Poachers on Safari...

A friend and I was discussing this the other day and I thought I'd ask the question here...

How many of you while on your safari ran into a bunch of Poachers on a Safari as well...

How did your PH handle the situation?

Thanks for sharing your experiences...

We found a poacher's camp in Cameroon and sent the anti poaching team back to stake it out. When the three poachers returned, the antis caught one and brought him back to camp. He was chained to a tree and the authorities were contacted. Someone came to arrest him the following day. While he was chained to the tree, there was lots of yelling and some tough love from the trackers and game scouts. I never thought it was going to escalate to serious physical violence, but I was not going to be a witness if it did. I minded my business and steered clear of the poacher. The PH said that he would be jailed and that the safari company would have to pay the costs of his being jailed.

We ran into some pochers in Chete in Zim. They had dogs and had set a very long +/-2mi snare line.

The game scout told us to shoot them to kill.

Buzz Charlton leaned over to me and wispered, "I don't know about you, but it isn't worth shooting a man over, eh?" I agreed with Buzz and we held our fire.

I've picked up snares and seen a couple of poachers camps here and there as well.

JPK

I've chased them on foot and in trucks; picked up scores of snares; found their fresh kills and watched as our own trackers and skinners delighted in the unexpected find and gleefully robbed the poachers of theirs; and been deeply saddened by those magnificent African creatures that never had a chance to escape from the biting, painful wire, accompanied by the lingering, thirst filled, slowly agonizing death before the ever present vultures picked the carcass clean.

My first safari in Zimbabwe 1997 the Game Scouts caught a couple of poachers with dogs. The Game Scouts killed the dogs. We were with the safari operator, who was also our PH. The PH along with the Game Scouts went into the shed where the poachers were held. I heard all sorts of screaming, moaning etc. When the safari operator came out, I asked him what was going on. He replied, "in the old days we simply shot them, but now we have to take them to jail in Geru where they will be promptly released. So we bash them a bit and send them on their way." I can tell you that it was a helleva lot of bashing.

In 1999 I returned to Zimbabwe to hunt at Chirisa. We were finding a lot of snares in this particular area of Chirisa. We finally saw the poachers (three of them) as they quickly dove behind a large rock in an attempt to hid from us. We approached the rock when the Landcruiser stopped, our PH fired one shot into the rock. The poachers came out with their hands up. We loaded them up and took them to the headquarters for the Chirisa Safari Area and turned them in to the authorities there. They were not bashed as the first ones but they received some pretty rough treatment. I'll say one thing, people in the U.S. don't have the faintest idea what police brutality is. All in all, the poachers were lucky to be alive.

On a safari last year in Tanzania we ran into or found a poachers camp every day. We even saw some that were occupied, honey gather's. We destroyed all camps that we found but I doubt it had any effect. The animals were very scared and almost impossible to approach. All the elephants we saw were running and screaming. As you might suspect it wasn't much of a safari, I never fired a shot. For this reason I won't go back to Tanzania until they get a handle on the poaching......Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
On a safari last year in Tanzania we ran into or found a poachers camp every day. We even saw some that were occupied, honey gather's. We destroyed all camps that we found but I doubt it had any effect. The animals were very scared and almost impossible to approach. All the elephants we saw were running and screaming. As you might suspect it wasn't much of a safari, I never fired a shot. For this reason I won't go back to Tanzania until they get a handle on the poaching......Tom

What block were you in and who were you with?

Brett

Thanks folks for sharing your experiences!

I was curious as I would think this would be a very possible occurence while on safari...My PH had shared several very interesting details when they have been caught on his property...

It can be very interesting how they handle things there...

On several occasions, we have found and removed lots of snairs.

On several occasions, we have seen poachers.
One time our PH fired a couple fo shots over their heads - they were several hundred yards away, and they really legged it when they heard the shots.

On some occasions we have seen them quire far away, and a call to the poaching patrols were made.

I have chased a few through the bush but they were too quick for me and i consider myself as quite a fast runner but these guys were like greese lighting. Even though they left their sandles. As some of you probable know the ground on the Save Conservancy is covered in thorns and all sorts.

