Folks,

Some recent threads have mentioned the perceived huge increases in prices in Tanzania. What if we do a comparison based on a pretty normal scenario of 2 guys wanting to hunt buffalo? They have decided that they would like to shoot 2 buffalo each if possible and their research tells them that there best opportunities may be in Tanzania or Zimbabwe. They know Zimbabwe has always produced a good value for the money but the lore of the Selous has drawn them to at least get some pricing for Tanzania.

Below is a what they might have found when comparing apples to apples.

ZIMBABWE:

1X1 10 DAYS $10,000 2X1 10 DAYS $9,500
1ST BUFF $2,500
2ND BUFF $5,500 UPTO $7,500
DIP/PACK $450
2% TAX $190
ROAD TRANSFER $200 PER HUNTER

TOTAL 1X1 $18,840 2x1 $18,340

SELOUS:

10 DAYS 1X1 $14,900 2X1 10 DAYS $11,900
1ST BUFF $2,200
2ND BUFF $2,500
CHARTER $1,200 PER HUNTER

TOTAL 1X1 $20,800 2x1 $17,800

The above prices are based on the an average of the 3 operations we represent in Zim as opposed to our own LU5 in the Selous. The prices represent all costs for both hunts other than additional trophy fees, tips and hotels as necessary.

Tanzania prices have gone up. Have the increases taken it out of the running for short buffalo hunts? Obviously not.

Mark

Is that comparison a total cost basis? Includes all costs once the big bird lands? No dip and pack fees in Tanz? No tax or other add on costs? Apples to apples?

I've tried the math a couple of times and can't seem to come up with the same totals.

SG Olds

Absolutely! Our own LU5 Bundu pricing always includes all dip/pack and Tanzania government fees.

Mark

Allright, I can see where the price is still pretty comparable on a 2x1 basis, but... who would go to Zim and hunt 2x1 for a paltry $500 savings?
Let's make this a fair comparison. Price it as a 2x2 hunt in the selous compared to a 1x1 hunt in Zim. I think that would be a little more fair of a comparison. Any thread started here involving the pro's and cons of hunting 2x1 is always tilted towards spending the extra cash. Let's see where it ends up now.

SBT

If you think there is some obvious error in my post I'd really appreciate it if you let me know what it is so I can address it. If you find an error I'll modify the post ASAP.

THX

Mark

Len,

Please read the post again it shows both 1x1 and 2x1 pricing. I did a litte tweak that may make that more obvious.

Mark

ZIMBABWE:

1X1 10 DAYS $10,000 2X1 10 DAYS $9,500
1ST BUFF $2,500
2ND BUFF $5,500 UPTO $7,500
DIP/PACK $450
2% TAX $190
ROAD TRANSFER $200 PER HUNTER

TOTAL $19,040 2x1 $18,540

I get this for 1x1:
$10,000+2,500+5,500+450+190+200=$18,840
or
$10,000=2,500+7,500+450+190+200=$20,840

Same type of thing happens with the Tanzania calculations. Am I adding something wrong?

I think the difference will be greater if you calculate one buff only.

quote:

SELOUS:

10 DAYS 1X1 $14,900 2X1 10 DAYS $11,900
1ST BUFF $2,200
2ND BUFF $2,500
CHARTER $1,200 PER HUNTER

TOTAL 1X1 $18,800 2x1 $15,800

I cannot get your numbers either Mark.

1x1 if not traveling with another hunter, I come up with $22,000 for a 10-day 2-buffalo hunt in Tanzania.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
I think the difference will be greater if you calculate one buff only.

Absolutely. The average hunter goes for 1 buff. You could really skew this by looking at the price for a tuskless but I won't do that.

Also, tips are not being considered and the tips recommended in TZ are huge.

Guys,

Thanks for kicking my ass on this one. I have modified the post.

Mark

Mark,

I believe the trophy fee for buffalo in Zim is $3000.

Jeff

I'm just curious...did anyone else get a nasty PM or email from Mark disparaging their character and cussing them for their response on this topic?

Very professional Mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Mark,

I believe the trophy fee for buffalo in Zim is $3000.

Jeff

I've seen $2500 but do not know if it is uniform.

Folks,

This is really interesting. it would seem that I have unleashed the uninformed to spew their ignorance. I apologize for that. All I really was trying to do show that you could hunt in Tanzania at comparable prices to Zimbabwe.

Mark

I guess I will take a shot at this. I believe my price comparisons include everything from the obvious day rates and trophy fees to the not always obvious rifle and ammo duties, concession fees, pack and dip, taxes, extra medical evacuation insurance, flights, drive in cost, etc. etc. some outfitters package things very nicely while others almost require an accountant.
My trip is for 10 days, my wife is coming as an observer, animals include one buffalo and 5 plains game (wildebeest, hartebeest, impala, warthog, and zebra). The hunts I compared were the same with the exception of slight deviations in the plaingame due to availability. I think I covered everything while in country.

