I've got a serious case of scope itch, and the Swaro Z6 1-6x24 EE is in my crosshair.

Now, the illuminated reticle sounds absolutely GRRRREAT on the ads... but this is the point:

- The only reason I am considering the illuminated reticle is that time and again, I do find myself trotting around the bush after dusk or at night, in lion country.

Would the illuminated reticle make the difference in case of need in these circumstances?

I never used one, and won't have a chance to do so anytime soon.

So, I put the question to those who know!

Thanks...

The illuminated reticle is worthless IMO. It is actually shining light INTO your eye--not onto the target. Hence your pupil constricts and your night vision acuity decreases. Although there might be circumstances where it helps a little, it is worse than worthless when shapes can just be made out in the dark.

I agree with Steve. I'd rather have a good flashlight I can point and still handle my rifle.

I have used one, an S&B Flashdot, on leopard in very low light, and found it to be well worth the money.

However, as I'm sure you know, you need to be able to see your target clearly, or you shouldn't be shooting at all, illuminated reticle or not. You need a flashlight for true darkness conditions.

My leopard was silhouetted black against a clear but darkening sky, and the illuminated reticle, with its central red dot, was easy to use. I just put the dot on his shoulder, and pressed the trigger. One shot and one dead leopard.

For lion at night, in thick bush, a better strategy would be to stay in the truck, or better yet, indoors!

I don't personally use a scope of any kind, but those clients of mine who have used them seem to love them....... BUT, you won't believe how many hunters either leave them on or they get knocked on and the battery goes flat. If you do buy one, I'd recommend you have a few spare batteries somewhere nearby. Some of the scopes have storage room for spare batteries either in the adjuster caps or in the battery cover.

I'm with mrlexma, but only as a specialized tool for leopard hunting. Virtually every PH I've spoken with really likes the concept for their clients. Regarding pupil condtriction, taht is true IF you have the rheostat turned up. I've done quite a bit of experimenting with it in preparation for a cat hunt and it works. I just use the very low power setting and it's well worth it. jorge

i have several and love em. i can't tell you how many things i've shot when its right next to dark and the little red dot helped lke hell. couple things - i don't know what swaro's got but make sure its just a small red dot, not the whole reticule, and make sure that the power setting can be turned way down so it doesn't ruin you night vision. as for use - try to imagine yourself black bear hunting, its the last daylight and the big old bear is shiloutted against a dark spruce forest. Now find that target with a black crosswire, or would you rather have a little 1/2-1 minute red dot. Now imagine a leopard, or whatever

I have nevr been to africa, so i cannot tell you how much an illuminated reticle will help when trudging through lion terrritory. I have, however, used illuminated reticle scopes shooting deer on nuisance permits back home and coyotes. These things are great when set at the low power setting in complete darkness but i will suggest an illuminated dot instead. About the only time you ever need to turn that thing to the near full power position is at dawn or dusk.

Hope this helped,
Geoff

OOORAH!!!

Jorge

I thought the red light wavelength was not supposed to impact your night vision?

In the military, they gave us red filters for our flashlights for this very reason.

I have a german 4 with a red dot on a leupold 3.5 to 10 X 30mm tube and 50mm bell....It turned out to be superb for aiming...The dot whether lit up or in it back state has to be the best config I have ever shot... In low light the red dot is just like a a pointer...
It has a 360 degree switch with 11 brightness settings... I would recommend one and also even buy another if I need another scope...

Mike

The red-dots sound reasonable for leopard hunting. The lion at night problem is still likely a flashlight deal IMO.

Yes, the illuminated reticle would give you an advantage.

quote:

and the battery goes flat.

That is why I use the Trijicon Accupoints - no batteries, no on/off switch - just illumination that is automatically adjusted to the ambient light levels (so it doesn't affect your vision) and the illumination is always there - 24/7!

I haven't used them in Africa, yet, but I have a 1.25-4x24 Accupoint being fitted up to a Merkel 9.3x74R double rifle (even as I write this) and I do plan on taking it to Africa.

I also use a Accupoint 1.25-4x24 on my regular deer rifle (a customised Savage 99 in .358Win) and it is an amazing outfit to hunt with, see picture:

Red deer, Savage 99 and Trijicon Accupoint

The illuminated crosshair cannot be seen in the daytime, unless set to high power. At night the dimmer settings are plenty bright and do not constrict the pupil. Great aide in nightime shooting

quote:

Jorge

I thought the red light wavelength was not supposed to impact your night vision?

Jim: you are correct, sort of. For example in airplanes as most of you know, cockpit instrumentation is bathed in red lights. It does minimize the issue, but oftern-times on real dark night with no horizon and during in-flight refueling, we found it better to turn the lights down almost to nothing in the cockpitand concnetrate on the formation (green) and position lights of the other aricraft.
With the scope, if it's real dark and you have the rheostat turned all the way up, the red dot tends to "wash out" the image. jorge

jorge is right on the money concerning being careful with your rheostat!

