OK, so... say your family/business partners have decided they're sick of you, and would like you to leave... preferably out of the country...

Namibia's been mentioned, and I've thought about maybe S. Bolivia or Argentina...

If you were looking for a place to basically raise cattle/take family hunting on occasion, would either place be a good idea? (Neither Spanish, nor German would be a problem for me to brush up on.)

Aglifter,
Argentina is a very good option. You would have to decide what kind of climate you prefer as it has all of them. 1000 vientres (mother cows) would provide enough income to live well off of. The North is warm with semi arid to the west and humid to the east. The South is cooler with snows once south of the colorado river. In the north you have great duck and other wingshooting and in the south big game predominates but there is still pretty good waterfowl and some upland birds as well. Are you thinking along the lines of something like this:

or this:

or this:

and do you want only bovine cattle? Because there is also land more suitable for sheep and land for agriculture and also a mix. Here is some cotton from the North:

JohnAir,

Where would you recommend if one wanted to escape the winter in the US for a month or two (January/February), rent a property, and perhaps take advantage of upland bird hunting and trout fishing?

I understand Belize is becoming a great ex-patriate destination.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

SBT,
Escaping the winter you would be better served to go to the South, because, as the seasons are the opposite of the Northern hemisphere, you would be facing temps of 40 C and more if you went farther North than Cordoba. Cordoba would be about 35C and Rio Negro, Neuquen, Chubut, around 30C. The upland bird season starts in May so that is out for the months you mention but dove is open all year and Cordoba is the place for that because there are not that many in Rio Negro, Neuquen, Chubut. Trout fishing is available in all of those provinces, and the season corresponds. I would recomend either near Bariloche in Rio Negro or Cordoba. That would put you in a good area for what you want and also very near to all the amenities and services. AND NOT COOKING TO DEATH TOO FAR NORTH.

It certainly sounds tempting... I'd prefer to be someplace south I think -- that first photo seemed about ideal.

I can point you towards some properties then. In the South (patagonia) you need more land to suport 1000 vientres than you would in the North. What is your budget?

quote:

Originally posted by JohnAir:
I can point you towards some properties then. In the South (patagonia) you need more land to suport 1000 vientres than you would in the North. What is your budget?

So, thinking of Patagonia, how much land would typically be needed to support 1 (or 1000) "vientres"?? And what would a representative cost be (per acre, ha or whatever)??

- mike

Be aware that Argentine President Christina Kirchner tried to impose a 40% tax on agricultural products this year. It was met by a strike by the farmers/ranchers. Buenos Aires is so large, it can outvote the rest of the country.

Mike,
Land in patagonia is not the most economical for cattle. It is more expensive because of the views, trout fishing, tourism, etc. that is asociated with the region. In general terms you would need at least 12000 acres wich would cost around 1 to 1.5 million. This would give you around $120,000 from the bovine cattle plus whatever the sheep and hunting can produce.

Steve,
the tax increase, that was defeated, is on export. A very small percetnage of Argentine beef is exported and so would not affect this kind of an operation. This is all consumed in the domestic market and beef/cattle prices are higher in patagonia than in the rest of the country. The tax affects grain export and with the current price of grain the current tax will necesarily be modified if the govt wants the farmers to plant. Soy is down to $334 in Chicago and was over $600 at one time before the greedy govt tried to hike the tax.

Thanks JohnAir. Now, how about recommending a small town on the coast near Bariloche? Can nice homes with some privacy be rented short term for a couple of months? Any idea of cost range?

Maybe a winter vacation to Argentina to check it out and do a little hunting and fishing is in order. Please let me know when the update to your web site is completed.

SBT,
the coast is quite distant from Bariloche, which is in the foothills of the Andes. At about the same latitude as Bariloche, but on the Atlantic coast you have Puerto Pyramides with it's whales and penguin colonies.
I have never looked to rent a house in the area of Bariloche and couldn't recomend one but I would guess that the cost would be around $3000/month.

SBT,
I did a search for you. houses, rental, Bariloche

centrica means downtown. The other 2 are seperated by how far from downtown they are, and the 4th is the eastern area of town. Just click those links to see pictures, descriptions and the owners contact info.

Give me a break !!! do you REALLY want to know the BEST place to live in SA ??

National Celebration


Palm trees


Montevideo, our capital


Punta del Este


Miss Uruguay


National Red Angus Champ at my Artificial Insemination Center


One of my bulls


Do you need more to decide ??

L

Beautiful country and has better govt than Arg.
that's for sure.