Mike

Many years ago, when I was working in Parc St. Floris in northern Central African Republic, we came accross a Chadian camp, herders who had herded their cattle into the national park. Their camp was full of poached meat and fish as well. We destroyed the camp, collected the poached meat and set out to find the Chadians. We found two of them a couple of kilometers away with some of their cattle. We informed them that we had destroyed their camp. They became belligerant, so we shot one of the steers. We told them we would shoot one every day as long as they stayed in the park.

We were miles from anywhere and the possibility of arrest by any authorites was non-existent, so fortunately for us there were only two of them. They did move out however.

By the way, I worked in Meru National Park in Kenya a couple of years ago and the northern border of that national park has the same problem with Somali herders who, in their search for good grazing for their cattle, do the same thing.

In Zim lots of snares found, a couple of times poachers with dogs, sent the game scouts after the poachers. Plus I have had leopard baits stolen twice by poachers. They must enjoy aged meat.

BigB

The amount of poaching I saw varied by where I was hunting. In the Omay South Communal lands we found snares on a daily basis when hunting in Ward 12 which is along the North West border. Very few in the other 4 wards we hunted. At the Manuli camp, game scouts shot and killed a poacher from Gokwe Communal Lands. Another broke into one of the clients rounduvals and was confronted by an armed camp gaurd. The villian chose to jumop off the cliff in front of the camp and later a few bits of bones left by the hyeanas were found below the cliff.

On my first elephant hunt at Charisa in April of 2001 dog hunting poachers were extremely active. They apparently poach heavily during the rainey season when the safari staff can't cross the Sengwa due to high water. We came across 3 groups of dog poachers and killed 28 dogs. Couldn't catch any of the poachers as they are in extremely fit condition from running after their dogs. Also found cattle along the north east border that were killed by lions. One group of poachers had a scotch cart pulled by donkeys. They left on the road when we came along and beat feet into the bush. We killed all the dogs, turned the donkeys lose and destroyed the cart. In the cart were a female buffalo and a calf along with several spears. Not much sign of poaching at Matetsi or Chete.

465H&H

I have two friends who were actually involved in a fire fight with poachers. One of the PH's was wounded.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I worked in Meru National Park in Kenya

Did they have you dress up in animal costumes so tourists would think there were some animals left???



Brett

Chirisa Safari Area, Zimbabwe 2007, we were hunting with PH Terry Fenn. On the road we saw a group of poachers carrying meat stacked on their heads. Terry raced up with the truck and they took off running through the bush. Everyone jumped out of the truck and Game Scout Langton fired at the fleeing poachers.

Later in the hunt, a group of poachers and their dogs were encountered chasing a bushbuck. The poachers scattered and were not caught but one of their dogs was shot by Langton.

Where you find hungry impoverished people you'll find poaching whether it be for meat, wood, honey or gold. Anywhere I've hunted there has been some evidence of poaching with the exception of a couple of high fenced operations. Whether that poaching gets out of hand and substantially effects the hunting is the sole responsibility of the safari company. African game departments just do not have the resources to enforce anti poaching efforts so it is up to the safari operators to patrol their own concessions.

Mark

While hunting some private ground down near Plumbtree in 2000, we were finding snares on a daily basis, although I never did see a poacher..

Here is pig of a kudu that was poached in Chirisa.. I took the pic behind the Warden's office this past Feb when I was there ele hunting.

My best friend's father was a professional photographer for a hunting group in Tanzania a while back. they were in a hide and an armed poacher stepped into the clearing. The Game Scout quickly asked the hunter to shoot the poacher but he refused and the poacher never noticed them. It turned out that two safaris before a tracker and game scout was killed by a poacher who ambushed them.

Squeeze,

Slightly off topic but your post reminds me of an inquiry I got once...

email read something like this:

"What are the probabilities of running into poachers when hunting with you... If we do; would you call the relevant authorities, handle things yourself or expect me to step in?"

My answer was that it was that the probability of coming across poachers was low and in the unlikely event that we did my first responsibility would have been that of the safety of my client which implied that I would remove him from any potential danger or conflict immediately.

