This comment appeared on another topic thread: "Reading the hunting reports I notice that it is common to shoot buffalo numerous times before they fall.I find this hard to accept.They must be useing improper bullets,shooting from shot-out barrels,or from barrels that have not been properly cleaned.Or they must be shooting them in the wrong place."

I thought it might be interesting to hear from those of you with significant experience with cape buffalo regarding the ease/or difficulty of dropping M'bogo.

A. If he's standing, he's still alive.
B. If he's still alive, you need to humanely take him out by shooting him again....this applies to any animal.
C. If the Cape Buffalo is alive, and he see's your sorry arse waiting...and not shooting him, he will possibly come and get you....the pain is likely to be intense.

Now I've only taken one buff, but, it had a snare wound, a nasty disposition, and took 3 VERY well placed cup points from my 470 before he started to fall...and got a 4th as he fell.

If that gent finds it hard to accept, he has either never hunted them, never talked to anyone who has hunted them, or is full of $hit.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI

quote:

shooting from shot-out barrels,or from barrels that have not been properly cleaned

Sounds like this fella has never left the bench rest to me.

Kyler

buffalo #1 - One shot through the heart and leg from .585 nyati. 750 grain solid at 2250s. Ran 25 yards and dropped. Fired an insurance shot.

buffalo #2 - 4 shots from .500 NE. First was a bit far back bit hit both lung and liver. Second was in the neck but did not hit the spine. Third and fourth were rear-end shots that stopped in the chest.

buffalo #3 - 2 shots from .500 NE. First shot through the heart broadside. Second shot through the withers as he faced downhill toward me.

buffalo #4 - 1 shot from .500 NE through the snout and head and into the neck verebrae.

However, add some adrenaline before the first vital shot and the buff will tend to stay on his feet longer.

Well, it just don't happen that way every time!

I surely haven't killed or seen killed as many as some folks, but been there for enough to wonder how they could continue to function after being clobbered by a true DG round (and hit where it hurts).

For instance, those of you who have seen the video I had done from a Selous hunt saw me shoot a buff 5 times and he was still alive when approached. Only one of those five shots didn't hit heart/lungs and it was a rear-on shot that hit the hip and got the liver. BTW, the first shot broke the far shoulder after passing through both lungs.

African animals do seem different. Maybe it is just that you might kill 10 in a week and therefore you have more experiences to gather "tough" stories about, but, don't count on killing a buffalo with one shot unless you get the brain/C-spine.

JMHO

The quoted poster from Montreal has some real "dandies" (posts, not buffalo)

I have seen many cape buffalo being shot. A few have succumbed after 1 or 2 shots, most took 3,4 or 5 and I have seen some still standing after a dozen shots. A cape buffalo is the toughest animal on Earth. A charging elephant will most often be turned or stopped if hit in the head with a heavy calibre, even if the brain is missed. Not so a cape buffalo - once his adrenalin is up and he is coming, nothing will stop him but a brain shot. All hunters should treat this animal with the utmost respect. Good advice Garby - if he is still standing, do not stop firing.


[URL= ][IMG]

Well Russell, you know the story on my buffalo.

I have shot three buffalo. Buffalo Two and Three both were one shot kills, shot them and one ran off and was found within forty yards dead and the other dropped on the spot. Just a heads up, but these buffalo were shot with the same rifle, same shooter, same ammo, same everything, as Buffalo One discussed below.

Buffalo One took eight shots from my rifle (a .416 Rigby) and several from the PH's rifle (a .458 Win Mag) to bring down. First shot was a frontal shot square in the chest, but once the bastard got his adrenalin pumping, he was virtually impossible to bring down. Buffalo Two was a similar frontal shot too, but one shot killed him.

My conclusion: If a cape buffalo does not fall to the first shot, and they get their adrenalin up, they can absorb an astonishing level of punishment and keep right on going.

My further conclusion: The person being quoted is either naive, an idiot or just trying to stir up some stuff. My guess would be the latter.

Mike

Go get your hands on a copy of the DVD Death by Double Rifle and pay close attention to the bullalo in the sequence that soaks up 12 .470s at under 25 yards, including 3 head shots.

I hunted my first Buff 27 years ago and like David, have seen a large amount of them taken and taken a fair few myself over the years....... in all that time, I can think of very few indeed that have fallen over at the first shot..... and only one that was aware of us before the shot and still fell over at that first shot.

