quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by DPhillips:

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
DPhillips,
I do not understand your post. How do you lock a private message?

I don't know how you do that, but the PM sent to YD from Mark was locked by Mark so that YD couldn't reply. I see no recourse from YD, no matter what Saeed says, except to respond through this thread.

Like I said, it's chickensh__ to not allow a person to respond to your PM and don't blame YD at all in posting it.

DPhillips,

If a sender can really "lock" a PM so that the recipient cannot respond, then why wouldn't a recipient interested in responding just start a new PM to the originator?

JPK

DPhillips,

See my previous post on the absurdity of pretending that no response can be made to an alleged "locked" PM.

JPK

JPK,
You have a PM. Feel free to post it!

See below, with the prior permission of DPhillips , including my response:

DPhillips PM:
Just seeing if I lock a PM. No offense intended...

Dave

My response:
Yes, the PM was "locked" in the sense that no direct reply could be made and there was a note provided by the forum and not the poster below the topic window that read "Topic Closed."

But, as you can see, by merely clicking on your name and then selecting "Invite DPhillips to a Private Topic" I am able to respond.

BTW, thanks for the clarification post, I was beginning to wonder what crappy PM I'd ever sent to anyone.

JPK

Yukon Delta, Thank you for sharing the PM. I was already turned off by his comments and then to hear how he responded to you, well that just iced the cake. I sure as heck will not book a hunt through that outfit. Let him figure the math on this one.

What part of "Private Message" do people not understand?

Must be the "Private" part.

So, allow me to quote Webster:

pri·vate Pronunciation: \ˈprī-vət\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English privat, from Anglo-French, from Latin privatus, from past participle of privare to deprive, release, from privus private, individual; probably akin to Latin pro for, in front of — more at for
Date: 14th century
1 a: intended for or restricted to the use of a particular person . . .

Antonym: "Public" - such as, e.g., this thread.

Thank God I don't have to apologize publicly for every stupid or ill-advised remark I have ever made. No one should have to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
What part of "Private Message" do people not understand?

Must be the "Private" part.

So, allow me to quote Webster:

pri·vate Pronunciation: \ˈprī-vət\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English privat, from Anglo-French, from Latin privatus, from past participle of privare to deprive, release, from privus private, individual; probably akin to Latin pro for, in front of — more at for
Date: 14th century
1 a: intended for or restricted to the use of a particular person . . .

Antonym: "Public" - such as, e.g., this thread.

Thank God I don't have to apologize publicly for every stupid or ill-advised remark I have ever made. No one should have to do that.

Why would anyone try to portray two different persona's? One for public and one private. Don't try to be that which your character will not allow.

Again, "you" is general, not specific to the above quoted poster.

DPhillips, it's really very simple. Not about portrayals or anything else.

What one person says to another in private, in the heat of the moment, with history, prejudice, pissed-offedness, lack of forethought, anger, spite, or you bloody well name it in play - and without regard to what anyone else may think about it - is sometimes and even often much, much different than what he might say to that same person in public.

Who hasn't been there and done that?

That is what humans do, and often to their regret.

And "humans" is general, not specific to any poster.

And IMHO, when such essentially private things are publicly aired, then the publisher owes nearly as much of an apology as the offender.

But then it is generally too late. When such things become public battles, good sense and apologies are generally the first casualties.

IMHO, this needs to be left to the only two people involved with an interest.

I would certainly hope that they can and will work it out between themselves (or not, it's up to them and not us, after all) without any help from anyone else.

And so, I will henceforth leave it to them, especially as I have worked very late this evening, and have a full slate of more tomorrow.

Good night!

Guys, I would think that this is a disagreement between two people and that is how it should have stayed. It never should have become a public character assasination or witch hunt. I would always think that a PM should remain just that, a PM, to do otherwise is a betrayal of trust, irrespective of the content. Lets just move on and consider it water under the bridge so to speak, as the more this is brought up, the more trouble it is going to cause which is unnecessary I think, and it should not really involve others. It is always better to try make friends rather than enemies in this world.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
I believe the PM feature means just what it says...a Private Message. Making public what is said or written in private is not in good taste, IMO, regardless of the content.

