It sure as the devil affects primary extraction. I think it would be difficult lift the bolt on a fired round.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
It sure as the devil affects primary extraction. I think it would be difficult lift the bolt on a fired round.
Butch

The gun never had any extraction problems. I did add metal to the cam for that reason.

Wouldn't the correct way be relocating the bolt handle?
Butch

Matt, I own 3 different rangefinders including a Geovid and a split-image, and my 'go-to' rifle is zeroed dead-on at 300 yds with the lower fat line of the duplex reticle zeroed at 450. I'll admit that since I live in MS the ranges are somewhat shorter when compared to yours out West, the longest range I can shoot locally from a rest is 1100 yds. Of course ranges of up to several miles are available at the levee, but not from a rest. My shooting buddy the 'duster pilot...er, excuuuuse me, The Aerial Applicator (G), has an 800-yd range beside his home strip and he & his teenager go to shoot at the Hickory Egg every year. We shoot cattle egrets across the 80-acre (440 yds x 880 yds) catfish ponds, the farmers pay for the ammo. I can go on...

My point is that this ain't my first rodeo, I learned most of my truly long-range shooting in CO back in the '60s and have run in some fairly sporty company since then.

My hat is off to you and your shooting buddies, sir, since it's obvious that you are truly A World-Class Shooting SuperHero! I know guys who can clean the 600-yd target every time but who wouldn't dream of shooting at an elk across a 600-yd canyon, so you obviously have THEM beat!

But you still didn't answer my question about how many times you shot at elk in the past without seeing feet in the air. Sure, last year you did well, but what about all the years before? Be honest now but please don't tell us the answer.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Wouldn't the correct way be relocating the bolt handle?
Butch

To be perfectly honest, it never ocurred to me. Yes, you are probably right. That would have been easier. Just another sign of age. The small piece of stainless that I needed to silver solder in place has worked well.....Tom

Westpac, I have a Kestrel for doping the wind but have never used it for anything but targets and varmints. If its very windy I don't shoot at "game" far away. I passed up some does yesterday evening at around 300yds because of high winds. And I needed the meat.

God Bless, Louis

Louis, A Kestrel is good for the wind around you, but it does not tell you what is happening down range. Even shooting BR at 100yds., I have seen the wind go in several different directions from me to the target. I have the advantage of watching wind flags between myself and a target that doesn't move. I have several BR friends that PD hunt and they might end up walking the bullets into the target when shooting long range.
A lot of us have been around winning long range shooters and know the capabilities of their equip. and abilities. A lot of guys can make long range shots, but not consistant enough to hunt game. It kinda insults our intelligence for some one to say they shoot 600+ yards and always get their animal.
Butch

Butch, It kinda insults me too to think that you guys seem to think that a 600yd shot at an Elk is always unreasonable. It all boils down to knowing what you are capable of under any given set of circumstances. Too windy: dont shoot. Too far: dont shoot. Too excited: dont shoot. Laying down, calm, 600+yds, get the backpacks. An Elks vitals are alot bigger than most of the critters I shoot at all year. I shoot enough to know what I am capable of and if its not right its not worth trying. Merry Christmas, Louis

Louis, You have convinced yourself that you are capable of it and whatever is said you will go down in opposition. So be it. I only shoot a couple thousand rounds a year now. I am not as talented as you and will not take those shots. I don't have to post anymore on this as you know my position.
Butch

Butch, and anyone else...

I love all this talk about how range-finders give folks the perfect knowledge of range out to umpteen yards.

The smallest "gate" I am aware of in a field sports electronic rangefinder is that of the Geovid...that's one of the reasons it is so expensive.

The majority of rangefinders which advertise ranging to 800 or more yards have far too big a gate to range an elk reliably at that distance...a nice reflective metal barn, maybe, but a non-reflective animal the size of an elk?

Anyway, I'm with you Butch. I really don't understand the B.S. about all this long range shooting at game animals anyway. The art of hunting big game to me is the art of proving one can find and sneak up on the animals close enough to not only kill them, but to consistently do it humanely.

Reminds me of how everyone in the 'Nam was S.O.G., or a sniper, an LRP, or some such. Especially the ones who weren't even there.

Funny how the guys who compete in long range shooting where every shot is recorded as part of their publicly posted scores pretty much all figure out that even 600 yard shooting at big game is really not quite the thing if they respect the animal. Yet some folks are proud of it.

Guess it really does take all types to fill up this world.

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
Butch, It kinda insults me too to think that you guys seem to think that a 600yd shot at an Elk is always unreasonable. I..... An Elks vitals are alot bigger than most of the critters I shoot at all year...., Louis

Louis,
If you are insulted by that, perhaps that's a good thing. that's about the nicest thing i can say about shooting at game from 1/3 of a mile away. I won't share my internal thoughts on the subject as, trust me, you would not feel KINDA insulted.

a 1 moa rifle, under PERFECT conditions, would be a bit over 6" at 600 yards

and NO ONE would take a scoped bolt gun that shoots 6" at 100 yards hunting ...

why? Well, you can't be certain of where you bullets will hit, and you aint going to wound/loose/gutshoot an animal just because that's your only shot.