I got a reply back that "this was what he was hoping to hear and that he would contact me soon to book a hunt..." This happened something like 3 years ago... and I never heard from him again...

Got me thinking that this "client" might have been hoping to get the opportunity to shoot at humans... I certainly hope he was not! But if he were he was obviously reading the wrong website...

BigB: Me too. Had two fairly ripe zebra hindquarters stolen last year from the same bait area. Human tracks were found around the bait site.

We ran into some poachers once. Them fellers taste like corn.

I was in tanzania last year and the game scout caught 2 poachers. He was going to kill them and even fired at them but I asked him not to kill them. He said dont get involved in goverment buissiness. In the end he ended up beating them several times then the next day he took them over by a fishing tent city and tied them to a tree and said he would be back in 2 days to get them. He told us in 2 hrs they will be going. two days later we found the elephant they had killed. We ended up taking the tusks into Longito to the game department where the game scouts boss asked why we didnt kill the poachers. He then took us back to a room where they stored all the tusks ,guns and ect and said see what they do. I was still glad they didnt get shot on my safari.

Good question, Roland.

"Poachers"
The guys who are just trying to stay alive or keep their family alive by hunting on foot with primitive weapons and who have developed into great hunters/trackers, and who really have no understanding of game laws?

Or

The guys with rifles and trucks and spot-lights killing multiple game animals every night for sale as bush meat so they can have money for beer and cigs, and who fully realize their activities are illegal?

Lots of difference in "poachers" IMO.

Over many years I have participated in arresting poachers, collecting snares and traps, burning their camps and culling animals injured by snares in many sub-Saharan African countries.

With a little safari experience it is relatively easy to tell the difference between "subsistence" poachers and "commercial" meat hunters/poachers. The latter do great damage.

As to shooting Ele and Rhino poachers, well, I made my decision on that topic many years ago.

We found evidence of poachers on both of my hunts in the Kafue region in Zambia.

In 1994, we came upon a camp where warthog meat was hanging on crude drying racks, a small fire still was burning, and several jackets and miscellaneous items were hanging on branches. The PH and his men proceeded to burn everything while I sat in an open safari vehicle knowing only that there probably were men nearby with at least one rifle, and they couldn't be happy with what was happening to their camp and their possessions.

Two years later, the outfitter reopened an old road in the far corner of his concession when we drove there to look for a Chobe bushbuck. When we returned the next day, brush and logs had been dragged across the road and in the sand was written: "We see you, you don't see us. The Boys From Mumbwa."

Both years when driving through Kafue National Park, I noticed strange sets of parallel tracks running across nearly every "dambo." One set was about six inches wide, the other was about 12 inches wide, and only about a foot separated them. When I asked about them, I was told they were made by poachers walking alongside bicycles loaded with bush meat they had poached.

In Zimbabwe's Matetsi in 1983, the PH was constantly stopping to pick up wire snares but we never saw a snared animal or anyone who shouldn't have been there.

Bill Quimby

When hunting with Pierre van Tonder in MK1
(selous) in 2006 we encountered 4 young tribesmen who entered one side of a clearing as we entered the other. They immediately and with great haste departed as the gamescout fired over their heads with his 375.

Our professional hunter (Wickes Groenwald) was attacked by one of the cur dogs that accompanied the poachers. The dog grabbed his pants leg until Wickes tired of the action. You can imagine how that encounter ended!

The poachers ran out of two pairs of flip flops and threw down two crude spears. This wasn't a dangerous encounter but did prove interesting.

Adrian

Anyone stop to wonder why the game scouts most of whom were armed asked someone else to do the dirty work?

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
On a safari last year in Tanzania we ran into or found a poachers camp every day. We even saw some that were occupied, honey gather's. We destroyed all camps that we found but I doubt it had any effect. The animals were very scared and almost impossible to approach. All the elephants we saw were running and screaming. As you might suspect it wasn't much of a safari, I never fired a shot. For this reason I won't go back to Tanzania until they get a handle on the poaching......Tom

What block were you in and who were you with?