Do you believe that a nasty PM which is immediately closed so that the recipient cannot even reply to the nasty attack message should also be kept private? That is the set of circumstances that Bryan faced. And I support Bryan's decision to make the content of the message public. Perhaps the sender of the nasty PM will learn from this experience and send only polite PMs in the future.

Why even send a PM like that. What is the point? If I was on this forum to promote my business, I would never send a message like that. Even if I thought I was right.

I'm happy to live with Saeed's rules on this forum. While I respect everyone's right to disagree, multiple posts by the host and an unequivical position should get the message across.

Let's move on ...

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by MotorCity:
Why even send a PM like that. What is the point? If I was on this forum to promote my business, I would never send a message like that. Even if I thought I was right.

MotorCity,

I'm willing to bet that the originator of the PM is 100% in agreement with your post. Probably was when he made the PM too but we all FU from time to time in the heat of the moment, eh?

500 Grains,

It takes but two clicks to reply to even a closed PM. Its so easy even a caveman can do it!

JPK

Charlton McCallum hunt prices in Zimbabwe (as an example):

10 days Buffalo & Plainsgame 1 x 1 $9,500

Excludes tropy fees for game taken or wounded, gvt levies, charters,
gratuities & accommodation in Harare before & after a hunt.
Buffalo Bull trophy fee $2,500

Road transfer - say $200
Tax - say $200
Dip/Pack say $450

Total $12850

vs the quoted $18300 for Tanzania in the first post of this thread.

a difference of $5450.

If a second buffalo was add, say $5500 (unknown?) for Zimbabwe the totals work out as:

Tanzania $20800
Zimbabwe $18350

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

500 Grains,

It takes but two clicks to reply to even a closed PM. Its so easy even a caveman can do it!

JPK

You are right of course, but I suspect that public showing of the PM will be more effective at discouraging undesirable behavior in the future than a private response. And the fact that the sender of the PM did not permit direct responses to it could be illustrative of his underlying intent. For example, he may have intended this for Bryan:

500grs,
If someone like Mark, who uses his real name and lists his contact info, were to send me a PM that I have issues with, I assure you I wouldn't bother with a return PM. A phone call, at the very least, would be a better option.

quote:

I am a little amused with Kudu 56's post. It seems he dislikes me on numerous levels and I don't know that we have ever corresponded about anything.

Mark

One does not need to 'know' someone to dislike them, and he's far from being the lone ranger on this one. Far from it.

KG

quote:

One does not need to 'know' someone to dislike them, and he's far from being the lone ranger on this one. Far from it.

Your character is second to none! You are welcome any time, day or night, to my home or hunting camp!

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

500 Grains,

It takes but two clicks to reply to even a closed PM. Its so easy even a caveman can do it!

JPK

You are right of course, but I suspect that public showing of the PM will be more effective at discouraging undesirable behavior in the future than a private response. And the fact that the sender of the PM did not permit direct responses to it could be illustrative of his underlying intent. For example, he may have intended this for Bryan:

First, I don't think telling a fellow he is believed by the poster to be a jerk or in this case a pompus ass IN PRIVATE is undesirable behavior, generally speaking, and so I see no need for discouragement, second, I believe the delivery of a "locked" PM, if it happened at all, is tantamount to ending a sentance with an exclamation point. A response can aways be made, it shouldn't be made in public and if the responder is too stupid to figure out a method of responding, well so be it. I know that Bryan was not too stupid to respond and did in fact respond.

JPK

I wish there was an ignore feature for threads. This one outlived its usefulness a long time ago.

[Okay, now all those that are judgmental can comment that if I really wanted to ignore the thread, then I could have just not opened it, and on, and on, and on. Please just send me a PM. ]

In my Opinion Mark Young is definitely a homo sapien and most likely a masticater.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
I believe the PM feature means just what it says...a Private Message. Making public what is said or written in private is not in good taste, IMO, regardless of the content.

Exactly!

Sometime ago, I sent a PM to a member, he passed that onto another member, who in turn post it on the forums.