I'd also agree with David that pretty much any other animal can be turned from a charge but I've never yet seen a Buff that'll turn from one. From my personal experience, once they come for you, it's either you stop them with a bullet or they're gonna nail you.......

The only one I've shot took a 500 gr. .458 Lott as he was quartering toward at the V between the neck and shoulder. He went about 80 yards and we heard the death bellow in the think jess. No additional shots were necessary. However, after we walked over to him, the other bulls with him came back for us and got within about 15 yards through the jess before they stopped there and snorted at us. Both Kirk Mason and I had our rifles up. Kirk said, "if something sticks it's nose out of that bush, hammer it!" Fortunately, they turned around. The game scout with us nearly soiled himself. I don't think I was smart enough to be that concerned; but looking back on it, it was probably a close call.

By the way, the Hornady Interbond that I used had come apart. Did the job (obviously), but all the trackers could find were scraps of metal in the far side hide.

Great story Bwanna. It also interesting to learn that you had an experience similar to mine with Interbonds.

Cape Buffalo are my game, and I've very few, 3 in fact one shot kills on buffalo, one was hit in the spine with the first shot,dropping him in his tracks, still an insurance shot was applied, after he was down for the count. two and three were Heart/lung shots that killed them withing 35 yds after the shot. No other shots were fired because they got into the weeds before a second shot could be fired. all three of these one shot kills were on Buffalo that were perfectly at ease when shot.

When a shot is just a little off center, or if the buff has been harrassed, buy jumping them three or four times before getting a shot, or the herd has been excited by harrassing lions , and their adrenaline is already up, you can have a fine time dumping empties out of you rifle, and filling the holes with fresh cartridges, before he goes down for the count.

All others have taken, at least, three shots, and some in the six, or seven to "GIT-ER DONE!

[QUOTE]BY Shakari

I'd also agree with David that pretty much any other animal can be turned from a charge but I've never yet seen a Buff that'll turn from one. From my personal experience, once they come for you, it's either you stop them with a bullet or they're gonna nail you......./QUOTE]

Here, I agree with Shakari, and David, I'll just paraphrase PHC,as it is the same as my opinion on the subject of cape Buffalo:

"Once he puts together a concentrated charge, your options have been wounderfully simplified, either you kill him, or he will kill you!"....PHC

The so called hunter quoted in the first post here has to be SHOOTAWAY!

Gentlemen,

I am probably going to get a bit of flack for saying this, but, cape buffalo are no harder to kill than other animals.

If you hit him in the right place, 99% of the time he will run a few yards and drop dead.

The 1% of the time - just like other animals - he will keep going and going. And one wonders how he can stay on his feet for so long.

I have seen this happen to other animals, sable and impala for instance.

I have absolutely no explanation for this at all. But I have seen it happen myself.

I would guess, as a conservative estimate, that about 80% of the buffalo I have shot would have died with the first shot if left alone for a few minutes.

But, in most cases, I normally put another shot into them as they are on the ground.

On a number of occasions, if the buffalo is close, and the opportunity for a head or neck shot is available, I prefer to take it. And put anothe shot into his chest after he drops.

We have never had a charge, despite having shot well over a 100 buffalo.

The PH I hunt with has been hunting for over 40 years. He had only had one buffalo charge during that time.

By an old cow they never saw until they almost got on top of it. He dropped it a few yards from him.

If you are responding based on a comment by "shootaway" the better approach would be to just ignore him. His posts make him appear to be either an elementary school student or someone who posts under the influence. I have never seen anyone else post so much ignorant, insulting BS about so many people, places, and things.

NB: The sequence from Death By Double Rifle mentioned abover is a classic illustration of how tough these animals can be and how fast things can devleop.