Yet, UNDER PERFECT CONDITIONS, that's the SMALLEST margin of error you have for banging away at an "elk cow" from 1,800 feet away

what happens if you have a near hit? 2 hours of an animal suffering, or lost, due to YOUR EGO.

Get closer ... HUNT ... 600 yards is shooting or sniping... and I have ALOT of respect for snipers ... but varmit and paper shooters wounding game just because they have toys to do so sickens me.

don't give me any crap about "you need the meat" .. sell the range finder and whizbang scope and HUNT .. the money from your transactions should feed you longer, and leave a better taste in your mouth, than flinging bullets at living targets, at 600 yards.

BTW, HUNTING isn't about killing, or harvesting meat. Its about ethics and ethical treatment of the aminals you are going to take. If you can't respect the animals, then you might be better off going to walmart

Most of the folks who post about their long-range shooting of animals IMO simply don't have enough trigger time yet to know what they're talking about. After a certain number of unanticipated misplaced shots it will finally occur to them (if they're bright enough) that there ain't no way in HELL they can know what the wind is doing past 2-300 yds on one of those 700-yd cross-canyon shots!

IMO these are the same sort of amateurs who carry around a 'braggin' group' in their wallets to impress the troops. It'll impress me all right; it'll impress me with the knowledge that that particular idiot CERTAINLY isn't worth listening to. Just like the guys who say they never miss the gong, it's a dead giveaway for abysmal ignorance if not outright lies.

If you really think you're that good, why haven't we heard about you winning at Hickory or Quigley or Perry or Hawk's Mountain? Have you ever even competed?

I think we know what the answer is.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
If you can't respect the animals, then you might be better off going to walmart

What, does WalMart let you beat the meat?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

Reminds me of how everyone in the 'Nam was S.O.G., or a sniper, an LRP, or some such. Especially the ones who weren't even there.

The woods are full 'em.

I don't hunt but if I did, I would never take a shot in which I did not have near-absolute confidence that I would sink the animal on the first (and only) shot. I guess my maximum distance for a muledeer or even an elk would be 200 yards. The idea that I may miss and wound the animal does not appeal to me...

Alright Guys, I don't go around shooting every game animal I see at over 600 yds. I am just saying that if the conditions are "near perfect" it can be done. From what I have witnessed there are probably more elk wounded at less than 100 yds than over 300yds.

Jeffeosso, There are alot of hunters in the dark timber with rifles that I am sure they can't group in 6" at 100 yds and they kill alot of elk. Are they all wrong also. If you are going to do any long range shooting you need a better than 1 moa rig anyway. And don't pick on me about "needing the meat". I am going to fill the freezer just encase this economy gets worse. I am in the construction business and am currently out of construction work. I was saying in the other post that I didn't even shoot at around 300 yds because of the wind. If I am not certain I can make the shot I don't shoot period.

J.D.Steele, Why don't you tell me a little about this Hickory Shoot. A buddy and myself might be interested. And no I have never shot in a competition except archery and shotgun.
When and what is required? Thanks and God Bless, Louis

Louis, the Hickory Egg Shoot is held each year in Hickory, NC, and is a hoot in several ways. The main venue is a paper woodchuck target that's fired on at 100 yds, 300 yds and 500 yds. 3 shots at each range, on your choice of bullseyes located on the 'chuck's head and body, different-sized scoring rings on each. Most folks fire at the head @ 100 yds while firing at the body @ 500 yds. The 300-yd is kinda optional, depending upon the shooter's optimism at the time. Rifle caliber and weight and rest equipment is shooter's choice, anything the shooter can drag to the line is permitted.

NO SIGHTERS! NO SPOTTERS!

After all the shooters have fired their 9 shots at the woodchuck target, a single egg is suspended by a string at 500 yds and each shooter can fire one shot at it.

NO SIGHTERS! NO SPOTTERS!

No group shooting here, it's either hit or no hit. It's runwhatchabrung on a level playing field with the winner getting MAJOR braggin' rights. You see everything from the 223 to the 50 M2 and get a chance to talk to some of the world's best medium-range shooters.

You're close, it's well worth the drive!
Regards, Joe

JD,
What conditions are typical at the shoot. That's one I've dreamed about attending some day, not with any illusion of winning, but of having a great time with good people.