Tanzania Selous: $28,450.00
Zimbabwe: $24,740.00
Zambia Chanjuzi: $27,300.00

If I am not mistaken Zambia can be a good choice if you are looking for croc and hippo because they are available on a 10 day license.

Zim is a little shaky for me with old Bob still in power.

I booked Tanzania. It was a little more expensive but I felt it was worth it. I guess I want to feel like I am Ruark in Tanganyika.

148 days to Africa and counting down.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

This is really interesting. it would seem that I have unleashed the uninformed to spew their ignorance. I apologize for that. All I really was trying to do show that you could hunt in Tanzania at comparable prices to Zimbabwe.

Mark

Not sure if you are addressing me or not, but the thrust of most of the posts I saw was to get clarification on the head's up comparison. I think most people who want two buff would pick Tanzania which is why I posted what I did. I think Zimbabwe loses a lot of price advantage when you want two buffalo.

You certainly do not need me to tell you how to run your business but it seems to me that negative posts tend to turn people off.

I'm turned off.

I can tell you I won't be booking with Mark after what he said to me. I'll continue booking with Wendell Reich, independent operators and others.

Here is part of what he said and it's a direct quote, "You obviously are a little pompous ass who has learned nothing from life or your God." Mark thinks I shouldn't post because I don't know as much as he does...and I'm the pompous one?

Having hunted in both Zimbabwe and Tanzania several times each, I would rather hunt in Zimbabwe given the chance.

In fact, I wold still be hunting in Zimbabwe if Mugabe did not ruined it for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Having hunted in both Zimbabwe and Tanzania several times each, I would rather hunt in Zimbabwe given the chance.

In fact, I wold still be hunting in Zimbabwe if Mugabe did not ruined it for me.

Saeed,

I am making my first trip to Africa (Selous) this year. I did my research and I am comfortable with my choice. However I still have a lot to learn and am already thinking about a second trip in 2010.

Why do you prefer Zim?

BTW Great site, can be a tough crowd at times.

Thanks,

quote:

Here is part of what he said and it's a direct quote, "You obviously are a little pompous ass who has learned nothing from life or your God." Mark thinks I shouldn't post because I don't know as much as he does...and I'm the pompous one?

Now do you see the types of people we have moving here to Wyoming????? You should try living with them! I have seen his private statements to you, the norm of his industry, not all but most. Right in there with zumbo! Another transplant!

A couple of years ago I went to SCI to meet a few different booking agents that I was considering booking a buffalo hunt with. One was Adam Clements. He was as rude and arrogant as you are being on this post Mark. That was the reason I didn't book with him, and never will.

Your comments here are going a long way to promote your competition.

quote:

Originally posted by SDHall:
Your comments here are going a long way to promote your competition.

GOOD OH!!!!!!!

sorry about that...... just my daft English sense of humour coming out!!!

Folks,

I must apologize as my poor math seems to have initiated the total derailing of this thread.

I have no personal problem with any posters on this thread other than Bryan who has chosen to make a private message public. Bringing private disagreements to the forums usually is not productive. I am a little amused with Kudu 56's post. It seems he dislikes me on numerous levels and I don't know that we have ever corresponded about anything.

Mark

Personally, I've read a ton of Bryan's stuff and never find him pompous or whatever. You should apologize.

Jeff

Prices for Zimbabwe 2008 in Moscow (2 buff):
1X1 12 DAYS $13,000
1ST BUFF $4,200
2ND BUFF $4,200
DIP/PACK $500
2% TAX
INSURANCE $2 per day
ROAD TRANSFER $1,000 PER HUNTER

I prefer Tanzania...

Mark's prices are very reasonable for Tanzania. Best we can do (Mahenge N) for a double buff with PG, 10 days is:

1x1 $17K
2x1 $14K
Trophy fee buff $2280 each
incl. dip&pack, govt fees, road transfers ex Dar es Salaam.

We have availability this year August and Sept.

The comparison with Zim is a little skewed by the fact that the practice in Zim is to charge close to a full hunt for the second buff, not just a second trophy fee; and the discount for the second hunter is typically only $50 per day, at least this is what the outfit that has most of the lower valley tied up allows. They really don't encourage 2x1 and likewise their second buff is not exactly an inducement...it's more of a "gotcha" for the unfortunate hunter who wounds and loses the first buff and then takes another one to avoid going home empty-handed.

If you are looking at a 1x1 hunt for one buff plus PG, Zim comes out cheaper. For one buff, Tanzania is quite a bit stiffer than Zim, although if you split a 2 buff hunt (our guy charges $12K plus trophy for a 7 day split bag 2 hunters 2 buff) it's close to being a wash.

Having said that, as soon as Mugabe goes, watch for Zim prices to equal Tanzania's.