I shot only one buff in my life and that was with a 375 H&H, using factory loaded 300 gr. solids. (Federal) At about 35 yards he was hit on the point of the shoulder as he turned towards me. He staggered down a small slope and across a rainy season (end) waterhole. He collapsed on the other side about 100 feet or so from where I first hit him. A second "insurance" shot was fired at about 75 feet. (The PH told me later that the butchery showed him that the bullet actually hit only the top of the heart but did take out about a 1" piece. The buff laid his head down forward,still in a sitting position). We walked up, rifles at port - and at about 15 feet away (approaching from behind) he actually started to get up and I saw sand under his belly. I put a 3rd shot in at the base of the neck and that ended the festivities. (In my trophy picture I had to hold a horn to make the head stand up right. Fact) The 375 did its job -but I always have said to anyone who would listen that next time around, I want something bigger - like a bazooka! I read somewheres that the Cape buffalo is the hardest animal in Africa to put down. It doesn't surprise me. I knew very well that I had been very lucky. If the first shot had been a shade off, I might very well have become part of the African turf. I never lost respect for nyati, believe me! As one poster has noted, only those who never saw him in the flesh would be disrespectful of him.

an interesting observation is that if you shoot a buff and it didnt see or hear you and was simply peacefully grazing , walking etc , and after the shot it is not panicked too much , it will indeed run off and die , as hunters we are often quickly reloading , running and creating all kinds of havoc that in turn "pumps up" the adrenaline in the animal and they can go and go ...

i agree with saeed , one well placed shot, given time will always work , however one is never quite sure about that first shot ...so a second normally follows .

the only shot where a buff will drop straight down will be a shot that touches the spine or brain , often a buff that has been shot too high , but the bullett touches the spine will drop , flop around a little and then get up and head for the hills never to be seen again ...

all in all they are tremendously tough and a dying bull will get a spurt of adrenaline when it sees you and often get to its feet to try and get you ...i guess thats what keeps everyone wanting more ...its the dead ones that kill you !!!

i have seen buff standing there taking several shots to the point that one wonders if one is missing altogether , only to find taht all shots were on the money.

"He may die easily with one well placed shot. But wound him and the next fourteen shots from a .470 are likely to serve as only a minor irritant". Robert Ruark

I agree with Saeed's comments. I shot a buffalo in 2005, direct on and right through the heart with the .375 using a TBBC. He immediately kicked out his back legs and ran into the heavy jesse. We heard him death bellow, but quickly approached him nevertheless, with the PH carrying his .500 Nitro Express and me exchanging the .375 for my .470 Nitro Express Double Rifle. I don't think that we waited long enough, and had we done so, I think he would have expired on his own accord. However, our approaching him quickly was necessary as it was getting dark very soon. Upon finding him he stood up and charged. He then took a .500 Nitro Express round from the PH, as well as 5 separate .470 Nitro Express rounds from my double rifle before he was dead. Had it not been close to dusk we would have waited him out first. The other thing that was problematic was the fact that he was with another old dagga bull and we couldn't locate him after the shot and in the approaching darkness.

Saeed

I have seen a number of buffalo double-lunged and run more than a few yards, without dropping dead and apparently having no intention of doing so. Of course, they will die, but they do not always succumb in textbook time. Yes, it is important to give the animal time to die, but I have seen lunged buff still standing after extraordinary periods of time.
Yes, 80% of your buffalo would have died from the first well-placed shot, but what about the other 20%? Knock it down to 1% for arguments sake. If 1% of all buffalo lunged with the first shot in Africa each year just don't feel like dying, that represents a lot of hunting parties in a lot of trouble. And that is not to suggest I agree with your 99%/1% stat. I don't, with regard to many species, not just buffalo. I do agree that with adrenaline pumping there are a number of species as resilient as buffalo - wildebeeste and eland can be extremely tough. Somehow, we don't seem to be as concerned with the toughness of wildebeeste or impala!
As hunters, both you and your PH have been fortunate. I am sure it has much to do with getting things 100% right, but, as we all know, things don't always go according to plan out there. Others will not be as fortunate. It is not just to do with bullet placement: hunters face unprovoked attacks every year for various reasons, and hunters are charged every year by 'wounded' buffalo, whether hit well with the first bullet or not. Hence the saying 'It was dead, just didn't realize it'. Of course, a well shot buffalo is far less likely to get lively than a poorly shot one, but it does happen occassionally. Quite a number of Zimbabwean hunting parties were charged last year for various reasons and, as it is my job to find out, I looked into it a little. My research yielded a wide range of reasons for why particular animals charged, and included a couple of buffalo that had been well shot with the first bullet. At least lunged. Most of the PH's concerned were highly experienced individuals, who have been hunting big game professionally for 20 years plus.
I am certainly nowhere close to as qualified as your PH and I know I never will be. I hope this correspondence does not imply that I think I am. I am not even a PH. But I have been involved in the hunting industry for 15 years, and have accompanied a fair number of big game hunts in that time, with many different PH's and clients. For the past 5 years, I have been working as an in-field hunting journalist with two of Zimbabwe's most well known big game operators. As can be imagined, I too have witnessed many different scenarios, and they haven't all been clear cut.
It is not my intention to appear as if I doubt your buffalo hunting record, I just think you have been fortunate. I'm sure that this is because of the rapport you must have build up with your PH over the years, and I'm sure many envy this. When hunting dangerous game, sticking with a PH you know and click with has to be a very good idea.
The charging cow in the above posting was double lunged. Granted, we probably didn't give her enough time, but it seemed such a dead cert!