Not talking as an expert, but I would stay as far away from Namibia, or any African country for that matter, as I could. Great for a hunting destination but to live their? The Kirchners in power may not be great, but to me it is far better than the prospect of black rule. In Argentina that can change. In Africa the politics will only continue to worsen. Look what black rule has done to South Africa, and worse yet, Zimbabwe. Years ago I seriously considered a place in western South Africa, in the area of Nelspruit, and then again along the eastern cape along the strand, but after watching what has happened there, I am glad I did not do so.

Belize? Been there and two weeks was far and away the longest I would want to be there. Fun to visit if you like to scuba dive and/or fish, and one great ruin. But seeing one ruin is enough. Hot and humid. The only advantage is that if you own two pairs of shorts and a few T-shirts you are set for life.

Now I have thought about moving south and since I cannot deal well with hot weather (I spent most of my life in southern Arizona and now live in the mountains) the Patagonia area in Argentina and Chile would be my climate based choice. My favorite time of year - fall. I am planning to visit Uruguay when I go south this coming March and Lorenzo paints a beautiful picture. But the hot weather concerns me.

Lorenzo, those are magnificent bulls. I will truly enjoy seeing them. I also believe an Argentine amigo of mine has bought some property on the Uruguayan coast. And were I 40 years younger Miss Uruguay would be reason enough to make that move.

I don't know anything about the ranching or farming business and am too old to learn. I look at southern Argentina as a wonderful and reasonable place to live, with a bit of bias as I have made so many friends in that country. Another big issue for me is the distance from family; Uruguay or Argentina is a hell of a lot closer than Namibia.

Lorenzo,

is ag buiz in Uruguay mainly cattels ? What about your buiz ? Im a grain farmer from Sweden my self! But you have some nice breed in Uruguay for sure!

Matts

Hi Matts,

Uruguayan economy is mainly based in agriculture, cattle and tourism.

Our most sommon crops are sorgum, corn, weed, suflower, soy, rice, etc.

Cattle breeds is mostly hereford, angus and holstein.

I have two small companies, one is a lab where I produce embryos of high quality genetics and the other one is an Artifcial Insemiation Center where I house bulls for produce semen straws for the local market and for export.

Thanks for your comments, indeed we have very good genetics but our country it's small and doesn't have much international marketing as our neighbours Argentina and Brazil.

L

Lorenzo,
how do you hunt wild bore in Uruguay? Driven hunt or how ? Is there any comercial wild bore hunting fore tourists? Seems to be nice travel to Uruguay with family and have some wildbore hunt when wife and kids doing tourism!
Matts

Don't worry about hunting, there are enough pigs in my country so it's easy to find some farmer happy to receive someone to help him keeping pig numbers low

Summer (jenuary/february) is the best time for tourism (do some Google about Punta del Este or any other place at the uruguayan coast).

I will be more than happy to escape with you a couple of days for chasing pigs, not many as my wife is expecting our second son for end of this year

L

>>>>>>I have never looked to rent a house in the area of Bariloche and couldn't recomend one but I would guess that the cost would be around $3000/month.>>>>>>

Surely you don't mean U.S. dollars?. That seems expensive or else the house must include a fantastic view, a lot of land, and come with servants.

Bill Quimby

Bill,
Yup. Check the link I posted for SBT. There are houses that that include everything you mentioned but they seem to be around $6000 a month. Of course I'm sure there must be comon little houses for little money too.
P.S.
I'm not in the business and not offering rentals to anyone, just trying to help out with the info.

My only visit to Argentina was in 2002, and I came away after two weeks with the feeling that prices for everything were quite reasonable. My impression obviously was wrong.

Bill Quimby

Bill,
it depends a lot on the area too. The Bariloche area seems to have more foreigners than locals and is very expensive. The prices were lower in 2002. Real estate went up many times since then because American and European buyers were wolfing up the pataginia. With the current situation I´ll bet we see prices come down if there is no economic recovery in the next 12 months.

What would be the best part of Argentina, or Uruguay, for cattle production?

What's travel/import export like between AR and UR?

In Argentina probably Corrientes province.

I hunted partridge once in the Colonia province of Uruguay. Very nice place and very friendly people.

Also the capital Montevideo is probably the one with the highest quality of life in S. America, together with Santiago de Chile.

I don't personally think that Santiago is in a class with Montevideo, or for that matter, Cordoba, but that is a personal preference. Getting back to the cattle aspect of this: when the King Ranch came to Argentina they bought land in Corrientes, that doesn't mean it's the only place but it does mean that it is one of the best for that activity. You have to consider what is the best you can get for a reasonable cost, if you plan to make money you can't pay agricultural land prices for cattle land.