Brett

Brett, We were with Robin Hurt Safari's in the Mele Block

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
Anyone stop to wonder why the game scouts most of whom were armed asked someone else to do the dirty work?

They have a gun, but most of the time only one or two bullets, if any at all.

WHO REALLY IS A POACHER ? WHOSE LAND WAS IT AFTER ALL ? WHOSE GAME IS IT AND WHO ARE WE TO LABEL SOMEONE WHO FETCHES GAME FOR HIS FAMILY TO EAT PROTEIN/MEAT DENIED TO THEM BY BAD GOVERNMENTS.THE REALLY DANGEROUS POACHERS ARE THOSE SUPPORTED BY CORRUPT GOVT OFFICIALS WHO HAVE 'GUNS' IN THE BUSH IN THE FORM OF WELL ARMED POACHERS WRECKING HAVOC ON ELEPHANTS ; RHINO AND OTHER GAME WITH COMMERCIAL BLACK /ILLEGAL MARKET VALUE THEY HARDLY EVER GET CAUGHT AND NEVER GET SEEN, BECAUSE LIKE THE REAL CULPRITS OF "ABU GRAIB" PRISON ABUSE, THEY ARE PROTECTED.PROTECTED BY THE POWERS THAT BE AT THE TOP WHILE ONCE IN A WHILE THEY SACRIFICE A POOR HUNGRY 'SUBSISTENCE POACHER' CAUGHT WITH A FEW BUSH RATS AND AN ANTELOPE TO KEEP HIS FAMILY NOURISHED WITH PROTEIN......BAD GOVTS WILL ALWAYS CAUSE POOR RURAL PEOPLE TO SUBSIST BY POACHING.IT IS THE SAME BAD GOVERNMENTS OFFICIALS WHO ARM AND PROTECT THE REAL POACHERS AND ADVOCATE FOR ROUGH JUNGLE JUSTICE FOR THE SUBSISTENCE POACHER CAUGHT WITH A FEW ANTELOPE AND BUSH CANE RATS.

quote:

Originally posted by babaode:
WHO REALLY IS A POACHER ? WHOSE LAND WAS IT AFTER ALL ? WHOSE GAME IS IT AND WHO ARE WE TO LABEL SOMEONE WHO FETCHES GAME FOR HIS FAMILY TO EAT PROTEIN/MEAT DENIED TO THEM BY BAD GOVERNMENTS.THE REALLY DANGEROUS POACHERS ARE THOSE SUPPORTED BY CORRUPT GOVT OFFICIALS WHO HAVE 'GUNS' IN THE BUSH IN THE FORM OF WELL ARMED POACHERS WRECKING HAVOC ON ELEPHANTS ; RHINO AND OTHER GAME WITH COMMERCIAL BLACK
/ILLEGAL MARKET VALUE THEY HARDLY EVER GET CAUGHT AND NEVER GET SEEN, BECAUSE LIKE THE REAL CULPRITS OF "ABU GRAIB" PRISON ABUSE, THEY ARE PROTECTED.PROTECTED BY THE POWERS THAT BE AT THE TOP WHILE ONCE IN A WHILE THEY SACRIFICE A POOR HUNGRY 'SUBSISTENCE POACHER' CAUGHT WITH A FEW BUSH RATS AND AN ANTELOPE TO KEEP HIS FAMILY NOURISHED WITH PROTEIN......BAD GOVTS WILL ALWAYS CAUSE POOR RURAL PEOPLE TO SUBSIST BY POACHING.IT IS THE SAME BAD GOVERNMENTS OFFICIALS WHO ARM AND PROTECT THE REAL POACHERS AND ADVOCATE FOR ROUGH JUNGLE JUSTICE FOR THE SUBSISTENCE POACHER CAUGHT WITH A FEW ANTELOPE AND BUSH CANE RATS.

Please quit shouting(turn off the caps)and post this in the political forum.

Now back on subject, we surprised some poachers just outside the Selous in the Gonabisi area. I never saw them but the Game Scout did. They set the grass on fire and ran. The PH drove after them while the Game Scout looked for them from the top of the cruiser. He wanted me to shoot if we caught up with them.