Thank you for considering my viewpoint

Respectfully
Dave

Hello Ivan, how are you?

[URL= ]SHOT PLACEMENT[/URL] I bet my life on this shot.The white square behind the shoulder and up high.This shot is the only one that gave me one shot kills(aside from a head shot)on caribou.I believe that a quality 500grain bullet travelling at around 2150fps and shot from a well kept rifle,within 75yds,will drop a buff in its tracks.

Your photo does not show. Unless you spine him a buff won't go down and stay down from a thorax shot.

Buffalo aren't supernatural but they aren't caribou. Caribou, whith which I have no experience, are supposedly very soft animals as well. Cape buffalo are definitely not soft.

JPK

I've killed several 'bou with one shot from my .223 and 50 gr spire points. All either brained or lunged. A 'bou takes the hit trots off a couple dozen yards, if at all, and lies down to die. Sometimes they just stand until they die.
Somehow I don't think a buffalo with a lung shot is going to do that as easily!

One person's thoughts on shot placement on cape buffalo.
http://www.safaribwana.com/MEMBERS/buffalo%20shot%20placement.htm

Moose or caribou are not that fragile at 300yds with a soft 130 grain bullet out of a 270 Win.You got to shoot them in the right place.I believe the above shot is high enough to cause spinal shock and at the same time damage to the vitals.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I bet my life on this shot.

I believe that a quality 500grain bullet travelling at around 2150fps and shot from a well kept rifle,within 75yds,will drop a buff in its tracks.

Shootaway,

Sadly, you'd be betting other's lives on this shot as well.

Look, buffalo ain't caribou...and what works for one isn't necessarily the answer for the other.

Save yourself further embarrassment and pick up a copy of Kevin "Doctari" Robertson's book "The Perfect Shot". Robertson (as well as being a hunter) is a veterinarian. Knows a bit about anatomy, conformation, physiology...that kind of stuff (at least about buff; probably a poor reference for caribou, I don't know).

See where your "magic" white square places your slug on a very non-caribou buff. As your reported shooting ability allows you to shoot fleas in the keester at 250 paces, I'm sure you centered your imaginary square. In doing so you've undershot the spine, maybe clipped the scapula, maybe caught the top edge of the lungs. Your ego just likely cost you a trophy fee and put the rest of your team on the track of a poorly hit animal. Congratulations, Mr.Solo! Just the performance we'd expect from a shooting ballerina. Well and truly done!

Tell you what...read Terrance Cacek's "Solo Safari". Then when you're old enough you can make a trip to Africa all by yourself and test these damfool theories without putting anyone else at risk. I promise you faithfully, those trackers ain't being paid enough to hunt "your way".

End of transmission...

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

If you hit him in the right place, 99% of the time he will run a few yards and drop dead.

.

Indeed. I think that is my direct quote of some time ago!

Buff that take a half of box of shells were not hit in "the right place" to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

If you hit him in the right place, 99% of the time he will run a few yards and drop dead.

.


Indeed. I think that is my direct quote of some time ago!

Buff that take a half of box of shells were not hit in "the right place" to begin with.

Can't agree with these comments I'm afraid, but that's my opinion and I'm certainly no guru. Hopefully not half a box of shells, but many buffalo that are hit in the right place take a few more to finish off. I reckon the average is about 3 or 4.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
[URL= ]SHOT PLACEMENT[/URL] I bet my life on this shot.The white square behind the shoulder and up high.This shot is the only one that gave me one shot kills(aside from a head shot)on caribou.I believe that a quality 500grain bullet travelling at around 2150fps and shot from a well kept rifle,within 75yds,will drop a buff in its tracks.