Thanks Joe, When is it?
Merry Christmas, Louis

Ok, back to my original post

So what about a 300 wsm built on a:
700 long action mag - $350 (trued)
Carbon Fiber Barrel - $800 (installed)
Tactical Synthetic Stock - $400
Bedding material - $35
Trigger - adjust myself - free

I have gathered the above ideas from all of your advice and it seems to fit my budget.

Go ahead with it and will you report the actual cost and how it shoots when it is completed?
Butch

Butch,
I would love to, but I want to make sure that I have the blessing of at least a few of the senior gunsmiths on here. It is my first, so I don't want to waste money if there is a better way ... which I am sure there is.

I too don't shoot that far.I keep my range at 300 yards or less.I have taken a few animals at a little over 300 yards on ideal conditions but I don't practice any farther.
That being said there are those that regularly shoot at ranges I wouldn't.My cousin was a sniper in Nam and shoots his custom rifles at the distances mentioned but thats all he does.He will only use a 100 yard target to sight in.With all his gadgets like temp gages,wind meters and some things I didn't reconize he has a fortune wrapped up in his gear and will take shots at TARGETS,not animals at those extreme distances.
There is a show on cable that shows someone shooting at extreme distances on animals but they don't show the misses or worse yet,wounded animals and the pain it can cause.
Just meandering thoughts from and old worn out hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
Ok, back to my original post

So what about a 300 wsm built on a:
700 long action mag - $350 (trued)
Carbon Fiber Barrel - $800 (installed)
Tactical Synthetic Stock - $400
Bedding material - $35
Trigger - adjust myself - free

I have gathered the above ideas from all of your advice and it seems to fit my budget.

Sounds pretty good to me, other than the need for the long action, maybe it has to do with the bolt face??? I would think if bolt face is good, go a shorter action, part of the reason for Short Mags....

good luck!

Drop-shot,
I am wanting a gun capable of long shooting, but don't plan on lobbing bullets at animals.

Fish,
The reason for the long action was to create more room for longer COALS for my berger bullets. Is it pretty easy to get the short action to allow more length for the bergers?

And I thought the can I hunt deer with a .223 threads were fun to read!

quote:

So what about a 300WSM built on a:
700 long action mag - $350 (trued)

I did this with my MRC M1999. I figured if I didn't like the WSM, I could rechamber in 300WinMag. Well, it won't feed from the magazine. I have to shoot it single-shot and it doesn't always chamber if I don't slap it in sharply. The MRC is controlled-round feeding. The push-feed Remington may do better. As for rechambering, the WSM has a lower datum diameter of .555 inches; the 300WinMag has a belt and a lower datum diameter about .030 inches less. The 300RUM might be a candidate, but its lower datum diameter is .515 inches. What it boils down to is you'd have to slice off about two inches (or more) of your breech to rethread and rechamber from 300WSM to either of the other long-action magnum cartridges. If you already have a long-action M700, I'd say chamber your barrel in a long-action cartridge...

Thanks Homebrewer. You guys on here are such a huge help. That was my "old" gunsmith that told me to build it on the long action.

With a standard coal of 2.850 for the 300wsm mags, is there an easy way to make a 300wsm fit a longer coal like 2.980?

quote:

With a standard coal of 2.850 for the 300wsm mags, is there an easy way to make a 300wsm fit a longer coal like 2.980?

I assume you want to feed 300WSM in a long action. I suppose it could be done with a blocked magazine box, but the time and expense would be prohibitive. The problem I experience in mine is the round is not captured by the extractor right off the bat, as it lifts out of the magazine, as it would be if I was using a short round in a short action or a long round in a long action. The round kind of flops around and takes on a too-high angle of attack to enter the breech if I don't cycle the bolt quickly and with a bit of a snap to how I work the bolt. The problem is the round has to set so far to the rear, the bolt kicks it around as it moves forward and the rim is sometimes not captured in time to guide the shell into the chamber. I have four years experience with this gun (only shot it maybe 500 times, max), and still I get failures to breech. I have to lock in, then partially extract to see if I got it every time I want to fire. Sometimes I can hear and feel if I got it, sometimes I can't. When I can't and I pull the trigger, it is obvious if I flinched or not. I have learned not to flinch. The gun is heavy at 18 pounds and the Shrewd muzzle brake really helps tame the recoil...

HB,
I was actually asking about the short mag action. I dont know anything about chambering or headspace.

I have not been lucky enough, in the s*&t type of hunting here in sierra's (I say s*&t because of the thick undercover and number of people) to get a shot at game BUT

I'd like to keep my shots under 80yds. I'm lazy, don't like walking real far, lke the idea of dragging things far even less. I'd also like to always find my game uphill of my vehicle or camp, with a nice worn trail, maybe with soft grass so the hide doesn't get messed up when I drag it back.

I hear that For now myself and 2 hunting partners are early thirties and in pretty good shape. We hike way back in, to avoid the masses of people. Once we are in there, long shots sometimes come up due to the big country we are in.