The best illuminated reticle scopes, like the Schmidt & Bender Flashdot, have many levels of adjustable illumination (in the case of the S&B FD, eleven levels).

The lower the light, the lower one should adjust the illumination level.

It's also best, as butchloc mentioned above, to get the kind of reticle where only a pinpoint of red light is illuminated at the center of the crosshairs. That's what I have in mine, and in near darkness, my S&B does not noticeably impair my night vision when set on its lowest level.

Also, the S&B has a chip in it that automatically shuts off the illumination if it is accidentally left on for too long a period of time (I think it's a few hours or so), and the scope also has a niche in the illumination turret for storage of a spare battery.

Bottom line, IMHO, is don't scrimp when buying an illuminated reticle scope (or any scope, for that matter). In these as in most things, you definitely get what you pay for.

From what has been said and shared above, it appears that:

- Those who have used IRs find them definitely useful
- It should be a Dot, not a fully illuminated reticle (on Swaro it is a dot)
- Should have a spare battery holder (check one for Swaro)
- Should have auto shut-off (check Swaro)
- Should be a quality scope (check Swaro... is it?)

So I'll look for a good deal on a Z6i... May have to wait a while, though, since they are just hitting the shelves.

Thanks all!

S%B has its Night &Day reticle with an red and green light in, as you can change from the conditions.

But the next scope will be one with illum, in so i am covered for various use.

Phillip:
Talk to Doug at Camera World. He has some Shot Show demos with full warranties at good prices. He has ads in the classified section under gr8fuldoug. I bought 3 scopes from him recently and all are perfect with free shipping.

I don't particularly like the illuminated recticles I've looked through. I would recommend that you concentrate on getting a quality scope with a large tube and objective (although the large tube is more important) such as the Zeiss Conquest (or Diavari) 3-12x56mm with 30mm tube. Also, Schmidt & Bender makes one with a 34mm tube, but I believe it is roughly 2-3 times as much as the Zeiss. I have the Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56mm and I love it. I can see just fine through it on a full moon night.

Eland Slayer,

Not to beat this horse any further, but I know from first hand experience that at dusk, just as the sun is setting or has set, there is no comparison between even the brightest non-illuminated reticle scope and one with an illuminated reticle.

I have been in a leopard blind when using a rifle mounted with an S&B 2.5-10x56mm Zenith scope with the S&B No. 7 non-illuminated reticle (a duplex without the thick wire on top).

That evening at dusk, a small tom took the bait. When I put the scope on him, just for practice, I was unhappy to find that the central, finer crosshairs were invisible and the outer crosshairs were extremely difficult to see. Not good.

That's when I decided that, for leopard hunting, I would henceforth use a rifle with an illuminated reticle scope on top. I was very happy to learn that lesson and never regretted the switch. There really is nothing better for leopard.

Eland slayer,
How many leopards have you hunted? What scope did you use on your hunt?

30mm tubes have NOTHING to do with light transmission capabilities. NOTHING. Illuminated reticles are a good option for cats. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by BwanaBob:

quote:

and the battery goes flat.

That is why I use the Trijicon Accupoints - no batteries, no on/off switch - just illumination that is automatically adjusted to the ambient light levels (so it doesn't affect your vision) and the illumination is always there - 24/7!

I haven't used them in Africa, yet, but I have a 1.25-4x24 Accupoint being fitted up to a Merkel 9.3x74R double rifle (even as I write this) and I do plan on taking it to Africa.

I also use a Accupoint 1.25-4x24 on my regular deer rifle (a customised Savage 99 in .358Win) and it is an amazing outfit to hunt with, see picture:

Red deer, Savage 99 and Trijicon Accupoint

The tridium lit recticles that Trijicon produces are excellent. Personal experience with them here where we can legally hunt 1 full hour after sunset has convinced me.

What's not to like? If the situation calls for it turn it off. It's not nightvision. The Leupold I had and the Burris I have can be set so low as to work WITH night goggles. As was said they are usually meant to be used in low light but can be used in brighter light. I've done drills with them cranked up in broad daylight and they are fast. Faster than most anything.

Put me down as someone who also thinks a red dot is a great feature to have on a scope at night, and an illuminated recticule is a pretty much worthless feature to have on a scope at night.

If it is well and truly too dark to see the recticule, which is when you need this feature, even at the lowest setting an illuminated recticule will wash out the sight picture.

Another thing is if you use a flashlight, make sure the switch of the flashlight is easily operable. Push buttons on the endcaps and ones that you have to twist somehow to turn on are too awkward IMHO. The funny part is you don't realize that until you're in a situation where you need 3 hands and then you realize you're kinda screwed.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
If it is well and truly too dark to see the recticule, which is when you need this feature, even at the lowest setting an illuminated recticule will wash out the sight picture.

That is simply not the case with the best modern illuminated reticle scopes like the S&B. I know it from direct personal experience.

Word is the Zeiss conquest is a Meopta. Maybe that accounts for the price differential with the S&B.