area and willfind out tommorow. Vaughn and these guys all have concession areas and I don't know how the cattle industry up there work if they market there cattle like cattle ranchers do or if it is only for personal use. My propperty gets inspected every year by Veterinary services to make sure that I have a double fence.

I will get back on how exactly it works up there.

Roy

I may or may not remember correctly that he told me the blues were indigenous. However, he was very proud that much of his native game had been preserved by the efforts of his father and grandfather while neighboring farms had lost most or all of their native game animals.