I asked that individual to never post the content of a PM, whether it was directed to him or another member.

He posted part of the content of this PM too.

Neither of those two posts on AR any more.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MJines:
I wish there was an ignore feature for threads. This one outlived its usefulness a long time ago.QUOTE]

Agree with Mike; someone tie this one off.

THE HELL IT HAS...!

I want to know more about Frank's Zim hunt and the name of the outfitter...?

Frank, Please send me a PM with contact info for this PH and Safari company.

Well, if someone sends me an unsolicited nasty PM, he should not be surprised to see the contents appear in public.

I think it is pretty evident that Mark Young's presence here is more benificial than if he wasn't around. MHO
I've booked a hunt through Mark and he has been very helpful and informative. Gone out of his way to make me happy with some special requests.
Where I come from, men can yell at each other and not become enemies. Build a bridge and get over it.

Mark Young has been a real asset in my Africa addiction-he has acted well both when I was a client and before when I was just a looie lou! He treated myself and my wife with class and businesslike decorum. I for one can speak highly of the man based on my experience. Everyone loses his temper once in a while but I see no reason to pile on as some in this thread have.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
I believe the PM feature means just what it says...a Private Message. Making public what is said or written in private is not in good taste, IMO, regardless of the content.

Exactly!

Sometime ago, I sent a PM to a member, he passed that onto another member, who in turn post it on the forums.

I asked that individual to never post the content of a PM, whether it was directed to him or another member.

He posted part of the content of this PM too.

Neither of those two posts on AR any more.

Trouble is Saeed, some people can't tell the difference between an email, sent to an email address, and a PM, sent internally to people who are members.

I'll reserve comment on how others conduct business, that is their business. But it is threads like this that find me checking into A-R less and less. I have been a member for a long time. When once it was the first forum I would check out each day it is now quite a ways down the list. I think we have lost a lot of good members over the years due to such conduct.

I find myself going to NE.com, BearsEast.com, WomenHunters.com and even craig's list and araucana.net before A-R anymore.

Why is that? There is more interest here in negative and argumentative posts than posting something nice on a guy or gal who just got back from a good safari or hunt.

The 'family' here is a bit disfunctional!

Amen Ann! I have been on the road for 10 days and just read this "thing". Mark Young has been an honorable man in all my dealings with him.

Ann---------

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I'll reserve comment on how others conduct business, that is their business. But it is threads like this that find me checking into A-R less and less. I have been a member for a long time. When once it was the first forum I would check out each day it is now quite a ways down the list. I think we have lost a lot of good members over the years due to such conduct.

I find myself going to NE.com, BearsEast.com, WomenHunters.com and even craig's list and araucana.net before A-R anymore.

Why is that? There is more interest here in negative and argumentative posts than posting something nice on a guy or gal who just got back from a good safari or hunt.

The 'family' here is a bit disfunctional!

Ann,

That is precisely why I don't post my hunts or anything else that has meaning to me on this site.

This is the most unfriendly troll/asshole rich environment on the net.

I'll tell you one thing it is good for though. I've now found two booking agents that I'd NEVER do business with.

Ann,

I couldn't have said it better (except the part about WomenHunters.com).

Doug

Many bored people here, me thinks you should go out and do more hunting

I thought I was the only inmature grown up man around (at least this is what my wife thinks)...thanks for not making me feel alone..

Personally, I have never booked a hunt through Mark yet, I have tried it and by one reason or another I have changed plans now and then.

Despite this,he has always been very helpful and always took me seriously despite I have put him to work for free several times. He has always been a gentleman.

My 2cts
L

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
The 'family' here is a bit dysfunctional!

Ann,

I don't consider myself at "family" status but I can add this. I have been active on four other non-hunting forums. Two have since disappeared both because the "host" no longer felt the negative nature of the forum was worth the "cost". I am only responding because I too always thought of these now defunct forums as a dysfunctional family. I actually met members personally while on business trips because I got to "know them" over the years. They are friends to this day.

I wouldn't get too wound up over the Mark vs. Bryan deal. I know Mark from Dillingham and I have communicated with Bryan already for other reasons. They are both human beings.