Mark, How is your charter cost determined and from where? Your cost to charter in is about what I would expect and roughly 1/6 the price quoted to me on a charter into the Selous from Kil. I've been told that the cost to fly in Tanz is simply prohibitive and that's the reason. Obviously, it's not in your case. Take care

Mark -- It would be very easy for me to say that based on the way I was treated by you and Mr Adam Clements -- following my 06 total disaster of a Safari in Tanzania--- I would not book into one of your "deals" no matter how good it appeared -- but then again -- this is not the place to air dirty laundry per your post.

Garry Woodman

Mark, I didn't take your post as a "Hunt offer", but a post to educate and/or promote thought and discussion.

Retracted dissertation as I decided it ain't none of my business!

$22K all-in for a 1x1 10-day buff hunt in a prime concession in the Selous w/based on my experience a quality outfitter like Bundu sounds pretty darn good to me by today's standards.

I can't wait until we get a breeding herd of buf hunt ready in Texas. When it happens there will be no doubt where the bargin buf hunts are. They won't be in Texas I can tell you that with the utmost confidence. The saying that everything is bigger in Texas also applies to the hunting fees.
Sorry to hijack your thread Mark.

I guess everyone has forgotten the hunters who got screwed over in Tanzania last year? Hunting in Zimbabwe has an obvious risk as well.
Comparing prices without knowing the outfitters is tough, but I do know I can get a 2 buffalo and a non-trophy elephant bull, 10 days all-inclusive in Zimbabwe for less than the estimate given for 2 buffalo in the same country.I'm booked for July. No doubt someone can beat that price. There's also no doubt someone offer better value for the money at a higher price, and there is no question that hunts in Zimbabwe have a risk attached that they may not take place at all given the present political climate. That Tanzania can and has changed prices in midstream is a matter of record. How do you go about deciding or comparing between the two? There are a lot more variables than just the money. BTW I've hunted Zim, and not Tanzania. That by itself is a reason to hunt there. How do you put a price on that?

Dogleg,

That is incredible. Would you mind laying out the pricing. I'd like to work with these guys.

Mark

Mark H. Young,
Sure, it's not a secret and it has been mentioned here before.Bearing in mind that I'm a hunter not a booking agent here's the break-down.

10 day non-trophy bull elephant hunt $12,000 all inclusive. Adding a buffalo brings it to $14,950. Adding a second buffalo at the exact same $2950 trophy fee comes to $17,900. $500 dip and pack for a grand total of $18,400. There are no extra charges. Plains game are available subject to quota at normal trophy fees as well, but that is outside the scope of this topic.
The hunt is known as the "24 hour Campfire hunt" and is promoted on the website of that name. I went on the first one last year, and shot buffalo, giraffe, eland and a couple zebra in seven days. 2 buffalo was an option then as well, though I didn't shoot two. I can put you in contact with the booking agent if you wish.

Dogleg,

The three hunts, 1x1 or 2x1 in Zim or Tanzania and the Campfire hunt are not comparable. And so neither is the pricing.

For the Zim and Tanzania 1x1 or 2x1 hunts many costs are born by the one hunter or two hunters, where the Campfire hunt splits these costs amoung several more.

A large group hunt may be for some folks, but isn't for many others. Like many activities, their is the potential for savings in numbers but also some potential issues. Whatever your preferencs, the hunts are not comparable.

JPK

JPK,
I don't know about that. Last year we had 3 hunters. This year there is 3 hunters. Is that a large group? Last year the hunters arrived on 2 different days and left on two different days. Same thing this year. I don't see a lot of savings there. The option of hunting 2x1 was there, though I don't know why anyone would want to do that. The price that we are getting is no different than the advertised prices from the same outfit, and would be the same if I booked by myself through the same booking agent. I very nearly did, but as fortune would have it I picked the dates.The only difference for me is that I'll have company on the plane instead going by myself.I'm not promoting the 24 Hour Hunt, I'm pointing out that these are the regular prices for at least one company, who happens to be hosting that hunt.
I don't think any hunts in two different countries are comparable. Sure you can hunt buffalo in Tanzania and Zimbabwe, but you can't hunt Tanzania in Zimbabwe, and you can't hunt Zimbabwe in Tanzania. I intend to do both, not to compare but as two separate experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

quote:

Here is part of what he said and it's a direct quote, "You obviously are a little pompous ass who has learned nothing from life or your God." Mark thinks I shouldn't post because I don't know as much as he does...and I'm the pompous one?

Now do you see the types of people we have moving here to Wyoming????? You should try living with them! I have seen his private statements to you, the norm of his industry, not all but most. Right in there with zumbo! Another transplant!

I find it very distasfull for anyone to post the content of a PM!

What is said in private, should remain in private!

Dogleg,

Camp costs and many others are cut by the number of hunters there at once, still if this is the same price you would have paid if you had booked alone, its seems a really good deal if you were to book alone. (Not to say that it isn't a good deal with the other Campfire hunters there too, just that it becomes comparable to the other hunts discussed.)

JPK