A PH by the name of Rodger Whittall once told me that a shot for this particular spot is an easy way of loosing your animal.
ozhunter

218 bee,you don't have to actually hit the spine to send them down.The bullet shock covers a larger area than the diameter of the bullet.A big shock near the spine as to break ribs very close to the spine will drop them dead or very close to dead.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
[URL= ]SHOT PLACEMENT[/URL] I bet my life on this shot.The white square behind the shoulder and up high.This shot is the only one that gave me one shot kills(aside from a head shot)on caribou.I believe that a quality 500grain bullet travelling at around 2150fps and shot from a well kept rifle,within 75yds,will drop a buff in its tracks.

I do not think I would bet my life on any buff shot, especially one that seems a bit high. I have shot one buff and been in on two others. Each time, we were told to aim at the heart just behind the shoulder 1/3 of the way up from the belly. Two were one shot kills, the last one was a frontal shot that required a couple more shots.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Buff that take a half of box of shells were not hit in "the right place" to begin with.

Well that is an insightful and thought stimulating comment -- no offense intended. And I guess that buffalo that are not dead are in fact alive until they are dead too. Nothing like stating the obvious. And I guess the same could not be said (hitting them in the "right spot") of any animal, mouse to elephant?

Comment just sort of seems to ignore the point of the whole thread, buffalo are tough to kill. And I do not buy the line that buffalo are no tougher than any other animal to kill with the "right shot" since that statement could apply to any animal. As for me, I chose to believe that a buffalo is in fact tougher to kill than a gopher.

In my thread 'Back in the Thick of it' can be seen a sequence of a hunter shooting a buffalo bull. The hunter in question is a brilliant rifle shot - I have seen him shoot 6 buffalo and never err even slightly with the first shot. The bull he took in the photo sequence was double lunged very solidly with a .416, and we gave it plenty of time to die as we sat and smoked cigarettes and shot the breeze a bit. Lo and behold, when we followed up we found him standing and he needed a couple more to put him down. Just one example. I have many.

I agree that the first well placed shot - and by that I mean through the top of the heart with a good soft point in a suitable caliber (the bigger the better) - will do the job on its own.

In my limited experience, but experience nonetheless, the buff will run off 50 yards or so, fall down and die. The key is not to rush in after him. Let your trackers smoke a few of those newspaper wrapped hand mades they ruin their lungs with and allow yourself time to take a few belts from the water bottle. Give the buff a good ten minutes or so to expire.

But by the same token, if you can safely get additional shots into him as he's running away, then by all means do it. After all, what hunter can be 100% sure of where his first shot has struck the buff 100% of the time? Not me.

And unless your buff is deader than a fur coat when you walk up on him, put an insurance round through his spine.

And even if he is well and truly dead when you walk up, it's never a bad idea to kill him again.

Having said all of that, I have killed a buff with one shot through the top of the heart - no follow ups and no finishers - as he was facing me head on across a low grassy field from 30 yards away and eyeballing me with that heads up, down the nose look that Ruark described so well.

When the bullet struck him, he wheeled and ran 50 yards into the elephant grass, where he fell down and died, as per the script.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
218 bee,you don't have to actually hit the spine to send them down.The bullet shock covers a larger area than the diameter of the bullet.A big shock near the spine as to break ribs very close to the spine will drop them dead or very close to dead.

Shootaway,

OK, so your keen eye and steely nerves are actually intentionally shooting below the spine and counting on a rib hit to deliver sufficient damage to drop the animal? And of course your scope allows you to "see" the rib in question allowing your uncanny riflery to deliver the blow in the proper place...

Frankly, I'm surprised that animals (buff as well as caribou) don't simply surrender to you when you step into the woods. Oh wait...they don't read the internet!

So, does a shooting ballerina wear one's culling belt over or under their tutu?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. As for me, I chose to believe that a buffalo is in fact tougher to kill than a gopher.

Wait! Wait! Let me write that down!

In my oppinion, if a buffalo takes a bullet to the heart from a lighter load or cheap bullet it may run 50 or so yds and and then die.I hope the energy he gives up doing his final 50yd dash is not directed at you.This might be a reason as to why Saeed is rigged-up to shoot them from afar!

over 35 buffalo taken,maybe 6 were one shot kills. Its not how big a hole you put in them,its where you put the hole.....

WHY...are we feeding the trolls. That shot's too high. jorge

That shot placement suggestion is comeing from someone who thinks when he does things and not from someone who does things the way others tell him to.