One thing I will mention. Generally the only time I have posted something somewhere or sent a PM I wish I could get back was when alcohol loosened my tongue (or fingers on the keyboard).

OK, I'm going back to lurking now. Hope to read some great reports of hunting in Namibia. 2010 is a long way away.

Later
Jim

Larry,

I too was born and brought up in New England and you can see from a recent thread what an ass I am.

Mark



ADAM CLEMENTS SAFARI TRACKERS INC.
Tanzania Bundu Safaris and Tanganyika Trekkers Photographic Safairs
www.safaritrackers.com
Mark H. Young
Tele: 1-307-587-6372
Cell: 307-250-1156
E-mail:markttc@msn.com


Perhaps this from another thread will explain things.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by DPhillips:

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
DPhillips,
I do not understand your post. How do you lock a private message?

I don't know how you do that, but the PM sent to YD from Mark was locked by Mark so that YD couldn't reply. I see no recourse from YD, no matter what Saeed says, except to respond through this thread.

Like I said, it's chickensh__ to not allow a person to respond to your PM and don't blame YD at all in posting it.

DPhillips,

If a sender can really "lock" a PM so that the recipient cannot respond, then why wouldn't a recipient interested in responding just start a new PM to the originator?

JPK

JPK, what he did, I think is post a PM, then block YD from his in box!

Personally I believe it is far better to air things out in public, than in private. That way you get things out in the middle of the floor so you can kick it around, and get the opinions of others on your, and your opponant's sides.

However, how ever unrully the post may be as long as they are sent in private, they will be responded to in private. Again, however, if my responce is blocked, then the post to me will not be posted publiclly, but my responce will be public, and I will pull no punches!

I hear this all the time that AR is so combative,, and it may be in many of the forums, but the ones I visit don't seem to be any more combative than any other website I visit, Nitro Express included, and in fact I find NE more combative that AR, in the forums I post on. I do not visit a political forum, on any website, because it is a place where combat was invented, and that is not restricted to AR, but on any political forum.

I, for one, do not consider correcting false information to be combative, especially where safety is concerned. I do not consider the calling a person on matters of ethics as combative, eventhough the person being called down, my take it that way. If a person's skin is so thin that they can't take a disagreement on a subject without getting abusive, then that is his/her problem!

This website is a place where the free exchange of information, and ideas, and I see nothing wrong with folks disagreeing with one another on any subject, and because the forum is public, others will get their opinions in as well, makeing the thread a very democratic place, takeing the outlook from all dirrections, to form a consensus of opinion. A debate is always going to draw different opinion, on any matter, that is how we learn. It is enevitable that others will have a different slant, and may be saying the same thing their opponant is saying without realizeing it.

The world seems to have become a mass of politicaly correct drones, that can't satnd to be disagreed with, or to express a valid opinion, for fear of offending others! Well get a life everyone looks at you with their own eyes, and they are not always going to agree with you. Be an adult, and suck it up, you'll live over it!

I have ignored this thread for a couple of days. Was frankly getting discouraged by it. Glad to see others commenting about that and its nice to see something of a resolution happening.

I'd like to say that I took one of the inexpensive Adam Clements North Mahenge, TZ, buf hunts in 2006. Was a MOST memorable hunt for me! It was the real deal! Hunting in the tall grass with the lions ... lions and hyena in camp at night ... a successful hunt on the last day during which a herd of 200-300 buf charged around the 30 foot ant hill we were standing on. There were a couple of small problems and Mark was very, very active and effective in getting them resolved. (Wish those hunts were still available. May have been the last buf hunt I could actually afford.)

Sounds to me as if he just might be human like the rest of us ... and some of us are prone to swarm at times and that's not pretty either.

I visit, Nitro Express included, and in fact I find NE more combative that AR, in the forums I post on.

Mac

What Forums do you visit on Nitro Express? I have always thought that it was about the friendliest place I have stopped by. Too bad they don't have a more on Africa though.

They are very knowledable on Double Rifles and are extremely willing to share. Not like the prima donnas on this Double Rifle Forum who tell guys to go away and not come back until they know more. How arrogant is that?