The good news is we never caught up to them. My thoughts were Bull Sh--. No way was I going to get involved with this. The PH was all for catching them but was content to let the Game Scout take care of the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
Anyone stop to wonder why the game scouts most of whom were armed asked someone else to do the dirty work?

They have a gun, but most of the time only one or two bullets, if any at all.

My point is two fold. First, If you are going to take a mans life, you had better have a damn good reason. Second the scouts have some bulletts. How many doe it take to turn the top of a poachers head into the bright red mist evryone recognizes? I hate commecial poachers but have empathy for those who are survival poaching. The two are totally different scenarios. I would have to think hard about the subsistance poachers and handle them. I might be inclined to want to shoot the commercial poacher. Either way is is going to land a whole lot of burecratic bullshit. I dont relish being charged for murder in a foreign country. I think the game scouts would prefer to avoid the crap of what comes from the legsl system sfter such an incidint. Then who and how much do you bribe?

just returned from my 10th trip to Africa, I have seen snares on almost every animal you can think of. The leopard I shot even had a wire snare mark on its neck. In my mind a poacher is a poacher. The animal is just as dead and gone. I don't think I have to educate people on this forum about the value of a good safari company brings to an area
JOBS!!! Would I shoot one. NO. Do they belong in Jail, Hell yes!

+1

you should shoot them first and then teach them that a low meat diet is good for health
yes

Certain options become much more enticing and even necessary as the belly stays empty.

Who here has not learned to set a snare, and would do so to feed himself or his family if that was the easiest/only way to supply protein?

How much does killing a survivalist poacher to "save" an animal for hunting purposes differ from the "Save the Whales, Abort the Babies" mentality of the Greenies most of us despise? Or is it even worse?

It's not uncommon for game scouts etc to tell the PH and/or client to shoot poachers but I'd strongly advise against it. African prisons are very unpleasant places and not to be recommended.

If a game scout wants someone shot, Id recommend you tell him to do it himself.

If someone is dumb enough to consider or even condone such an act, it's probably not the best of ideas to say so on a public forum.

Back in '92, I was hunting the Chirisa Safari Area in Zim, for buffalo. While taking a tea break, my PH recognised our game scout from an incident earlier in the year and so my PH told me the story. The story was that, while hunting with another client in Chirisa, the game scouts had ambushed a poaching gang and there had been a shoot-out. My PH and his client, over the next couple of days, kept coming across the tracks of a man wandering through the bush and, they surmissed, that he had been wounded in the shootout. My PH reported this to the game scouts and that was the last he had heard of it.

So, while we were taking tea, my PH then asked the game scout if he remembered the incident and whether they found the guy, the game scout smiled broadly and said "yes, we found him."

My PH then asked him what had happened and the game scout's smile got bigger and he replied "we shot him to pieces!"


On another occasion we were hunting a private concession near Gwanda, in Zim, and we encountered large numbers of snares, so we starting pulling them down and collecting them. While we were doing this, my PH and his scouts suddenly went to ground and I did the same but, at first, had no idea why. My PH then motioned to me to stay quiet and stay put, and as he and the game scouts positioned themselves, I realised that they had spotted the poachers who were coming through the bush, checking their snares as they went. My PH was going to try and nab the poachers but, unfortunately, they spotted us before we could spring our ambush. When he realised that we had been spotted, my PH leapt to his feet and yelled out, in chilapalapa, "stop or we shoot". The two poachers spun on their heels and took off, my PH fired his .375 in the air and we all took off after them. I have always been a fast sprinter, and I was a lot fitter in those days, but those two poachers left us for dead. The sound of a .375 wizzing over their heads must have give them a huge burst of adrenelin and they were gone! In addition, they ran straight through the thornbushes, while we tried to run around them, and there were pieces of poachers clothing and blood on many a thorn.

Hey folks,

Thanks a bunch for contributing to this thread! I haven't checked it out in a few days and I've been very interested and fascinated by all that's been shared by you all!!!!!

I have been enlightened to say the least!

Aloha!

Ro